Final 5w4 or 5w6: Enneagram 5 Wings Explained pt.1
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[00:00:00] And I think one thing I always encourage people that are in relationship with a five, whether friendship, you know, coworker, spouse, you name it, is to ask, Hey, where's your battery life right now? You know, especially if the five is needing some space, it helps the other individual to go, oh, you feel like you're at 5%?

[00:00:19] Well, no wonder you're trying to get outta here and withdraw. Or you're asking me to step in to help with the kids, or whatever it is. Actually in itself is really hard for a five, is to ask for help because their needs feel so monumental. And so if a five is asking you for help, please listen and and then step in.

[00:00:38] But how would that feel for you guys? I'm just curious for the listeners, how would that feel if someone were to ask you, Hey, where's your internal battery life right now? How does your energy reserves feel? What. What would that mean to you?[00:01:00] 

[00:01:01] Hey everyone. This is Beth. And I'm Jeff. And this is your INI Graham coach, the podcast, and we're here to help you to understand yourself with astonishing clarity so that you can break free from self condemnation, fear, and shame by knowing and experiencing the unconditional love, forgiveness, and freedom in Christ.

[00:01:19] Well, if you didn't know, guess what? We're on YouTube. So head over there, watch this podcast like and subscribe so you don't miss any of the upcoming, uh, releases that we put on YouTube. Hey, today we're gonna be talking about type five s specifically, we're gonna be talking about their wings, which are the type four and the type six.

[00:01:37] Now, if you're new to the Enneagram and don't know what wings are, head over to episode one 60 where we explain everything you need to know about. But essentially the wings are the two types directly next to your main type. So for the type five, you don't have a seven wing, you don't have a one wing. It's the two numbers next to your main type as a six.

[00:01:56] I have five and seven. Beth's a type nine, so she's got eight and one. [00:02:00] Yep, that's right. So with today's guess, we will be talking about their four and six wing, since they're a type five. , but we want you to remember that they stay their main type with their core motivations, which is the driving force behind why they think, feel, and behave in their particular ways.

[00:02:18] But their wings do try to influence their main type because the wings have their own core motivations, their own way of seeing and interpreting the world, and they're trying to influence the main. To see it their way and to do it their way. And so that's where we internally feel this push and pull, right?

[00:02:37] That's right. We do so because of their constant influence on our lives, both in big and small ways, we're gonna be referring to wings as parts of us that we actually have relationship with. You could read more about that in our new book, more than your number. You should check it out and you can really understand all the various connecting types in your relationship to these parts and how they show up in all of your relationships.

[00:02:57] even your relationship with yourself. Mm-hmm. . So talking about [00:03:00] wings as parts might seem a little strange at first, but the reality is you already communicate in this way. Uh, we often feel pulled in different directions in our thoughts and feelings and behaviors, and that's why we say things like, a part of me wants to do this, or a part of me feels this way.

[00:03:16] Uh, part of me wants to go here, part of me wants to go there. This is how we are inviting you to think about your wings from your Enneagram type. Now your wings bring their own perspectives based upon their core motivations and bring up contradicting thoughts and feelings in us, which can cause us to feel stuck, torn, indecisive, and they can show up in healthy ways where they actually help us.

[00:03:39] Mm-hmm. to accomplish the things that we. I'm gonna be inducing our two type five guests here in a moment. Um, but remember that we will always remain, uh, our main type with the core motivations. And for the type five, it's their four and six wing parts that'll show up to influence the expression of their main type in both positive [00:04:00] and negative ways.

[00:04:01] That's right. But before we introduce our guests, I'd like to just paint a picture of our type fives, which we call the analytical investigators. Now type fives. They're very perceptive, innovative, they're the observers of the world. They're highly curious and they're craving to learn new things. They're objective, practical, and really wanna make wise decisions based on re reason, uh, knowledge and logic.

[00:04:26] And you can count on your type fives to really show up and, uh, solve problems because they've done their research, they've learned and they've analyzed, and they can come to you with the insights that you're really looking and needing. Sometimes I guess we don't always want all the answers, but they're gonna have it, which is really helpful.

[00:04:45] now, type fives can get overwhelmed by emotions, and so you'll see them kind of putting up a, um, kind of a wall that will help them to stay internal into their mind and into their thinking and stay more [00:05:00] logical than in the emotional space. Now type five s really feel that the world is this intrusive, overwhelming place that demands too much of them and they fear that they don't have enough internal resources to be able to go in to do, and that the world's gonna deplete them.

[00:05:17] So they want to pull back to isolate themselves and hold on, or minimize their needs because they fear of losing, uh, control of these resources and basically being. To not having anything. And so you'll see them being very private in finding places that they can recharge. And this comes from the core motivation.

[00:05:39] So their core fear is the fear of being annihilated, invaded, thought incapable or ignorant, having obligations placed on them and having their energy depleted. But they desire to be knowledgeable, capable, and competent, but they struggle with the core weakness of avaris. Now, this is where they feel that they [00:06:00] lack those inner resources and too much interaction with others is going to lead to that catastrophic depletion.

[00:06:06] And so they hold themselves back from interaction with the world so that they don't lose those inner resource. , but their core longing is to hear and experience your needs are not a problem. And so just to kind of paint a picture, cause a lot of times people, um, don't quite understand what we're talking about when we talk about a, when it comes to the Enneagram and Type five s, a great way of thinking about it is that the type Fives are like a cell phone battery.

[00:06:34] All of us are like a cell phone battery, and the extroverts of the world have the Moy case on it. You know, where if your energy is depleted, you just hit it and you just hang out with some extra people and all of a sudden you're like energized, you're ready to go. The introverts of the world, they also will wake up like the extrovert with a hundred percent and they can get depleted.

[00:06:54] But they can kind of plug in later in the day, or they kind of know when that's gonna [00:07:00] happen. And they have enough energy reserves to last them most of the day, at least. Now the fives, they will have plugged in all night, but they wake up with actually 20 to 25% of this interactive battery. , or at least that's how it feels to them.

[00:07:15] And so you can imagine if your phone only had 20 to 25% all day and you don't know when you're gonna be able to plug back in, then you're going to reserve that energy. You're gonna ration it out. You're not gonna just be watching Netflix or live tv. Because that's just gonna deplete it quicker. And if someone were to intrude on your space, grab your phone and start streaming, you are not gonna have anything to do with that.

[00:07:40] You're gonna pull it away and say, Hey, get on your own phone. And so a lot of times people will take that as being cold or not very, um, interactive with. But it's a misunderstanding of the five for the fives. Again, that, um, intrusion that the [00:08:00] obligations placed on them can feel as if they're being depleted to the sense of catastrophic annihilation or depletion.

[00:08:09] and for them, if they lose all of the battery life and it goes to zero and the phone shuts off, it feels as if they'll never be able to turn it on again. And so you can then completely understand like, well, no wonder why you want some privacy or alone, or maybe isolate cuz you're trying to recharge to build up the energy reserves to have more interaction with another person.

[00:08:30] So I think this can help paint a better picture of our type fives to understand where they're coming from instead of assuming on them things that actually might not be real. Well, hey, our two guests today are Sarah Box and Gabrielle d de Paris is. Is that how I pronounce that, Greg? That's Oh, good. Yeah.

[00:08:49] Awesome. Um, who are both certified Enneagram coaches here with us at your Enneagram coach, and so you can find them both through our coaches directory by going to my enneagram coach.com. Uh, Sarah, [00:09:00] welcome. We're glad you're here. Why don't you tell our audience, our listeners, about a little bit about yourself?

[00:09:06] Well, I am. Constant learner given, and I think that fits with what you were just describing. Doesn't really matter what it's, if it, I can be curious about it. I'm curious. Um, love people, love to know about them, but I just, I like to know when that's happening. And I work primarily in the field of nonprofits and so I do a lot of executive coaching, strategic work.

[00:09:32] Not surprising with the five and the four. Um, and the. Which I also love because I like them to be the folks be, will have a impact. So I live in northern Nevada. I get out every day with my dog cuz nobody else wants to walk. Hello. Regeneration time . It's like, so, um, and mostly I just think that we have an opportunity, and I know personally I have, [00:10:00] as I've learned more about myself and my types to be more self compass.

[00:10:04] Um, I laugh a lot more at myself than I did, and then I just do better. Awesome. Well, Sarah, welcome. Gabrielle, welcome. We're glad you're here. You've decided to join us. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? Hi, um, I'm Gabrielle and I'm a top five. I like her. I love learning. I actually a strength finder.

[00:10:29] Mm-hmm. . and my number one is learner . That's awesome. Yes. Um, right. So I like her. I love learning, I love to read anything and everything. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I was just spoke speaking to someone yesterday, um, about my curiosity. Mm-hmm. , I said I get in trouble cuz my curiosity just pushes me and I wanna know. And I do meet some very interesting people that I shouldn't have [00:11:00] hang out with because of what curiosity is, so I get in trouble with That's, that's amazing a lot.

[00:11:06] But, um, I am a same schooling mom of three Uhhuh. Uh, just imagine that four or five as you were describing it, I'm like, yeah, I was just actually, this really went through my mind real quickly. Like, this will be interesting. I have lots of questions. I take a lot of math . Mm-hmm. , right? Yes. Recharging. So, right.

[00:11:29] And um, and I just love people. Like she said, for a long time I thought to myself, um, because I like to take grit mm-hmm. a lot and redraw myself, so I used to think people used to take it wrong, and so then I would question myself. Sure. Do I not love people? Is that not love? Because people will interpret it as not being loving.

[00:11:53] But in reality, I, in order for me to show up as myself, I needed the time away. Yeah. And so [00:12:00] being, learning about the Enneagram and learning about myself and I, it helped me to realize, no, that's who I am. And that's how I give love and take it or leave it. Yeah. This is, this is where I am. So, uh, well, I'm glad that that described you in a way that others hopefully can really understand, you know?

[00:12:21] And I think one thing I always encourage people that are, um, in relationship with a five, whether friendship, you know, coworker, spouse, you name it, is to ask, Hey, where's your battery life right now? You know, you know, especially if the five is needing some space. It helps the other individual to go, oh, you feel like you're at 5%?

[00:12:44] Well, no wonder you're trying to get outta here and withdraw, or you're asking me to step in to help with the kids, or whatever it is, which actually in itself is really hard for a five, is to ask for help because their needs feel so monumental. And so if a five is asking you for help, [00:13:00] please listen and, and then step in.

[00:13:02] Um, but how would that feel for you guys? I'm just curious for the listeners, how would that feel if someone were to ask you, Hey, where's your internal battery life right now? How does your energy reserves feel? What would that, what would that mean to you? For me, it, I'm learning now to pay attention to my body.

[00:13:25] Um, I'm learning now to actually, um, own, but, um, almost like respect my needs because I grew up with a two. Okay. My mother's a two. Yeah. Okay. And so I never knew that I could take a break. She's the battery. That just doesn't die at all. Yes. She's always stopping going. And so I have mastered shutting. my feelings and my own needs.

[00:13:54] Mm-hmm. And so I, if you would say that to me, I wouldn't know what to say. Yeah. I would [00:14:00] just look at you like, what are you talking about? Yeah, I'm fine. And then slowly redraw myself. Yeah. Find a corner or somewhere to hide. Mm-hmm. . So, yeah, that's a great question. I wouldn't know what to say. Not maybe as I work for myself mm-hmm.

[00:14:13] I, I. Would think about it and probably come up with an answer. But yeah, and even for fives, I think this would be a helpful exercise. You know, just learning that internal. like barometer or gage or measurement to tell other people so that they are fully aware. Because especially if you're hanging out with people that, and you're with an extrovert, they're not gonna get it unless you can lay it out more clearly for them and maybe almost in terms of how it feels for them.

[00:14:42] You know, like flip it. And so, hey, when I feel this way is probably equivalent to when you feel you haven't been around someone for like three days. You know, like. Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. But it's the obviously the opposite. Uh, Sarah, what about you? Like, what if you know someone were to ask you that question [00:15:00] today?

[00:15:01] I would be thrilled. I'd be th I'd just say, Hey, thanks. What a gift. But that is not the truth. For most of my professional life, it'd be like, uhoh, what's wrong with me? I'm presenting wrong. I'm not presenting professional. I should have my energy up. Um, but, and actually when someone asks in that way, now I feel really.

[00:15:22] And valued. Even if I'm, no, I just still need to keep on going. I can at least say, you know what? I've got a good 20 minutes left and then piece out. I'm done here. I, I gotta go. And I do say that now in the evenings we'll be doing something and it's early and I go, huh, is it eight o'clock hit? It's like, Martha, go, it's, I said, honey, you got 45 more minutes of me.

[00:15:44] And then I gotta, I gotta go do something right, like by myself or go to bed one or the. , but I don't feel bad about that anymore. It's just because I know it's taken care of me. Um, but it's taken a long time to recognize that and [00:16:00] be able, it's the recognition came sooner. And Gabrielle, I don't know if you can relate to it, it's the expressing it right is the heart is more like, just tough it through Sarah.

[00:16:10] You're capable. You're competent. Right? All those trigger words, it's like, well, there's a double whammy for you. But it feels good when someone asks, you know, do you have time or energy for this? Right. Well, it's common for people to talk about their dominant wing, which is the wing that they most maybe most recognize in their life, and many out there bleed that maybe they only have one wing.

[00:16:34] But, uh, then reality is, is that we use both and just like a bird has two. So does the each Enneagram type mm-hmm. . So we're gonna be talking about both wings today, and we're gonna talk about how they both show up. In healthy and unhealthy ways and how they play a significant role in our lives. Beth, why don't you start off by talking to us about how, uh, particularly the Wing six shows up in healthy ways.

[00:16:57] Okay. Yeah. So the core fear of the [00:17:00] six, just to kind of paint a picture of the sixes, so you guys are more familiar with that, is that the sixes fear being, uh, a. Without support, guidance, security being blamed, targeted, being alone, and definitely physically abandoned, and that you're desiring to have security guidance and support.

[00:17:17] So what you'll notice when the sixth part of your heart comes up as a type five is that you're gonna notice this. Reliability and trustworthiness that comes up also, um, a high mark of responsibility, but sixes are also great troubleshooters, and the se the fives are curious as well. So you combine the curiosity with this troubleshooting six, and they're gonna gain a lot of information to make sure that things go in the way that they need to go.

[00:17:46] Um, the other thing is that six. Really do want to engage with others and to develop this support system so that they feel secure. So you're gonna see, um, a part of them that's much [00:18:00] more relationally engaged. Uh, wanting community now because vibe's in the lead. , it's gonna look a little bit different than if six was in the lead, but you're gonna see this part of the six of the five go, huh?

[00:18:12] You know what? It'll be really good to have a group around me, and this could be a group that is really intrigued with the type five s, um, interests, um, things that they find really fascinating and intriguing, and it will build this kind of community for them to feel a little bit more secure. So that's really what the six is going to bring.

[00:18:32] It will also bring in some loyalty. But not only that, it will bring a lot of laughter because sixes are witty and fun. But what you'll see with the five is that it's kind of, um, eccentric. Like their, their sense of humor is different. Um, it can be almost kind of like that cold sense of humor, um, that they have.

[00:18:52] And so those are some of the fun key aspects that the six might, uh, give to the type five. So I'd love to hear from you guys, [00:19:00] how does the Healthy Six show up for you guys and really benefit. Okay. So when I think about that, um, I'd really like the, I see the six wanting me to have community around me, and I have a tight group, and that has always been, um, present for me in work situations and my, and you know, my one-on-one relationships, but folks who, um, kind of get it, and now that I'm thinking about it, one's a four and one's a six, and the other's a.

[00:19:32] so that that works out well. But, um, I remember facilitating this group one time and this guy's just laughing and I s he said, you are so funny. I said, and I wasn't intending to be funny. I was just make, but someone said something that I thought wasn't, I thought it was ridiculous. Like, why did you even say that?

[00:19:52] So I made some comment and I said, he said, you're just funny. You don't even know it. , but I honestly, I didn't know it and I [00:20:00] realized that you're right, the humor is kind of off. Sometimes the only people who get it are other fives or they go, I, I know what you meant. Um, but Gabrielle, it looks like you're laughing.

[00:20:13] So we probably could talk to each other really well. Um, but I also, that piece about, um, being a quick problem solver and wanting to know how things go. I cannot tell you my knee jerk response when my husband will say, I don't know what's up with my phone. He didn't ask me to help him, right? But I'm thinking, okay, what's it doing and do you need me to fix it?

[00:20:35] Right? He goes, I was just telling you this. I'm going, oh, I thought you needed a problem solver. So, but it's such a knee jerk that I've had to really step back. And I do it with other people too, but because they're not in my house, I modulate a little bit better. But I, it's just a knee jerk. Let's figure it out.

[00:20:54] Mm-hmm. . Well, Sarah, I as a six I and who has a great [00:21:00] relationship with the five part of my heart. Um, I find that I'm quick to want to solve a problem, but the five part of my heart slows me down to understand all of the variables. So that I make sure that I do the right thing. Do you feel like the sixth part of your heart moves from the study or observation to action in your, your life, whether it be your personal or professional life?

[00:21:26] I think it does. I mean, I'm starting to recognize when enough is enough information and what I try to tell myself, Jeff, is like, um, you know what you, if you have 70% of it figured. , the rest will come. Mm-hmm. or someone's gonna be smarter than you, so just start. Um, and you'll get the support that you need.

[00:21:45] But part of that's been like this spiritual faith thing of like, you don't have to figure it out all on your own. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , right? You do have support whether you see it or acknowledge it or not. So that's been a growth area for me. Um, I [00:22:00] don't like being wrong to embarrass myself and if I'm working with a team, I don't like being wrong to embarrass the team.

[00:22:07] but I have realized that's a lot of stress to put on myself or anybody. Right? It's like, we're gonna make mistakes. So I do appre, but I, you know, the gal I work with who's a six, is so organized, um, that now I just check, check with her , like, am I overthinking this? ? Are we good to go? Yeah, sure. Yeah. She's thought of all the things.

[00:22:29] Well, she has, she, it's like, here you go. Mm-hmm. . She goes, no, you're. So it helps, uh, share with us a little bit. How do you see the six party heart showing up? I mean, Gabrielle in health, uh, Gabrielle, I'm sorry. Yeah,

[00:22:43] actually me. I, I believe the humor Yeah. Is, um, awesome because, which, like Sarah said, I. Don't have a lot of people who gets my humor. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And so when I find someone [00:23:00] who, who actually gets it and is cracking up, cuz to me it's hilarious. . That's fun. Yeah. And so when I find someone who actually gets it, it, it's pretty fun.

[00:23:11] So I can be fun and, and, and, and funny at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how I see it show up. Um, also the loyalty. , I get very, very attached to people. Mm-hmm. Uh, more than people understand because I think I confuse people. Cause I need my space. Right. Yet I long to connect. Yet, yet I show up for others.

[00:23:37] Mm-hmm. hard. Um, and, and if I say I'm with you, I'm with you. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so then, I would get surprised a lot of time when I would do something because my five is doing it. Let's just say I, I'm needing space and I'm, you know, I didn't show up to something important because I just couldn't. [00:24:00] Then it would backfire and people would misunderstand it.

[00:24:03] Mm-hmm. and then I would lose relationship and then that would hurt, but then they wouldn't get Why hurt? Because, you know, I didn't show up. Yeah, yeah. You know, kind things like that. So it, I'm still learning to. I love me. Yeah, sure. And the igram helps me give grace to myself and also be better. Explain to others, yeah, this is why this happened.

[00:24:27] This is why I did, because before I couldn't. Tell my friend, um, actually she is say, okay, are you going in hibernation mode now? , that's what she would call it. That's great. And then I would say, yeah, I think I'm gonna hyn it for awesome. Right? How fun. Um, So that's how my sticks will show up. Yeah. Um, pretty much.

[00:24:50] Well, and I can imagine you use a, a lot of the six as well with homeschooling. You know, just the, the responsibility to dete, dependability, uh, that [00:25:00] loyalty mm-hmm. , you know, all the things that kind of come, really can add to the five space. A lot of pivoting, a lot of creative thinking. Mm-hmm. problem solving.

[00:25:08] Mm-hmm. lot. Yeah. That's, that's, yeah, that's great. And, and homeschooling. I'm, I'm, I'm actually in. Um, what's the word to describe it? In my zone. Okay. Yeah. I, I, I love it cuz it feeds both the six and the five and it's just a sweet spot to me. Yeah, that's great. That's great. That's funny, Gabrielle, cuz I realize too, like when I'm doing project design for people and man, all it is, is like, here's their problem, this is what they wanna do with.

[00:25:42] I outline it and then I manage it and, but it, but people don't worry anymore. Right. It's like they've handed up. It's that dependability piece you were talking about. Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you both for sharing about how the six part of your heart shows up. Uh, it, it's a very sweet part of the Type five and many of us [00:26:00] recognize its giftedness and there's also unhealthy characteristics that the Type Six Wing, uh, can bring about.

[00:26:07] now, but one of the things that we need to understand is that these misaligned parts of us actually have positive intent, and they want to help. They wanna protect, they want to keep us from experiencing the pain of what it means to live in a fallen world, but sometimes they're misaligned in showing up how they do that.

[00:26:22] Mm-hmm. . So the wing six can make you struggle with self-doubt, confusion, perhaps leading you to seek guidance and support from people or from books, but do so from an unhealthy. It increases your tendency to remain in your thoughts and ignore emotions and body, and you can become suspicious of others causing you to test their loyalty or to avoid them.

[00:26:44] Your unhealthy six wing is present when you feel increased anxiety and a need to express your in, uh, your insecurity, dissatisfaction, self-doubt or dread. These fears can come out as venting to others or demanding reassurance from. You may be more fidgety [00:27:00] or feel, uh, dread in your stomach or anxiety in your chest.

[00:27:04] So Sarah, let's start with you first again and can you give us an example whenever you see your six wing show up in unhealthy ways? Yes, I can. Um, thankfully it's fewer than it used to be, but a lot of it is I pretty much scan the environment and who I'm interacting with. And if I think someone. Trying to undermine somebody else or myself.

[00:27:30] Um, I just feel myself go into this whole plan A, plan B, plan C, what am I gonna do here to mitigate this? Right? Um, it goes quick. I mean, it's pretty fast. But the other thing I, I realize, and I think it, it is pretty much that, I'm also not sure if it ties to eight or not, but, Once you've crossed that line and you have really been shown untrustworthy or that you would hurt me or those I care about, um, [00:28:00] I go right into my little five.

[00:28:02] Like, you're, I just don't deal with you anymore. I can work with you, but I don't trust you. You are outside of the zone of confidence and trust. Um, and that's not necessarily a good place heart wise to. It is interesting person being honest for you to bring up both six and eight. That can be very protective.

[00:28:20] Sure. Uh, vigilant, uh, particularly if there's gonna be any kind of disruption or, or broken trust, betrayal, that would make it strong. But then also there, it, those, both of those types come with some fierce loyalty. Um, and you can be in or out . Right. Very exactly. . Mm-hmm. . And it's your choice. . Oh, it's your choice.

[00:28:42] That's right. It's your choice. Yep. . That's awesome. Uh, well, no, but what's true, probably I give you the benefit of the doubt and tell, I mean, I'm not cynical in that way. I start Okay. Yeah. Trusting you. I've given no reason, but, um, but it doesn't take long to like, okay, I can count on Jeff [00:29:00] to show up this way, but then if you start going wacko, I will, I'll talk to you about it.

[00:29:04] Sure. But if it's mean spirited and stuff, You go on the second tier. Yeah. . Yeah. Just curious, what does that look like for you? Whenever I've had to, um, tell people, like just draw a clear boundary that maybe something trust has been broken. And what does that look like for you as a type five to communicate a boundary to someone who has lost trust with you?

[00:29:29] Um, it can look really anxiety producing for. Because I don't want to, I just assume like go away and let you deal with your own stuff. Um, but I actually, I had a coach tell me, I should just say what it is, that your boundaries have been breached in whatever way. And I didn't use that quite language, but um, that's really what it comes to, is just saying, it's not okay with me, you know, or we need to change this.[00:30:00] 

[00:30:01] It's uncomfortable, Jeff, I got, I have to tell you it doesn't, I can do it with other people. I'm a good mediator, but I am not a good self advocator cuz I just go from that to being mad. Okay. Because I, the feelings are intense. Right. Okay, gotcha. Overwhelming, I'm sure. Yeah. Gabriel, what about you? And then square words come out so we can go on that cue.

[00:30:23] Uh, Gabrielle, do you cuss? Uh,

[00:30:30] I actually got there and scared myself, so I knew then I had to really put up some strong boundaries. Okay. Yeah. Because it, it was, it was, it was for me, kind of like a thermometer that I've reach that point with that person and I, I'm becoming very ugly and I don't like it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. So yeah, I have gotten there.

[00:30:53] Yeah. Well, how much that be so unhealthy? Six wing show up in your. Huh. [00:31:00] I wrestle with that a lot and a lot of anxiety. Sure. Um, that's, that's, that's for sure. Um, and also sometimes, I don't know if it's the five or the six, but I do, uh, when I call the disappearing act where I disappear. Okay. Yeah. Um, even though I'm with you, Uhhuh , you don't get to see.

[00:31:27] um, I shut down completely and I can smile. I can show up and be nice, but you don't get me mm-hmm. . Um, so, um, and if it's someone that I really feel like I can avoid, you don't see me at all. Yeah. So, um, people, I've had people interpret that as not being forgiven. Mm. But that's not true. Mm. Um, I. because for me, because of the fierce [00:32:00] loyalty and the fierce, I'm with you mm-hmm.

[00:32:02] when, when, when you've crossed that line where it's getting very unhealthy and I'm unhealthy, I, I go on a really, really dark place trying to dissect what happened, what went wrong, what did I do, and my, my six and my five, they're just mm-hmm. , very spinning. I spent pretty much, and, um, So the five needs time to really go and dissect it and figure it out.

[00:32:27] And then the six is chiming in going, okay, they did this and this was why in the worstest scenario, and it's, it, it gets really bad. Mm-hmm. It's a place that I don't like to get to. So, um, I have learned to, I actually was just talking to my therapist about this to embrace the six when it's going there, but I'm going there.

[00:32:52] It, it's again, like Jeff said earlier, it's trying to protect me, right? It's all unprotective mode, but [00:33:00] also to reassure it. Mm-hmm. that you know, it's gonna be okay. So it's a working process for me, but it's a very ugly part of me that I. that scares me sometimes. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. And my opinion, it's interesting cause my mind can take me to places.

[00:33:15] Yeah. I mean, well and really dark places. And that's true for any Enneagram type. Sometimes there are parts of us, whether they're, uh, the, one of the two paths or the connecting types or maybe part of our tri type that we're actually afraid of. They, they can feel overwhelming. other people. Maybe we've, uh, received the messages that other people have observed about us when that part of us shows up, so we carry some shame with it.

[00:33:40] It sounds like maybe other people have said, well, you have an unforgiving spirit and you know what part holds on to this, and you're like, wow. Now I feel guilty over this. But oftentimes you totally miss the heart that this part of you. Really struggling. Mm-hmm. , and you, you misunderstanding, uh, [00:34:00] what this part needs and it's hard to turn towards it to give attention to this part of your heart because there's so much negativity around it.

[00:34:08] Well, you know, I think the, oh, go ahead. Sorry. I actually don't feel guilty when, um, people say that to me. I have also this weird part of me that don't care what people think and don't hear what people say. I hear you and, but I, I'm, me. I know me, you don't get to tell me. Can you guys give kind of me some of that?

[00:34:30] best been looking for that four as a nine. I'm like, ugh. Exhausted by people feeling all, all those things. Yeah. No, I info man. Right? Like we, I need to give you a little bit of my stuff. You give me a little bit of your stuff. Yeah, just call that arrogant. I don't know if you get that a lot, Sarah, but I, that's the part of me that they call arrogant and.

[00:34:52] I, I really don't need your opinion though, because, you know, anyway. Sure. But again, the given [00:35:00] part, yeah. It's kind of like, for me, I interpret that as I'm being misunderstood. Yeah. And if anything, I go into deep depression with that. Like I'm, I'm saddened deeply sad because I thought you'd know me. Mm. I thought you would know that.

[00:35:16] That's not where my head, I thought. For me, I think I'm showing up as loving and as caring and also having a pretty good, um, relationship with the Lord. That's that if you really get to know me, that's the first thing people usually picked up my faith in God, I, you know, so when someone would think that I would over something so small would hold on and not forgave work it, it's kind of like, wow, you really don't know me at all.

[00:35:45] Yeah. Huh. Interesting. I guess I. . So then I go into, I guess I need to work harder and showing up and proving myself. Mm-hmm. , I've, I've learned not to do that anymore cuz it's, people are gonna interpret you the way that they're [00:36:00] gonna Yes. But it's kind of like how I go into, how do I show you that that's not that mm-hmm.

[00:36:07] um, in a way, and then I go, okay, forget it. It's, it is what it is. So I, it shows up. Not as guilt, but more as sadness that, Hmm. Yeah. You don't know me like that. I taught you did. Okay. Mm-hmm. , that's really good to, yeah. To kind of clarify that, you know, sadness. Yeah. That makes total sense. Mm-hmm. . Well, we're so grateful for you both.

[00:36:31] I mean, we, to get into the heart and mind of a five is. A special privilege. So thank you so for showing up with such honesty and vulnerability and giving us an insight into your interior world. So thank you Sarah, and thank you Gabrielle. We really appreciate it. Um, well, if Sarah, if people wanna find out more about what you offer to people and particularly sounds like you do a lot in the nonprofit world, where can they find out more about you?

[00:36:56] They can go to my website, Sarah, well just Sarah [00:37:00] box dot. , um, or if they're following your Enneagram coach, I'm in the coaches network there, which also links back to my page. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And then pretty easy to find. Pretty easy to find. . . That's great. Uh, and then what about you, Gabrielle? Yeah, so I just launched my website, the prospering soul.com.

[00:37:25] so you can find me there. Um, and also yeah, in the coaching network mm-hmm. , um, yeah, so can find me there as well. Yeah. So all our certified coaches, um, that want to be in the directory, they are. And so you guys are there and it's simply going to my enneagram coach.com and just type in Gabrielle or type in Sarah a Sarah box, and that way you guys will see them right away and connect with them there.

[00:37:51] That's. Fantastic. Well, we're so grateful that you've decided to spend some time with us to hear about the world of a type five. And so, hey, if you're, [00:38:00] uh, know somebody who's a type five, or you know, somebody who's in a relationship with a type five, be sure to pass this podcast along to them, uh, to really be a help to them.

[00:38:08] And if you are looking for a personalized Enneagram coach who's gonna help you understand the various wings and how they function in your. As Beth said, head on over to my enneagram coach.com. And for those of you who would also like to become a certified Enneagram coach, be sure to check out our industry leading program@yourenneagramcoach.com.

[00:38:28] Our team is there, uh, waiting to help you to fulfill the dream and, uh, to be an instrument of joy in the life of others, of in self-discovery. And as always, remember that the engram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder because it is the gospel that transform. Thanks again for tuning in and in the next episode we're gonna learn about type six's wings.