Final 5w4 or 5w6: Enneagram 5 Wings Explained pt.2
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[00:00:00] Hey everyone. This is Beth. And I'm Jeff. And this is your Inne Graham coach, the podcast, and we're here to help you to understand yourself with astonishing clarity so that you can break free from self-condemnation, fear, and shame by knowing and experiencing the unconditional love, forgiveness, and freedom in Christ.

[00:00:18] Well, if you didn't know, guess what? We're on YouTube. So head over there, watch this podcast like and subscribe so you don't miss any of the upcoming, uh, releases that we put on YouTube. Hey, today we're gonna be talking about type five s specifically, we're gonna be talking about their wings, which are the type four and the type six.

[00:00:36] Now, if you're new to the Enneagram and don't know what wings are, head over to episode one 60 where we explain everything you need to know about. But essentially the wings are the two types directly next to your main type. So for the type five, you don't have a seven wing, you don't have a one wing. It's the two numbers next to your main type as a six.

[00:00:55] I have five and seven. Beth's a type nine, so she's got eight and one. Yep, that's right. [00:01:00] So with today's guess, we will be talking about their four and six wing, since they're a type five. , but we want you to remember that they stay their main type with their core motivations, which is the driving force behind why they think, feel, and behave in their particular ways.

[00:01:17] But their wings do try to influence their main type because the wings have their own core motivations, their own way of seeing and interpreting the world, and they're trying to influence the main. to see it their way and to do it their way. And so that's where we internally feel this push and pull, right?

[00:01:36] That's right. We do so because of their constant influence on our lives, both in big and small ways, we're gonna be referring to wings as parts of us that we actually have relationship with. You could read more about that in our new book, more than your number. You should check it out and you can really understand all the various connecting types in your relationship to these parts and how they show up in all of your relationships, even your relationship with yourself.

[00:01:58] Okay, so let's take [00:02:00] a look at Wing four and we'll dive into the Healthy. Do you wanna read this one? Sure. What I'm, I'm laughing only because the other day you were saying Why am I always reading the unhealthy parts ? So I'm like, here have the opportunity to do the healthy. Sure, sure. Because nines are always positive and sixes are always realistic.

[00:02:20] Right. That's. So we bring in reality. Yes. Let's be honest. And now, and A you get to speak the positive. No, you speak the positive because you have the positive gift. Oh, now it's okay. That's right. That's right. . Okay. Okay. So wing four, uh, and how Wing four s will show up for the type five is that not only.

[00:02:43] Are the fives logical, but now they're gonna bring in this part of emotion, which can be really hard for type five s to access sometimes, cuz it can feel very overwhelming. But we all need emotions. And so the four can really give this [00:03:00] benefit to the five of tapping into emotions. But just to kind of understand the four, let's look at their motivation.

[00:03:07] So the core fear of the four. Is to be inadequate, emotionally cut off, plain or mundane. They also fear being defective, flawed, or insignificant. And really what they're desiring is to be unique, uh, special and their most authentic self. So being really true to who they are and how God created them to be.

[00:03:28] Now, the type Fours in a healthy way are gonna bring in this creativity, expressiveness, emotionality. They're gonna be more self-focused and go deep within and deep with their relationships. And actually, this is really where. Thrive when they are in relationships with people. They don't want, um, just the off the cuff conversations or how's the weather that drives them nuts.

[00:03:54] And so this four part of their heart cannot only help the five to go deep. Maybe [00:04:00] logically, but also to go deep emotionally and to be very innovative and transforming the average things of life to something really valuable, maybe redemptive and reflecting on really their creativeness that goes deep inside.

[00:04:16] So I would love to hear from you guys. Um, Gabrielle, let's start with you. How does the four part of your heart really balance the intellect with your emotional world? I think. So for long time, I, I, I had a hard time understanding the foresight of me as I, as I get to know the Enneagram. So it's funny you mentioned the emotion part, so I, that's where I wrestle.

[00:04:43] Um, so I, I, huh. I tend to not wanna express so much emotion mm-hmm. , and that has to do with past trauma. Sure. And deep my upbringing. So I don't yet [00:05:00] show up. I don't see the four show up emotionally. Yeah. That, that's I guess, things that I need to work on. However, I do see it in creativity. Okay. Um, yeah. I, I, and the way that I design my space mm-hmm.

[00:05:15] and the way that I, I, I put a lot of thought into it and I put a lot of uniqueness into it. Little pieces. Yes. I can, I don't, I, I'm not one of those that would go to a store and just. Because I saw it in a magazine. Mm-hmm. Because then it wouldn't speak me. Yep. So then I have to carefully choose each piece and put it exactly how, and then eventually, and it's a masterpiece.

[00:05:39] I don't do it all at once. I take my time. Mm-hmm. Cuz it has to speak me, it has to speak my home, what I'm going for, what I'm all about. Mm-hmm. . And when you come, you'll see it. Yeah. So I take my time. So in creativity I also sew. So when I'm sewing a, a piece or, um, Curtain something. I, I'm very thoughtful [00:06:00] with the fabric.

[00:06:00] I'm very thoughtful with the colors. Mm-hmm. and how is gonna, so right now I'm working on curtains for my living room. I'm also thinking, okay, what pillow would go with it? Yes. And what that, so I see it show up when it comes to creativity. Howler, I'm not crafty as far as, you know, art stuff for my kids.

[00:06:18] Okay. I don't know. , my daughter does that. I'm, I'm challenged in that area, but, The netting, the, well, I don't knit the crocheting and the, you know, sewing because I grew up in it that comes out and also home. Mm-hmm. , anything, home decor, you know, picking up the pieces. I see it show up. Yeah. So I appreciate that side of me and the, for.

[00:06:41] But I'm working on the No. Well, uh, so Gabrielle, one of the things that we've, uh, talked with people on the podcast about wings is that sometimes there's parts of us that are family of origin honors, and there's part of us that, that it's not welcome. So you lived with a two mom, [00:07:00] uh, who probably did demonstrate a lot of various emotions.

[00:07:04] Um, what was. The emotional part was, was the emotional part of your heart a liability in growing up in your family of origin? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. My mother perfectionist. Okay. Also, I, I think she's a two, three or three. Two. I cannot decide that yet. Okay. And I haven't tapped her, so I don't know yet.

[00:07:27] Yeah. But, um, he, everything rides on performance. Mm. Your feelings aside, could care less about your feeling. What's the end result? Yeah. That's my mom and that's an a lot of things. So by the time I was nine Okay. I had to, um, I had already learned how to handle her household. I, okay. Um, okay. And I had to be top of my class at all times.

[00:07:56] Yeah. And also learn how to sew, learn how to, [00:08:00] you know, decorate, learn how to. I mean the whole thing. Mm-hmm. and grades was of the utmost importance. And so as of, and books, because I read a lot, books were like a big no-no for her. Kind of like, I'm always in a book, so that's a problem. Um, and so I've learned to not to hide me Yeah.

[00:08:23] And just perform. Yep, sure. Just to get through. Yeah. And so I guess that's why I'm challenged when it comes to emotion. doesn't matter. And, and, and also the culture. Um, and my culture, of course, you get spank, okay? And as a child, when you're spank and you cry, you're told not to cry. Yeah. So, yes. And, and so I, I can see why in the foresight I'm very challenging when it comes to emotions.

[00:08:47] I'm, I've done a lot of work on myself to be able to even express, you know, Who I am and be able to talk to people and share my story. That, that, that's because I've done a lot of [00:09:00] work. Yeah. But before you, you just, you're silent. Yeah. Well, it reminds me, so I was just telling you guys right before this, I was taking, um, a class on the subtypes of type five, and they showed, um, a clip from.

[00:09:15] Shadowlands with CS Lewis. And what was interesting is he fell in love with Joy before he knew. He fell in love with joy, and it was when she was in the hospital that he realized, you know what he actually was feeling towards her. And so he said, well, And he, he proposed without proposing. It was more just a logical statement.

[00:09:38] And she's like, you know, from where I'm from, usually these things come with a proposal. And he was kind of like, did I not do that? And she's like, I don't think I heard it. . And what he, but what he was saying was he, He didn't even realize to the point that his, where he was really at emotionally until really her cancer [00:10:00] showed up and then it really came forth.

[00:10:03] And does that kind of resonate? You know, like, you know, you have the emotions somewhere, but especially because well being a five, but also growing up the way you grew up, you had to push those down and it's hard to access them as easily as maybe some of the other types on the igram. Does that feel. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:10:21] Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And so you're saying this and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, yes, I do this often. I would think it, I would feel it and I would think that I expressed it. Uhhuh , you're right. But, and be, which is what I was saying earlier, like people would receive it different than how I wanna. Give it to you. And so then I would, you know, again, I struggle with relationship because of family because it's like, that's not what I meant, really.

[00:10:47] This is where my heart is. Yeah, sure. And then I would get hurt because it's kind of like, you don't know me. Yeah. because which which is a very fourish thing. You don't understand me. Yeah. You know, so it's a little bit of fourish there. Yeah. Well, [00:11:00] yeah. So for those of you that wanna kind of take a sneak peek into a type five s world, Shadowlands with CS Lewis is a really good one.

[00:11:08] So Sarah, what about you? What about the four and how it shows up in your world? Well, as Beatrice, um, Beatrice, as Gabrielle was talking, I was thinking about how it has ebbed and flowed in my. You know, like it was really a lot more present as a kid just because it was encouraged, you know, for me to show up that way in writing or expressions.

[00:11:31] Um, it wasn't discouraged overtly as I got older, but as I started working, it was like, okay, now I've gotta be this different show up differently, not bring my emotions. And you know, working was more of, this is the process. We're not asking you to create something new, just do the work. Which was secure. It felt good.

[00:11:53] But what really stands out to me is even now with like I'm unpacking all the corporate [00:12:00] years and the work years, is that when someone says, well, how do you feel? I tend to respond by saying, well, let me think about it. Right? It's like, well, wait a minute. That's really, I don't need to think about my feelings, but I will say that there are moments when just out of the blue.

[00:12:17] Like this overwhelming feeling. I told my husband we were driving, I said, Hey, I gotta tell you something, thought it was serious. And I said, you are so kind. And he goes, what is going on? Right? And I, I had to get out, you know, I can thought there was, I was gonna give him bad news or something, I don't know.

[00:12:35] But, um, But I just real, I just got overwhelmed with this in huge kindness that he's been do delivering for like six months solid as everybody else has been, just trying to navigate losses and stuff. But that like, I was aware of it, but it just hit my heart in a way that I went. How great is that? You know, I need to focus on something else.

[00:12:58] It's, it's a lot, [00:13:00] it is interesting and it does show up. You, you highlight something about spouses too, that even family members who when will surprise, uh, others whenever certain parts of us show up and even whenever a simple act of kind, I was like, wait a minute, hold on. You, you never talked to me this way,

[00:13:17] What, what, what's going on here? , . So even our, our spouse, what do I know, have relationships to these parts of us. Right? Yes. And can be surprised by them and learn something really new. Mm-hmm. about. Well, yeah. This has always been a part of me. I'm just not as vocal about it. Mm. Right. And. . And so it's, that's kind of interesting to me.

[00:13:37] And I start to feel that more and more in a lot of different situations, just being more connected to the emotional part. Yeah. Um, and it shows up also in the teamwork, in just being willing to be more creative with things and not, and just see how things come together with not even needing to know if it's ever actually ever gonna come together.

[00:13:55] Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Right. So I just play with this and see what happens here. Um, and [00:14:00] that can. Really fun to get surprised by something that exceeds. Yeah. It's that create, so when you're talking Gabrielle about like, you'll find the perfect piece and I'm thinking Uhhuh . No, that's too detailed for me. However, however, um, it's that sense of play that goes with that.

[00:14:22] Yeah. Like the curiosity, like what would be good here, what might be good there. I think I do that with relationships more than object. , like who would it be fun to connect and have a conversation with? Um, and what might we create on behalf of that person? Mm-hmm. , um, that's just fun and different. Sure.

[00:14:44] Mm-hmm. . Well, um, why don't we go ahead and dive into some of the unhealthy characteristics of the four part of our hearts. But remember, it does have positive intent, um, but for your fore wing, it can cause you to hold things at harm's length due to the mood, to [00:15:00] potential moodiness or self-doubt in your ability to do something competently.

[00:15:04] You will be more inclined to ignore the real world and dive deep into your imagination, emotions, creativity, and intellectual pursuits. Uh, type fives often feel misunderstood by others because they interact with the world differently and need a lot of alone time. And because of this, it can be challenging for them to recognize when they're unhealthy.

[00:15:25] Four wing is showing present because it, it feels so misunderstood. So to recognize your fore wing, you want to pay attention to feelings of envy or feelings, so different from others that you believe that you're exempt from following social rules, which you may mean giving yourself permission to detach and be self-absorbed with your unique interest.

[00:15:45] Now, uh, let's go ahead and start with Gabrielle again. So do you see at times how the unhealthiness of your four wing shows up? You, you, you hit on something very key there. . [00:16:00] Yes, I do see that a lot. Mm-hmm. . Um, so you mentioned envy and that's one thing I never thought I struggle with. Sure. I don't, you know, I, I feel I'm so unique that, um, anything of me or anything about me is, is precious and deep and so, I don't see it comparable to other people.

[00:16:29] Mm-hmm. . Okay. So I, I never thought envy would show up to me, but as, as I was ending my relationship and, you know, losing a lot of my circles and losing a lot of things. A friend of mine from high school, we grew up with the church, we did traveling together. . I was standing in her home and she was celebrating a milestone with her husband and new home, and [00:17:00] we had just gotten a new home and stuff, and something hit me and it was surprising.

[00:17:06] It was more like I felt, I felt that I wa I, I celebrate her milestone and I celebrate this for her. I, I love her and I'm happy for. But yet I couldn't get it. Then it was like this sadness of we could have been there like, you know, that could have been us too. Sure. And, and I could, again, being a five, being overwhelmed by it and surprised by it, I kind of go, oh my God, so good to see you, but I gotta go now

[00:17:41] So I laughed and I got home and I was. That was interesting. I hope she didn't see that. And then I'm like, did she see that? I hope she doesn't think that, you know, I'm, you know, I, I, I, I, you know, I, I'm not happy for her cuz I am mm-hmm. , you know, and, and [00:18:00] then I'm like, what is this in my heart? Oh my goodness.

[00:18:03] So it, it, it took me by surprise and I, again, not knowing and. Having the, the skills, I guess I stuffed it. Sure. I stuffed it and didn't revisit it. When he tries to come back up, I stuff it and then I, I took it to the Lord talking about, was that jealousy? Mm-hmm. . I'm not a jealous type. So what is that? And I couldn't put it together until you said envy.

[00:18:30] I'm like, What it was . Sure. Well, and that's why, you know, the igram can't be so powerful is it gives us language to things that we're not always aware that are happening, and then we can use that information the next time to not beat ourselves up, but to invite grace and compassion and, uh, truth to then really free us.

[00:18:51] Sarah, what about you? How is four? How does it show up? You know, sometimes in your life in a negative or unhealthy way, it will show. [00:19:00] When I like my envy would be around like other people's ease. It's like, how is that so simple and easy for you to do that, you know, um, or express yourself and just be out there and, and be confident in that.

[00:19:14] Um, and the other piece where it will is if I'm am overwhelmed from that, I can feel hurt like Gabrielle said. Um, but I will, but I feel the shutdown. You know, the kind of like, I'm moving away from you. I'll just go do my thing and move away. And, but it's not an envy, like I want what you have. It's more I want to be in the space you're in.

[00:19:42] Like the ease of the space or the freedom of it. And, um, and assuming that I couldn't do that, you know, it's like, which is not true, hence, years have proven that it is true. But at the moment it's just, it can be, feel. Um, [00:20:00] but I do watch it come up. I can see it like when it's starting to come up and especially when we were going through a pretty tough time the last year and a half of caring for a family member who was really declining and ill, um, I just kept thinking, we've made all these plans, my husband and I to do this and these things, they're all backburnered now.

[00:20:20] I, you know, and I'm thinking, how come no one else is helping to lift this load? You know, I wish we could be doing, , and yet at the same time I'm thinking, would I really do that? No, I wouldn't do that. It was more of a mental thing. I see. Mm-hmm. , so I don't know if that answers directly.

[00:20:41] Yeah. I don't know if that answers directly, Beth. No, I mean I think, you know, and that's why we love talking to the types and interviewing the types because it's going to express itself in its unique way according to how you function in the world, you know? And the four may show up a lot in some type fives [00:21:00] and very little in others.

[00:21:01] And so just hearing your experience is great. You know? That's exactly, you know, what we were wanting to. . Well, we're so grateful for you both. I mean, we, to get into the heart and mind of a five is a special privilege. So thank you so for showing up with such honesty and vulnerability and giving us an insight into your interior world.

[00:21:21] So thank you Sarah, and thank you Gabrielle. We really appreciate it. Um, well, if Sarah, if people wanna find out more about what you offer to people, and particularly sounds like you do a lot in the non-profit world, where can they find out more about? They can go to my website, Sarah. Sarah, well, just sarah box.com.

[00:21:39] Um, or if they're following your Enneagram coach, I'm in the coach's network there, which also links back to my page. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And then pretty easy to find. Pretty easy to find. . . That's great. Uh, and then what about you, Gabrielle? Yeah, so I just launched my website, the [00:22:00] prospering soul.com.

[00:22:01] Brilliant. so you can find me there. Um, and also, yeah, in the coaching network. Mm-hmm. . You find me there as well? Yeah. So all our certified coaches, um, that want to be in the directory, they are. And so you guys are there and it's simply going to my enneagram coach.com and just type in Gabrielle or type in Sarah a Sarah box, and that way you guys will see them right away and connect with them there.

[00:22:30] That's. Fantastic. Well, we're so grateful that you've decided to spend some time with us to hear about the world of a type five. And so, hey, if you're, uh, know somebody who's a type five, or you know, somebody who's in a relationship with a type five, be sure to pass this podcast along to them, uh, to really be a help to them.

[00:22:47] And if you are looking for a personalized Enneagram coach who's gonna help you understand the various wings and how they function in your. As Beth said, head on over to my enneagram coach.com. And for those of you who would also like to [00:23:00] become a certified Enneagram coach, be sure to check out our industry leading program@yourenneagramcoach.com.

[00:23:06] Our team is there, uh, waiting to help you to fulfill the dream and, uh, to be an instrument of joy in the life of others, of in self-discovery. And as always, remember that the engram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder because it is the gospel that transform. Thanks again for tuning in and in the next episode we're gonna learn about type six's wings.