Ep. 166 Type 6 Wings pt.1
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[00:00:00] We got on the highway and I was quiet for about, uh, two miles maybe. Yeah, maybe two miles, not even five minutes. And she says, what, what have you been thinking? Yeah, I was just curious. Like, you know, because you know you're a six and I'm, the reason why I asked the question is cuz I literally wasn't thinking anything like my brain.

[00:00:22] Just, I don't even know what that would be like. I imagine, yeah. What? Yeah, that just rings true to me. Like I was looking, you know, at the scenery, but I was really kind of checked out and all the nines out there, totally understand what I'm saying. No one else will understand maybe. But I asked him, I'm like, so what were you thinking?

[00:00:38] Literally for like five minutes, he just went and went and went and told me all these things and she got upset with me that I shared it all with him. I so overwhelmed. I was like, how is it even possible that, okay, I got something wrong, thought of this much stuff. And then I kind of felt bad for him cuz I was like, Ooh, [00:01:00] right.

[00:01:01] Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, can you just like turn it off? You know?

[00:01:14] Hey everyone, this is Beth. And I'm Jeff. And this is your IA Graham coach, the podcast. And we're here to help you to understand yourself with astonishing clarity so that you can break free from self condemnation, fear, and shame by knowing and experiencing the unconditional love, forgiveness, and freedom and Christ.

[00:01:32] Well, if you didn't know, we're also on YouTube, so go watch the podcast there, like and subscribe so you don't miss any of the upcoming content that we release. Well, today we're gonna be talking about type sixes, and so being a type six, this is gonna be very interesting, uh, talking about myself, but our wings are five and seven.

[00:01:50] Now, if you don't much know much about wings and you're maybe new to the Enneagram, be sure to head over to episode one 60 where we explain Enneagram W Wings in more [00:02:00] detail. Essentially, wings are the two types directly next to your main type. So if you're a six, you're not gonna have a two wing or a four wing.

[00:02:08] Uh, you have a type five and a type seven wing. Now for Beth here, she's a type nine, so she's got an eight and a one wing. Yep. So we get to talk about the type sixes today, but. In their wings. But what we wanna remember is that they remain their main type, which is the driving force behind why they think, feel, and behave according to their core motivations.

[00:02:31] So their core fear, desire, weakness, and longing. And their core motivations are their perspective of life and then how they interpret what they see and react to it. Um, and so we wanna take a look at those as well. What we also wanna realize is that your wings have their own core motivations and they're trying to influence your main type based on how they see interpret the world.

[00:02:59] And so it's [00:03:00] really important for us to understand these core motivations of the types we're connected to so we can see how and when they're trying to influence us. Well, because of the relationship that we have on with our wings, as well as the influence that they play in our lives. We're gonna be referring to wings as parts of us, which we discuss more in our new book, more Than Your Number.

[00:03:19] Be sure to check it, check that out, because we're gonna give you a full understanding of how eip P or Enneagram internal profile and specifically wings, how they function for us. Uh, talking about your wings as parts may actually seem a little strange at first. But the reality is, is that we already speak this way, and we're gonna illustrate that in our conversations today.

[00:03:39] Because we often will say to others, I, I, well maybe I do, I wanna do this, but I also want to do this, or I feel this way, or, mm-hmm. And then I feel something competing inside me. And sometimes those are actually wings showing up in your life. Mm-hmm. Uh, wings bring their own perspectives based on their core motivations, and bring up at times contradicting thoughts and feelings, which can cause [00:04:00] us to feel stuck, torn, or indecisive.

[00:04:02] Mm-hmm. And they can be enhancing to our life relationally as well as living out our calling. So we're gonna be introducing our guest here in a few moments, but always keep this in mind that we will always remain our main. With the core motivations of a main, our main type, as well as experiencing the influence of our various wings.

[00:04:22] And for the six, that's gonna be type five and type seven. Yeah. So before we dive into hearing from our guests, let me just paint a picture of the type six. So you're really familiar with them now. They're the faithful guardians. They're so reliable, hardworking, dutiful, and they're steady people now. They have a great sense of humor, so I'm sure we're gonna have a fun time today.

[00:04:41] Um, but they are the ones that foresee all the possible problems. They're fiercely loyal, committed to making sure everything goes the way it needs to go to ensure safety and security for everyone they're committed to. And type sixes may. Appear calm at times on the outside, but they have this internal committee [00:05:00] that is constantly chiming in with contradictory thoughts of all the various possibilities, especially worst case scenarios.

[00:05:07] And so what happens with that is they can be plagued with this internal fear, indecisiveness, catastrophic thinking, and a lot of self-doubt for them. Turns up as anxiety. Again, whether you see it or you don't see it, it's running in the background of their mind. And so they're gonna look outside of themselves for sources that they can trust to help them to make the decisions that feel safe and accurate for them.

[00:05:33] So the core motivations for the six is the core fear of being without support, guidance, and security to fear. Fear itself, to be blamed, targeted alone and physically abandoned. But their core desire is to have security, guidance and support, but they struggle with the core weakness of anxiety. And this is where they're scanning the horizon, trying to predict and prevent negative outcomes, especially worst case scenarios.

[00:05:59] And so [00:06:00] you're gonna see that they're constantly remaining in this kind of state of apprehension and worry. Now their core longing is to hear an experience. You are safe and secure. Well, our guests today are Kara and Adam. Uh, so thankful that you've decided to join us today. Kara, tell us a little bit about yourself.

[00:06:18] Sure. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. This is a lot of fun. Um, so I am a certified Enneagram coach, so that has been a fun adventure with you guys, um, as of last summer. So I went through the course, um, with Adam as one of the great instructors of that course. So that's been just a delight. Um, but yeah, my background was, I was a missionary kid.

[00:06:39] Um, my background is then in social work and I started discovering that Enneagram, I would say about six years ago. And at the time I actually thought I was a two. I had taken an assessment and I was thinking I was a two with a three wing, and it was through meeting with a coach myself. Um, and just really digging deep.

[00:06:58] I started to just really [00:07:00] resonate with that core motivation of the six. And it was actually the coach who said, why don't you explore the six? Like I hear a lot of the two in you, and that could be a part of you. She was very gentle and just encouraged me to, um, explore it. And at first I, there's, I can't be a six.

[00:07:16] I really struggled with seeing myself as in the head triad cuz I viewed myself as more emotional. So I put myself into that feeling triad. Um, but as I started using it just for growth and just really digging deep, I took some courses about the Enneagram before I decided to become a coach and started to explore my subtype and then my wings.

[00:07:39] It really started to solidify the six part. I really resonated, um, the core motivations of just feeling that safe and security, but I was struggling with some of the other parts. Um, and then learning about myself as a self-preservation six and hearing the words of warmth and friendly and just people and alliances that it just [00:08:00] kind of hit the nail on the head.

[00:08:01] And then as I started learning about wings and really exploring the five and the seven, the seven, I saw that showing up. You know, people would often say, I feel that kinda energy from you. So yeah, it's been a joy now to use what I've learned in my own life as a mom, a mom of three teenagers and a wife on how it's helped myself in my marriage now as a coach to be sharing that with others.

[00:08:27] It's been a huge strike. No, Karen, do you resonate with this thought that, um, particularly within, uh, Christianity here in the States, that for a female, that it, it's almost like there's a, a sense to where to be a godly woman is to be a female too. Do you resonate with that? I do. I do. I, so my background, I just touched on it, was I was an mk, which stands for Missionary Kid.

[00:08:50] Mm-hmm. So I was born in Congo, Africa and lived there until I was 12. So I was right in the throes of, um, of a lot of what you're [00:09:00] saying. So I think that desire for, you know, as a woman to be that nurturer and, um, service and love and care and sacrificial love were absolutely things that rang true, um, for me.

[00:09:12] So I, I do resonate with that. I've seen that. So you bring up another dynamic here. Do you feel American? I do now. Ese, yeah. Oh, you do now? I do. Yeah. My formative years were all on the mission field until I was about 12. So of course we would come, you know, to the states here and there. Um, but um, for sure those early memories were all there.

[00:09:37] We were in the really remote area, so it was just rainforests, no infrastructure for roads. Um, and then when I was nine, I went to boarding school. Okay. And you can imagine as a type six, not knowing I was a type six. Right. All of that that I've now been processing through the lens of a six of how that felt to be a little girl just, um, pulled away from my safe person who [00:10:00] was my mom at the time, and mm-hmm.

[00:10:02] Put in a situation that felt theory and felt like, who was that person? You know, like the rod just kind of got taken out from under me. Sure. Wow. Well look back on those years. It's for sure. A mixture. It's beautiful. Yeah. It's got a lot of pain in the story as well. Okay. Um, when I think about those years at boarding school and just some of the experiences that happened to me there beyond the lens in which as a six, I look back on that and those feelings of abandonment and just, um, struggling to find who's, who can I trust?

[00:10:33] You know? Yeah. Who maybe that's the person for me. Well, and you know, I. A self-preservation six female can definitely easily mistype themselves as a two, because sixes in the head triad are very emotional. They're actually an emotional reactive triad. And so the emotions are gonna come up, though they're really in the head, right?

[00:10:55] Mm-hmm. They have a lot of emotions. And then of course, like you were saying, just being in that Christian [00:11:00] sphere needing to serve and to help and to give totally makes sense why two felt at first more true for you, but I'm really, you know, happy and glad that you had a coach that would gently walk you through the process.

[00:11:12] You know, I mean, for Jeff, he, he's not self-preservation. Um, he's more on the one-to-one six, which he thought he was an eight and he had someone also say, you're not an. Um, it was a little bit more abrupt for you. It's a little bit harder to Yeah. I set aside the Enneagram for a year. For a year. Uh, cuz I was so frustrated with it.

[00:11:33] Yeah. You got stupid thing. Kind of skeptical. Yes. Why hate, why? Don't get into my stuff. Well, we are, but oh, we are. Let's first, Adam, tell us a little bit about yourself, Adam. Breckenridge. All I really want to do is get into Jeff's stuff now. That's, that's the only thing that I wanna do. Jeff, I've got a question.

[00:11:51] How old were you the first time? No, we're not gonna do that. Um, so I was really about to go there with you, Adam. I know you would. You [00:12:00] we ride or die, man. We ride or die together. Yes. Um, so yeah, thanks for, for having me on. It's always, uh, one of my favorite things to do. Spend time with you and with our, our listeners, uh, and viewers on the podcast.

[00:12:13] So my name's Adam. Uh, serve as the director of coaching with your engram coach, which means I get to do what I love. I get to work with men and women who, um, are building their coaching practices, changing the world through their coaching practices, and men and women who aspire to become coaches. And I love doing that because that's my story.

[00:12:32] It was, um, you know, I've got a wife and three daughters and we were kind of drowning, uh, in 2015 going through the ministry burnout stuff and a lot of hurt. And, um, I met an engram coach, which I didn't know what the engram was. Um, he, uh, he wanted to work with me, wanted to work with my wife, Carrie, and, and made us take this assessment.

[00:12:55] You know, Jeff, you were talking about your skepticism toward the engram and I'm, I'm gonna put this thing [00:13:00] aside. I kind of came into it that way. Uh, looking at this as very skeptical. What is this? A lot of questions. Is this a safe tool? And, and, um, my coach just invited me to trust him. Um, and, and I said, okay, I'll, I'll trust you and I'll do this.

[00:13:16] And so when I read my report and then he walked through the report with me, it was one of those things where, um, the proof's in the pudding here, like this is, I mean the, I I, I've said this probably on this podcast before, but the only way I know how to say it is it felt like I was inside of Psalm 1 39 where, uh, I believe it's David is saying, um, I felt like God was searching me and knowing me, and it was a really vulnerable journey.

[00:13:44] It was like simultaneously. I felt so alive because that's all that the heart really wants, is to be seen and known and loved. So it was like beautiful, like I felt so seen, so understood. It was also the scariest thing cuz I felt so seen, so understood. So, [00:14:00] um, you know, but it was one of those things where, uh, we couldn't deny the, what the Lord was showing us through the tool.

[00:14:07] So we sat, Carrie and I sat with the tool for about a year, just using it with ourselves, using it in our marriage. Uh, starting to use it with our, how we, uh, show up in our parenting. And then it was one of those things where we were like, I've, like, I've gotta coach people with this. I've gotta, I've gotta, like serve other people with this tool.

[00:14:25] Um, so I started coaching, uh, Beth, you know, you, Jeff and I met and, and developed a friendship and I immediately became a huge fan of your Ingram coach and devoured all your social content. I, I probably harassed you in those days, honestly, early on. Um, I might have been like stalker, uh, level. I'm not, I'm not totally sure, but, uh, it worked.

[00:14:47] Few were how stalking us, Adam, we wouldn't have known because you had done so secretively, so. That's right. That's true. Um, that's true. Um, so that's a little bit about me and I, uh, been been working with the Engram [00:15:00] now since, since 2015 and, uh, and, and loving it and love what I get. Yeah. Well thanks so much for both of you for joining us today to share with us a little bit about what it's like being a six with these things called wings.

[00:15:16] Now it's very popular common for people to talk about wings as they're one of, we have one wing with a, uh, dominant wing. Now for our presentation today, we're actually gonna be talking about both wings and how they show up in, in our lives, both in healthy and unhealthy ways. And just like a bird that has two wings.

[00:15:33] So do we. And so we're gonna start off with the Type five Wing. Uh, I call him this type five part of my heart. I call him Bob. Uh, Bob was a very influential mentor in my life and, uh, had a lot of great influence. But we're gonna talk about what it looks like for the five wing when it shows up in healthy ways.

[00:15:52] So the type five's core motivations are one, is core fierce to being annihilated, invaded. Thought incapable. [00:16:00] Thought incapable or ignorant, having obligations placed on them or having their energy depleted. Their core desire is to be knowledgeable, capable, and competent people. Now, you'll notice this part of the type six, because it's observant, wise, curious, analytical, intellectual, insightful, emotionally distant, and independent.

[00:16:18] It feels it needs more knowledge to move forward competently. Therefore, it'll withdraw to gain the information it needs to help you feel guided and secure as you courageously engage in life circumstances. Now, your five wing also helps you to courageously engage. Engage with life's uncertainties. Uh, knowing that you are highly resourceful and prepared.

[00:16:39] You support the disadvantage with your insights and information and generously give others the wisdom and knowledge you have gathered over time. You're also able to intellectually pull apart things and then conceptualize new ways to put them back together. Yeah. So let's start with you, Cara. First, how do you see the five part of your heart showing up in your life?

[00:16:59] [00:17:00] Yeah, yeah. I'm glad you asked. You know, I see it in the first kind of heck of my life. I'm 42 now, so, uh, my kids are getting older, so I'm seeing the five more. I think the seven was more of an obvious, um, thing for me, but I'm seeing how, and I've heard that to be true, right? That kind of you start to lean on another wing as as, as we age and whatnot and grow.

[00:17:24] Um, so I'm starting to see that vibe showing up. I see little glimpses of it, of my little, little six self. I think it als, you know, I have a strong desire to care for those less fortunate, which is a huge just six part that caring for the underdog. But I see that as part of the five in me. But a few ways I see, um, the five showing up is one.

[00:17:46] Um, I do love to learn. I wouldn't consider myself like an academic or an intellectual, like I might see some of my five friends. But I do love to deep dive and I really saw that showing up actually with the Enneagram. Uh, my background is [00:18:00] social work. I have a degree in social work and a minor in psychology.

[00:18:03] So people and learning, like those things always just capture my interest. But when I learned at the Enneagram five years ago and then really started just exploring it, I just kind of could not get enough. You know, it was just podcast books, everything, just really researching. Um, and I see how now as a coach, how all that research and just.

[00:18:26] You know, the stuff that I have in my brain that I'm wouldn't have normally thought of myself as that type of person, that I'm able to pull that out, right and, and rely on that. It helps me to be focused, it helps me to be kind of grounded when I feel the anxiety stirring in me. I think it also gives me objectivity and just, and it's also helped me with boundaries.

[00:18:47] I think, um, even as, as a social worker, we talk a lot about boundaries and in relationships and whatnot, and I think the five helps me to set up those healthy boundaries, um, and as a coach as [00:19:00] well. And to create, to be able to look at people's lives and perspectives and stories with objectivity. Um, I think the sixth part of me can get, can pull into the, you know, the worry or just the anxiety and that vibe just helps me to see the situation for what it is.

[00:19:17] And, um, and it also gives me, yeah, like I said, that boundaries in my own life with. Starting, and I see this more and more, you know, needing time to just recharge and never, I wasn't that way so much as teenager and twenties. Um, but now if I'm out or doing a presentation or with people, I'm like, I just need to, I need to be home and recharge.

[00:19:41] And I see that as a gift to me now. So I see that a little bit of that self-preservation. I'm managing my resources of sleep and and whatnot, but I see that five really some healthy things. Um, do you want me to go into some of the more ways that I see it showing up in unhealthy ways or do we wanna talk about that?

[00:19:57] Yeah, we're gonna do that next. Uh, Adam, I'd love to [00:20:00] hear too, how do you see the five part of your heart showing up in healthy ways? Kara nailed it. Um, you know, just, I, I, I feel like I can say what what Kara said, but, uh, but put it in my own words, you know, the five part of me I've noticed really gives me the gift of curiosity.

[00:20:16] So, um, this is a part of me that I'm, I've noticed, helps me learn and grow because it's, it's a part of me that's always asking questions, always digging and exploring and chasing a discovery. Um, so it's a part of me that pushes me to read, pushes me to buy books, pushes me to, um, ask a lot of questions, hopefully before I make judgements.

[00:20:36] Um, and then similar to, to what you said there, Kara, the older I get, the more I respect how my five wing helps me draw boundaries and recharge. I used to feel a lot of shame, um, saying no to someone. And, and I'm not saying I don't still struggle with that. Um, but I also used to work in, um, working environments where working 70 hours a week and being exhausted by it [00:21:00] was bragged about and worn like a badge of honor.

[00:21:03] Uh, and in my, in my twenties and early thirties, I really shamed my five part when it would show up and encourage me to slow down and not work as much and take a day off. And I would, you know, call myself names that I'm not gonna repeat out loud on the podcast because I wanted to maybe slow down a little bit or, and draw a boundary.

[00:21:24] And it was this, it was this way of really shaming myself. And so now that I'm 40, uh, I'm not necessarily a spring chicken. Uh, and I'm, I'm learning to appreciate what a gift this part of me is and how it helps me to say no if I need to say no and, uh, take a Sabbath, take a day off, like re I mean, uh, you know, so I'm, I'm really, I'm really learning to appreciate that's some of the healthy ways I notice this part of me showing.

[00:21:51] Now what's interesting is being the wife of a six who had a very dominant seven wing early on, and you guys are the same. [00:22:00] Yes. I'm curious if you experienced the same thing as I have. So now that Jeff's five wing is much more active. Yeah, he too is much more at times quiet and contemplating and thinking like, we'll be in the car and it used to be like music up, you know, like talking all the time, engagement, you know, like really wanting to connect.

[00:22:22] Yeah. And I was in the last year, year and a half, it's been much more quiet. Um, music may or may not be on, and if it's on, it's kind of quiet and it's, I'm almost as the spouse, like, is everything okay? It's so funny. She'll say things like, can you hear that? Yeah. Cause, well I'm older so then I'm like, I can't really hear the music.

[00:22:44] Are you enjoying the music? It's not even like she's funny up. I, one, I recognized how much I was working out my anxiety by talking it through with you. So you, you held it for years. But there was one moment I didn't do the est stuff. We, we got on the, hi, we got on the highway [00:23:00] and I was quiet for about, uh, two miles maybe.

[00:23:04] Yeah, maybe two miles, not even five minutes. And she says, what, what have you been thinking? Yeah, I was just curious. Like, you know, because you know you're a six and I'm, the reason why I asked the question is cuz I literally wasn't thinking anything. Like my brain just, I don't even know what that would be like.

[00:23:22] I imagine, yeah. What? Yeah, that just rings true to me. Like I was looking, you know, at the scenery, but I was really kind of checked out and all the nines out there, totally understand what I'm saying. No one else will understand maybe. But I asked him, I'm like, so what were you thinking? Literally for like five minutes, he just went and went and went and told me all these things and she got upset with me that I shared with all my so overwhelmed.

[00:23:48] I was like, how is it even possible that he, I did something wrong, thought of this much stuff, and then I kind of felt bad for him cuz I was like, oh god, head, right? Yeah. [00:24:00] I'm like, I'm like, can't you just like turn it off, you know? I think I started disassociate even as you were talking. Sure. Oh, absolutely.

[00:24:08] I can see you at times. I mean, she's gone well, and Adam, you have a type nine wife. Does, she could have done the same thing with you at times. This is, this is the absolute funniest thing to me because it's the same, it's the same dance, same thing, same thing. If I'm quiet, she wants to know if I'm okay and if she asks what I'm thinking and I tell her, she gets overwhelmed.

[00:24:31] I mean, it's, it's, it's the same. It's the same thing. And it was so funny. It's like the quietness. I, cuz I'm more introverted, I, I kind of enjoy, but I don't know what to do with it cuz it's not Yeah. Been for 20, we've been married now 27 years, so 25 of those years was all of this connectivity and talking and which was great and exhausting all at the same time.

[00:24:56] And now that it's. Not there as much. I sometimes [00:25:00] don't know what to do. Your quiet, stubbornness one in the long run. In the long run, it just took a long time. Yeah. I've definitely noticed the same trend. And, and, and Carrie would say she's noticed the same trend, but what's funny is when I get around my friends Mm.

[00:25:13] You know, like Jeff and I are in the same room, that's whenever I Oh yeah. Like I call my seven, it's, it's the, it's this buddy energy. Mm-hmm. It's almost this like, what do you guys wanna do? You know, like, let's do, let's do something. Um, you know, and uh, and it could be like, let's, it could be as extreme as like, let's set something on fire or, uh, you know, let, let, let me show you some funny tos that I've recently discovered.

[00:25:37] Like, you know, it's anything in between. See what happens. Well, let's talk about the unhealthy ways the five can show up. Yes. Okay. So with the unhealthy ways that the five can show up, is that not only is the mind of the six gonna be running, but so is the mind of the five. So you've got competing anxieties going on.

[00:25:58] So the six is thinking [00:26:00] about all the things that might happen negatively speaking. It could be relationally, it could be just circumstances, but the, the five is gonna be the intellect of this. And so they're gonna research and try to strategize all the ways to avoid these pitfalls that might happen. And it can become all consuming.

[00:26:18] And the five feels that they never have enough information. So you're gonna see more frenetic energy. Um, they're gonna be more withdrawn, independent, maybe isolated. They're going to be more compartmentalized in secret. And really kind of hone in on their relationships, the ones they're committed to, to ensure that everything is going to go well.

[00:26:39] You're also gonna see verses the seven, you're gonna see this five part of their heart, um, to become very fixated on just a few relationships and be more suspicious. Like, who can I trust? Who can I not trust? So the, the, the five can be very cynical when it's not healthy. And the six definitely is gonna be [00:27:00] suspicious.

[00:27:00] So it's gonna be gauging a lot about the relationship and how things are going. And if it feels unsafe, it's going to withdraw and pull back a lot more and be more isolated. So with saying that, Adam, why don't we have you go first. How does the Type five in an unhealthy way show up in your life? Yeah, well, You're picking up, I was just listening to you explain that you're, you're, you're really highlighting this truth that a lot of writers have picked up on that with, with every gift there is a bit of gold and there's shadow, you know, there's always a shadow side to the, to the gift.

[00:27:36] And, you know, I feel like my five gives me this gift of curiosity and learning and, and, and exploring and researching and digging. And, but the shadow side of that is when all of that becomes, uh, overthinking. Um, and, and really procrastination. I can't tell you how many times I, I could have finished a sermon by lunch on Wednesday, but I had to read three [00:28:00] more books, 11 more articles, listened to five more podcasts, uh, because I feel like I didn't know enough to preach the text.

[00:28:08] And I struggle with this fear of not knowing enough and being incompetent. I mean, I have literally had nightmares of I'm gonna stand up there. And not know what to say. I'm not gonna know I even know anything about this text or know how to apply it or I'm, I'm just so that, that fear of, and I understand that this, the type five is part of me.

[00:28:28] My heart is just trying to protect me from that fear. Yeah. And keep that from happening. Uh, but if I'm not careful, this can really paralyze me. Um, yeah, that's the thing. That's one, that's one thing. I'm glad that you said that, Adam, sorry to interrupt you. Yeah, no, go ahead. But one thing I didn't mention was that when we talk about the unhealthy parts of our wings or just our type as a whole, it has good intentions.

[00:28:50] Yeah. It's trying to help. Yeah. But it's ill-equipped and it may not have the full perspective. And so we wanna treat it, you know, with [00:29:00] dignity and be attuned to it and, and welcome it and not shame it or condemn it. Um, that just only makes things worse. And so how can we lovingly, um, come alongside it and, and guide it into a healthier perspective?

[00:29:15] So, I'm sorry. Continue. I just, no, that's been the biggest thing for me. That's been the biggest thing for me. And, you know, we like, that's, that's why, you know, we hit on that so heavy in the book, you know, it's, it's like that kindness really does soften the part and open the door for change. I have found that if I shame this part of my heart or come at it with aggression, it's only going to dig in its heels.

[00:29:36] I mean, it's, it's just, it's gonna get more anxious. It's gonna get, and so, um, the, the only other thing I was gonna say is, is just the, you know, it's, it's the shadow side to setting boundaries, you know, so like, I feel like my five gives me this gift of setting boundaries. But the, the, you know, when it's, when I'm not in a healthy spot, I, I wanna stay there.

[00:29:57] You know, the, the walls that I build around me get [00:30:00] taller and thicker and I might withdraw from everyone, including my family. And, um, Carrie will, you know, tell me quickly when that happens. Uh, but it's, it's, it's, it's one of the less healthy ways, again, trying to help me, trying to protect me and knows it, knows that I need to recharge.

[00:30:18] Uh, but if I'm not careful, I can, I can disappear completely. So, Kara, what about you? Thanks. I do resonate with a lot of what Adam said a couple ways. I see that kind of unhealthy side for me is really in that analysis paralysis of getting stuck in my head. I mean, as a six, we are all those, you know, inner committee voices are always chiming in.

[00:30:39] But just that getting, when I feel, it's when I feel stressed too. It's the just the kind of hamster wheel of just complete inability to make a decision and. I think for myself, I see, um, sometimes my relying not so much on, I think the sixth part of me is looking for other people to tell me what to do in those [00:31:00] situations.

[00:31:00] So I get stuck wanting my husband just tell me what to do, you know, or texting another friend or texting and just not trusting that, that inner part and that just going where I'm just completely in the head. I see as being that five part at times where I'm losing a little bit of the connection with my body or with my emotions in that situation.

[00:31:21] Um, and I definitely resonate with what Adam said about the shadow side to boundaries. I think, you know, the early part of myself really didn't, I don't see that so much showing up and extroverted, so I'm very social, but I'm starting to see in subtle ways how um, I can at times be a little stingy with my time when I'm feeling stressed, especially with my kids, um, or my husband even like, Um, when I, I kind of get to the point sometimes where I'm like, I just want to be done.

[00:31:49] I wanna check out, I wanna relax. Um, and I'm, I'm moving into that space of kind of, I think it's, I see how my fight is trying to protect me. It knows I need to relax. [00:32:00] I need to, you know, unwind before I go to sleep, cuz when I need my rest and I see all of those things, but I can see how I can be frustrated.

[00:32:08] Like, if something is supposed to end at nine o'clock at night, let's say, you know, and it goes late and I internally start to get a little activated, like, now I'm not gonna be able to go home and I'm not gonna have my unwinding time with my husband. And, um, so I see that sometimes as a negative in me just because, um, I know it's, I know again it's that by protecting me, but it is, I can see how sometimes it goes overboard, I think.

[00:32:34] Mm-hmm. It doesn't account for the fact that, you know, God will give me refreshments and he will meet me. In those moments where I just wanna draw the line in the sand, or when my kids wanna have a conversation late at night and I'm like, I'm done. I can't do it. Which teenagers like to have conversations late at night.

[00:32:51] Oh, yes. Yeah. I wonder if you guys experience this as it relates to the five part of our hearts. Um, there. [00:33:00] So what am I now, Beth? 47. 48. Mm-hmm. Yeah. About to be 48. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I've had a lot of experience. I've had a lot of training and I mean, my Evernote file system is just massive, uh, of the years of collective materials that I've never gone back to.

[00:33:19] Um, but just in case. But I, but I will, there have been moments that I do, but as it re, so it relates to avaris and hoarding information. So gathering all this inform. But I find too, so I can fear not being prepared, but I can also feel like, Hey, I don't know if this person will affirm or appreciate what I know.

[00:33:45] And so I will arrogantly not share that part of my heart. Hmm. Hmm. Do, do you guys experience that as well or am I just crazy? No. Being stingy with your That's right. Where it's like, you know, you don't, you, you [00:34:00] don't know how good I am at what I do and I'm not even gonna show you, cuz I don't think you'll value it.

[00:34:06] At the same time feeling I don't know what I'm doing. Sure. I have no confidence in myself. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I, I absolutely resonate with that. And you know, Jeff, you and I have made jokes about how similar we are in terms of. We, we, I don't, I don't know if it's a gift or a curse, but we hold onto quotes.

[00:34:30] Like we remember quotes and like, I, I don't have a photographic memory, but I can tell you like, oh yeah, it's somewhere around page 27. I know. It's like in the upper left part of the page. Right. And, and, and Kurt Thompson said this, this is what he said. And it's, and it's not, cuz I'm, it's not, it's not.

[00:34:49] Listen, and I'm not, it's not false humility. It's not, it's not brilliance. I think it's the five part of me that so desperately wants to, uh, know enough [00:35:00] and so desperately wants to protect me with knowledge. But, but it's, it's, and it's a slightly different point than you were making Jeff. I do think there's times where I withhold what I know and don't share what I, and don't share what I know because I don't, I, I either, I either fear that the other person might know more or might, you know, prove me wrong or that they're not going to appreciate what I, what I have to say.

[00:35:21] Yeah. Yeah. Kara, do you experience this? I do, I think a little slightly different angle. I don't necessarily resonate at as much with the hoarding of knowledge. I mean, that's not a piece that I, that I do, although I see how I, when I do know, I, I think I go deep diving with the relationships and people, and maybe that's that self press where I'm using alliances and you know, how many groups and I love being a part of groups.

[00:35:49] And so, um, I see how sometimes those things really hit, I absolutely resonate with the piece of holding onto pieces more. For me it's [00:36:00] self doubt. It's doubting that I actually have something to offer. You know, and even as I digging into the Enneagram before I was deciding to become a coach and just kind of trying to pray about what was like the next step for me after the kids are getting older.

[00:36:14] My husband and other people would reflect to me. They're like, you remember everything? They're like, and this isn't something people who know me. I mean, they know I'm not, they wouldn't call me an academic. I don't have a ton of books. I remember dates of people's kids' birthdays, and I remember all of like those kinds of things.

[00:36:31] And uh, but with the Graham, I just, I learned it and, and yet I had this doubt that I could actually offer it to somebody. Um, so that may be more the sixth part of the self-doubt, but I see how that five, you know, just the ability with the topics that I'm interested in, the ability to really go into that space of support, of holding onto that knowledge.

[00:36:56] Um, and I'd have to explore a little bit more if that's [00:37:00] coming out of a place of Sure. Involve of what you were speaking of, kind of am I hoarding it because of the arrogant sense that people wouldn't understand? I don't know for sure. Yeah. Something about.

[00:37:11] so for those that are curious to find Adam, you know, and Kara on our directory page, you go to my enneagram coach.com and that's where our certified coaches are.

[00:37:21] So you can go in there and type in their name. Yep. And you'll see them pop up. Well remember, if you're interested in learning more about the Enneagram, head on over to your engram coach.com. If you wanna take your Enneagram knowledge further into where it can really change your life, find one of our coaches like Adam and like Kira.

[00:37:39] And for those of you who want to bless others and by becoming an Enneagram coach, be sure to check out our industry leading certification program at your ingram coach uh.com. Our to coaching team is looking forward to help you to fulfill some dreams of being a blessing in the lives of others. And as always, remember that the engram reveals your need for [00:38:00] Jesus, not your need to work harder.

[00:38:01] It is the gospel that transforms us. So thanks for tuning in, and in our next episode we're going to talk about type sevens wings. So, uh, we can't wait to see you there.