Introduction

Beth 1:12

Hey everyone. This is Beth. And I'm Jeff. And this is your enneagram coach, the podcast. We're here to help you to understand yourselves with astonishing clarity so that you can break free from self condemnation, fear, and shame by knowing and experiencing the unconditional love, forgiveness, and freedom and Christ. Well, if you didn't know, guess what? We're on YouTube, so head over there. You can watch this podcast, but we hope that you'll like it and subscribe so you don't miss any new content that we.

Jeff 1:41

Hey, today we're gonna be talking about type sevens wings, which are type six and eight. If the concept of wings is new to you, we suggest going and heading back to listen to one episode, one 60, but we explain what the enneagram wings are in more detail. Essentially, wings are the two types directly next to your main type. So that means that sevens can't have a four wing or a one wing. Um, it's just the two numbers next to it. So I'm a type six, so I've got five and seven as wings. And Beth, here's a type nine. She's got eight and one wings. Yep,

Enneagram Type 7 Summary

Beth 2:12

absolutely. So today we're gonna talk about the type seven wings. Now your main type is the driving force behind why you think, feel, and behave. In particular ways based on your core motivations. Now, there are four core motivations that are really the driving force. So you have a core fear, your core longing, your core desire, and your core weakness. Now, your wings play a significant role in why you think, feel, and behave because they come from their own perspective. They see it, they see the world and circumstances from their vantage. From their core motivations and they want to influence your main type, like, Hey, see it my way. Do it my way. Think my way, feel my way. And so they're influencing you from their vantage point. But again, your main type ultimately is driving the show. But we wanna talk today about how WINGS are influencing a person with the main type of type seven.

Jeff 3:12

Well, the reality is that we have relationships with these various parts of us, and so there's this mutual influence that's happening between our main types and our wings. And we're gonna be discussing, we discuss a lot of this in our new book, more than Your Number. You should go check that. To really understand the concept of how to use these various parts and how they show up in your, in your, uh, daily lives in healthy as well as unhealthy ways. So talking about your wings as parts might seem strange at first, but guess what? You already speak this way without even realizing, you know, whenever you're talking to others and you feel pulled in two different directions, both in your thoughts, maybe in your feelings, and you say, well, part of me wants this, or part of me wants this. Uh, but another part of me, uh, wants or desires to do. Your wings bring their own perspectives based on their core motivations, and bring up at times contradicting thoughts, maybe even contradicting feelings that can create, uh, a feeling of being stuck, torn, or indecisive. So as we talk about the Type seven Wings with our guest, whom we're gonna introduce here in a moment, keep in mind. That they are always remain their main type and the core motivations of a seven leading the way. But what you'll hear today is how certain situations their six wing and their eight wing parts will show up to influence how they live their lives.

Beth 4:27

Yeah, that's right. So before we introduce our guests, let me just do a quick reminder for everyone a. About what the type seven is like. So the sevens we call the enthusiastic optimist. They're joyful, enthusiastic, obviously they're sociable people that radiate optimism in all situations. They are lovers of variety. They live life big, and they're eager to enjoy as much as the world offers because they see this endless possibilities and they love to innovate new things, um, to experience. Now, of course, type seven s also have struggles. They hate to be limited, restricted, bored, or definitely left out of something really fun. And for them, what's important to understand is they have this deep feeling of emptiness inside them and they're constantly battling the fear that they will never be able to fill themselves up with satisfaction or contentment. So you'll see them. Struggling with this fear by exerting themselves to the next fun thing, the next stimulation, the next excitement to alleviate these anxieties that they have of experiencing, uh, depletion to not have enough. So for them, think of sevens as. You know, enjoying life as cotton candy. They see life as super sweet to the taste and it looks fun. And so they go and they, they eat. And like, this is gonna be great, right? I mean, we all think that about cotton candy, right? Looks fun, it tastes great, but it doesn't last. And so because the experiences don't last long enough, or give that real satisfaction, they have to go to the next thing and the next thing, and this comes from their core motivation. So let's see what the sevens core motivations. Their core fear is being deprived, trapped in emotional pain, limited bored, and missing out on something fun. So they head towards their core, desire to be happy, fully satisfied, and content, but they struggle with the core weakness of gluttony. Now, this is where they feel this great emptiness inside and that. Feeling that they have to fill themselves up with those experiences to be content, but their core longing, this is the message their heart longs to hear and experience is to hear you will be taken care of. And that's really important. A lot sevens of will think, wait, what does that really mean? Like I take care of myself just fine. They actually really long for someone else to help them to feel that fulfillment, that they're not always on their own to try to get it and to actually experience fulfillment and satisfaction would mean the world to them.

Meet Type 7s Melissa and Marty

Jeff 7:05

Hey, our guest today are Marty De Forge and Melissa Corkum. Thank you both for joining us today. And so why don't we start with you? Uh, first Marty, tell us a little bit about you and why you ended up becoming an Enneagram coach and got into this whole Enneagram thing. Mm, Yeah,

Marty 7:21

absolutely. So I was first introduced to the Enneagram by my mom back in like 2016. I was really into anything

Melissa 7:31

personality.

Jeff 7:32

Yeah, that, that's a little bit different. Usually these days it's kids telling their parents about the Enneagram. So I know right,

Marty 7:39

she, she pulled out this old book in like the back of her closet and it was the wisdom of the Enneagram and I just was obsessed with it. And I remember. Getting to seven and was like, wow, I have all my problems are on paper in front of me. And it was also like in my very early twenties, which was when I feel like I've been the most seven-ish in my life. And I was like, wow, wow. This is pretty crazy. And I been just studying it ever since. Mm-hmm. And then finally back in, I think it was October, that's when, you know, registration opened up for Y E C. I had no idea it was the last day to sign up, but I had met with Adam and he's like, today's the last day. And I was like, oh no. I gotta act fast. Aw. So I jumped in and it's been fantastic ever since. And I'm so pumped to be a certified

Beth 8:34

coach now. Yeah. Oh, that's super cool. Congratulations. That's awesome.

Jeff 8:38

Well, Melissa, welcome. We're glad you're here. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Melissa 8:42

Well, thanks guys for having me. I am an adoptee, an adoptive mom and co-founder of the Adoption Connection where we serve adoptees and their families. And I first heard about the Enneagram on, I think, where I find all great things, which is another podcast, and you know, immediately got curious. I did all the things wrong. I took a test, I typed other people. So I feel like anytime I introduce someone to the Enneagram, I start with this like, long list of disclaimers. Like, it's like the first thing I wanna say out of my mouth. Uh, but anyway, in, I, in 2020, early 2020, right as the world was shutting down, I think you all were opening a cohort of, uh, YEC and I thought, well, this is a fantastic like Covid project to get certified. And my business partner at the Adoption Connection and I, we did it together. And so that was super fun. And so we mostly coach adoptive families, adoptees and adoptive parents because this has been the tool that helped me untangle my adoption story the most. Like there were so many things about my story that I didn't understand. Relation to other adoptees that I had encountered, including my siblings and the Enneagram. Shed so much light. I had so many puzzle pieces, kind of like click into place. Uh, so yeah, I'm just, it makes me super excited. And same thing as Marty, like, you know, Went really deep, really hard, you know, read as many books as possible, listened to as many podcasts as possible. Um, and then my story is, I, I think because I was in a season of stress when I first learned about it, um, just because I was looking more at the behavior checklist than. Really those deep motivations. I was pretty sure I was a type one for a long time and then it took a lot of listening to other stories and like crying through enough seven like interviews where I listened to other sevens and me going like, what the heck was that all about? For me to be like, oh, you know, maybe you're a seven.

Beth 10:42

Right? Yeah, that's is true. Fascinating. Well,

Jeff 10:46

I, I really appreciate you bringing up the fact, uh, in regards to adoption. Uh, that had, so I was adopted as well. Um, and had the privilege of sharing last fall at a conference called Replanted about, particularly as it related to, cuz I found my biological mother. Uh, and rec I was raised, um, by, uh, white parents, but so, and they didn't know what my racial heritage was. Mm-hmm. Um, they had a clue, but it was interesting growing up in that. And so they wanted me to speak to, um, the issue of race as well as, uh, finding my biological parents. Uh, but I don't know. I, I'm really surprised by this. I, I don't think I actually thought about it through the lens of being.

Beth 11:31

No, I think you have, I think why you're probably taking a step back and thinking about it right now wondering is because Melissa has siblings and you were the only child, so she was kind of seen com in a sense kind of comparing like what, what was the differences you. Didn't have that to process, plus you weren't maybe as close with your parents to even process. But the Sure you, you have in the sense of that feeling of loneliness and abandonment, like yes, the attachment styles. Has also helped you in connection with being a type six? Yeah. Helped you to go Oh yes. Not only being adopted would I feel this way, but as a six I feel this way. So it combines, I think

Jeff 12:12

I remember what it was I was thinking when I prepared it because I wanted the presentation to be personal mm-hmm. Rather than professional. So I wasn't getting on stage as the the Enneagram guy. I was getting up there as Jeffrey. Yeah.

Melissa 12:26

And Jeff, do you ever, can you ever separate the Enneagram from anything? Isn't that just what runs the head for every

Jeff 12:32

Yeah. I mean, really people wonder, like, they'll say stuff like, are you guys typing me? Like, no, we're not typing you. Yes, yes. You're lying.

Melissa 12:39

Typing, typing someone in our heads. Yeah. Oh, all. Well, and to be fair, to be fair, Jeff, I don't think I really face a lot. My own story until I became an adoptive mom and Mm wow. And came into

Beth 12:54

we need to adopt a child. Yeah. So

Melissa 12:55

that, yeah. That, trust me, it'll solve all your problems, not, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I mean, it it, right. Weird and long journey, but, um, just so, so

Beth 13:09

helpful. Yes. That's amazing. Well, thanks for bringing that up. That is really, It's really powerful for

Jeff 13:15

sure. Yeah. Thank you both for showing up and um, bringing all that you are to this conversation particularly about wings. So it's common for people to talk about their dominant wings. Which is the wing that they use most often, and many out there believe that they only have one wing, but it's not actually the case. Just as a bird has uses both wings. So do we. So today we're gonna be talking about both wings because it's important to recognize when they show up in our lives. For the type seven s, that means type six and type eight are showing up and those can play a great role in their lives. When we discuss each wing, let us know if one of these is more dominant for the two of our guests, uh, more than the other.

Enneagram 7 wing 8

Jeff 13:55

So let's start with the wing eight. Its core Fear is being weak, powerless, harm control, maybe vulnerable, manipulated, and left at the mercy of injustice. Its core desires to protect, uh, particularly those in your inner. This part is self-reliant, protective, independent, strong, blunt, and has a take charge. It supports your main type by using its passion, determination, and strength to help you gain all that your heart desires. This part of you sees your failures as positive opportunities to try something new, better and different, and you'll be willing to endure hardships with a can-Do confidence and energetic drive to make life better for yourself as well as for others. You're gonna notice that this part of you is a natural leader who is decisive, confident, and able to quickly delegate your. Or delegate to your team in ways that allow them to thrive in Excel. And it is courageous and willing to ensure safety and provide protection for those you lead. Mm-hmm. Now, when, when do you notice the healthy qualities of your eight wing and how does it actually help in the expression of your seven ness? And, you know, why don't we start with Marty first?

Marty 15:05

I'll be honest, it took me a while to notice eight qualities. Mm-hmm. I feel like I always leaned more heavy on the sixth side, so I really had to. Mm-hmm. Dig deep into what does eight look like for a seven?

Jeff 15:19

Yeah, it helps. Well, you wanna emphasize the six because it is the best part of anyone's.

Beth 15:24

Exactly. Enneagram we all,

Jeff 15:26

you're not biased. No, not at all. I've had a great time with the six parts of my heart.

Marty 15:36

I noticed the eight side is what helps me get stuff done and just knock out things and I. Pretty quickly. Like if you don't want to, like, if there's things you're dreading, like just get it done, move through it, it'll be over.

Jeff 15:53

Yes. Now, Marty, is there anyone in, how does, uh, 8ness show up in your family? Like, is, is eight an appropriate attitude or energy in your family? Is there another eight that's like, Nope, they've got the eight covered, so no one else can be that strong and decisive? Does it show up at all in your family?

Marty 16:13

I don't know. I will say my, I'm pretty sure my mom is a nine, so she's very much, she's that softer energy. And I will say I definitely think eight like characteristics are probably more discouraged. Like definitely if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it. Be really polite, be really empathetic. So I could see where eight was not super encouraged. The hardworking. Get stuff done was encouraged for sure.

Jeff 16:42

Mm-hmm. Oh, that's great. I mean, I, I'd say that in our family

Beth 16:46

Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, even though I'd bring out the eight Sure. Quite a bit. But,

Jeff 16:52

but yeah. I mean, I can think of just conversations with Nate that I've had where I, like, I doubled down on why he should be cautious. It's not like you go for it, man. Yeah. Live or

Beth 17:03

die. Yeah. I'm, I'm actually the one that's more like, yeah, go for.

Jeff 17:07

That's right. Wow. Interesting. Well, Melissa, how does the eight part of you show up in healthy ways?

Melissa 17:13

Yeah. Well, you know, we all know each other I think, or know ourselves sometimes the best by like the unhealthy aspect. So this part is, is actually harder for me. Although I will say I often introduce myself as a seven with a really healthy move to eight. Like in terms of like it's my big wing, like I like the opposite of Marty. I think it took into the last couple years. For me to be like, oh, like that behavior that I've had for maybe a long time, like, oh, maybe that's a six thing. I've just always resonated so much more with eight qualities. So much so that when I first read an Enneagram book and then I think it was one that went starting with eight and ending with seven. So I think it like did the body types first. Um, I read eight and I thought, okay, like that could be me. And so I think where it shows up is in leadership roles that when I'm a healthy leader, I'm tapping into that eight wing. Um, But there, I think I could probably come up with a lot more stories for the unhealthy eight wing in me. Yeah.

Jeff 18:24

Now, I'm curious for the both of you, does, um, does any family members or close friends, spouses, maybe, does anyone, can they identify when your eight wing is present in the relationship?

Melissa 18:38

Oh, yeah. I'm sure it's the bossy me, like I'm sure for my kids it's the bossy mom. I'm, you know, My brother is an eight. And so I think about my mom is also a nine, like Marty's and how her first two kids were an A seven and then an eight. And of course we knew nothing about the Enneagram then, but it, it explains so much about her struggles, right? With the two of us because I mean, we, we were running the show and we had more and we could outer energy her and outlast her and out stubborn her. Um, and so. So actually stubborn. That's one of the things I think that has served us well in parenting is that when it comes to consistency, when we decide that we're gonna put our foot down about something, then we we're really unmovable. I'm actually married to an eight as it turns out, and it took us a while to figure that out. Um, he's a softer, um, more socially dominant eat, and so. I think I never gave him like credit for being in eight because people always talk about eights as being maybe a little bit more intimidating, bigger personalities. But what I've, I think what happens is when you are also in that same. Big personality group, like if you're a seven with a really big eight wing, or if you're another eight, that you don't experience eights the same way that the rest of the world does. And so I was hearing other people explain how they experienced eights, and I don't experience him that way, but I also have met almost no eights that I experience in that way unless they're super, super unhealthy. And so then I was like, oh, that makes sense, like, mm-hmm. Yeah. So there's a lot of. There's a lot of big energy in

Beth 20:18

our house. Well in, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Like if, if aid is more of your dominant wing, Sevens and eights are assertive types. And so it makes sense that a, an assertive energy around you isn't going to feel the same as it would me as a type nine. You know? I'm going to definitely feel that intensity. And again, as a mom, yeah, definitely try to tamp it down. Like let's all just be calm and kind, you know? Mm-hmm. And everyone else is like, what? No, you need this energy, this excitement, and. Do we really though?

Jeff 20:50

Well, if you look back in our episodes, we've talked to uh, sometimes the misunderstood types and that is, uh, eight women. And so it, it could be at times. Have you felt discouragement for even allowing that part of you to show up? Like bossy mom or bossy sister? Sister?

Melissa 21:07

Um, I think probably more in like public arenas. I mean for sure. Like no kid likes the bossy mom for sure. Um, Unless she's bossing other people. Unless she's bossing other people maybe. Yeah. But I think that's the thing, right? Like the bo like the, the unhealthy, bossy type is I think the most recognizable, maybe unhealthy quality. Sure. Of the eight. And that is like a descriptor. Like I, I think, you know, natural leader is like the nice way people describe me as a child. Yes. And then like, you know, bossy was,

Beth 21:43

yeah, that's true. Okay, well, so then let's dive into the unhealthy space for type 8s right?

Jeff 21:51

That's the one thing about the enneagram that's different from all the others. Like, you don't really get into, like, let's talk about the negatives of being an extrovert, right? No, you're, it's just the positive and you That's true. Accentuate it, right? Yeah. But, but not the enneagram it,

Beth 22:03

it dark goes. Yeah, it goes right there. But it's a non-judgmental friend. Sure. That's right. So we wanna use it in

7w8 in unhealth

Beth 22:08

that. But when we're looking at the unhealthy characteristics of The Wing eight and the Wing six, we wanna remember that they have good intentions. They're not out there just trying to sabotage our life. They just happen to be misaligned in the moment, and they think that their way of seeing the world and interpreting it and giving you advice on what you should. Um, is helpful and, but they, they just don't realize that it's actually misaligned and unhelpful. So a seven with an eight wing that isn't as help helpful and isn't as healthy, they're gonna be really assertive and high, high energy. I mean, this is gonna be one of the most energetic. It's a lot of energy. It's a lot of energy. Both types want what they want and they want it. And so you're gonna feel that intensity, that passion to get like adrenaline highs and to get what they feel like they need right now in the moment. And they're very impatient. They're not going to wait around to make sure that you get their needs, uh, met. They're going to ensure that their needs are met, uh, through demands and consistency. Um, And they can become pretty critical and impatient with those around them. So you'll kind of, kind of feel this passionate plow of plowing over people. But because seven is in the lead, you're gonna find that it's more, uh, charming. Um, it's gonna be more reframing of or excusing their behaviors. Like, well, but I need this and I need that, and it's going to make people like agree like, oh, well I guess that's true. And people will go along with a seven, with a strong eight wing, probably a lot more than an eight with a seven wing, just because a seven is leading and bringing a lot of that charm, um, and excitement. Um, but also the spin on it is so, um, Kind of just intriguing for the other people, like, well, I guess that's true. Yes, we, we have to do this and this is gonna be the best thing that's ever happened. And so people almost don't have a choice but to follow the lead of a seven with an eight wing. But it doesn't mean it's always good or helpful because, The seven is just seeing the, the positive, uh, ramifications or consequences, or at least they think it's gonna be positive, um, but in fact it might not be. And so I would love to hear from you guys, how has your eight wing, uh, with that kind of spin of the seven really tried to plow a path to get what you want and to get it right away? Yeah. I have a,

Marty 24:40

an example that comes to mind for me. I, I was. First graduated college, I had just kind of turned down grad school and didn't know what I was gonna do. It was kind of the first time in my life I had free time, which, you know, is like a, a blessing and a curse for a seven. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm bored. I have to fill everything. And I think it was Enneagram Institute that said it. It was like the seven wing eight is living life like a tourist almost. They're just gonna get everything that they want in that. And I just was like, okay, I'm gonna dabble in every hobby I've ever wanted. I'm gonna make people, like, I wanted to get into some really like, niche things that were kind of hard to get into. Like I wanted to do voice acting, and I just kept bugging the people. Let me, let me learn from you, let me learn from you, let me help me, help me, help me. Like kept doing it and was just in over my head with hobbies in over my head with starting a new job. Like just trying everything at. And the six side was completely shut down. Cause there was like no fear and it was like, get what you want now, and if you don't, we're gonna be in trouble. Mm-hmm.

Beth 25:50

Wow.

Melissa 25:50

And yeah, that's where my brain,

Jeff 25:52

you, you were agreeing a bit. You, you've experienced this part of yourself as well. Yeah.

Melissa 25:57

I was thinking like the over-committed person I can resonate with a lot. Like too many yeses. Not enough, no. Um, and I think the other part is confidence, which I think mm-hmm is one of the pluses of it can be healthy, is to have the confidence to be in a tough position, meet new people, any of those things. But I also feel like an unhealthy seven with an unhealthy eight wing is also confidently wrong. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Marty 26:27

I'm confidently wrong with my fiance, probably every week,

Melissa 26:31

you know? And so we come in with so much confidence. Um, we think fast, we make decisions fast, but when I make a decision, I have, you know, I have all the reasons for why I think I'm right, and, and I won't even show. That little bit of six wing, I'm just like, this is what we're supposed to do. And then here I'll convince you for why. And then, you know, every once in a while you have to like back that up and be like, okay, I was wrong. But people were like, like, they're so blindsided. Right? When it, when we l when we end up like down some dead end road or worse like, you know, crashed and burned. Because we lead like, we're like, yeah, this is gonna be great. And even if there's like a smidgen of doubt, it's so easy to suppress that. And so just confident down the path, whatever it is. And sometimes it's great and sometimes it's not. Yeah.

Jeff 27:18

No. Were you two ladies, the team lead in your friend groups? No,

Beth 27:24

definitely

Marty 27:25

not. Hmm. I was, I had a really good friend, eight, and she

Beth 27:29

was, there we go.

Marty 27:32

Yep. Yep. Which I loved cuz she would just, but I think she had a strong seven, so she wanted to do a bunch of fun stuff and I was like, all right,

Beth 27:39

let's go. Yeah. And you were, and she loved you because you were like, yeah, let's go for it. And like, you guys just fun. Yeah. No, that's great. That is so fun. Um, and just to let everyone know, Defensive, uh, mechanism for the seven is rationalization. So you're going to rationalize why your ideas are the best ideas in the world in the moment. And so, like you said, I can be positively wrong, you know, and there's consequences later, but in the moment, You are absolutely believing that your path and your way and the direction you should go is the best way for you and everyone else, and it, and you have all the reasons.

Melissa 28:16

Well, and even when you crash and burn, you reframe so fast. Yes. That like it's really, unless you're really healthy, it's not a real humble like, oh man, guys like. This, like, we shouldn't have done this. It's like, I mean, it's not really that bad. Here's how we're gonna pivot and like yes, make, you know, make the best of it can move on. And then you keep flying. At least we tried,

Beth 28:34

right? And that is the perfect example. So if anyone is out there and they're wondering, or they know of someone that's wondering, you know, am I a three or am a seven? Threes absolutely believe there's failure. And sevens are like, failure. What? No, this is just a new opportunity. Mm-hmm. Like, we can make this great, you know, or we can pivot. You know, threes are like, no, there's no pivoting. It's either you succeed or you fail. You know? Um, and so I love when I hear from Sevens, cuz for them, they, they really are like, well, let's just make something great out of this.

Jeff 29:05

Well, Melissa and Marty, thank you so much. For showing up with every bit of who you are. Uh, and it, it's such a gift, not only to us, but also to all of our listeners. So thank you so much. Um, Melissa, where can people find out more about your coaching?

Melissa 29:20

So you can find us@theadoptionconnection.com. Uh, we're post adoption resources on Instagram. Um, so yeah, all

Jeff 29:28

the places. Fantastic. And Marty, about yourself. Where can people find.

Marty 29:33

Yeah. Yeah. So I am of course on the Y U C directory, you search. Just Marty, my first name, I'll come up, but also any Graham coach Marty on both Instagram and TikTok.

Find a coach

Beth 29:43

That's awesome. And just to let people know that that is myenneagramcoach.com, and then just type in Marty and you'll see her there.

Jeff 29:51

Well remember, if you're interested in learning more about the enneagram, head on over to yourenneagramcoach.com. If you wanna take it further, be sure to head over to my enneagram coach.com where you can find hundreds of coaches around the world, uh, that can help you to take you to the healthy places that you desire.

Become a Coach

Jeff 30:05

And for those of you who want to bless others by becoming a certified Enneagram coach, be sure to check out our uh, leading certification program at yourenneagramcoach.com/BEC stands for becoming an Enneagram co

Beth 30:17

coach. Yeah, and as always, remember that the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder because it is the gospel that transforms us. Thank you guys so much for joining with us today, and the next episode we'll talk about type eights and their wings.