Introduction

Beth 1:11

Hey everyone. This is Beth. And I'm Jeff. And this is Your Enneagram Coach, the podcast, and we're here to help you to understand yourself with astonishing clarity so that you can break free from self condemnation, fear, and shame by knowing and experiencing the unconditional love, forgiveness, and freedom in Christ. Well, we're on YouTube, so hopefully you're gonna head over there, watch this podcast and make sure if you're there, hit like and subscribe so you don't miss any of our new

Jeff 1:39

content. we're gonna be talking about type nine and they're wings, uh, which are type eight and type one. The concept of wings is new to you. Check out episode one 60 where we explain in what enneagram wings are, uh, particularly in detail.

Enneagram 9 wing 8

Beth 1:53

Exactly. But so for the type eight and you know, people can be really surprised, like how can a type nine have. Type eight wing, like how does this even, and hey, we understand, we get it. I'm sure. Brandon, you, you having a more dominant eight wing is such a conflict internally. But let me just kind of describe how the aids are. So the aids are super resourceful. They're driven, they're decisive, they're natural leaders. They champion themselves, but also others. Providing protection, plowing a path for others. Um, they see where people really fit in the world and they have the confidence to ensure that they get in the right seat of the bus and to get them where they need to go. So it's a great asset. They're independent. Um, they struggle with vulnerability and so do nines, and so they're gonna be a little bit more pulled back and reserved, cautious, kind of waiting to see, can I trust you? Where, where are you going to take my vulnerability? Um, so that you can kind of, you, they might be very personable, but they may not be as vulnerable. I always talk about how I can be very transparent. With the things that I feel comfortable being transparent with. But vulnerability is a whole different ballgame. Vulnerability is like, I don't know what you're gonna do with this information. Transparency is like, you know, If you take this information and you hurt me with it, I'm okay with that. But the vulnerability piece, I'm gonna hold back now. So what I'd love to hear from you guys is how do you see your type eight wing showing up in ways that not only brings you confidence and uh, assurance. But it also brings the ability to plow a path for others. Cuz nines are great at this as well. We're we champion people, we want everyone to have a place at the table to be heard. Uh, to be seen. You know? Cause that's what we fear, that we're not being heard or seen. So how does this eight part of your heart show up in these really dynamic, strong, competent ways? Brandon, why don't we go

Jeff 3:52

with you first?

Brandon 3:53

Um, yeah, it is a definite, definite internal conflict of, uh, the back and forth of, I want my voice to be heard, but do I really? Um, I, I have this story of, uh, a staff member that I had to fire, um, that was just like the worst. And because they were a friend of mine, And, uh, and they just weren't any fun to work around. And they were an eight with a seven, seven wings. So, uh, I knew I had a battle or a confrontation coming up for this, and I just remember the thought of going like, This will not end you. And you have the strength to, to plow through this and do this in a way. So like, you know, during the conversation, I'm, I'm in tears cuz like, I'm so sorry that this is the case, but. You have to go kind of a thing. And uh, I literally, I was like, had to do my power pose before the meeting. Like I had to get my energy up in order to do it, but I had to utilize that in order to do it. And I, as I'm getting older, I'm realizing how much I utilize my eight to, to get things done and move things forward because, I think if I leaned on that one thing I would scrutinize. I would try to make sure it's perfect and so much of it is just like, all right, we're moving now and we're gonna figure it out along the way.

Beth 5:23

exactly. Yeah. I love the So what, what was her name that did the power pose? Ted Talk. Was it Amy something? Anyway, I don't know. Yeah, I think it was Amy. I wish I could remember that,

Jeff 5:34

but So is there like a pre-game speech that you give yourself? I, I mean, I want to, I wanna know more about this. Uh, well

Beth 5:43

that's like when I, before soccer games growing up, I'd listen. That's right. What

Jeff 5:48

did you listen to Beth?

Beth 5:50

I forgot the name of it. LL Cool J. Yeah. But what was the title?

Jeff 5:54

Um, It's the one about, uh, I'm going, oh gosh, I can't remember the name of it now. Mama said Knock you out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's something,

Beth 6:08

yeah. Yeah, and I would as a nine, it's like we, we are so passive and we don't wanna hurt anyone. And so just to get us out of that orbit, I would listen to that song to get me in some kind of assertive orbit, like some sort of confident orbit. And, and I do that even like when I'm gonna go speak, you know, there's, there's times where that nine part of my heart's like, does anyone really wanna hear what I have to say? And I have to go wait. I've got eight right here next to me with a lot of confidence and assurance, and I can tap into that energy and get out there and whatever happens, happens, and it's okay. You know, I'm just gonna be me.

Brandon 6:44

And I think that's the good phrase right there. Whatever

Beth 6:47

Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon 6:47

It's like there's this, I'm gonna work as hard as I can or do the best that I can, but also ultimately the cards will fall where they may, and I can be

Jeff 6:57

Yes. Yeah. Well, Laura, what about your eight wing?

Laura 7:02

Um, my little eight wing likes to say, you're doing fine, Laura. Just keep going. You're, you know, I mean, it is that part of me that does keep me going and keep me motivated. I think it's been a helpful part in me, in like, um, I was nodding my head, you know, Beth, when you were talking about presentations. Anytime I have to lead a workshop or do a presentation or, um, work with teams, um, you know, I think my eight wing comes out much more stronger. Um, I've been told. Um, in a leadership position. I'm gentle but firm. Um, so I definitely think that that is the eight side of me coming out. Um, trying to, um, see, um, everybody's perspective, everybody's point of view, but still yet have the um, The challenge of knowing what the end goal is and helping people like accomplish that, what we have to accomplish. And so I really see it as a strength in me, in kind of in the work that I'm doing trying to, you know, um, meet with people, kind of see people where they're at, and, um, but more than anything, give me the confidence that I need to show up and be

Beth 8:10

Absolutely. Yeah. Beth,

Jeff 8:11

Beth has a, uh, a picture as actually Adam Breckenridge, our director of Coaching, Gaver, has a gift and it's of, uh, An elephant and it's the matriarch leading with the whole clam behind her. Mm-hmm. Is it a Klan of elephants? I don't know. Does anybody know? Herd a herd of elephants.

Laura 8:29

I think it's a herd of elephants, but

Jeff 8:32

gonna go with herd. We're gonna go with a herd. So Beth has a herd.

Beth 8:38

Yeah. So my

Jeff 8:39

tea. That's so funny. That's gonna be the new conversation. Beth. Beth and her heard. Yeah. Um. But do you think that portrait that shows this matriarch leading the way, and I hearing Laura talk about perseverance and even Brandon, that you're gonna get through this? Mm-hmm. That it's the eight part of your heart that really is, that you see that gentle strength in an elephant?

Beth 9:03

Oh yeah. Like because knives are so afraid of their anger. Which eights, nines and ones, that's their, the, the emotion that they all, all three of them actually have common, uh, commonality to. But the nine is just trying to really like, suppress it and not even see it. Mm-hmm. But it's so important. A lot of people think, oh, anger's bad. We're talking about passion, we're talking about this drive within us and w. The nines drive, the nines passion is to not see other people, marginalized, harmed, uh, controlled. To be overlooked like that mm-hmm. Really infuriates us. Now whether we actually do anything with that or if we just sit by the wayside. That kind of depends on the type nine, but a lot of times when I feel that surge of energy inside, I remind myself, no, this is a good thing if I use it correctly. So

Jeff 9:57

now there was that one time that, uh, we had talked about it. We, you and I were getting spun out. Yeah. And you, we, you were up here working.

Beth 10:04

I was and went upstairs to work to kind of cool down a little bit. And then we, we worked it out really quickly through text message and I was like, Hey, I've got all this energy inside cuz you know, I was frustrated, I was upset and I was like, I, I'm getting clarity in the moment of what I need to get done, so I'm just gonna stay up here and knock this out. And he was like, cool. And so for us nines, we lack that inertia to get things moving and the eight can really assist and help us. And so it's tapping into the quote unquote anger, but it's really. Passion or drive or vision that we have, and we're so afraid of tapping into it, but if we'll tap into it, so much good can come from it.

Jeff 10:45

Mm-hmm.

9w8 in unhealth

Jeff 10:47

Okay. Now we're gonna talk about the unhealthy parts. Um, you don't have any unhealthy parts with eight, you bring out only the best of the eight, right. Well, remember, it does have positive intention, and so it's intended to protect us from harm. It's doing it best and it needs, uh, you to see its good intentions in order to bring Christ grace and healing to it. Mm-hmm. So the eight wing for the nine can make you passive aggressive, irritable, frustrated, or stubborn. If you feel overlooked or betrayed, you'll be more controlling and demanding that others listen to you. You'll also struggle to stay tender and patient when others are being disrespected, bullied, or harmed, and you'll avoid vulnerability if you fear that others will take advantage of you and manipulate you into their agendas and desires. Uh, I've often heard it said that type eights describe a fire in their gut. That propels them forward and whether it's towards something that they are passionate about or angry about. So if you feel this fire, it may be a clue that that's your type eight wing that's being activated. Um, uh, why don't we start with you, Brandon? How does the eight wing show up for you in a less healthy way?

Brandon 12:00

Uh, I, I noticed that the statements in my head are off. Then, I'm doing this at all costs, um, where it's just a good indicator for me to go, like, I'm, we're moving ahead, and if you're in my way, that's a bummer for you.

Jeff 12:19

Hmm.

Brandon 12:19

Um, and like, and this, this week I was overlooked. Um, I'm having to move my, my, my staff to a different location and I had to meet with the city to like, um, figure out if, if this was

Jeff 12:33

Mm-hmm.

Brandon 12:35

And, uh, there's a whole backstory to that, that's just a web of mess. And dealing with city government is never usually all that easy or fun. And just in emails and phone calls that aren't returned that I finally meet with these people face-to-face and they are acting like everything is peachy keen, and I just felt overlooked. And I didn't realize it until after I had left the meeting, when I was able to sit still and go, Hey, wait a minute. And I realized then like, I'm going to make this painful

Beth 13:11

Hmm.

Brandon 13:12

That was like one of my first thoughts I had.

Jeff 13:14

awesome.

Beth 13:17

Yeah, kinda like the eight revenge.

Brandon 13:19

advantage of me. Yeah, absolutely. They took advantage of me and my time and my word and. And now, like my first thought was, I, I want to make this painful for them. And I was like, ah, man, that, that's not a fun thought to have.

Jeff 13:33

You know, Brandon, it, it's interesting and, and I'll speak to just our marriage dynamic as well. Oftentimes I experience Beth's eight wing, we call her, um, Regina.

Beth 13:45

Regina. Um, she can be either remarkable. Regina or Regina.

Jeff 13:49

Regina. And so

Brandon 13:50

Reg Regina.

Jeff 13:52

experienced Regina. Uh, we'll, we'll leave out any of the adjectives for now. First, but usually there's, uh, Victoria, her one wing is right behind it. And what's really behind all of that is this accommodating part. Um, for Beth. Do you find that, like when it takes time for the eight part of you to show up or does that present to others first? A as these other processes are happening internally?

Brandon 14:28

It definitely takes time, but once it shows up, it's very present. Um, and my, I know that my language gets less, um, cluttered and very much more

Jeff 14:42

Right. Yeah.

Brandon 14:45

and so in, in, in normal nine speaking patterns, we are, we're very meandering and wandering, but once eight shows up, it's like, do

Jeff 14:55

Yes. Gotcha.

Beth 14:56

Yeah,

Brandon 14:57

period.

Beth 14:58

I, yeah, I, well actually, Laura, let's hear from you. Oh, wait, no. Did we are, did you? No, no.

Jeff 15:04

needs to talk about her. I remember her talking about the we equal opportunity here. Laura has to talk about her character

Beth 15:09

defects. I remember her talking about her, her, her little eight wing, and so I couldn't remember if that was this part or, yeah, that's right. Okay. So Laura, let's hear from you and then I'll divulge all my stuff.

Laura 15:19

Yeah, I was actually saying little eight wing is actually pretty, you know, can be pretty big, you know, especially when it's unhealthy. Um, but yeah, I, I see more of my unhealthy eight wing coming out, more so in, in like a very stubborn streak, you know, I just get kind of very firm and set kind of in my ways and. Um, and, and oftentimes I think the struggle is, is like I internalize that and I don't like it. Like when I, I think that's why it, it takes so long to fester and burn and then kind of like explode. Um, you know, maybe sometimes for me, but I find myself, like if I'm feeling overlooked or if I'm feeling, um, You know, like someone has wronged me or said something in a certain way, like I immediately just kind of get stubborn and kind of shut down. I can feel that internally in me, that fire and it, as much as I dislike it, it's written all over my body language. You, you know, I can feel it coming outta my body language, even though I'm kind of tenderly, you know. I'm technically shutting down. I'm not necessarily saying anything, but I'm saying a whole lot without saying anything, if that makes sense. Um, and so that's where I can kind of see the unhealthy eight in me come out is kind of really when, um, when I withdraw and um, and shut down and get really stubborn and that passive aggressive

Jeff 16:41

Now one of the things that we've come to understand and just in our experience, in our own therapeutic work, uh, but also with, uh, our latest book more than Your Number, is that, uh, these wings have relationships with one another too. Mm-hmm. So, I, I mean, if you think Laura does, how does your one feel about your eight wing.

Laura 17:05

It does not like it at all. It doesn't think that, I mean like it doesn't like it when it's unhealthy because it doesn't think that I'm doing something right. Like I especially like when I know like good communication skills and good healthy communication skills, like it's like I know I'm doing something that is ineffective in essence,

Jeff 17:24

the worst.

Laura 17:25

this one wing, it's like right behind telling me you're doing this wrong. Why? You know, this isn't the right way to communicate. This isn't the right way to have a healthy relationship or do things and. So then it just, that cycle just goes round and round into, okay, so now I'm spiraling, right? Because now I'm bad and, you know, all that other stuff. You know, you just gotta really, really work hard to turn that around and, you know, get back to that true self of

Jeff 17:53

Now, Brendan, it sound like from your story that your eight wing sort of controls the one like, I forget you. I'm gonna do what I want to do anyway.

Brandon 18:03

Yeah, that's, it's the stubborn part of like, we're just doing this. But Laura, I mean, like, it's so well said because my word would be measured for me, like my one is looking at the eight and going like, you know, you can be more measured and you're not, you're letting the, the anger that you don't want to take over, take over.

Beth 18:22

Right? Yep.

Brandon 18:24

Yeah, it's,

Jeff 18:25

mean, what a, there is a, the gift of the eight if, if a nine is always accommodating and reading people. And in, in the midst of that being overlooked by others, it is so neat to know that God has given nines a part of them that's willing to stand up for them and to show up and to speak. Yep.

Beth 18:46

That's true. I know for me, you know, this goes really into our E I P Igram internal profile, which is what's in our book more than your number, is how my connecting parts relate. To one another. And so what usually happens is my accommodating part, my type nine accommodating part is always reading everyone and how do I make everyone happy? And I've worked really hard. I'm actually way more exhausted internally than people realize, um, because I can't let up. But then my sixth part will come in and start thinking about all the relational mishaps that could happen. Cuz it's all about relationships and connection and like, well, what if I do this? Or what if that happens? And so I'm constantly shifting. And then when I get a sense that someone is unhappy, my three is like, see, you're not good enough. You didn't succeed at this great job. You know, now they're frustrated. And then my one will show up and be like, you're not a good wife, or You're not a good mom. You're not a good Ingram coach, or you're not, you know, whatever it is. And it starts berating me in that, in that tone, it's more of a Kurt nitpicky critical tone. And then, After that, the net happens over and over and over again. This is where you don't even know it's happening, right?

Jeff 20:04

I mean, all I said was, would you like a piece of candy? I joking, that's not true,

Beth 20:11

but. So it could be like, let's say, um, when the kids were younger, like, I'm trying to make my kids happy, you know? Yeah. And we're gonna do something fun and we're gonna, you know, I'm trying to think of the best way to do something that causes the least friction, the least whining, you know? And then when, let's say they would whine or get upset or throw a tantrum. Internally, part of me is like, see, you didn't figure this out well enough. You couldn't have made this more peaceable. And then maybe that one comes in and starts to criticize me. But after that happens too much, and let's say the kids were continually whining or upset or the person's upset, then my eight wing shows up and let me tell you, when she shows up, she's had enough. And she's like protecting me. My, my wounded self from not only those externally from me that are doing whatever, but my internal world. So she's plowing over my six, my three, and my one saying, enough's enough back off. And then she's also telling everyone else to back off externally. And no one really enjoys that.

Jeff 21:19

Yeah, I, I don't know if I can remember times when you've told me to back off.

Beth 21:23

I. But you know what I mean? Like it comes across in that passive aggressive, stubborn, I meant that. No, I know,

Jeff 21:28

but viciously. No, that's a good point though. Exactly. When you want me to leave you

Beth 21:33

alone. Well, I know, but what I think it's good for the listeners to recognize. That's so much more is going on. That's the blend of the nine with the eight, right? Is that again, it's like a brick that has a little less bubble wrap around it than the one. It's still like maybe belt

Jeff 21:50

and it's interesting built it covered brick hearing you say that because it's probably the eight that gives the one the permission. To be critical of others, because you would never want to be critical of others. No, I really hate that. But it would finally be like, no, you need to, you need to bring it. I mean, Brandon felt that, right? I mean, when you were with the city and like, no, I, I don't want to tell you that you've messed with me. Well, and there's a

Beth 22:13

healthy way of showing up and defending or helping others, uh, that are marginalized, even ourselves. There's a healthy way of going about that. It's when we. We allow our eight to really, and it can be even shut down, right? Our anger can go that direction of I'm just not gonna talk to you. You know, I'm out of here. So it could be that all the way to really, nines can blow up and we could have a fit of rage. Um, it happens once in a blow moon, but people don't know what to do with that space. And so I think it's just good for listeners to recognize we are trying so hard and get so exhausted by trying to make everyone happy. And we have to learn. That's never possible and that's not our role. And we have to learn how to stop that unhealthy pattern and love others well without accommodating. That's right.

Jeff 23:06

Wow. Well, there you go. The inner workings of a nine. Everybody thought you were just peaceful and they're this, you just. Living in harmony, going with the flow and figur, we make it

Beth 23:15

look easy. But man, there was a, it's a whole thing inside, right? There's a

Jeff 23:19

whole, it's, it's kind of like going to Chick-fil-A, you know? You just, you go and you order your chicken sandwich and you show up on the other side and oh, voila, there's a chicken sandwich, but there's a lot chicken inside and you realize, wow, that took a lot of work. To get me that order quickly. That's, that's the nine months. There's a

Beth 23:35

lot of work going on to make, and at the

Jeff 23:37

end they always say, it's my pleasure.

Laura 23:40

Yeah.

Brandon 23:41

Always,

Jeff 23:41

Always. Good point. Good point. Oh man. Well, Laura, how can people find out more about your coaching and, uh, what you are able to offer in leadership?

Laura 23:51

Uh, they can find me@infiniteclaritycc.com or at Infinite Clarity on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn.

Jeff 23:58

fantastic. Thank you Laura and Brandon, what about you?

Brandon 24:03

I'm over at aim and anchor coaching.com and you can also find me Instagram TikTok. Uh, same name.

Jeff 24:10

Ayman anchor. That's awesome.

Beth 24:11

And you both are on our network, right?

Brandon 24:14

That's

Beth 24:15

So go to myenneagramcoach.com and you can put in Brandon and Laura's name and you can find them there

Jeff 24:21

as well. That would be awesome. So thank

Learn more on our website

Jeff 24:24

you so much. If you really wanna learn more about, uh, wings and all of the things associated with the Enneagram, head on over to yourenneagramcoach.com. If you're looking for a coach, head

Find a coach

Jeff 24:33

over to myenneagramcoach.com where we've got thousand of coaches around the world that are ready to help. And for those of you who want to bless others by becoming a certified Enneagram coach,

Become a coach

Jeff 24:43

our team is waiting to hear from you, to help you to accomplish the dreams that you desire. To use this understanding of yourself and how to serve other people so that they can experience

Beth 24:52

the same. Yep. And that's at yourenneagramcoach.com/bec but as always, the enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder. It is the gospel that transforms us. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time.

Jeff 25:07

we're gonna be talking about type nine and they're wings, uh, which are type eight and type one. The concept of wings is new to you. Check out episode one 60 where we explain in what enneagram wings are, uh, particularly in detail.