Introduction

Jeff 1:11

Hey, well friends, welcome back to the podcast. We're delighted that you've decided to join us. Uh, we're gonna be talking about, um, the centers of intelligence or the triads of the Enneagram. Over the next several, uh, episodes. and we're gonna be actually interviewing some folks that are within that triad. Today we're gonna be talking about the head uh, which is five, six, and sevens which if I'm honest on the Enneagram, symbol that is the best neighborhood to

Enneagram 6 (Head Triad)

Jeff 1:38

be in. Well, why don't we dive into The

Beth 1:41

The 60 world. Okay. here we go, Adam. So for this, don't think we're ever ready.

Jeff 1:49

I woke up this morning. I wasn't ready for it. Yeah,

Beth 1:51

I'm I am.

Adam 1:52

six. Is a six ever? Really ready?

Beth 1:55

Well, actually, your guys are way more than ready. You don't think you are, are you talk with Adam Breckenridge, but when you guys are in the situation, whatever the situation is, you are ready. Like the rest of us are freaking out because we didn't prepare

Adam 2:10

Yeah. Because we did, we did, all our freaking out,

Beth 2:13

beforehand. weeks

Adam 2:15

And then in the, in the moment of crisis, we're, we're calm, cool, and collected.

Beth 2:19

Yeah. Okay, so for the sixes, you guys, you know, when you're healthy, you think systematically and can predict potential problems. You are very loyal and, committed to friends, uh, to family, to those that you know, you have a lot of admiration for. Um, and you look for similar qualities in others to be that for you. And that brings security and with others, But, um, at the beginning, um, like well, when there's a struggle beginning, you can have a lot of doubt that arises and you feel that, oh, I've gotta have, you know, a solid ability ability to make good decisions. But you're not feeling that you have, I should say, you're not thinking, you're not thinking you have the right information. uh, to make those decisions. And so you look outside yourselves for let's say, permission. It's a lot of it's kinda like the common word. I think a think I need permission from an authority figure or a belief system that I trust in to help pave the way, for me to help me know that I'm making a good good And there's this dependency on someone that they trust to help them to feel guided, secured, and supported in the decisions gonna make. Now what's interesting is six is. Um, they actually know the decision they wanna make and so they'll go around looking for someone basically to give them that permission. That's why permission's such a big thing cuz they're, they're, if they talk to three people and two of them are taking them on a different path that they actually weren't gonna make that decision, they kind of discount them like, well, you don't know what you're talking about. And then the person that kind of lands, like in agreement with the six, it's like, okay, good. I got the permission. I'm okay to move forward. And so it's just really interesting how now that's not all the time. If the six really is genuinely curious and has nothing to go off of, of course they're very teachable, but if they do have that intuition inside or that thought process, they wanna move forward. They're really kind of looking for the person to say, yeah, go for it. Um, now you might find, um, that you need someone to protect help you to feel but the sad thing about that The more that they're seeking protection and security from anyone, the more actually they can struggle inside. Because they can start to feel suspicious, fearful, and doubting towards others, even if they're allies or supporters, because they're not always gonna be able to come through for the six in the way that they or they, they feel like they need to. And so all of a sudden it's like, well, can I trust this person? They didn't come through for me last And so it brings up a lot of suspiciousness for the sixes, which creates insecurity. And then they start to feel desperate in in even resources. And so their mind then starts spinning out of control. And where all of this is really coming from Sixes Inner Committee. So the sixes have an inner committee. I mean, we all have, An inner, you know, voice or, um, a way of thinking, but theirs is really loud And it's chiming in from all different, uh, viewpoints. And they're very convincing that all these scenarios could play out and be a catastrophe. so they feel like they have to be mindful of all of it. but they don't know which direction to go to which is actually secure,

Jeff 5:39

security. Like, you nailed it. I mean, that was

Beth 5:41

actually a really good phrase. I was like, well, that came out. I was like that. Okay. Um, so they want to secure security and. who should they listen to and what is the actual And that just, brings up a lot of fear. And so here we're talking about the head triad, triad of, fear or anxiety So, Adam, I'd love to hear from how did this all kind of two, what is that like to experience the inner inner committee, who, like we were with Renee, it's a slippery slope. How does the Inner Committee. you down a of constant worry and new situations you're thinking of that could go wrong? And how do you then navigate

Adam 6:27

It definitely lands. My new phrase, by the way, is gonna be, I'm trying, I'm I'm, I, I am trying to secure security. That's my a new phrase, And I wanna feel safe safely. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, I want to feel, you know, I wanna feel safe safely. It's because It's vulnerable, to actually trust that, okay, I'm, I'm, okay, I'm safe. Um, it all lands, you know, I definitely, I definitely find myself overanalyzing, um, you know, living outta my head, which exaggerates the anxiety. My wife likes to, likes to, say that I have the gift of overthinking. Um, and, uh, but it does, it does fuel the anxiety because, you know And I know hard to stop. how hard you try, you? You can't think everything through, you know, you can't can't think of every possibility. Um, you can't chase everything down, you know, to its possible conclusion. Um, and so a life and anxiety. I think when I'm aligned, you know, with the truth of the gospel, when I'm living in that healthy place, I think that my thinking things through is a gift, honestly. Yeah. You know, it, it, It helps me prepare, you know, let me back up cuz I'm, I'm, I'm, there's so concise, but fear, is a gift in of itself. Mm-hmm. And, and fear can lead to the gift of preparation and wisdom. Mm-hmm. You know, I I, don't, I think I've said this maybe before, but a mentor of mine used to say to me, um, if I'm gonna go to war I wanna go to war people who are afraid. And they know they're afraid because if they're afraid and they're, they're attuned to their fear. They're going to

Beth 8:10

prepare.

Adam 8:11

Sure. they're gonna make sure they have all their ammo and they're gonna make sure they know that their assignment is, everything through Mm-hmm. And they're gonna be prepared. and so fear lead to the gifts of preparation and wisdom. If they're not afraid or they're not attuned to how afraid they actually are, they're gonna go out there on the battlefield with some kind of or something that's gonna get themselves killed and put their, their, their, teammates in a compromising position. Hmm. so I think the, the thinking things through, which is usually coming from a place of fear, be a gift. The problem is, uh, to bring it back to the inner committee, when I misaligned the inner committee is so loud. The voices are so strong and the different scenarios, there are so many. Um, it causes a great deal of anxiety and not only for me, but within my family system. You know, the people who live with me have to tolerate it. um, and you, you asked a question of how do I navigate

Beth 9:17

Well, okay, let's, let's, see if you can think of a scenario, because as a six. What? Okay. I am surrounded by On my team, my husband, my son. You say that went with such joy,

Jeff 9:30

and relief, like it was almost a confession of

Beth 9:33

blessedness. Yes. So my team, you, my son, my best friend, my mom,

Jeff 9:42

I mean, we're probably a lot like fire ants. I remember Richard Roar once saying like, sixes are the most plentiful on the Enneagram. Like we're we're everywhere. Like, you just can't get away from

Beth 9:53

us. Right. But here's what I wanna say, and hopefully this is, this will land on you sixes as affirming. And I say that because it's hard for sixes to receive affirmation. Right? So go go ahead bud. Sixes are some of the most discerning That I know, But they don't believe that they're discerning, so they look outside themselves for security, for truth. And I'm like, But you are the one that has it. I mean, like my mom growing up, I was always astounded by her discernment. Yeah. It doesn't like What does it feel

Jeff 10:27

like? Um, you've got a number of different things going On in your mind, and there's the one thing that you may have shared that that had insight. Mm-hmm. there's 50 other thoughts in and you don't really know what's real and what's not. It's just, there just happened in your head. Well, from the, and so if we might say something like, I'm not even committed to what I said. So it

Beth 10:52

doesn't, But what I would say is, when I'm around you guys and you have this wisdom and discernment, and you actually take a step in that direction and make a decision from that aligned place, it is, profound. So Adam,

Jeff 11:11

well I do have another question

Beth 11:13

Why would you like to hear real quickly, like. Wh when, When, Has there been a time in your life that you can think of off the head where you did have the in, but You ground yourself in and and get aligned and then make the hard make a decision? And not necessarily because you were supported by any one person, but because you knew it. was the right thing to do.

Jeff 11:37

What she's really asking, is Adam working for a nine and a six? When have you not been able to trust our leadership? and have had to lay lead us? I don't know, Adam,

Adam 11:51

When, yeah. yeah. When have I not had Yeah, the clarity? No, the, you know, immediately the, the, the, the low hanging fruit answer is, the, the, scenario that comes to mind is a few years ago I was wrestling with a vo like career transition out of I had done for 20 years. known into joining a team with my friends, uh, called your Ingram coach to take this director of coaching position. And I remember knowing in my gut what I wanted, that I wanted, to do it, I remember. Discerning that this is the, this is the right next move for me, for my family. this is what I want. Um, there was so many voices and and to, uh, both outside of me and inside of me that was speaking into this. And to your point, um, Beth, about sixes or some of the most discerning people, know, I don't disagree with that. And I've experienced that. even in my own experience. the the problem is as soon what I want, I feel irresponsible. If I don't fact check And triple check that Mm-hmm. and quad triple check that. and I, and, and think about it. And it's, you know, people say that sixes on the enneagram are, you know, some people are, ready, fire, aim, you know, and sixes ready. Aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, fire.

Jeff 13:24

forgot to breathe. You gotta at least

Adam 13:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff 13:26

once in a

Adam 13:27

Yeah. Yeah, Exactly. Exactly.

Beth 13:30

Double check everything. Uhhuh.

Adam 13:31

Double check everything. Yeah. And, and, uh, but you know, I remember um, actually my who, brother-in-law that really was a, a game changer for me. Cause I had prayed, I had. Honestly, fasted, uh, asked tons of people, you know, mentors and lots of different people, and I was getting competing voices and I couldn't get a, you know, so it wasn't like there was a collective answer from all these mentors. getting competing, uh, advice on this, on this whole decision. And my my, brother-in-law just said, and I and I know this is, um, perhaps a violent said, you're safe with me. You can say anything you want to me. And I said, yes. And he said, gun to your head, tell me what you want. Mm-hmm. And I, said, I want to, I want to, I wanna work with Beth and Jeff and I want to, you know, that's, this is what I wanna do. and the moment I said it out loud was just, uh, so I, I just, I, I, have to practice trusting you know, Mm-hmm. that's, that's the only me is, and I feel like my, my, type three part helps me do that. My type seven wing helps me do that. Mm-hmm. let's, let's, let's let's take risks and, the seven part of me wants to jump out of the plane, like wants to take the risk, you know,

Beth 14:48

And your nine of course is always, I'm just kidding.

Adam 14:54

The nine is always ready to

Beth 14:56

Yeah, we're just always out there doing

Jeff 15:00

it. Yeah. I can't keep up with Beth. I know.

Adam 15:03

Yeah. yeah, So yes, I, but I, I do receive that affirmation of sixes are discerning. I notice my gut instincts. Um, and, it's just that that inner committee. So there, there's an inner knowing of what I want, Yeah. what I need, what the right thing to do is The inner committee loves to get in the way of that. and I just have to practice silencing those voices and Yeah. taking, taking what I know to be is the right next step. And sometimes I do that. Sometimes the inner committee gets the best of me. Mm-hmm. Um, I hope that's, a, I hope that answers

Jeff 15:36

Well, I I was gonna ask a profound And uh, but I, I wanna make sure, be mindful of our time cuz we have the world of a seven to step into here. Yes. So it was gonna be an amazing question, but, um, whenever our podcast launches It was all a fantasy until it became real A podcast for sixes. Um, you'll have to listen and when it comes out, cuz then I'll ask it on the podcast.

Beth 16:02

It'll be our first episode. These two guys, These two guys have like six or seven different podcasts ready to go.

Enneagram 7 (Head Triad)

Beth 16:07

So the world of sevens. Now, when sevens are healthy, they can do so many things really well, cuz they're quick, they're creative, they have avid minds. But when they start to struggle, they can overextend themselves with more activities and experiences then that they can actually accomplish. And they fear that, that they're going to see or deal with certain kind of pains, anxieties inner turmoil. And because of this, they're gonna flee outside into an active world of things that have, uh, fun and stimulation and experiences that allow their attention to not go internal, but stay external. Where all the fun is, at least it is what they're thinking. Now for sixes, they will fill their minds with all these different exciting options and future plans, again, to avoid those internal anxieties. And their minds become restless and they wanna move from one activity to another. And what's amazing with Sevens is they don't just have one possibility ready. They have multiple possibilities ready. So if they start getting bored in something, oh, they've got plan A through Z, ready to go, And they'll just pick what, which one is the one that sounds the best And they might slip away and go and do that fun activity because boredom is like kryptonite to Um, Now you'll see that they're constantly in forward motion. It's hard for them to be still and to be quiet and to be alone for any length of time because those internal anxieties and realities start to rise up, and they're gonna start to feel trapped facing them. And so they feel desperate to So, Casey, um, can you just describe for, for yourself what that feels like? The first, the internal anxieties, what does that feel like when you start to recognize they're there or you're being forced to see it there? What does What does it feel like in your body or in your mind when those rise

Kasey 18:09

Yeah, it feels like chaos. It feels like there's so many things bouncing around. Um, I'm immediately, like you said, planning something fun. I have to have things to look forward to. When I'm in a moment of heightened anxiety, it almost pulls me back to the present. Like, okay, Friday I have this, I can do this. Um, but it is, it's like chaos. I I resonate a lot with, I think it's in first King's, Elijah, when, you know, God speaks to him and the whisper because he has all these things coming at him, the hurricanes and the fire, and you think you can hear God in the middle of that and he's waiting to that. And it wasn't until there's silence, like absolute silence that he hears God's whisper. And I think that's something for me. That has really been prevalent in my life. Um, like I mentioned earlier about my son having an intellectual disability, um, I was in go mode. I was in forward motion planning all the doctors, um, figuring this out. I was gonna have an answer by the end of, you know, the year. I mean, this was when he was very little and I still don't have an answer, and he's eight. Um, and it was almost God needed to slow me down so that he could speak to me in those moments because I was just out of control of, of my thinking and of myself. Um, Trying to research all the possibilities, trying to figure out something that, you know, I could put an answer to. Um, and he ended up waking me up every night at 2:00 AM for six months. And at first I was angry and then I would just get outta bed and I would sit by the side of my bed and just start praying. And that was when God spoke to me the most. And it was in that silent we early hour mornings Hey, this is the only way I'm gonna get your attention because full of chaos, chaotic thoughts all the time. So that's what it feels like for me. And then that's what I do when I wanna bring it down. It's almost that be still, you mentioned, um, I have that tattooed on my arm. It's a reminder all the time because it's like I have to be I have to actively and intentionally do.

Jeff 20:13

When others come to you and they, they feel that frenetic, chaotic energy from Whether it be a spouse, a friend, a parent, a sibling, uh, how do you Their initiative when they see that you're but maybe you've not recognized

Kasey 20:31

That's a great question. I think I, I honestly probably immediately go to defensiveness, like, I'm not anxious. What are you talking about? This is, I've got all these things to look forward to. I'm, it's, it's a great day. Everything's great. Kind of like inside. It's fine. It's fine. Everything's fine.

Beth 20:46

Well, and actually the, the newest, um, Ted Lasso. That's what he was like, the whole show, the like, wait, So-and-so said that I have, you know, issues. well, of course you do. Like, No, Wait, And they kept going from person to person, kind of like, no, you all got it wrong. Let me ask this person. They, they can see like everything's perfectly fine until he realized there, there is going

Kasey 21:09

There is, and

Beth 21:10

to sit with it.

Kasey 21:11

Yes. I think that's hard for sevens. Um, it's an immediate knee jerk reaction to be like, Nope, everything's great. Um, and clearly that's not, and it takes a moment for you to kind of come full circle and come back to that thought and be like, oh, everything's not really

Beth 21:24

great, and this is why. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jeff 21:26

Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I, isn't that true for all of the head types? When I think about my own research and study, it's an indicator of something else. Although it can be baptized in, oh no, I'm just doing my research. just running up the options, and I'm even recently with challenges that we I find myself predicting, like, preparing for different scenarios in the None of them are great. none, none of them are even good or fine. They're, just

Beth 21:58

are. they are, they're reality. Right. The reality, As all sixes

Jeff 22:04

the least preferred options are the only options that I have, but I can already find myself doing it. Mm-hmm. And, and I also find that, and this gets into our thoughts around the Enneagram internal profile, but the part of my Is also trying to some of the anxiety. So I'm diving into certain types of literature preparation for a book. I'm also trying to have fun by planting, uh, crawfish broils as my wife calls them. Um, this, can you imagine Ronco method? Everyone that 60 pounds of cri

Beth 22:39

crayfish wrong cooking method. That's right. You're gonna start a fire? be cooked for

Jeff 22:44

sure. Um, but all of that is online now. And it could be, you know, it feels okay to me, but actually the nexus behind it is anxiety.

Beth 22:57

Yeah. Mm-hmm. and I'm just curious, uh, Casey, do you feel it as anxiety?

Kasey 23:05

Yeah, I, I don't, and that's the anxiety, like, uh, long time I was like, I, I don't really resonate with anxiety being a struggle. it's It's fear It's fear of, um, the unknowns. fear of pain and and missing out completely. Fear of missing out. Um, but my, my emotions are always stemmed from the fear of something. and I think for me personally, it's, it's always pain. Like I don't wanna feel any pain, um, relationally any way at all. I mean, as a mom, you know, and your kids, I mean, there's a million things every day that we can have and feel pain. Um, and first seven, that, that is absolutely my, my greatest fear. I don't see it quite as anxiety, differently to me. I don't know. it's like an anxiousness

Beth 23:54

mm-hmm.

Kasey 23:55

I don't feel like I have

Beth 23:56

that. I And I think a lot of sevens actually. Agree with that Especially I would say sevens with eight wings. You know, I think sevens with, I mean we all have both wings, but ones that experience more of the six wing, I think they can feel the anxiety more physically. Whereas I think for you as a seven who leans more heavily into the eight might not actually feel the physical anxiety, but the fear is there, the mental, Like, oh, that, that's not gonna be a place so I'm gonna jump out over here into a much more happy, and that's the thing that's so amazing about Sevens is resilience and, Um, you know, a big difference that you can, like when people are like, am I a three or am I a seven? Well, three is, there is and sevens, it's like, no, it's just a new opportunity. You know, like, like there's, there's a million things we can do with this failure, like, let's try something else. And, um, that, so that resilience that the is really remarkable And, I think, I hope that what,

Jeff 24:55

I'm just curious, Adam. Um, do you ever think about things, mistakes being opportunities or like I had a number of ways that I knew I was gonna fail and I slipped into opportunity.

Adam 25:09

No, I, didn't, stumble into opportunity. No, the first, first

Beth 25:16

I'm assuming that's not what you're thinking

Jeff 25:18

of. Oh, I mean, I only think about the mistakes. Yeah. only the mistakes.

Adam 25:27

I've compromised the fam I'm, this is bad. It's good. Yeah. The

Jeff 25:30

I, I seriously had a pastor one time tell me, um, cuz it just church inner workings and conflict. And I said, I'm, I think I'm, the reason why this church isn't growing. And this great older veteran pastor you're not that important. It was so comforting my heart, like, thank you.

Beth 25:55

I'm not that bad. It's not just on you. Um, yeah. So I, you know, when, when I think about the head triad, you know, and how. and how. guys operate? I think the one thing that a lot of the stuff that we're talking about here sounds very negative, but we also really wanna show the beauty of how God has put us in these different categories to operate out of. And yes, we wanna be mindful of how we can, you know, go down a, a slippery slope and in into areas that are not helpful, but, You guys are able to bring such wisdom and insight from thinking through and being very mindful and gaining, um, whether it's gaining knowledge, gaining wisdom, gaining guidance, um, experiences. And so I just wanna, I want everyone that's listening to not just hear this podcast as we're putting the head triad down. We're highlighting yes, certain things that can trip you guys up, but man, you have so much to offer and we're so thankful for what you guys have to

Jeff 26:54

offer. us. It is great to hear, I mean, uh, we, we hear about the stereotypes and the different descriptions of each of the different types, but to actually hear from your story about how it shows up in your life mm-hmm. How we can love and serve those of different numbers that we have relationships with. So you. you're a real gift and we're, we're incredibly

Beth 27:11

grateful. Well, could you guys just tell us where people can find you? and They might be interested in having a type five coach, or a seven coach. or a six coach. Yeah. Can you tell us, uh, where they can find you? We'll start with, uh, Renee. That's awesome. Thank you, Adam.

Adam 27:47

Yeah, so go to the, go to our wonderful worldwide directory, my engram coach.com, where you'll find Uh, a lot of amazing coaches, uh, uh, if you're looking for coaching, but you can also, uh, find me in our listed in our directory. Um, or you can just, you can find me on Facebook, you can find me on Instagram, or you can always shoot me an email at adam@yourenneagramcoach.com.

Beth 28:10

Great. And then Casey, what about you?

Jeff 28:23

Oh, and did you say The Joyful and Wild. Mm-hmm. Joyful. Joyful

Beth 28:30

Wild. Joyful wild. Ooh,

Adam 28:31

joyful Wild. I

Jeff 28:32

love that. That's epic. Nailed it. Yes. It's Absolutely. I love it. Who wouldn't want a coach like

Beth 28:39

that?

Jeff 28:42

Oh man. I mean, I don't, I mean, people would call Adam and I, Adam and I wild, but I don't know if people would say it's joyful.

Adam 28:49

Definitely Wild,

Jeff 28:51

Definitely

Adam 28:52

Definitely wild.

Beth 28:53

man. Well, thank you guys so much for sharing your insights, your experiences in being a part of the head triad and just giving an insight for everyone to understand what it's like, uh, for a five, six, and seven to be a part of the head triad. Thank you So much.

Adam 29:08

thanks for having us.