Enneagram 3

Beth 1:11

Let's move into, uh, the type threes now, type threes again. You guys are in the heart center and you're probably thinking really because, and it's not because it's so fu

Jeff 1:22

threes don't have a heart there.

Beth 1:24

Well, they do have a heart, but they do, they do. What's so fascinating about the threes is their ability through kind of ways of survival when they were younger, is they felt that they had to be the most admired, successful, accomplished, uh, person, whether in their family, their school, their sports, their, you know, musical instruments, whatever they were doing, they really felt this need. To appear successful and then be admired and, and told how great they were doing because that's how they would feel loved. But the problem is that shifts with every group you're with, right? So your family's gonna think this is amazing, but then maybe your coach over here thinks something different is amazing, your youth group, and so on and so forth. So the threes are constantly assessing situations of what does this group person, um, environment think is the most, uh, Awesome, uh, uh, the most admired, high status, great image for that particular situation. And then they learn to shapeshift or, um, become more like that in order to gain the affirmation. So in order to do that, though they are, they've taught themselves, um, to naturally put their feelings, um, aside and their, their authentic identity to become whatever it would be to be admired in that group setting. And that it just naturally happens. But that's hard because then they have a harder time than bringing up and accessing what are their true feelings? What are their true emotions? What's their, um, true identity, their authentic self? Um, and so that's a hard process. And what I've heard from threes is when they do try to go there, it feels so, a lot of people are like, oh, they're just, you know, surface level people. Um, because they're just shapeshifting a lot and they're not being authentic, they're not being honest. Um, but what we wanna understand about a three is to get to those authentic emotions and their authentic, um, identity from a genuine place. It feels, and if you're watching this on YouTube, you can kind of see my hands. It feels like they're coming from where they're at and they're having to free fall as if like they're falling into a well and they have no idea where that well will end. And they're just free falling into this blackness. And it is very scary cuz they don't know what this is gonna mean for them. They don't know where they're going. What do other people think? This has been their whole world and they would rather not have that experience. And so they typically move back up to the surface of where they can shape shift and just put on an image. Cause they know it works. They know they're gonna get kind of like quote unquote a hit of love through achieving, um, Versus taking the time to allow themselves to rest in the, the gospel, rest in the love and the admiration that God has for them because of how he created them and what he has done through them, which is that free fall. And then they land into the knowing, the full knowing of, oh my gosh, I am love for simply being me. I don't have to do all this stuff. Like, he sees me fully and accepts me like, and that fall is so hard for them because it's just too scary. But when they get there, that genuine self emerges. So my, does this sound remotely true for you? And if so, what? What comes to mind?

Mike 5:01

Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, I can think of so many times where it's so funny the way even you describe the struggles of a three, but also part of me actually really enjoys the thought of achieving, even as you're talking. Um,

Beth 5:18

is, I mean, it's, it's a both, right? Like, it's there, it's two sides to one coin, like we want you guys to achieve. You guys are so phenomenal at motivating, achieving, encouraging, um, making things better. Like we want that. And at the same time, it can also be a detriment to you, just like we were talking with Megan, with taking on people's feelings. Um, so, sorry, go ahead.

Mike 5:39

No, you're right. And even as we were, uh, as Megan was talking about shame, I was just thinking about even my own. You know, story, think about the wounded child and just kind of my, uh, why. Um, so, or at least as I've been walking through life, the proclivities I have towards why I value certain things. So, for example, you know, I was an athlete, but it was never enough for me just to be a good athlete. I always was comparing, am I the best athlete?

Beth 6:06

Mm-hmm.

Mike 6:07

And if I wasn't, then I had to double down and work super hard at, and that was my gauge.

Beth 6:14

Because of what? Like what, why, what, was like maybe as a kid, what was your thought? Like, well, if I'm not the best and I have to work harder because

Mike 6:23

yeah, so some of that is my own growing up. So I was born with a cleft lip and palate and just, you know, the, you can imagine for a three as a young kid, all the kids kind of pointing out, uh, a birth defect that you have. It just reinforced that I'm not accepted, I'm not loved. But I was a good athlete. I could, I was more, usually more athletic, faster, taller, stronger than most kids. And so that was my end is to, at whether recess, whether it was with sports teams, I'm gonna be the best. And I just can't be good because to get in that circle, to be accepted, to be approved by other people, I have to accomplish and kind of do different things. And you know, that, uh, played its way through, through a host of different things as I was growing up. But even as I became a Christian, you know, my freshman year of college, then I found myself, you know, taking a Christian form of different things. You know, even though I knew I was accepted to Christ, I learned very quickly coming into a certain Christian group, okay, here are the practices I need to do. Here's, here's how good I need to perform. And then I'll get affirmed by these people. I value in the Christian community too, and.

Jeff 7:36

Mike, I, I don't think I've ever shared this with you, but, uh, so I had been loosely tied to a church growing up. They would invite me to VBS and youth camps and, and I'd usually make a profession of faith and want to turn my life around, uh, at each of them. But, uh, It, it wasn't until my, I, I don't remember That was a junior or sophomore year. Probably sophomore year. No, it was probably junior year. Yeah. Um, but I, I just, I, I was trying to go get a date with a girl who went to that church and, um, so I went to church that Sunday and my parents were like, I, I'm gonna land on the planet. It relates to three, but, um, I'm not trying to tell my high school dating, uh, history, but it didn't work out. And, but I sat there in the church service and, uh, Jesus showed up and like the scales fell off. My heart was free. Uh, rose went forth and followed the right. Um, I, man, I just quoted that, that's

Beth 8:36

one of my favorite songs. And can it be here?

Jeff 8:40

Oh, there you go. Good job. Um, so I go out to my car, I take out my Metallica Master of Puppet's cassette tape. Um, And this is my sinner's

Beth 8:53

prayer. Your three part came out shining.

Jeff 8:55

This is my sinner's prayer. God, I'm gonna be the best you've ever seen.

Mike 9:06

That's

Jeff 9:07

But, but I mean, I totally took, I mean, you know, there's all kinds of meaning that go into that. Like, I really wanted this, this is my new self now. Yeah. But it, it was taking this performance mentality into Christianity now that where even our faith can actually be a symptom of our performance, heart performance.

Beth 9:28

And with that, what I'd love to hear in kind of relation to the heart triad with that is, Mike, tell us what it's like when you see those aha moments of, oh, I'm gonna get praise or accolades or, um, be admired if I take on this image. What is it like when you have that aha moment and you then your inner world goes, oh, well then I need to move that other image to the side, or my authentic self to the side, or my emotions are gonna get in the way so I can get to that place. What, what does that feel like internally to shut off emotions and your identity?

Mike 10:07

Yeah, I, uh, it's so when I'm struggling, it's funny cuz I, I wanted, I feel like I've been seeing it in two ways and one way I actually wanted to ask you about, but the first way, um, I've, I've seen it, is I literally just inwardly think, okay, let's shut this down and then just go accomplish this or do this. Like, you can do this, of course you're gonna do this like this and you know, It's gonna feel really good.

Jeff 10:30

strong of a pivot. It's like, okay, done.

Leah 10:34

Hmm.

Mike 10:35

Yeah. There have just been times where I felt, you know, uh, whether it's I'm gonna be exposed or whether, you know, um, these people are gonna say this about me or whatever, I can just emerly like, okay, it's time to take that box, close it, set it on the shelf, and you know, you just gotta get to work and go do this thing. And, um, and you know, in those times, I think, I feel, I feel inwardly clouded a lot is, the way I describe it, is that my thoughts are, I feel a sense of hurry. So if, you know, I have a tell Tracy, um, and even my staff team, if I feel like I'm talking faster or if I feel like I'm in a hurry, it's because inwardly I'm feeling a, like something's happening where I'm feeling shamed or I'm gonna be exposed. And so I'm just trying to accomplish something to like suppress those feelings.

Megan 11:30

Hmm.

Mike 11:31

like the box is like popping open that I've tried to set aside. Um, but that's usually what's happening for me is that I feel super clouded. Um, just even in my thinking and, um, speaking. But the other way I've seen it, uh, read more recently pop up is, um, I've been accessing that almost like when I need to for motivation. So I set it aside and I'm like, okay, well they're gonna say this about me, but I don't know if it's like the athlete in me where it's like, they're gonna say this about me, so let's get that and I'm gonna go prove them wrong. You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna go

Beth 12:08

So It's a, motivator. It's

Mike 12:09

it's a motivator and then I'm gonna rub it in their face and they're gonna say this and this about me.

Beth 12:16

I love that. so funny as you guys are talking, cuz um, it'll be interesting with, with lax, cause I don't have as much like, cuz we use online types. I don't have as much four, but obviously when, um, Megan was talking about the one and the three, those were connected to me and Mike, as you're talking, I'm like, oh my gosh. Like the, I was just thinking when you were like, I'm in a hurry when we're at the airport.

Jeff 12:39

Oh man, she is like, zippy. Like, I'm, I don't even know why you're like, you're almost running even. I'm like,

Beth 12:46

I don't even know. I'm like, we have just, we have got to go and, and like I'm a nice, I'm kind of a slow like, you know, meandering kind of person usually, but when I'm in the airport, it is like I leave my family behind. It's like we are going, she will sprint

Jeff 13:00

to the gate. And then we get there and it's like, well, what,

Megan 13:03

So

Jeff 13:03

were

Beth 13:03

you in a hurry for? Yeah. And then we have like an hour and a half, you know, it's

Megan 13:07

Hurry up to

Beth 13:08

but when you're, when you're talking about that, Mike, I'm like, I totally know what you're talking about now. That's not who I am all the time, you know? Cause three is not, you know, my primary type. But when you were saying, I was like, yes, I know that part. Like, it, it, it comes up and sometimes I don't even know what it's afraid of. What is it running towards and why is it running away from something? Usually it's like, well, I don't wanna miss the plane, you know? Of course. Then my six is probably showing up going, well, here's all the things that could go wrong. And the three's like, well, I gotcha. Let's go. You know? Um, but just as you're talking, I'm like, yes, I know what that part is. I can, I can feel it. So I'm hoping that the, the listeners can realize that though. We're talking to a two, three, and four. How do these parts, if they show up very much, how do they show up in your life? So I just kind of wanna highlight that real quick. Well,

Jeff 13:52

and you just to speak to the gift of the three to be able to pivot.

Beth 13:57

Yes. It's

Jeff 13:58

amazing. I mean, I don't, I mean, compartmentalize has negative connotations to it, but I'm assuming Megan, like whenever you're going down a shame spiral and you've gotta kind of get yourself together to reengage that three part of you learning how to overcome the tsunami of emotions and just move forward actually is a gift. And Leah, I'm assuming for you that people associated you with the three, from what you said earlier,

Leah 14:26

Mm-hmm.

Jeff 14:27

it's a strong part of you that helps you to get organized despite what you may be feeling to be able to move forward in your calling? Yeah. Would, would either Megan or Leah, would you get like to comment on that?

Megan 14:40

Yeah, Jeff. So that example I gave of Saturday, there was like I was going in the shame I shouldn't have, should have. And it was actually, I didn't think about it in this way, but I think it was the three wing. I realized I had to make a decision, but I was like, Ooh, I don't know. Cuz I don't know what they think. Cuz we two care a lot. I think a lot the feeling tri cares a lot about what people think. And so I finally, I like made a time cuz I was about to be an analysis paralysis and I had to be like, Megan, what would you do if you weren't afraid? And so I think that in a some way was maybe the three being like, Hey, it's okay. Like, you know, you can do it. We gotta, we gotta keep moving forward. So that, yeah, that's I think an example of how the three was like, Hey, we're gonna do it and we're gonna do it. Afraid it's probably okay.

Leah 15:22

Hmm.

Beth 15:23

Yeah, I love that. And Leah, what about

Jeff 15:24

you?

Leah 15:26

Yeah, absolutely. I was actually just thinking, um, when I first learned the Enneagram, it was at, um, the church where I was on staff. We went through the Enneagram and I was misdiagnosed. Misdiagnosed, what am I saying? Mistyped as a three.

Jeff 15:38

Yeah. That's a Freudian slip. Let's be honest.

Mike 15:40

Diagnosed.

Jeff 15:41

You've always known there was a problem.

Beth 15:46

I love that.

Leah 15:46

man. Anyway, my pastor, our senior pastor said that's why I hired her. She's gonna get this job done. And I was starting a study center with another staff member. And so like, my ability to get things done, my ability to accomplish things, it's like up on my strengths finder. Um, and so, um, that's really strong. I mean, but I do the, the emotion, the shift emotionally. Um, it's been interesting and I'll go into that, um, has, I've actually think I showed up as a self press. For, for a long time. Um, and that has kind of shifted. So I think I really did know how to show up and, um, and do what needed to be done. Especially if somebody gives me a goal, I can meet that goal. Like I, I know what I need to do and I can, I can get there if I have to establish the goal myself. It's a little bit more tricky.

Jeff 16:42

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, Mike. Um, and as it relates to emotions, so we. Developing emotional intelligence, learning how to name, uh, and address what we're feeling. Uh, everybody has it, but four, A three does it, do you ever sort of misapply emotional intelligence where it becomes mu more like you're accomplished in your ability to name your emotions? Like, man, I am the best at emotional intelligence.

Mike 17:15

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it is funny, even the thought of healing, I've thought about this a little bit, that I think of healing as a path like this. It's just, it's, well, that's what it means to heal is you've

Beth 17:28

is that, I mean, that's pretty much your everything in life, right? It has to, and, and for those who are listening, he is showing a upward trajectory like on a graph, you know, like we are, that is moving towards a hundred percent

Megan 17:40

up.

Beth 17:41

success.

Mike 17:43

um, I was actually talking to the pastor of our, our care, um, here, and he was just talking about, you know, walking through challenges with people, and particularly in our family as, as we walk through ministry struggles. And he said, Mike, you wanna run, but are you willing to just walk with your family? Uh, she needs to walk. And I thought, uh, I don't know. So,

Beth 18:09

Well, I mean, that's like, yeah, in the airport,

Jeff 18:12

you know what running's good for your body, so maybe should all be running. But,

Beth 18:16

but it's kinda like, you know, like, like Mike and I in the airport were, is like taking off, leaving our family behind and not realizing it, but also thinking there's a good reason for it. Like, well, we don't wanna be miss the plane or we don't wanna miss the goal or the image or whatever it is. Um, and so what was that, what was that like to reflect on that question? Like what came up for you?

Mike 18:37

I think it was a sense of, um, vulnerability, uh, probably is the best word of like you, I think I'm running because it just to, to be, to walk or to wait or to feel any of these emotions feels vulnerable to me. And like you're saying, like I just wanna shut that off and perform cuz that's how ultimately I think I'm gonna be accepted. But it's, but it's interesting because, you know, if we think about even the gospel and what Christ has done and how it's worked in my own life, is that like, just to face it, like, you know, Jesus says, bless, serve those who mourn. Like, I think just like the reality of facing, you know, my failures, but not only that, just facing the shame and guilt and realizing that I have the resources of the gospel and that I'm united to Christ like that, that's who I am. And I think even as a leader and follower of Jesus, that what I've, and this has probably been one of the biggest points of growth over the next last few years for me, is that, Not running from that, but sitting in that and realizing, okay, like, but I'm still loved and accepted in Christ, and then that actually propels me outward instead of, then I'm propelled through the strength of Christ rather than my own strength. So then I don't over function as a leader and I'm much more secure. I feel like that would probably be the biggest word that I think my family and those are my staff team would say, is that, you know, as I've walked through some of these things, they've done just a more secure leader. I'm not like operating out of all that.

Jeff 20:05

we talked about this with Megan earlier, that when she's feeling the most insecure, sometimes it comes across as more confidence. And for threes, I think everybody just assumes like they're confident. They're secure in who they are, and they can run. When in reality, um, and I think, you know, my good friend Travis in St. Louis, but we saw a guy running, uh, on the highway next to the seminary. Oh, that's right. Uh, he wasn't on the highway. He was on a service road. And, and then like just a second later, a cop car drives by, uh, with its lights on and Travis says, you know what? We admire those who are running, but we never ask what are they running from? And, and it, when hearing you say like, you know, at times it, it feels like, yeah, I'll, I'll portray confidence, but inwardly I'm actually very afraid. And, and just one last thing and we'll go to type four. You know, Mike, your, your willingness to engage in your heart has been a gift to our son. Yeah. As you shepherded him from experiencing spiritual harm. And still having a desire to serve Christ within ministry and then mentoring him for a year. Like I, I, you know, as a father, I want to be all things for my kids and the be and, and I never can be. But the Lord has put men like yourself in Nate's life that have had significant, um, uh, blessings in his life for healing. And so I, I'm just grateful for the work that you've done. It, it has mattered. So if, if you need another trophy, the McCord family is a trophy on your shelf about doing the work and blessing our children and helping them a along the way in their own

Beth 21:59

stories. So I think that's what's so. Awesome about when we, cuz the Enneagram often when we start learning it or reading it and when we're not in a good place in our heart, we just see everything that's negative about ourselves and highlight. Right? And, and it's just like blaring at us and then we get into those shame cycles or criticism cycles. Um, but a lot of times we miss the beautiful side of our type. And I remember when we were first learning about the anagram, I would, there was one book that talked about all the different nine levels of health and. I looked at the, the healthiest levels and I'm like, that's not even close to where I'm at. And, but I was like, wait a second. But that's still who God created me to be and how to reflect him. So I'm just gonna take the time to pray these things over myself and knowing that God will work those in me in his due

Jeff 22:55

time. It was very interesting. Beth would walk through the house, uh, people listen to my voice.

Beth 23:00

I did not all it

Jeff 23:01

matter to people. I did not like, well, sure Beth.

Beth 23:05

She didn't do that. Like, I'm embarrassed just you even say that. I'm like, I would never do such a thing. Um, my voice matters. Um, but in all seriousness, I think it's important that. We all recognize when God has worked in, in, through us, that it is not about ourselves pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps and fixing ourselves. It's about us surrendering, depending on him and the work Christ has done in and through us. Um, now and moving forward. And I, Mike, that's truly what, cuz I know we could sit here and we could say goods, Mike, good job. You know? Um, but ultimately I think what we're saying is we've seen you as a three humble yourself recognizing your need for the cross and your need to be authentic and real, and that you're safe in that which gives you the, the gives other people security and safety in you. And so anyway, I just hope that other threes will, will hear that as well. Ready for type

Jeff 24:04

four?

Enneagram 4

Jeff 24:05

Ready for type four? All right. I mean, is Leah ready for type four? I don't know,

Leah 24:09

ready.

Jeff 24:10

but you're getting pretty personal here, Beth. This

Beth 24:12

is a, yeah, it's a good one. This is a good

Leah 24:14

Hmm.

Beth 24:16

Yeah. So fours, you know, being in the heart triad, um, they have no feelings. No kidding. No, I mean, it's the complete opposite. Fours feel all of their feelings and then some, um, the highs and the lows and everything in between. Um, and they're constantly searching for depth intensity, beauty, um, whatever's authentic and real, um, is really where they wanna go. Now, for them, they struggle with the feeling of shame, and this is where they feel that others aren't able to see who their most authentic self is. That they have a special quality about them and that they're misunderstood. And being misunderstood is really hard on them because it feels like they don't belong. Um, that they are somehow an outsider and they. And in order to get others to see the significance of what they offer the world in, in something creative, unique. And it's not creative. Like, we're not talking about like always being an artist and a painter. It's unique in whatever, uh, field or passion you have, um, to

Jeff 25:25

know, well, our lead pastor in Illinois mm-hmm. His was sermons. Yeah. And it was his, the pastoral counseling that he offered people was his biggest expression

Beth 25:34

of who he was. Mm-hmm. Yeah. His unique value, his creative, um, ability to see people in a, in a different way. So for the fours, again, they have all of these emotions and, um, and you know, I always talk, talk about how fours, it's like, you know, the, the lottery machine with all the ping pong balls in it. Mm-hmm. Well, They have all of these emotions inside. They're very aware of what these emotions are. And if you would love to know those emotions, like, Hey, what are you feeling right now? Um, they're kind of wondering, do you really wanna know? Like, are you going to take the time to really listen and understand me? Or are you just, is this just kind of platitudes? Because for the four they can see all of these ping pong balls in there that have emotions and they can take one at a time and nuance it and talk about it and share with it. But they wanna know that you are going to receive it. That, that they have a place that they can belong and be cherished in their. That they can captivate the audience with beautiful Beau Beauty and Depth. Um, but the emotion of shame can well up because they feel as if they're defective and flawed, that there's something wrong, that others can't understand them. And that really sets 'em on a trajectory of going more inward into their emotions and into these kind of fantasy worlds or emotions that aren't actually happening. And they think that that's reality, um, versus being able to sit with what actually is happening. And so they may then project those fantasy emotions onto other people thinking that that is what they feel, which then can heat more shame and more withdrawal. Um, so Leah, how does this land on you?

Leah 27:20

That's a lot. I mean, I just having you explain it, it's like the weight of all of that. I feel it on my chest right now. Like, um, if I were to try to. Like, describe that on a regular basis to how things are going? Like, um, like it just feels very heavy. Um, it's not always very heavy, but um, there are times where that shame spiral, um, becomes the only thing that I can see, and that's when it's really scary. Um, and so my thoughts, um, I, I think depth is a word I've used and overused. I actually was writing a book and someone reviewed the manuscript and they're like, you can't use the word deeply anymore, or depth or deep, like to cut that out. And I was like, I didn't even realize I was doing that. Um,

Beth 28:08

Mm-hmm. Well, and that's what's interesting real quick, is that each type has its own lexicon. Their own, the own words they use a lot. So fours use depth and beauty and authenticity and uniqueness. And what, what I say about that, and I would, sorry, cut you off, but, so the fours will say they're intellectual. The fives would say that they, um, are intelligent and the sixes would say they're smart they all kind of mean the same thing. But each of those words has a more specific meaning that feels true for how they view the world. And so depth and beauty and longing really captures a lot of the forward. Is that true?

Leah 28:46

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Longing is a word that, um, I resonate with. Constantly, like, I'm always thinking there's something missing. Um, or like, things are not quite the way I want it to be or that it should be. So I'm looking for, um, like it's, it's good for pulling out like the redemptive qualities and things or like, we're gonna, we're gonna move forward from where we are. But if I can't find that, then I start to believe that nothing is going well or can go well. And, um, and most often that is has to do with myself and like who I am and seeing that something's missing in me. Um, I really re related to Brene Brown's, um, description or a definition of shame as being there's something wrong with me. Uh, because that, that's what resonates, that's exactly how, um, that's how I felt for a very long time. And I can go there pretty quickly if I'm struggling.

Beth 29:45

And then do you find yourself moving out in the world when that happens? Or retreating n word. And what? What's the typical pattern?

Leah 29:54

I definitely withdraw. Um, I will stop trying to put myself forward, um, if I'm struggling and if that shame is, is there. So, um, it's a growth step for me to move forward, to put myself out in the world. And really I've learned that like my body, I need to engage my gut. I need to engage my body physically in order to move emotionally forward. So whether that's exercise or I learned from KJ Ramsey, um, tapping or, you know, some sort of something that gets me out of my head and out of my heart so that I can process it at a d at a different level. Um, because otherwise I will just sit, sit in my head with the same thoughts going on and on over and over again if I'm struggling.

Jeff 30:43

That's when you say that, Leo, I was watching a TV series yesterday and this guy was in a mirror. He was upset cuz he had failed or had been betrayed and he was contemptuous for himself for allowing the betrayal to happen. But he started slapping himself in the face. And I thought, you know, there's another way to engage in your body like that. You could gently tap on your forehead, you could go on a walk. I mean,

Leah 31:11

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff 31:12

there, there is something physiological that can, that needs to happen in order to help us kind of get out of these patterns of thinking and feeling

Leah 31:25

I'm so grateful that God has given us these bodies to be able to move forward in that way. Even if it's just cold water or something, stepping outside, changing the environment like these things can shift me

Jeff 31:37

Yeah, we saw TikTok, uh, Beth sent it to me cuz I think she assumes that I'm always anxious. It's an assumption though. Um, that's supposed to be a joke, uh, because I typically am, I don't even know what I'm anxious about yet, but I'm sure

Beth 31:51

I am. Or you're anxious that you're not anxious. Yes.

Jeff 31:54

Oh, no, that'll

Leah 31:55

There you go.

Jeff 31:55

that, that, yeah. Uh, but it was like this guy was saying like, Hey, if you're ever overwhelmed with anxiety, put your face in a bowl of ice water and it'll, it'll just knock you out of it. I, no, it is ice water, so why

Beth 32:11

not? Well, but it also, what it does, Like physiologically. Yeah, that's right. It, it kind of, and it's this, I think that's what people, when they talk about grounding or you know, like even meditating, like whether it just on scripture or prayer or, you know, lots of different things. It, it takes you out of that spiral, that, um, shame cycle or, uh, what is it, analysis paralysis or rudimentary. Mm-hmm. Um, and it gets you out of that and you can then kind of choose a different path of, of going. Now, Leah,

Jeff 32:42

how did your family relate to your emotions?

Leah 32:45

up, uh, I would say they didn't always understand. Um, I don't necessarily know that they knew what to do with my tears. Um, so I learned to take them into private. Um, and so oftentimes, especially my teenage years, so maybe I shouldn't say the whole time, but like as a teenager, I would take that into my bedroom and alone, um, quite a lot. And, um, so they didn't actually even really know cause I really ended up dealing with depression and they didn't know how, how hard I was experiencing it at that

Jeff 33:20

What types were your parents?

Leah 33:22

Type one and type five.

Jeff 33:24

Oh, yeah.

Leah 33:25

So my mom's a one and my dad's a

Beth 33:27

Both very logical

Jeff 33:28

types. Yeah. They may

Leah 33:28

very logical. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so, um, yeah, it's just like not the world they live in.

Jeff 33:35

Right. What would've been helpful to hear from them?

Leah 33:39

I think it would've been really helpful to know that even if I'm having feelings, like I belong and, um, it's okay to cry, um, because I didn't quite receive that. Um, actually I

Jeff 33:54

Well, so just having

Leah 33:55

I'm trying to be nice.

Jeff 33:56

it excluded you.

Leah 33:58

yeah. It just, it, they didn't know what to do with it. I'm the oldest of five girls as well, so I saw their overwhelm, I think, with that. And their parents were sick and, um, and so I, I kind of removed myself eventually too, just kind of was like, all right, this isn't, this isn't helpful and I don't wanna add something else to there. So I moved to the, like, the two in stress

Jeff 34:21

Mm-hmm.

Leah 34:22

um, definitely just pulled myself away

Jeff 34:25

So even for yourself though, you had messages, you were believing about that My emotions are not helpful to the family.

Leah 34:31

right. Yes.

Jeff 34:33

Wow. Yeah.

Leah 34:34

Yeah, and I really resonate with, I am too much, not enough. Like that flux is, um, that, that statement, Beth, that you give is really helpful in just helping me even identify what am I experiencing right now That's difficult. Like, am I feeling like I'm being too much or, or do I feel like I'm not enough? Like be, that helps ground me as well

Jeff 34:57

yeah. Now, Leah, do you read people and around that idea that, oh, they just gave me that, this look, so they must think I'm too much, or they just gave me this look. And even before the situation even happens.

Leah 35:12

Yeah. I will anticipate things going wrong, um, or, you know, people not accepting me. Um, but then also in the moment it's, I take it very personally, a look or something. If I'm really struggling, um, I work to, to not do that, but that can be an, an

Beth 35:29

So, uh, as we kinda wrap this up, you know, we kind of talked about different ways that the gospel has really helped us to get out of these states and how we were created to reflect Christ. And so the great thing about fours is you guys are the bodybuilders of emotions, meaning you, you can handle a, a wide range of emotions. You're not afraid of it. Um, you move towards it, you know, so when people are struggling and sorrowing grief or even have highs, like you are able to engage in that, you're not afraid to go there, um, which is really beautiful. And at the same time, what we've noticed is those highs and lows like you were just talking about, can be too much. Um, cuz a lot of times when fours are feeling they don't belong or they're flawed, they will try to project a unique image that hopefully others will then be like, oh my gosh, that's, you know, beautiful and like the word here, captivating. And then they're like, oh, you get me. Um, But I would love to focus in on with the, with emotions and how amazingly God has equipped you to be in emotions. What it also looked like for Christ to be in emotions. So for fours, because we're humans and you know, we're on this side of heaven, those emotions again, can be either genuine and true and helpful to others, or they can be self-focused and temperamental and overwhelming. Whereas Christ is our great representative of what it's like to deal with emotions and. I think the Garden of Yosemite is such a great place to see how emotions are wonderful. They're beautiful. They like, he had so many emotions and so much stress that he was sweating blood. And so he didn't shy away from it. He entered it fully. He could have been like, I'm out. Like I don't wanna do this. But he, not only did he enter the emotions, but he exhibited the highest quality of four, which is equanimity. So we're not saying Jesus is a four, but he just, he showed emotional balance. So that, what that means is we're not getting rid of emotions, we're embracing the emotions, but we're not allowing it to control us. And that is what, how Christ represented emotions so well. Can you tell us like what it's been like to move into that healthier place to still feel emotions but it not, um, take hold of you?

Leah 38:00

Yeah, I spent a long time feeling like my emotions were controlling me, and when I learned the concept of equanimity, it felt very freeing. Like I can actually experience the end of the emotion. So rather than like, I'm learning to, to experience my emotion and learn from it and go, what is it trying to tell me here? What am I, what's the message I'm hearing? Really taking through aware, like I learned a different process before learning aware with you, um, but really

Jeff 38:30

pretty awesome, so I don't know if you like,

Leah 38:32

very helpful. I use it. Yeah, but just this, what am I feeling? What am I thinking? What's the story I'm telling myself and listening to my emotion? Cuz that will tell me what's going on rather than believing that what my emotion is telling me is the truth about my situation. So the emotion, if I'm feeling like everything's going wrong and. Um, I'm believing people don't love me. Well, maybe I'm stressed about something that happened specifically. Maybe I can explore that a little bit with some curiosity and, and see if it's actually true. And usually I can find some sort of pattern that, um, that I've, I've known over time that, oh, that's what's happening. I was triggered because I felt like, um, I felt like I really screwed something up with work or, um, my husband looked at me and probably didn't see me the way I wanted him to. And so now I think he doesn't love me. Well, really he does. So like, just letting, just letting myself, um, process it and, and get to the end of it. And, Um, not being afraid of it has been, I think, a gift in my relationships and just being able to be there with other people. I, I say being able to sit with people and their hard emotions is like a superpower for me because I'm, I really am not. I would prefer to spend some more time in your harder emotions than to hear how everything's going really well in your life and, um, that, that is a better experience for

Beth 40:06

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I just think, you know, just thank you so much guys for just being here, showing up, um, being. Like real with your struggles, but also where God shines, you know, brightly through you and how it blesses others. Um, and I hope that, you know, our listeners have been able to really gain a better understanding of the heart triad and how you guys have similar, uh, strengths around your feelings, but also the liabilities that come with it, um, and how shame pops up and your desire to be seen in a very specific light. Um, so hopefully this series has been really enlightening for people,, well us where people can find you guys as any Graham coaches. Um, because there might be specific types out there that are like, oh my goodness, I would love to work with, uh, them, um, as a coach. So Megan, let's start with you as the type two. Uh, where can people find you?

Megan 40:58

Yes, so I am in the Y E C network coaches directory, so you can find me there and then you can also find me, um, really most places. So Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram at Megan Jackson. My name's there, M E G A N Jackson 4 44 is my handle.

Beth 41:17

Four. Four. Four. All right. Um, and just for, we'll probably say this again, but for the directory, for all of our coaches, certified coaches, um, that are

Find a Coach

Beth 41:25

in there, it's myenneagramcoach.com. And then you would just search for their name. So again, it's my Enneagram coach is where the, um, coach's directory is. All right. Mike, what about you?

Mike 41:38

Yeah. so you can find me in the Y E C uh, coaches directory as well. Um, and then, uh, we have, uh, website cstl.org where you could get in contact with me as well. Through that.

Jeff 41:51

Yeah, Mike, I, I was, I was a little surprised whenever, earlier you mentioned that you didn't have any social media accounts. that part of just

Beth 41:59

Threeness? No. Uh, I, that's actually very common for threes and fours. Well, that's why I'm

Jeff 42:04

asking, was it, is that mm-hmm. It was, is there, did you just never get into it or was that sort of an intentional

Mike 42:14

So I have, uh, I have LinkedIn and I have Facebook, but they didn't, uh, serve the purposes I needed, so I just got rid of 'em. So I, I only tap them when I need them, when I need to find somebody.

Jeff 42:29

Right. Gotcha.

Beth 42:30

Well, and so it's Mike Parrott, p a r r e t T, and you can look him up in the directory as well, at myenneagramcoach.com. All right, Leah, what about you?

Leah 42:41

I am also in the Y E C network directory and you can also find me at my new, which is leah ierson.sub.com. Uh, I just started a new newsletter there or you can find me on Instagram at Compassionate underscore Enneagram. And my, my CK is also called Compassionate Enneagram, if you searched for that.

Beth 43:02

That's great. Oh, love that. Well, thank you guys again, so much for not just coming today, but really sharing with us your, your heart, your feelings, your emotions, and everything that goes into it. You guys

Jeff 43:14

are a gift. Thank you so much.