Beth 1:11

episode, we had a great conversation with Jen couch. Now as a type one, as I coach her, what you're going to hear is a lot of logic coming. So type ones are very logic driven. So type But hang on until the end, because you're going to see the beautiful representation of the beloved part of her heart, reaching out to her wounded child and speaking truth over her. And that is where you're going to see real transformation happening. So stay on to the very end because it is absolutely beautiful. hey, everyone. Well, welcome back to the second episode of this new season of your Enneagram coach, the podcast. Now, if you joined us for the first episode, so last week, you already know about some of the exciting changes that we're introducing and the new format that we have going. But for those of you that are just tuning in for the first time, let me give you a quick recap. Now, many of you know, I took a two month break to help my sweet 80 year old parents move closer to me and to support them while they had some health challenges. And during my absent, I am so grateful for my incredible team of, uh, Adam Breckenridge and Brian Lee with our coaching team. And they set up to do the podcast. They jumped right in bringing you guys incredible, interesting topics to explore. And I know I greatly benefited to listening to them and their insights. So, so grateful for them for stepping in and blessing you guys. Well. I'm back and I'm excited to bring you guys a, um, just a new and fresh vision for the podcast format with your Enneagram coach. And I am excited to share what that is with you. So our passion at YEC is to help people to use the Enneagram. And to bring real and lasting transformation to their lives and their relationships. Now we're committed to training and raising up the next generation of amazing Enneagram coaches. Um, now we do that in many different ways and we want to serve people who are everyday users, probably most of you out there that are everyday users, but also those that aspire to be professional coaches. And so we want to introduce this new. Format, because we know this new format will bless whether you just want to listen to a podcast and learn or get coached by a coach. Or if you're like me and you want to be a So what we're doing is we're combining engaging interviews plus live coaching sessions. So each episode, we're going to start with a conversation with a respected and influential guests. So like authors, speakers, and even some of our certified Enneagram coaches. And then after introducing them to you guys, we're going to transition into actually live And this is where you're going to hear them getting clarity and help with new, fresh perspectives on whatever challenge they're encountering. Today, or obviously during that episode. So what are they encountering? What is their pain points? What are they struggling with and how can the Enneagram help them with their specific Enneagram type? So the goal of these series is to really showcase the power that can happen. When someone is being coached with the Enneagram. So we're going to explore the depths of the Enneagram, how to apply it to life challenges and help our guests to navigate for themselves, their own life. When they have a healthier understanding and more clarity about themselves and what's actually going on, uh, from an Enneagram perspective. So I hope that you guys really enjoy this unique blend of interview and coaching because. I can't wait to dive in to me. This is like my favorite thing to do. I love being with people and talking to them about what they do. Um, but also when they have questions about the Enneagram, how I can bring that clarity to them and watch them transform. So if you're one of those people that are out there and you're like, man, I've really thought about becoming an Enneagram coach. Well, we're going to, you know, point you throughout, uh, these, uh, episodes to our incredible training called become an Enneagram coach. Now in, uh, what we would suggest for those of you that are interested and want a sneak peek of what it's like to coach, well, we have a free mini course that is perfect for you to start out. All you gotta do is go to your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course to learn some really cool things about being an Enneagram coach. Now. A lot of you are out there and you're like, you know what? I'm not really ready to jump into that though. It sounds cool. I am interested in actually transforming myself and my relationships, but I think I'm interested in actually being And that is when you would go to my Enneagram coach. com. And there you can find a coach that fits your needs specifically. And I'm thrilled to continue this new season with you with the guest Jen couch. Now Jen couch. Now her last name is spelled K a U T S C H. Yeah, I know. It's like my maiden name, Fitzy. That was P F U E T Z E. It's kind of different, but hers is simply pronounced couch. So Jen is the founder and creator of Sober Sis Community, and she's the leader in this sober curious movement. Now she lives in Fort Worth. Texas and is married to her husband for 28 years. And they have two adult children in their early twenties. Now she started SoberSis in 2017. And since then, she's had more than 200, 000 women download her free happy hour survival guide. And over 30, 000 have participated in the 21 day reset

Jennifer Kautsch & Sober Sis

Beth 7:03

All right. Well, let me welcome Jen to the show right now. Hey Jen. Good to see you. Good to see you. Great. Well, Hey, tell us a little bit more about Sober Sis and your passion and calling behind it.

Jennifer 7:16

Absolutely. Well, I Sis I their relationship with alcohol without the labels, shame, judgment, all the things that can go with that. And really, I just help women break out of that detox to retox cycle. Um, that's where I found myself caught for years. Just healthy mom by day and mindless sipping by night. And I wanted to bring more mindfulness into my. into my whole world.

Beth 7:47

Wow. That is so, so good. Yeah. And it's amazing hearing also, you know, how many people have participated so far and tell me a little bit more about the reset challenge that you have. It's a 21 day reset. Is that right? Yeah, that's right.

Jennifer 8:02

So I started this challenge almost, uh, towards the end of my first year, just exploring this alcohol free lifestyle. And, um, I didn't really set out to. Quote not drink again. I just wanted to fill back in the driver's seat and get off of autopilot. So, uh, once I found this freedom, of course, I wanted to share it with more women. So I created what is now known as the 21 Day Reset Challenge. And since, uh, late 2018, tens of thousands of women have gone through this, this program and really more importantly, joined the community of Sober Sis because we're all about

Beth 8:38

connections. Wow. That is remarkable. So then every month there's a 21 day reset. Is that right? That people can join?

Jennifer 8:46

Yeah, that's right. At the beginning of every month, we launch a new one and in between the beginning of each reset, we have what's called a runway so you can sign up any time. I've got all kinds of resources to just even help women bring more awareness into their relationship with drinking. But yep, at the beginning of every month, we kick it off and it's been, it's been really rewarding to walk alongside so many women's journeys all while continuing my own journey at the same

Beth 9:14

time. Right. Exactly. Okay. So Jen, you and I have talked behind the scenes, and I know that you identify as a type one, the principled or former on the Enneagram, and you recently shared with me that you have some challenges, particularly facing that pesky inner critic that seems to keep throwing a wrench into your efforts when you're trying to effectively communicate your message. And I know you've mentioned, um, you know, that you have worked really hard to be sober minded, to have your emotions in check, to stay grounded, uh, to be clear headed when you, especially let's say get on podcasts or you're teaching or, or creating something. But then a twist comes in because that inner credit all of a sudden jumps in and starts nagging. And when it starts to sneak in, it kind of unexpectedly can kind of throw you for a loop, even though you. A second ago felt grounded and ready. So your message that you had said to me, your message of getting out what you do with sober sis is so important to you and that you feel like it's really crucial to get the message out in the right way.

Jennifer shares her current challenges

Beth 10:21

Um, And so I would love for you to kind of expound a little bit more on that struggle and kind of share more with me and, you know, those who are listening, what the challenge is and what you hope to gain some clarity with coaching, um, you know, today and where you would like it to evolve and help you to grow. Oh,

Jennifer 10:40

Beth, I am so grateful for this opportunity. I really am, because as a person who is really personal growth. oriented. Everything I do is all about, you know, leaning in to the uncomfortable, letting go of the perfection and they've got to get it right. Um, it's been an area of growth for me big time since beginning. So versus it's been very, very refining. So back when I started Sober Sis in the spring of 2018, I'd never done anything like this before ever. Um, and so it was already out of my comfort zone and I'd started a little Facebook group, which was really small. It was pretty much just my friends who took the challenge the first round. We all kind of knew each other. And even then I found myself wanting to get it right. Um, and so I pre recorded a few videos, a video trying to put it in a Facebook group where I felt like. You know, polished, good lighting. Am I saying what I want to say? And I just couldn't get it because every time I looked at the video, I was like, ah, close, but not quite, you know, so close and yet so far. So I ended up scrapping the whole, let's pre record every time I do a video in my Facebook group and let me just go live. So I've never done that before. I hit the go live button and I thought, this is how we're going to roll. This is what Sobersys is going to be all about. It's going to be keeping it real. showing up as you are. And since that time, I have done multiple live videos, um, which kind of gives me the ability to pivot, change course, correct, as I go. Um, and I just, I kind of set a precedence for myself. We're not going to strive. For perfection. And ever since that time, that's been something I've been really working on behind the scenes. Every time I do something, uh, even pre recorded or ahead of time, I have to really move out in my own way. But like you mentioned at the beginning, sometimes I do get in my own way. I get smack dab right in the middle of the track I'm running on. And that inner critic literally, and this is what you and I were talking about. Literally starts critiquing me while I'm doing it. And that's one thing if you can hit stop, rewind, but when you're doing something live, right? It's very difficult in that moment. And you mentioned the goal that I have is to get the message out. I feel so passionate about it and I feel such a responsibility. To be articulate, concise and clear so that women can hear the message that I've actually, as I've gone and had even more success or a larger audience really felt sometimes more of the pressure and the expectations, which I already had on myself, which is 15 people that I

Beth 13:38

do. Right. Exactly.

Jennifer 13:41

So that's where I've been and that's kind of where I am now is navigating the larger audiences with still the same core message being just as

Beth 13:52

so the inner critic jumps in and so what you were telling me the other day was is that you you show up and you know like on a podcast or something that you're gonna record or like a live thing and You get sober minded and grounded and you're really, you know present then all of a sudden The pesky inner critic really jumps in. Tell me about that and where you're feeling either stuck or challenged, or what are you hoping that changes and why? Yeah,

Jennifer 14:28

exactly. Well, and this did just happen to me last week. So when you reached out wanting to do this podcast, it was actually perfect timing. Um, because you're right. I, I do go in with a sense of readiness and expectancy and excitement. And that's when I feel somewhat blindsided by the inner critic because I wasn't having that voice inside leading up to. So sometimes it's, it's almost, What I would love to gain, and what I would love to learn is more, um, even, even grounding tools when you feel like you lose your sense of presence. Because to me, that's what being sober minded is all about, is being awake, alert, aware, and present in our own lives. And yet with my experience last week, I literally felt out of body. It was like, I literally Lost my own presence with myself and had a hard time getting back to myself. And

Beth 15:27

what, what was happening when you felt like you were disconnected? Like what was actually, was there certain messages going through your mind? Was there certain feelings, a gut reaction? What was actually taking place?

Jennifer 15:41

Yeah, this is awesome. And you fellow Enneagram Ones will know what I'm talking about. I had the thoughts in my head of, oh no, a little bit of panic, a little bit of, this is not good. You are now off track. You're mumbling. You're rambling. You, you didn't come in with enough, uh, uh, concise strategy to start your story off. So now this is not good. In fact, I hope that people don't turn you off. I, I, the critique even got so rough as to be like, wow, you've really blown it. And then meanwhile, it's like a ping pong match in my mind because the, the truth part of me, the gospel talk part of me, that part of me that knows the truth is saying, Jen, relax. God's got this. God's got you. You're not that powerful. You're not that powerful. Sit down. Just relax and get back to that heart space because I was so flooded in my head space and my gut. Um, and the more I kind of internally frantically was grasping To get back in what I felt was the right way of articulating this podcast. The more I pressured myself to do that, the more it became difficult to access that. Meanwhile, on the outside, looking in, I'm with two other podcast hosts who have no idea. Yeah, right. They don't know my internal storm that I'm, that I'm in, and I'm still talking while I'm working all of this out internally. And, um, and I know other people can identify when kind of the pressure's on and that could be, you know, hanging out with your in laws over a holiday party and you're thinking to yourself, you know, drink, don't drink. Do I drink less? Not at all. What do I say? It can be a firestorm of, um, get this right and also stay

Beth 17:44

present. Yeah. Wow. Well, I love, you know, all that you've revealed, there's just so much going on. And I think that's kind of the point is that there's so much going on in one moment, which is, you know, and I know you've read my book more than your number, which is really why we love. Writing that book, because there's more than just one thing that's happening. It's not just the inner critic, you know, so it's not that you're just a type one, you've got lots of different parts within you that are chiming in and you're kind of having to keep track of all of those messages while at the same time showing up with clarity on the podcast in the moment. Which is really challenging. And so of course it makes sense that you are feeling derailed. Um, you have, you know, fear. Like, am I actually getting, like, what am I even like, I don't know if you ever had this, like, saying? Like, am I,

Jennifer 18:36

I was standing outside of myself with my arms looking at myself, like, what are you doing? Train wreck abort abort. And I probably could have in the moment just been like, Hey, time out guys. But my performer side, my, my. Don't do that. My pull it together side, it wasn't even an option. It didn't even occur to me to go, stop, stop everything. I'm derailed. Instead, press on, press through. Sometimes that's a good thing. And other times maybe it's not.

Enneagram Subtypes

Beth 19:07

Yeah. And we had talked before also when we came on here, when we were kind of discussing, you know, your, your pain point, like what you're struggling with and all of this. Um, I was curious. I had two questions for you, and the first was, what Instinctual subtype. Are you? So those that are new at the Enneagram, I'm going to be kind of, because we're coaching, I'm going to be diving into some layers of the Enneagram that maybe you aren't familiar with. And that's perfectly fine. Just kind of hang in, listen to our conversation and kind of pull out what. Um, best, uh, fits your level of learning with the Enneagram, but Jen, as we were talking, I asked you what is your instinctual subtype? You know, are you a self pre a social or a one-to-one, um, type one, because each of those really focuses on being the reformer, but in a different way. And your answer was, Yep.

Jennifer 20:01

I'm neck and neck, social and self preservation, much lower

Beth 20:06

one on one. Right. So for those that aren't familiar with that, and Jenna's really well versed in the Enneagram, especially her type. So, but, but for those that are listening, this, the social type one, so all the type ones want to reform in some way. Let me actually back up. The self preservation type one is more focused on reforming themselves. So another way of saying it is they're trying to perfect themselves. themselves. The social type one is like, Hey, I've learned a lot and I've, I've kind of learned the right path to go down. Y'all follow me. Like, here we go. And so it's a very teacher mentor guiding type, um, of type one. And then the one to one, which you said you were leased in is the true activist. They're really wanting to reform the world. Like what is wrong with the world and how can I make it right? And that's the one you feel the least, um, To resonate with now we use all three to varying degrees, but that's when you say you use the least. And so that made total sense to me. Cause I'm like, Oh, you feel a great responsibility. the social one part of your heart, you feel a great sense of responsibility to get this important message out to the people that are following you, that you are mentoring and guiding. In the right way. Now, one thing you, you had said is Beth, I don't think of it as being having the perfect message, but that I get the accurate message out the right message. Can you kind of expound on that a little bit more?

Jennifer 21:38

Absolutely. And I think because my particular calling and message is in really the gray area of drinking, uh, drinking itself is a kind of a taboo topic, especially in certain circles, circle women of faith, it can be kind of tricky. And so, It's kind of a nuanced topic. And so I think for me to feel like I'm really getting it right and doing the unique message, the justice, I guess you could say it deserves is really being able for people to hear themselves in my story that it doesn't become about my story. But it really becomes about their story and they can see themselves in that nuanced gray area. And I need to be able to describe that really well.

Beth 22:26

Wow. And so really what you're, so tell me if I'm, if I'm navigating this, right. It sounds like you want to be as transparent and authentic and vulnerable about your own experience. So others, Don't can come alongside and not feel judged and and feeling like they're like, they shouldn't show up unless they're just right. And you're like, Oh, like, here's my story. And y'all have probably a similar story of some kind come along. Let's be on this journey together. Is that kind of the messenger you're trying to totally,

Jennifer 23:02

totally. And what I'm wanting to do, yeah, is be relatable and that's not being always put together. They get, I want to be. Put together while I'm talking about being, you know, relatable and I'd put together. Yeah,

Beth 23:18

so you've got this really beautiful heart desire. So what's, what's so cool about how God creates us? So God created you to be this beautiful type that wants to give this incredible message in a way that and In such a way that they will join a safe community so that they have life transformation and growth. Um, and so that, the desire that we have is beautiful. Now, what starts to happen is we go from desire to demand, to judge, and then to And So we kind of know, so that's kind of the, um, kind of like when we're slipping, when we're getting misaligned. And so it kind of sounds like within yourself, you're like, I've got this great desire and it's beautiful. And then the inner critic starts to demand of you to, to measure up to some form or fashion. And then it slips into judging you. It's like, you're not doing it right. Look what's going on. And that's where the ping ponging is happening in your mind. Right. And then you start to punish yourself. Um, And that's when then, of course, we can really kind of slip into that. Does that kind of feel right that it kind of goes in that progression?

Jennifer 24:34

Yep. I can totally relate.

Beth 24:36

And so then when, so we talked about the social and the, the self prez type one. So the social being mainly like, Hey, y'all follow me. Like I've been there, you know, and I want to help you in this journey. I want you to want to help you grow. And the self prez type one is also working on yourself, you know, like making sure that

Enneagram Tritypes

Beth 24:54

you are sober minded. And so those are all good desires to move forward. And then I asked you, okay, do you know your tri type? Now, for those of you out there that are listening, you're like tri type, what's that? Again, it's another layer. The Enneagram has many layers, beautiful layers to it that makes it the complex yet glorious system that it is. And the tri type basically says that you have your main type in one of the triads. So the head, the heart, or the gut, but you actually use two other types in the other two triads. And don't think about the lines or the wings, but you use two others. That when all of your strategies and defensive mechanisms aren't working from your main type, you'll move into one of the other triads and use one of those types predominantly. So we call that the tri type. Now, it's a, if you're, if you've never heard of it, you're like, my mind is blown because I'm just trying to get Beth, get, familiar with wings, you know, I totally understand, but again, kind of go there with me. If you want, you can go to YouTube, um, and look at, um, Catherine Favre. She is the researcher behind the tri type and you can watch a free video on the tri type there, but Jen, you know, the tri type and you know, your tri type. So I, when I asked you, you were able to tell me now. So what is Yep,

Jennifer 26:09

for sure. I am one, three,

Beth 26:12

five. And right when you said that, my jaw dropped I, my first feeling was that, wow, Jen, I have so much empathy and compassion for you because you have the type one who believes that inner critic, there's a, a right way of doing this message and delivering this message and that it's of the utmost importance to do it right because lives are at stake So one's feel a great sense of responsibility and then the three chimes in and the three can chime in with like. but you're not doing it good enough. Like there is a measure, a standard, a, um, a way to achieve this and a way to look and present it that others, if we present it right, if we have a certain image, then we can help people. Um, but then lastly, the type five is like, but do you have all the information? Are you well enough versed? Do you, um, Um, Are you ready? Are you capable to give this message out there to the people? So here you've got these three types colliding with what is right. Are you good enough or do you have enough information? And I was like, Jen, I was hoping that you would see and understand the Mount Everest that you are on a daily basis within your own, realm of influence that The desire you have to be to present to others, your own struggles, to not have to put on this polished persona to get it right, to have all the information, but what you feel called to is the Like, and of course those are all important, but God is calling you be. Real in the moment to be authentic and to show up with what you have today. I said, Jen, you are dealing with like an insurmountable task and of course, you're going to feel challenged. Of course, that pesky, um, inner critic is going to come up and it's going to be like, you're not measuring up. Like, let me show you all the ways. And so my heart really. feels for you. It really wants to say, good job. Like you are doing such a fantastic job what you are dealt with. Now, when I say that we're on this side of heaven. So God is obviously giving you the one, the three and the five as a beautiful representation of him. And when we are aligned with the truth of the gospel, you are able to show up and give wisdom and insights from the type one. You are able to say, Hey, from the type three, Hey, here's the goal. Here's how we can get there. And the five is like, and I'm going to give you all the information, the resources you all need to get there. That's the beautiful, healthy side of that tri type, but that pesky inner critic can come up and derail you. At any moment, and I think that's what you were like, Beth, what do And so I would just love to hear from you now that you kind of see this fuller picture of the healthy part of that tri type, but also how it can derail you. What does that feel like to kind of see the fuller picture and what's like rising up within you? Well,

Jennifer 29:44

first off, when, when you, this past weekend, uh, were. We're walking me through this just one on one with just us. Um, I responded back to you with almost tears in my eyes of like, wow, somebody really. me. And again, my goal is to be seen. I want to be seen. Um, but in this way as a leader, as someone who has other people following to see me as a leader in that vulnerable way, really meant a lot to me. So think, I think because I do try. So hard, um, to show up in such a genuine, authentic, present way. It is truly a faith walk for me because I do want to prepare and show up prepared and ready. Um, that's been a lot of my work this last working through what does that look like? But I think what I'm hearing is. Really, ironically, what our group is, is working through right now, currently in one of my programs is that self compassion and that acceptance for in the moment, how to give yourself the grace that. You may have had before and you know, you can get after, how do you, how do you give it to yourself in the moment? And a lot of that is that self talk, the things that we say to ourselves and about ourselves, right? Inner dialogue is so real. And so that's what comes

Beth 31:15

up for me. So, so let's go there. Okay. So we've kind of set the stage. You have more self awareness of why these thoughts are ping ponging back and forth in you. You're in the moment. What is it like to even think about giving yourself self What rises up within you? What is it? Do you have feelings? Do you have thoughts? Where does that take you?

Jennifer 31:43

Um, the thought of giving self compassion in the moment. It's a good idea. Like I know it's the quote, right thing to do. Um, but even just saying that does bring up in my gut kind of this coming up in a feeling of yeah, but yeah, yeah, but, uh, I still that three side of me, which is really high as well, that wants to achieve and present well, um, comes up and self compassion is great. And you can give it to yourself in the moment in a dose, but you can't, you can't pull over and just start, you know, what really might have been, what might've been cool, and I can do it, you know, even here now, is to, is to bring out that self talk. In the moment externally. I mean, I think I was trying to manage so much internally that I started detaching externally and internally was becoming two different people, which is exactly opposite of, uh, what it is I long to do, which is be present in my own life and have the inside match the outside I've worked really hard to do that in my real life and yet in a really key moment, it was happening where that. Dichotomy the split was happening. So I'm curious what you think about this, Beth, do you think it would, I think from a even a psychological point of view to almost start to talk about the internal world externally Yep. Would actually be kind of grounding to bring me back. Like to go get myself, put me

Beth 33:25

back in. Yeah. 'cause like so, and I would love to even go there now 'cause I'm sure.

Internal messages

Beth 33:33

Um, and I'm sure you've got things swirling in your mind and so two things I'd love to do is what are the messages that are playing in the background? And, um, one thing that we do with your Enneagram coach and how we train coaches is to use guide sheets. And so I want to bring up one of the guide sheets that we use. Um, and so for those of you that aren't looking, um, on YouTube, you can always head over there and kind of see what we've got going on, but I'm going to bring up, um, One of the guide sheets that we train our coaches in. Let's see. There it is. And so what we do is we have these guide sheets that really kind of unpack part of your story. And I put together several slides, um, because I wasn't sure which part I wanted to bring up for us today. And I was just going to, you know, Like I just kind of like have us talk and see where we go. So the one I want to bring up, um, is, let's Um, and this one, This part of the guide sheet talks about the internal message. So I talk about it being kind of like a record player message. And we've got this, you know, kind of like the soundtrack of some false messages that, playing in the background. And we're not always fully aware of those messages, but they're there. And when we see it in front of us, we're like, Oh yeah, it's totally true. So one of the messages that a type one will have is I do everything perfect and right, then I'm good. And Does that feel true to you? Absolutely. like, well, of course, it's like, of course. And then we usually, what happens in my coaching moment, they look at me like, but that is true. I'm like, okay, right. I know you think it's true. It feels true, but let me tell you mine as a type nine and you'll see how untrue these are. So the type nines messages, if everyone else is good and okay. Then I can be good. And okay. If you're a mom out there or an, a parent or a teacher or any human being that has other human beings around you, when are they ever good? And okay, how can you accommodate and be flexible and make everyone happy? You can't, there's always something that is in disarray, right? So then the nines out there could never be good and okay, because people are never finally like peaceful or happy. And so. I share that to people and they're all the other tips like, well, yeah, you can't make everyone happy. And I'm like, well, in my mind, I can. And I think that I'll be okay if I can achieve that. And so for the type one, this message for you. I do everything perfect and right, then I'm good and okay is not true. It is false. So because of that, what, what is that realization that this isn't true? What does that conjure up

Jennifer 36:35

You know, I have. Done a lot of work in this area and clearly need more. So I'm excited about that, but you know, it does, it does feel true. When I read that statement, it feels true, but the truth does reign inside of me to know that really, I say it all the time. My tribe will totally recognize the phrase that's about to come out of my mouth because I have said it out loud so many times and I really do believe it. I know who I am. Because of whose I am. And so that true identity piece for me. If I go back to the truth of that, um, I'm already, I'm already good. I'm good enough as is. In fact, it's usually my flub ups and weaknesses. I mean, one of my favorite verses is in first Corinthians talking about, Hey, I didn't show up polished and put together so that the power of Christ could be seen in me. And so there's that part of me that even. it's, it's actually any perfection or togetherness is actually unappealing ultimately to the person I'm, I'm wanting to get with. But yet the person, the other part of me is like, yeah, but you should be more advanced than that. Now.

Beth 37:58

Yeah. So what are the other messages that, and I'm going to go ahead and take this off the screen so that we can kind of just focus on one another. Um, so what, what are the. Like even right now, or in that last, uh, podcast that you were in that you kind of got derailed, what are some of the background messages that you either know, or kind of unknowingly are playing back there all the time? And not only what are they specifically, but what kind of voice. Is it, like, is it, what kind of tone, what kind of affect is the person who's tell me more about that, not just the message, but the person behind the message and how they're treating

Jennifer 38:45

Okay, got it. Yep, the inner critic. The tone is one of just slight disappointment. Just kind of a little bit of like... Yeah, just a little disappointed because I know with that ideal that I can't, I can do better that just off my game or just can't bring it or, or this expectation. So it's a tone for me, uh, disappointment and the inner critic in me is really concerned about how people perceive me. Will they get a soundbite or see just one angle of me and then think that's. All of me. And that, that's a huge issue. I, I have internally is, you know, you've got one shot, you know, it's eight mile soundtrack is playing in my head to, you got to lose yourself in the moment, you know, one shot in that pressure to like have people that I don't even know, feel like they know me. Is incredible yet again. I do that to myself. I don't think that anyone out there is doing that to me, but I am definitely doing it to myself. And that is I want to get it right because I want you to see the work I've done on the inside. And if I don't portray myself as competent in that area right now, you, you, you out there. listening to my inner work here. Um, which I'm again, grateful for the opportunity because it's all about like leaning in. So I'm leaning in right now, but I think the part of me is like, Oh, don't, uh, don't get the wrong idea. Don't get the wrong idea. Like this is just a piece of me. And when I show a piece of me, I'm concerned that people will lose the whole of me. And I felt this way very much in, in a lot of relationships and, you know, even in my relationship with alcohol, if I dare bring up my relationship with drinking, I'll be cast into a certain role that is not who I am. This is just a part of me. And I've, I've always struggled with that. How do I show people a part of me without them thinking that that's the whole, and again, maybe they're not thinking that at all. Yeah. I'm thinking.

Beth 41:14

But what if they, what if someone did think that was the whole of you?

Jennifer 41:20

Yeah, that would, uh, that'd be a bummer. I don't know what I would quite do with that. And I'm sure again, being on social media, like I am, it happens all the time. I'm just not, I just don't know, but I would want to, uh, I'm the person that wants to be understood, make it right. And kind of rectify, even if you disagree with me, that's okay. As long as you understand

Beth 41:46

Right.

Working through internal messages

Beth 41:47

So, let's keep pressing in. What if... You were with someone and they didn't understand you and they thought that was the whole of you. How do you, what are you going to, how do you going to navigate that? So we'll take a step back for a second because you've done a lot of reading and learning from my own work. So more than your number, I know that you've read that. And so we talk in that book about your wounded child. And the beloved child. So the wounded child is the part of your heart that has gone through a lot of pain and hardship. And it's really holding on to some of those trauma moments, you know, when we were younger and those false messages that keep plugging us and they're trying so hard to, like, live up to whatever standard or expectation that that type to get somewhere. Like if I just get somewhere, if I just do something, then we'll be fine. then there's the beloved part of your heart. And that's the part that I've heard you say, even in this interview, um, I know who I am and whose I am. I know who God created me to be and I'm safe and secure in But there's that dilemma between the two of them. And I'm hearing that with you. And if you were with someone that really just said, you know what? I just see you as this kind of person, the one that you don't want them to just think that's the whole of That's the whole of you. And I really don't understand what you're doing and what your message is like, everything that is to hit you the hardest. If you were with that person and they said that, what would, what would the wounded child part of your heart be thinking and feeling?

Jennifer 43:30

You know, that's a good question. And I, I think a lot of it would depend on who they were to me. So if it's someone close to me, I feel like. I can keep articulating until they at least closer to understanding, but I, I think to your point, um, when I, when I do feel misunderstood or the part is taken as the whole, there is just a release there of like, well, I'm daring greatly. I'm doing what God's called me to do. I'm going to have to set that free. And the, and the wounded child in me, I guess, Kind of soothes myself with again, going back to God's truth. And then the, uh, the optimistic part of me is like, and I get to try again, you know, I get to try again. Uh, there's, there's, there's so much redemptive work in my life where God has shown up. So many times. Uh, this is a great example of that for me personally. Um, because he, I think he really does love me as I am, but he loves me too much to let me stay that way. Right. You know, right.

Type 1 wounded child

Beth 44:43

And what is it, what do you think the wounded child part of your heart? Cause usually with the type one, the The type one, so their core weakness is resentment, which in other way, people can say it is anger, which ones are like, no, I don't, I'm not angry because then they think that's bad. So we call it resentment. Um, and so, and the resentment really comes in like, uh, doesn't everyone see all the imperfections in the world? And why am I the only responsible one taking care of things? Um, is kind of in a nutshell. So for The inner for the wounded child of your heart, that feels as if people aren't understanding you and your message and the authentic, um, humble, life changing place that you're showing up, which is super hard again, for all the reasons we said earlier with the one and the three and the five, and someone is still. Misrepresenting you in their mind exactly the opposite of what you're hoping for. What does the wounded child, what is it longing to hear in that moment of that fear that someone has literally taken everything the wrong way? What is it needing in that moment?

Jennifer 46:01

That's a good question. I'm not sure I, I know the answer, um, or have access to that answer right now. Yeah.

Beth 46:11

Well, and Because, and the reason why I say this, and this is for anyone that's listening, we all, our window child has something that it's longing to hear. Um, Now, one of the, you know, maybe the shortcut with the Enneagram, cause there's more to unpack than we can right now, but a shortcut would be the core longing, the message that your heart

Type 1 beloved child

Beth 46:36

longs to hear. And the message for the type one is you are good. How does that message land on the wounded part of your heart and what can your beloved child part, how can it Relay that message in such a way that the, the wounded parts free, like, Hey, I know that you don't understand me and maybe in your mind, you're seeing a misrepresentation, misrepresentation of who I authentically am trying to show up to be. I know that I am good because of Christ goodness in What would that message feel like for the wounded child and what would it do for it?

Jennifer 47:18

You know, I just think of just total acceptance. I think, um, I had the fortunate, uh, I could call it luxury in this day and time to grow up in a, in a home where I felt like I was delighted it, you know what I mean? Where, like my parents, even at this age, you know, I'm 52. My parents are in their seventies, almost 80 and they still delight in me. They delight in me. Not just what I do and not just the successes I've had or the failures of it, whatever, they delight in all of me. They see all of me. And so, um, and two, I, I, I guess I just like to say it's. It's, it's, it's crazy being, you know, in social media land, leaving, leading a community of thousands of women. I do care what people think, but then I've also had to put on this thicker skin, um, all the time. I am constantly misunderstood. And then I just have to think to myself, is this person, you know, I go back to a lot of Renee Brown's work as well. Are they daring greatly? Are they in the arena? Yeah. If they're in the arena with me and they're getting, you know, kicked and blood and sweat and tears on their face too, well then let's talk about it. But it's usually, if it's somebody in the stands, you know, throwing the fruit, like you're in the stands, I think what I'm talking about for me is being able to be seen as. able to do the job to get to get it done. Yes, Lord, you picked the right person. What does that look like? The person that can show up day after day, uh, consistently, sometimes uncomfortably and keep doing it afraid, keep pressing it. And then, um, I think for me, the, the wounded child is like, Oh man. You know, it is going to have to be good enough if I'm going to do this day in day out for years without burnout It is going to have to be good enough, but that Panic stricken a little girl inside of me that I experienced last week Which I felt like I was I was on Like a ride at the, at the fair that was spinning too fast. And I wanted to tell the guy down below, turn it off. I need off, um, so that I can regather myself and show up in a different way. Um, I think that part of me. Was, was kind of blindsided because I felt so at ease and then all of a sudden something told me this, you're on the wrong track and so I don't know if that

Beth 50:08

helps. Yeah, no, that's perfect. I think that's a great analogy. And so. You know, you've got the, the wounded child in that, um, that ride that's spitting and oh my gosh, you know, I can just kind of see it and feel it and she's panicking and the coach or the, not the coach, the beloved part of your heart, I call mine coach Beth, uh, the beloved part of your heart is on the outside and can actually do something for. The wounded child, what would that look like to have something done on her behalf? Like what, what could you like, let's say it was happening right now. What would bring a sense of ease and calm? Not that you're doing it right. Not that you're doing, um, it the way others think you should. And not that you have all the knowledge, what, what would capture her heart to even be able to rest while it's still spinning? What. What comfort could you bring to her?

Jennifer 51:10

It's a good question as well. I guess just the self talk, you know, it's funny in our group this week, we're talking so much about the tapes. So I think it'd be just switching out the tape, the braiding, the fear, just the cold fear of like, Oh no, you know, to just a little bit of, um. You know, God's got, God's got this. God's got me to start really, uh, comforting myself with the fact that, you know, This too shall pass. This moment is not going to last forever. And somebody out there can identify. I think, I think having the feedback loop of knowing, uh, there's a common humanity going on here that anyone in my seat would feel that I'm not alone in feeling this way or that way that I'm not like, Oh no, this is bad too. Or I'm off track. Or now what? It's almost like, Oh, wait a minute. Actually, This is, this is my own self talk even right now. Jen, Jen, say your name, like literally say your name. It kind of brings you back down. Jen, what you're doing right now is so brave. Most people wouldn't do this. They would not, they would just not do it. They would shrink a little smaller. So it feels a little safer. Yeah. You're sticking your neck out there. You got back on the horse. You're back on the horse. You're riding. It feels a little bit wild, feels a little bit out of control because It is out of my control. We've got a live conversation going on here. So this is good, Jen. This is good. This is the work you're doing. You're getting better at navigating feeling this way in the moment and you're brave. You're brave and you're not the only one. And there's someone, even if it's one person out there listening right now, that's kind of feeling your pain or feeling. What it is you're feeling because they've done, uh, you know, a corporate, you know, presentation where this happened to them and they were like, Oh no, or they're, you know, a lot of scenarios where people can feel this way. So you're not alone. The only difference between you and someone, um, else is that you're here and you're doing it. And that's somebody that's worth following because you are imperfect. You are not always sure you don't always have the right answer. You don't have to appear that way. People just want the real you. Because if you show them the real you, they're going to ultimately be able maybe to see their real selves. And God works with what's real. So just show up as yourself. Your best is good enough. It's going to resonate with more people than being like, boom, boom, rapid fire. I got the right answer. I got the right answer. And I sound smart while I'm doing it. And I'm silly. You know, like, what? Um, so I think that kind of self talk is like... Dude, bring it back down to, to being, uh, the girl next door that I am, that could have coffee with somebody, go really deep and maybe not even have all the answers then.

Beth 54:21

Yeah. Thank you so much for going there because like even me, like you just sharing that authentic message back to yourself makes me want. To go have coffee with you. And I know that you and I do Marco Polo. So it's like, I want to hop on Marco Polo and have a conversation with you because it just shows that vulnerability and authenticity. And like you said, I'm just the girl next door. I'm walking this hard path with you all. And I'm willing to take, you know, a step in front of people and learn and share. And it's hard. And, you know, I get scared. Um, but you know what? It's brave and it's good. And this is who I am. And I just think that is so important that you're able to one, know what the fear is, but then to turn around with your beloved self and literally speak your name. Like you said, it's so important to speak your name and speak truth over you. You know, we can do that with her own, you know, self talk. We can do it with scripture. There's lots of different or what other people have said. Um, And it's so important. You know, like David said, why are you downcast? Oh my soul put your hope in God. So David even demonstrated speaking to ourselves the truth. And so I just really want to thank you for showing that representation because I think all the types out there can resonate. But especially I think the ones out there are going to really be, um, blessed by how you were able to speak kindly back to yourself, even when things feel disarray or you're spinning in that, um, that little amusement park ride that there's more to the moment than just spinning out of control. And I just really appreciate you going there. Um, can you share with everyone just a little bit more, um, about where they can find you and the resources that you have, um, with because man. I know that the work that you're doing is remarkable and I would love for so many people that really need this jump in and participate with the community that you have. Yeah,

Jennifer 56:26

absolutely, Beth. And, um, yeah, our group is, is an amazing group of women from all over the world, um, international group, six decades represented throughout. And, um, if you just go to sobersis. com, I've got a free guide that can, uh, help you even with wine o'clock tonight, if you just want to drink less. Or not at all and just need some of the practical tools. Um, I was just talking last night on an Instagram live, just came to me because it was unscripted. So we don't need rules. We need tools. And that's what this is. It's actual practical tools. Uh, so that's a great starting spot. If you're, if you're not familiar with, with me or what I'm doing, but you you're kind of sober curious or just want to look at that. And then of course I'm on Instagram at. Sober sis, one word. And yeah, we just, we have a lot to offer in our community. I do that monthly 21 day reset challenge that allows people just to take a break with other people, be able to talk about it out loud, wrestle with it out loud with other people who have so much type one understanding of like, I get it. It's, it's real. And the struggle is real. And I didn't know how many other women really did struggle with this. Um, wine o'clock habit.

Beth 57:50

I love that wine o'clock. That's so good. I love it. Well, your heart, your message, your calling is so valuable. And I just feel. Just so privileged to have you on the podcast to like go through this, like live coaching session with me. I know it's not easy, you know, it's kind of like, Oh, I'm being kind of vulnerable out there, but thank you so much, um, for just being transparent. And for those that are listening, you know, this is really a little glimpse of Enneagram coaching. Um, and normally we, you know, have a more specific path and that we walk down. Um, but I just wanted to show you and highlight with a live guest, you know, what Enneagram coaching can look like. Um, So that you can jump into the process. Now, for those of you that are intrigued and you're like, man, I would love to become an Enneagram coach. That looks so fun. And, um, well, we invite you then to take our free mini course called, um, how to lead coach and counsel with the Enneagram where you're going to get a sneak peek of what coaching is like. You're going to learn, um, about how to use the Enneagram from a gospel perspective or transformation. You also learn three mistakes to avoid when you're leading with the Enneagram and coaching, but also how to use the Enneagram as an expert. So to get that free mini course, go to your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course. Um, but then if you're not interested in being, coming to coach, man, that's perfectly fine, but you might be like, I think I could really take the next step and get a coach because man, I can see how talking through my life circumstances, my pain points, I can actually get somewhere really far, really fast with a coach. And so we have certified coaches that we have trained at my Enneagram coach. com. And there you can find a coach that matches your specific needs. So jump over there. Find a coach that meets your needs. They are well trained. They have so many good resources and tools. Like Jen said, we need tools, not rules. Um, so jump over there, grab a coach and see your own life transform with someone walking by your side. Well, I hope today's interview and conversation really blessed you. Um, this is the new format that we're going to be taking, and I can't wait to have more guests, um, hop on and to show you what it's. Like to use an Enneagram coach to have greater clarity and understanding to become a healthier version of yourself. And as always remember the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder because it's the gospel that transforms us again. Thank you guys for joining us on your Enneagram coach, the podcast. We'll see you next week with a brand new guest and we'll dive into some more live coaching. Then I look forward to seeing you then.