Beth 1:12

everyone on this episode, we have a type two and a type three who are dear friends and business partners. And as they launch something new out in the world for others to experience and be helped, they saw success in two totally different ways. And it kind of missed the mark for each other. So listen in and hear how I coached them through this process as they try to love each other. Well, we kind of missed the mark. But then stay to the very end, because at, after our interview, I'm going to share with you some of what I was thinking behind the scenes and why I coach them the way I coach them. So stay tuned. Well, welcome back everyone to the new season of your Enneagram coach, the podcast, I'm Beth McCord, your Enneagram coach. And in this new season, I'm so excited to bring you a fresh vision and a new podcast format that we all here at YEC are thrilled to bring to you because our passion at YEC is to help people to understand themselves with astonishing clarity so they can break free from self condemnation, fear, and shame. By knowing and experiencing the unconditional love, forgiveness, and freedom in Christ. Now, we desire to do that with the use of the Enneagram to bring that real and lasting transformation and insights so that you all can use those insights to understand yourselves better so that you can grow in your personal lives and your relationships. But we are also deeply committed to training and raising up the next generation of qualified Enneagram coaches. So in order to serve both everyday users of the Enneagram and aspiring professional coaches, we've developed this new podcast format that will benefit everyone. What we're going to do is that in each episode, I'm going to combine engaging interviews with our live are alongside with live coaching sessions. So what you're going to see is that in each episode, we're going to have a wonderful and intriguing conversation with a special guest, and then I'm going to introduce you to their work, what they offer the world, the gifts they have, the passions, but we're also then going to transition into a live coaching session where I'm going to help the guest gain some clarity, maybe some fresh perspectives on something specific in their life. That may be a challenge or a struggle that they're currently experiencing related to their Enneagram type. Or maybe they just want insights on something kind of more specific about what they experience for their type. So the goal of these live coaching sessions is to showcase the powerful impact the Enneagram coaching can have on your personal life. And you're going to see this with our guest. You'll also explore the depths of the Enneagram in a whole new way that you can then learn how to apply these into your real life challenges. So I'm going to help our guests do that and to navigate their own, um, uh, journeys as they go through some twists and turns in their own life. Um, and so I hope that you find these coaching sessions really valuable and Create practical tips for your own life as you get to watch. If you're watching on YouTube or YouTube channel or listening to these live coaching sessions. If you are like me and you love using the Enneagram to help other people transform, then our become an Enneagram coach. Training might the right fit for you. Now, this podcast is gonna give you guys the sneak peek into the world of Enneagram coaching to see what it's like to help others to grow at an accelerated pace. So if that's you, then a great place just to start and see what it's like, is our free mini course, how to lead coach and counsel with the Enneagram. Now to access this, just go to your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course. I know you're going to absolutely love it. Because for me, it's absolute joy to watch the person in front of me, experience the clarity and transformation and the insights that the Enneagram can offer people. So if that's you grab the free training at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course. Now, some of you are like, But Beth, I'm just here. Cause I love the Enneagram and I want to learn. I want to gain clarity. I want to grow in my personal life relationships, and maybe even at work. Well, this podcast is for you guys as well, because we want to showcase how Enneagram coaching can really bring that personal clarity and to quickly help you to move from where you are to where you desire to be. Yes. You can read all the books out there and listen to the podcast. But sometimes it's really hard to gain the clarity that you need on your own. So if you would like to get a certified train Enneagram coach, well, we've got lots of them for you at my Enneagram coach. com and you get to go there and find one that fits you perfectly. That's my Enneagram coach. com. Okay. So let's dive into today's episode. And I am so thrilled to get to share with you guys, this new format with some of my absolute favorite people in the world, Jane Butler and Christy Knutson. These remarkably talented women. They're not just people out there that have special gifts and talents. Guys, these are some of my dearest friends and they helped me to launch YEC back in 2017. Now they dug, they did. They done that. They done that. Okay, Nate, go back to that. Now they did that with some incredible graphic designing, marketing our products and so much more. So why is these look, feel marketing strategies all stemmed back in 2017 with these two remarkable people. Now. Just a couple of weeks ago on August 29th, they launched their second company, which guys, I am so excited for you to hear about. They launched it out of their own personal stories of loss and grief and what they experienced in loss and grief. They desire to help others with a website that will help people guide and assist them through some of the most challenging and hard seasons of life. And you might know of someone, maybe you're not in that season, but you might know of someone or. Seeing someone go through a really hard season of illness and loss, and you saw them kind of fumble through it and they felt like it was just too hard to bear. Well, what they did, Jane and Christy, they developed a new company called Near. Near's website is www. staynear. co that's staynear. co. Now Christy and Jane are on a mission to improve the way that we care and connect during times of serious illness and loss. And they're changing the way that care and support are offered. Now, near again is our second company. Remember, they help people just like me. The startup companies get to where we are today, um, with all of their incredible marketing, um, and, uh, operations and graphic design, all those great skills that they have. But what's interesting is they didn't help companies just like me. They actually helped a lot of nonprofit clients who were helping, um, others with, uh, illness, end of life and mental health. So what they did is they wanted to then bring their expertise and their ability to tell great stories to help people that are in that difficult time through care and support. So Christy Knudsen is a type three and she is a healthcare specialist and entrepreneur of 18 years, um, with her experience in marketing communication and operations. But for her, she's experienced a lot of early loss. And she wanted to help people to improve the end of life experience because she went through so much in that area. Now, Christie lives with her husband and three kiddos in Raleigh. And actually I get to see her here in like a couple of weeks. I can't wait actually in person at her home, I'm going to be there. So that's going to be fun. Now, Jane Butler is a type two and is the creative professional and entrepreneur for the last 15 years. And guys, everything you see at YEC, all the graphic design comes from her incredibly inventive and sweet creative space. Basically she captures me and all the design that's out there. So, so grateful for Jane. Um, but for Jane, her fiance, who's now her husband, Andrew was diagnosed with brain cancer when he was just 24 years old. And they quickly learned the value of grief support and care in their healing. Now, Jane lives with her husband and three kiddos. Um, so I'm so excited to welcome both of them here for you guys to meet them, but also to experience, um, this new venture that they've got going on. That's going to help so many people.

Meet Jane and Christy

Beth 10:34

So Jane and Christy, welcome. I'm so glad to have you guys on the podcast and just to be together to celebrate the new work that you guys are doing, that's going to transform so many people. So welcome.

Jane 10:45

Thanks. It's great to be here.

Christy 10:46

Jane. Yes, we're so excited. Thanks, Beth. We're so excited to be here with you.

Beth 10:51

Well, great. Okay. So before we dive into near and how it's helping thousands of people, let's take a journey back to 2017 when we first met and you guys helped YEC to get to where it is today. So tell me a little bit about your journey, your side of it in the marketing space, getting to know me, getting to know all Enneagram. You guys know the Enneagram taking several journeys with me along the way. So what was that experience for you guys and partnering up with your reading Graham coach, but then also finding your type and what, and how has that shaped you guys?

Christy 11:29

Yeah, I can jump in on that. So it was, it was really interesting because a few years before we met, I had been exposed to the Enneagram through a workshop at work and we took our types, you know, and it just wasn't really well integrated. We talked about it for a few weeks and then, you know, nothing really happened with it. And then fast forward to, I guess it was 2016, 2017. A good friend of mine, um, came to me and said, Hey, we have good friends at church who are trying to launch this business. They need marketing help. Would you be interested in talking with them? So that's how we got connected. And it just so happened. I live in Raleigh, but it just so happened that we were, um, I was going to be in Nashville in a few weeks visiting her. So you and I got to meet and Jeff, we met at Panera and I will never forget you had a binder like this thick full of, Incredible amounts of research and thought and, um, I, I was just stunned at how much you had already put into it. And you said, we have all this. We just need to help turn it into, you know, an actual startup and could you help? And so we had a great conversation there. And then right soon after that, I knew that there was no way I could do it alone. And so that's when Jane and I, um, I, I reached out to her and we dove in and it was a, it was a really fun ride. Yeah.

Beth 12:45

absolutely. So Jane, what about you? What was that experience? Like.

Jane 12:50

Yeah, I remember Christy calling me and just saying, I just met this incredible lady who just has a huge binder. She just kept calling out this massive binder and I had no idea what the enneagram was when Christy first told me. And so I, I was shocked about what even this idea was and what the diagram was. And then I remember connecting with you and seeing these guide sheets and thinking like, This is like the hidden gem of personality tests because I was able to like, read through and identify what my husband was, what I was, and I was like, wow, like, why don't more people know about this, this personality? Um, and so we, we went through everything and then we kind of picked, picked up the pace when it came to building off what you had and, and exploring more creative options of how to make it applicable and, um, clear for people that needed to know it. So it was great.

Beth 13:43

Yeah, I mean, you guys, that's exactly what you did is. There's never a shortage of content that Beth has. That's, that's the story of my entire life. Like, I want to get it all out there for everyone. They need to know this and be, it's so helpful. And then it's like, okay, Beth, they don't need a fire hose in their mouth every single moment. So the challenge is always how to dial it back enough that. is still, you know, super helpful for everyone, but it is hard because it's like, yeah, but I want them to know it all. Um, so you guys did such a masterful job helping me to edit, um, and bring to people what they needed in the moment. But also the other thing that. I'm a visual learner or a visual processor as well. And so that's one thing that you guys really helped me was to capture the complexity of the Enneagram into these easy to understand graphic design and illustrations and stuff like that, which really meant a lot to me. Um, Because I want people to access the Enneagram quickly and easily with clarity, you know, and to implement it like right now. And I think a lot of, um, teachers have such a large, um, understanding of the Enneagram and I love so many of the teachers I've learned from, but I was like, yeah, but the everyday person, they don't want to digest all of that. You know, they don't need all of that. They need something that's super tangible right now. So you guys, thank you so much for just. Probably the patience and the weeding through everything, um, and bringing to life what was inside me to everyone else out there, it really just means so much to me. And, and also your beautiful friendship. I mean, we've had such a fun time just being together. We've had like, what do we call them? Jane? Like nightly. By a fire chats on zoom, like going through all the material and just the passion we had to serve others. And I want to take that same idea, the, cause what I love about you guys is you don't do things that you're not passionate about. Um, and so let's move from any gram, which is, I know it's been super helpful for both of you in, and many areas of your life, the Enneagram has, um, but near really is. And I want to talk about that when I like unpack a little bit about why you started near, um, why you felt like it was going to be helpful for others. Um, and let's kind of walk through that in going through a little bit, if you're open and willing to. Be transparent and vulnerable about what you guys experienced.

Their New Company "Near"

Beth 16:26

Um, can you guys tell us a little bit about the story behind N. E. A. R. and why you are so passionate to get this out to other people?

Jane 16:34

Yeah, absolutely. I can go first. Um, so back in 2014, uh, my then fiance was diagnosed with a, uh, nine centimeter brain tumor. Um, 28 days before our wedding. Uh, very unexpected. It was a quick migraine that turned, didn't turn, but that revealed to us that he had a quickly growing, uh, tumor in his brain right in the middle of law school exams. So, um, not, not that there's ever ideal timing, but the timing was even more just confusing. And so within a week of being diagnosed, we were flying back to Kansas and we had our first surgery and recovery, um, which has its own. It's own issues and frustrations and overwhelm and all the emotions and we, um, were married 24 days later, which is, um, a sweet spot in the story among many other sweet spots. And, um, he was then cleared for having to do some treatment, but it was to be closely monitored for the next few years. And then we monitor it, monitored it and. began to grow a family and move and kind of develop our lives thinking the brain tumor story was over. Um, and it was just going to be part of our story. And then last August, um, we felt prompted to go and get it checked even sooner than what our previous exams were, um, scheduled to be, and there had shown regrowth. And so we were then kind of thrown back into a, um, Scary and an all too familiar season, which was even more difficult because we had, we lived our lives as if our brain tumor story was eight years ago. It was done. We had learned so much. We had transformed a lot of things because of that story and then having to like reopen it back up and experience it again. Not only as, uh, fiancees, but as parents as people that have been married and know each other for a lot longer. And so last august, he then underwent a second surgery, um, to remove the what we believe is to be the same tumor. And now we are, um, still on every six months scans to monitor growth. But the reason we kind of captivated near and near has always been dear to our hearts over the past few years because of our stories. You know, 2014 and Chrissy's earlier, and then having it happen again to us and recognizing the gaps in the system of what I knew from my experience to what I currently experienced, even in 2022, a year ago, I really felt like there was a place to serve people that are experiencing this time. And so we kind of put our focus on near and transformed it into what it is today.

Beth 19:39

well, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I remember last year. I remember even where I was getting the message about Andrew's, um, that you guys found out that he had regrowth and yeah, that was so hard. Again, I mean, I can still remember walking through that with kind of with you and like what that meant and how scary that was at season. So, um, So I'm, I'm thankful that you are able and willing to share your story. I know that's really vulnerable and hard, you know, it's like to really open up your life to, you know, everyone to say, Hey, this is what we have gone through. And, and honestly, this is still what we're going through. Cause like you said, you have to have these scans and what does that mean every six months? And, um, so thank you so much. Uh, Christy, tell us a little bit about, um, you know, your background with illness and grief.

Christy 20:33

Sure. And yeah, thank you, Jane. I know that's hard to talk about. And I'm with you, Beth. I remember exactly where I was sitting, everything about the car that I was in, you know, which is one of the so, um, yeah. So my background is I just had kind of an urge. family, our extended family was really close knit. Um, they still are now, but especially when I was younger as well. And, um, when I was 10, my grandmother was living with Alzheimer's and I really became at that age, one of her primary caregivers. I was an only child, you know, we lived, um, out in the country. And so it's just kind of how it worked for us. And I was, um, one of her primary caregivers from 10 to 16 and she passed away when I was 16 and it was. Absolutely. One of the greatest honors of my life. Just I have the best. It was hard, of course. And, um, you know, not the usual, um, preteen and teen experience, but just a really beautiful time of life and really shaped kind of how my perspective on almost everything. And, um, and then I also had a first cousin who, um. We were just incredibly close. She was a little bit older than me, but we were like sisters. She was an only child as well. And so we, um, just, yeah, we were each other's person and, um, her mom, um, right as our grandmother was dying, her mom, my aunt was diagnosed with cancer. And so I walked with my aunt and Teresa through that for a few years, and then she passed away. And, um, almost immediately, just a few months after she passed away, my cousin Teresa was diagnosed with cancer as well. And so that began a 4 year, um. Experience, you know, journey through illness with her and then she passed away when I was 22 and so, you know, they're in Lamont talks about losses that you'll never get over. Right? You always walk with the limp. There are some people you just can't live without. Um, and that was my experience with losing Teresa and her at that point, both of her parents had passed away. And so, um, navigating the health care system with her, Even though we were in a really, um, prestigious health care institution, still the way that they addressed, um, serious illness and end of life in those conversations was incredibly lacking and resulted in a much more difficult end of life experience, both physically, emotionally. For her and for, you know, um, the people who loved her who were left to grieve her afterwards. And so that was just such a difficult experience in ways that it did not have to be. And so that really illuminated to me the need for innovation for reform, essentially, and how we handle, um, the end of life and how we think about our mortality and, you know, the opportunity to, um. to, to talk about and like weave the reality of our mortality into our everyday lives and how that really results in so much, such a richer life when we're able to do that. Um, so that's what prompted me to work in the space that I worked in for the last many years. And that led ultimately to the formation of New York where we're at.

Beth 23:33

Hey, man, well, I'm so sorry that you guys, you know, have gone through such challenging seasons of life. And I would love to hear, you know, for those that are out there that are like, Oh my gosh, I have experienced something similar. I've gone through a similar grief. Um, I know like for me, I had, you know, shared with you guys when I was 17, my best friend, he was diagnosed and like, we were best friends since like, Five years old. Like we were actually, we almost got kidnapped together when we were eight years old. Like it was like super scary, like super sketch. Like we were on our bikes and the next door neighbor's house. And we were, you know, just doing our. 1980s bike writing. I think I had one of those Schwinn bikes, you know, like, I mean, like when you see like it on Tech talks, it's like, yes, that's my bike. Um. And anyway, we were riding our bikes and we were in front of our friend's house, which was next door, or next door to my best friend's house. It was another friend's house that we were in front of. And this white car pulled up and he yelled at us to come and get, um, come to him. And I froze. Luckily, my friend jumped off his bike and started running towards his home and I'm like left behind. And so I started running like, Oh my gosh, don't leave me. So I ran in and then the guy pulled off, you know, immediately. So like he and I have been through like a lot. Um, And so when we were 17, we were hanging out like right before school started. It was August, August, yeah, it was August 4th or yeah, August 4th. We were hanging out and on August 6th, uh, he was diagnosed with two forms of acute leukemia. And at 17, I didn't know what any of that meant. You know, I just knew that it wasn't good. And when my parents found out my dad's a doctor and my mom's a nurse, they were devastated. So I knew, Oh, wait, this is a much bigger deal than even I understood. And. Sadly, it was two years to the day he was diagnosed that he passed away. And so for two months, there was just this huge emotional roller coaster and ups and downs. And being 17, I just didn't understand how close he was to dying and what that all meant. Um, but I, I remember feeling, um, panicked every time a kid would come to one of the classes I was in, you know, like, you know, what, like math class or something and hand a teacher a note. Cause I didn't know what that note was. Was that note saying that, you know, my best friend had passed away. Um, was there something else going on? And there was a couple of times where I was pulled out because. Something was going on. And so, um, but then he did pass away. Like I said, two months, the day he was diagnosed and to navigate all of that grief. I mean, it, gosh, it took years and years and years to navigate. And I'm sure everyone can understand. Um, but I think. And I want you to tell people what near really is. And the reason why is even though I was 17, near could have been valuable to me as well. Like when I was going through the grieving process, I didn't know how to grieve. And my parents didn't know how to help me grieve. Right. So, and I'm kind of a, Like withdrawn type, you know, the type nines are withdrawn. So I just would, would withdraw and kind of numb out and check out. And, um, I basically within a couple of months went into my own depression, which of course totally makes sense, but I didn't know how to navigate that. I didn't know how to, and my parents didn't know how to help me. And so. You know, we all go through our own processes, but now that I'm an adult and I have my own kids thinking about what Brandon's parents went through back in 1991 and how little help they had, I'm sure back then, I can't imagine what they went through the loss, the confusion, the complexity of it all. And what does near mean to people like that today? So can you kind of unpack and, and, um, tell us what near really is and why it's here. Silence. Silence.

Jane 27:25

Yeah. So near is, um,

Beth 27:27

Silence.

Jane 27:28

thanks for, thanks for sharing. First. It's every story that we hear where we see near confidant or every story of grief and loss

Beth 27:37

Silence. Silence.

Jane 27:38

always impacts us because it's such a, it's such an opportunity for people to come around and be a community and a support. And yet we are so ill equipped or awkward when we hear stories like this, that we're like, Oh, do we just say, Do we sit with them? Do we just like throw money at the problem? Like, what, what do we do? How do we like come around and actually like either tangibly support or even just like remind people, like you're not alone in grief, like you're not alone. You might feel alone. Grief does that. Grief can feel so isolating and, um, overwhelming and yet it is. It's also like one of the most beautiful emotions to feel among with people because you can feel that community sense that support. And so one of the big things right now in what currently near is we have lots of plans to grow it into many different tools. It's currently an online platform that hosts. Two essential things, requests and, um, practical support when it comes to gifts or tools or, um, comfort items that people during serious illness can use. And for the people that have lost somebody, there's, there's a plethora of incredible grief companies, um, or companies that deal with grief and loss that we just don't know about because we don't find out about them until it's too late. And so we're trying to bring the forefront of there's an incredible industry of. Founders that we've met, ideas that are out there that we want to elevate and say. You could use this earlier in your story and it'll help you along the way. So think of it like a wedding and baby registry when it comes to the gifts and the ideas. And then an online planning platform for you to say, Hey, I need help with the yard while I'm at the hospital. Hey, I need help watching my kids. Can someone take this? Hey,

Beth 29:32

Hmm.

Jane 29:33

I need someone to sit with me during coffee. My husband's during surgery. Like there's, there's a, there's so many different ideas that we have. And so for the people that are grieving, um, their support system can utilize and can equip that person better through nearest tools.

Beth 29:49

Wow, that's so, so needed. And like, like I just said, you know, with my friends, parents, like, I can't even imagine that the resources they could have had, you know, and they wouldn't have had to feel so stuck. So lost, so alone in that process. Um, Christy, is there anything you want to kind of share, add to kind of what you guys have unfolded?

Christy 30:09

Yeah, no, Jane did a did a great job summarizing it. But I think, um, you know, one of the one of the beautiful elements of the registry is the ability to really personalize the support that you give because so often if you hear of someone who receives, let's say, a horrible diagnosis, there's a rush of support and love and everyone has all this energy, and they need to direct it in some area. And so oftentimes, you know, sure, someone sets up a go fund me, and that's helpful. Absolutely. And yet there's going to be a certain there's gonna be the inner rings of support who want to do more than give money. They want to be more personal. And so that's when oftentimes people begin sending gifts, which can be Again, incredibly loving and kind, but we hear all the time from someone who got 10 blankets or someone who got four Vitamix is right. All of them packed with love. And if you ask any of those people who sent a Vitamix, you know, would you rather send something else? They don't have the answer would have been yes. And

Beth 31:08

Yeah.

Christy 31:09

this tool is just really practical to help organize some of that support. And also to empower the person who's at the center of the crisis to be able to ask for what they need if they know what they need. Um, you know, it doesn't, the, the, um, a person can set up a registry for themselves if they are in a state of mind. And if that's, you know, if that feels like a good, um, use of their time and their energy or somebody who is like a care coordinator for them, a best friend or, you know, a sibling or a parent can set up the care registry for them as well. But it empowers them to be able to. Ask for what they need and, you know, and give information, um, to the people who want to support them rather than just kind of seeing what happens and it and it or around them to be able to love in a really tangible way.

Beth 31:53

Yeah, and that is so important. I mean, just to have that, I can't even imagine because like, This last the summer, I haven't been on the podcast, you know, for several months because my 80 year old parents, um, needed to move from Kansas city to here because their own health challenges. My mom had six compression fractures. We were in or in and out of hospital in and out of, um, skilled nursing care. Um, and then the whole move, like packing up their house, you know, and all this stuff. So I was inundated and I was exhausted. So I like what you said there because Jeff could have. He, he was holding down the fort here while I was in Kansas city, you know, trying to get my parents transitioned to Nashville. I didn't have the capacity to even say what I needed, but there was a lot that I did need. Um, and I was pretty much alone in Kansas city because my parents, you know, they just, I hadn't been there for 20 some years, you know, so it's like, not like my people were around and to have a registry where I could have said, Hey, here are the needs. I are, here's what I need, but not only that, here's what my 80 year old parents need, you know? And so friends and family can help while we go through that process. I can't even like now I'm like, Oh my gosh, that would have been so great. And Jeff for Jeff to step in and say, Hey, you know, her mom needs a walker. Her mom needs, you know, Um, this, you know, or that for people to be able to say, yeah, I want to give, I want to help, um, you know, like we were just eating out all the time because I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't cooking. I was just trying to make sure she was getting the right medication, the right support, the right care. And then for me, just to sleep whenever I could sleep. And so it was always getting something to eat. And I think I saw on your registry, a lot of gift cards, which is so helpful, uh, for different restaurants, but for me to be able to say, Oh, we like this place. Like this is, you know, and because, you know, a lot of times you want to give gift cards to people and you're like, I don't know what, what they want, what they like. And so to have a registry for the person to say, yes, this is the place where this is what we like to eat, I think is. So valuable and insightful for you guys to put something together that can be so beneficial for many people in different seasons of grief and illness and what they're going through. Cause like my parents now are doing great. You know, we finally got the move to they're settling in. So we're not at that same spot, but when we were there, it was super challenging. And so wouldn't you say that near isn't just for end of life. It's not just, um, or even when life has ended, it's also even like what I went through.

Jane 34:30

Yeah, absolutely. It's even, I mean, right now we're where we stand with Andrew's diagnosis. It would have been helpful twice, right? It would have been helpful when he was first diagnosed would have been extremely helpful when he was diagnosed the second time, partially because my role has changed. I'm not no longer a fiance. I'm now a mom of three and a spouse and a freelancer. Like I have all of these other responsibilities that near could have stepped in and Andrew is alive and well. Um, currently, and so it's, it still could have been a useful tool that I would've really benefited from during that.

Beth 35:04

Mm hmm.

Christy 35:05

Oftentimes someone who is going through a serious illness, even if they're not at the end of life, but they're going through a serious illness and treatment that can last easily a full year, if not more. And so really the care registry helps with that longevity of care. Because we find that burst at the beginning, the point of diagnosis where everyone rushes in and then, you know, 349 10 months later, there are oftentimes, excuse me, really incredible, incredibly deep feelings of isolation and loneliness. And so if you have a registry to help, you know, you can add things to that over time because the needs change as treatments change as their kids grow up. If they're a parent, you know, those needs change and just to be able to have a connection point that the care coordinator can continue sharing out that helps. Extend the longevity of care.

Beth 35:55

Yeah. And what a blessing to the caregiver, right? The person who is like someone like Jeff, who was able to do like, what do you need? And let me get this, you know, together, or let's, you know, to help me who was in the midst of it and was exhausted, like, this is so helpful for all parties. And so thank you guys so much just for taking the time What has been so hard and so painful in your life and turning it into something that's going to literally bless thousands of lives in all the spectrums of grief and loss and illness. Um, I know that this has been a beautiful passion, but also a vulnerable challenge, I'm sure. And when you guys launched on August 28th, you know, we were actually talking that day about being on this podcast. Um, and it was really interesting. To talk with you guys. Cause you're so excited and yet feeling very vulnerable, right?

Work Relationships and the Enneagram

Beth 36:50

Like we really want this to impact others lives. You know, we've been working on this for a really long time, but in the excitement of launching it, there also was that feeling of what if it doesn't succeed? Um, and then as we started unpacking that thought we were talking about, well, but what does. succeeding or it working or helping others actually look like for each of your types, because you guys were talking before I even got on the call with you guys that day. And Jane really felt as a type two, a very specific way about, well, what if it doesn't succeed or what, what if it doesn't help people? But I know Christy, you were like, huh, that's so interesting. Cause that's not how I view this same situation, the same dynamics. Can you guys kind of unpack? What you guys were talking about that day, you know, we're just going to unpack a little bit about launching something that's so dear to our hearts because everyone out there, we all do. We have things out there that we're passionate about and we're wanting it to get out into the world in a very specific way. We have desires and hopes, but also fears. Can you guys unpack a little bit about that day and what for you as a type two and a type three, what you were experiencing and feeling and hoping for.

Jane 38:07

Yeah, it's, it's always a funny, a funny question to ask when I feel like types twos and type three, and Christine, I have the alternating wing, so I'm a two, three and Christie's a three, two. Um, and so there were many times where I'd be like, well, we probably just think the same. Like we're so similar, um, but our types are, we're still so different, um, in how we see things. And so I'll be like, I know what Christy's thinking. And then I'll be like, no, she's a totally different type than I am. I am so very much a two at my core on all things in my entire life. And Christy is a hundred percent a three. Um, and so when we were talking about succeeding, my, my biggest thing was, Yeah, like, what if, what if it doesn't reach all the people it needs to reach? What if it, it's going to limit some of the tools that it doesn't have yet? Because those are coming or like, what if, what if someone, um, isn't like blown away by this necessary software yet? Or like, what, it's all these, like, have I failed them or have I not loved them enough? Do they love us enough for like, like making the product, like this tension of approval where it was a tension of like, that's what success was to me and is to me is like, can we make it the best we can so that people can essentially all feel like a type two is one. Like, I want everyone to feel loved. I want everyone to feel supported. Everyone to be cared for and, and not everyone's going to be like that period, but like, my desire is I want them to be. You know, that they're loved or like that they're supported in that way. And it's a funny tension because Chrissy wouldn't say the same thing.

Beth 39:49

so like, you're revealing that to Christy that day, like, I'm, you know, I'm worried that people, you know, like, you know, what are they going to think, you know, they're going to feel supported. Are they going to feel cared for, you know, are they going to. even like it kind of like, are we going to be rejected in the process, you know, which is a very two thing. Rejection's huge for twos. Um, is what I'm building and creating going to support and nurture, you know, people like, so that's success, right? That's, That's the world of success. And the failure is that they reject you because you didn't offer the right help. Would that be a better, like an accurate way of saying it?

Jane 40:28

Totally. That's my biggest fear of it all.

Beth 40:32

So then Christy, you're hearing Jane talk and what was going through your mind or your aha moments?

Christy 40:38

Well, what was, what was really interesting about that day is, I mean, I had, I had the text message proof when you, when we were all talking of earlier that day, because Jane had, when we text, we, we talk all the time. And so she texted me, whatever texted that morning, you know, it was along the lines of what if people don't love it, you know, like, what if people don't love it? And my response was all about the numbers. It was like. Okay, but we, we are, we are following the analytics and we're going to figure out what, you know, what's connecting. And then we're going to hone in on that. It was all about the analytics and it was all about the approach of how we're going to move forward. And, um, and so then I didn't think anything about that response. I thought it was a great response, right? I thought I was supporting my dear partner. And I thought it was a good response. You know, I mean, my intention was obviously to love and care for her in the moment, but I was completely missing the mark. So then later, when we're talking with that, she was kind of helping us see that, you know, the, the, um, are people going to love it is a really deep question for Jane. And for me, it's. Is this going to make an impact like, is this going to work? Um, and is it going to make an impact? And so then I tend to go into the numbers and to figure out what's working and what's not and what we can change. And so I was, I was answering James, you know, out her, her moment of outreach and vulnerability to me. I was matching it with what. I would want her to say to me, not what she needed me to say to her. And so just having, having had that conversation with you about that day was so funny because I literally had the text message, you know, example of how, how our fears of failure are. We both fear failure, but in very

The Relational Dance

Christy 42:16

different ways.

Beth 42:17

Yeah. And it was, um, It was such a wonderful conversation because it's such a vulnerable day, you know, the launching of something that's so special to you. Um, something you're passionate about and you both have huge hearts for other people to experience, um, less pain, less grief, less challenge in the seasons of life that you've already experienced. So you guys are so focused on the. Well being of others, but like you said, in totally different ways. And so what we've done, um, and you guys know this very well, um, we developed 45 courses, one for each couple type, um, combination it's called becoming us. In each of those courses. And so it's, yeah, yeah. So like if you are married to, if you're a one married to a four or a one married to an eight, or if you're two eights married together, you know, whatever couple type combination you are, there's a course for you that we dial in specifically to your type. And the reason why I share that is because You know, obviously the course is kind of geared towards marriage per se, but it's really about relationships. And in each of the courses, we talk about the dance and the dance is only, uh, shown in these courses. And, but I'll try to paint a picture for you guys, you know, now, and on YouTube, um, we'll probably put up one of the graphics, uh, for you guys to see. Um, so you can kind of picture the graph, but so the dance. Um, Jane and, and, um, Christy, as you well know, is the infinity loop. Now, what the infinity loop represents, each of those loops is a person. So we'll use you guys as an example. Um, so one loop is the type two Jane and the other loop is Christy. Now inside the loop are your core motivations. So Jane as a type two, you fear, um, being rejected. You fear not being loved, not wanted, not needed, indispensable. Um, you, uh, yeah, so those are like your primary fears, but you desire to be appreciated, to be valued, to be loved and wanted, but you struggle with the fear or the core weakness of pride. Now what pride means for the type two is they are trying to Repress their own emotions and needs so they can focus on the needs of the emotions of others. And they're so attuned to what people need. Like they have the superpower that they know, like they know what people need. And then they confidently insert themselves. Into people's lives to help and support because of that desire to be wanted and loved and appreciated. And ultimately their core longing is to hear you are wanted and loved. So that's what's going on inside of Jane over here. And then for Christie as a type three, your fear is, uh, failing to not be admired, to not succeed, to not be efficient, uh, capable, um, to reach your goals. So the, but you desire to be admired, to have high status, high regard for people to see the good works that you're, you know, that you're achieving, that you're accomplishing. Um, and, but for you, the core weakness is deceit. Now to see it in the Enneagram is not so much deceit, deceit. It's that you're deceiving yourself into believing that you're only the image or the success that you're presenting to the world. And so you really do fear not Being what all the people are pretty much saying that successes. So it could change, you know, in any environment that we're in. So what does success look here in this particular situation? But for you, you long to hear your core longing is to hear that you are loved for simply being you. It's not about accomplishments, but the mind tricks us like. You know, your type is like, no, it is about accomplishment. So here you are looking at the analytics and, and measuring and all the things that are happening. So, so the infinity loop, what happens is if we take, you know, Jane is a type two on one side and Christie is a type three on the other, and you draw a line through the infinity loop horizontally, underneath that line is the heart condition. Like what's going on under the hood, right? Like you might see it, you might not, you might be aware of it. You might not, but it's actually what's going on. underneath the hood. Now, what happens is above that line is the behaviors or the outward manifestations of what's going on under the hood. So like, you know, the Bible says whatever's in the heart, the mouth speaks, or, you know, comes out in behaviors and nuances and stuff. So here, Jane, you know, you guys are sweet friends. Like you get along so well and you. You almost feel like you're the same person, but as we're seeing like, nope, we're not. So Jane is feeling super vulnerable. Her core fear is like igniting big time, right? Like are people going to reject us? Is it not going to be helpful and supportive? Am I, you know, uh, dispensable as like all this work going to be for nothing and people aren't going to feel cared for. So that's what's going on. And so she's sharing that outwardly. Well. That hits, you know, Christy, you in a very specific way. So that, so you've got the, um, Jane, you know, from the underneath the line, that's kind of, you know, going on and then the behavior comes out where Jane is like, but we've got to make sure everyone feels loved and supported. But then Christy, it comes down to your infinity loop on the other side and it ignites your fear of like, well, the way are you thinking that people. are not going to, you know, value us. Well, I've got proof to show that this is valuable through all the metrics and I'm going to, you know, we're going to measure the, the end result in type threes are very much about, um, measuring and having. Uh, specific ways to, to show success, right? Like we don't just go out there and try something and not know what success is. So for you, it's very much about measurements and well, Jane, it's okay. Cause we're going to like measure this and we're going to know it's going to be successful. So you're like talking to Jane and sharing all of this. And she's like, that is not hitting the mark whatsoever, because it's all about like people telling us they feel loved and supported and cared. And you're like, no, it's about the measurements, you know, and. What's fun about you all is that you support each other and you're really trying to be there. It's not like you guys are in some sort of shambles and you're at each other's throats or anything like that. It's like this sweet, joyful moment, but you're just missing each other in the moment, not on purpose. Just you, you're just different types. Does that kind of paint the picture of what was going on in the moment?

Jane 49:01

that's, that's exactly it. We always, that is so helpful. We always say we are happily married to Andrew and John. And we also like our business partnership as a marriage, like we have to, we spend so much time building something together. We're not building a family, we're building a business and our, our types and our like core motivations just sometimes just like really miss as they do in marriage. Right. Like we, like Andrew and I will be talking and I'll be like, this is not where like our targets are like this way. And especially as an eight and a two, it's just like, we're not. It's not, it's missing as I'm sure most spouses feel right when they're like, I just have a different type of a spouse and it's like, well, even if this, even, even if you have the same spouse, you might be different, you know, the way you see things, the same type of stuff you might, you know, clash there too. And so, um, that, that is such a helpful diagram to say like, yeah, I was saying this with this, with this heart motivation and Christie was just, or, or that I was like, that's not helpful. Like we're not.

Beth 50:09

Yeah. And it's, and I think what's so great about this example is you guys really, you weren't upset with one another, you were celebrating the day and you're really wanting to come alongside and support each other. So Christy is literally like, I've got the right way. To help Jane, like, look, Jane, like we have the measurements and we'll totally know if things are helpful or not helpful. And that makes complete logical sense. To Christie, right? Like, hello, like measurements, like, here we go. Um, and so she's offering the best of who she is to one of her dearest, closest friends and business partner, but it still didn't land right in it. And that's not what I want people to hear is it's not that you are bad or wrong or not a good friend or not a good business partner. It's that you are offering the best of what you have to offer the way that you see the world it, yet it can miss the mark. And that doesn't make you a bad friend or a bad partner or a bad, um, business. You know, associate, it's just that you're different. And so this is where we can, um, as friends, business partners, lovers, uh, parents of our kids, kids to parents to be curious and to say, Hey, you know what? You know, I think I just realized that I was telling you that we will measure success, but that probably didn't hit the mark that you were really wanting. Could you maybe share with me what you were needing to hear in that moment? Since I'm not a type two, like what would have really meant the world to you in that moment? So let's just pretend like that's the conversation. So Jane, I'm being Christy right now. Like, Hey, Jane, you know, for me, success would have been measurements and stuff like that, but what, what's it going to mean for you and how can I support you and understand you in a way that, that shows true love to you in this moment?

Jane 52:20

that like, it's so surprising to me how we just eliminate curiosity in our lives as we get older. Like, it's so funny that you said curiosity because, or to be curious because it's something that I'm trying to bring back in because we just don't, we either are just judgy or We assume or just, we're just not curious anymore. And I'm like, why can't we just like be curious of why people think that way? Why can't we be curious of their stories? So all in all, I'm going to like, I feel like that needs to be tattooed. Like be curious. Like everything needs to be like, I need to be more curious. Um, to go back to your question, I think I would have said to be able to hear from others that they love it, that they approve of it, that they. are celebrating it and for her to say like, look, like we have a hundred people that have said they, they do love it, like to show that evidence. Um, and then to also graciously say, we've done the work of measuring and the research of where things should go, that the fluff is fluff, the love and the fluff is nice. And I want her to feel heard by saying, and we've supported this. like, look at the picture. Don't just rely. Cause I don't, I as a founder too, I don't just need to sit here and be like, okay, everyone loves it. And we don't see traction, but the hand in hand of people do love it. And we we've laid a really like healthy ground of research support that, uh, instead of just siding with like the, well, you know, we've done the research and the metrics look good. It's like, okay. I think it can be both. Um, but I like that. I gotta be, I have to be more curious.

Beth 54:04

yeah, I mean, and it's hard, and it's not so much that I think I think most of us that are trying to be aware and to learn and to grow. It's not that we're going into these conversations and relationships, not trying to be curious. It's. That we often, if not almost always see the world, the way we see it, the lens, you know, the glasses that we wear, the, the colored lens that we see the world. And we just literally think everyone else sees and feels it the same way we do. And that's just a constant thing. I, I think for us, we have to, um, give ourselves a lot of grace and understanding, um, that that's. How God wired us is to see the world the way we see it. Yes. We totally need to be curious not to make assumptions or presumptions or, uh, projections onto others. Yeah, that's totally what we need to learn and yet also be okay that we're going to constantly see the world the way we see it. Um, and so it's a both and because I think if we start to. Put ourselves down for the way we saw it, or that we didn't see it the way they saw it. That actually hinders the dance becoming a healthy flow. And that's, what's so cool about the dance. The infinity loop is the infinity loop keeps going on in affinity, in the direction that you are going until you change something. So what I mean by that is so Christy, in that moment. Or let's say the next time this comes up and you guys are talking and you are like, huh, you know, we had this conversation and I wonder if Jane is feeling this sense of like, are people rejecting us? Because we haven't heard the act, the affirmation, the actual words from people, whether through direct messages or emails or some sort of communication. I wonder if she's actually feeling rejected or not needed or dispensable in some form or fashion. You know what, instead of just starting out with all the measurements and the metrics of how things are going well, what if I just ask her, you know, what she's feeling or, you know, how I can support her. And so as you change the trajectory of the dance into a healthy, curious way that supports the other person. Yeah. In the way they need it. It's not that they're wrong either. Then the dance starts to change in a healthier direction. Now, again, it goes in the affinity loop, but that's where curiosity and understanding of our Enneagram types is so beneficial because we can go, you know what my way of feeling and seeing and interpreting this situation isn't wrong as a type three, it makes total sense to me. And the metrics are good and helpful. And yet. She's a different person with different needs. And so we can both see things differently and we can both have needs, but I can also be curious and learn how to come alongside her in the way that works best for her. And so as I unpack all of that, and you think about the infinity loop of that day, if you could go back or if it happens, let's say tomorrow with something else that you launch in, uh, in near, cause yeah, I know you guys are going to build it out even more. Jane or Christy. Now that you're hearing that, what would it look like to do the dance a little bit different?

Christy 57:29

Well, when Jane, when you said the piece about, you know, we should be. We have this invitation to be more curious. It made me think of, um, there's a phrase, tell me more. Kelly Corrigan is an author. She read a whole book on how, you know, when you're in conversation with someone, the best response is tell me more. And How that can just help you get to the root. Right. And you can hear so much more. And so I think just, you know, seeing your text, like I could have just said, tell me more and it would have helped enlighten me right to, um, to kind of actually what you were actually feeling. And of course, this conversation is helping that as well, but I just think bringing the curiosity and bringing the tell me more and then. And then hearing what you're saying or viewing what you're saying through the lens, like Beth said, of your type and understanding what that means for you. I mean, it's, that's huge. You know, it's huge.

Beth 58:24

And also, you know, something that Jeff and I and the kids do, our kids are now adults, um, is I'll say, or we'll, cause you know, it depends on what the situation is, but you know, like, Hey, when you said, uh, this, it lands on me as a type nine in this way. And I want to like fix the problem in this particular trajectory. Like, you know, as a nine, I'm like, I just want to make you feel good. And I want to like, encourage you, like, everything's going to be fine. Like that's what I would want, you know, and. But I don't think that's actually what you're wanting, you know, so, um, what, what are you hoping for me to hear, to understand, to experience with you, but then also what is encouraging you in this moment? What would that look like or feel like now? As people are kind of unpacking their own story, their own needs, understanding their type. I mean, there's so many things that we need to be aware of. They may not have the language or the knowledge or the understanding, and that's okay. We can be patient and stay curious. And like, it's okay. Like we're, we don't have to always get it right in our relationships. It's that we're. Willing to be again, curious, not judgmental, receptive, and learning how to move forward in a way that light the love or the care or the friendship, whatever it is, lands on the other person a little bit more in the way that it resonates with them. I always talk about it as like your heart's mother tongue. So like when you change. Language, like you translate something, especially if you can translate it, not just in the right language, but even in the dialect or the way someone talks. Like, so someone who's in Canada changes, even the dialect to someone who's, you know, in the South of America, you know, like Aaron, uh, the Southern states of America, like those are totally different ways of talking. And so you automatically know, like. You're not like us, you know, but if we can speak to people in a way that they totally understand, it resonates with them, make sense. And it lands on their heart as if it's home, it brings comfort and ease and like aha moments. And like, that person feels near. And so again, it's not that. Christie, your viewpoints or how you're going to go about showing, um, that near is doing well and helping people through metrics is wrong. It's wonderful. And yet what Jane is needing is also beautiful and wonderful. And so as you guys navigate, moving forward, You know, with your friendship and your business relationship, it's not negating one over the other. It's including the both and it's the willingness to be vulnerable and transparent to not hold each other like, Oh, you're not doing it the right way. Or it shouldn't be this way. It's more like, yeah, it's my view and your view. It's your value and my value. But so it's kind of like love language, like my, one of my least. Uh, you know, the five love languages, one of the least ones for me is gifts. So Jeff used to, like, we were really poor back in the day when we were, you know, missionaries and stuff. And like, if he would get me flowers, like real flowers. Because gifts is so low in my mind, I'm thinking, why did you just spend such and such amount of dollars that's going to like die in like two hours or two days, you know, like, oh, it's a waste of money. Like, I'm very practical, but words of affirmation mean the world to me. And so. But for him giving gifts felt like the right thing to do. So he wasn't speaking my language, but if he would have just given me affirmation in that moment, that would have like brought my heart up and I could have like, just felt so much more alive. And, and so the dialing into the understanding of another person, isn't negating who you are, you know, and the gifts that you can offer is. But it is coming alongside and supporting that person for who they are and how they receive things. And so I think it's going to be really cool, you know, the next several months as you guys continue to build near to help people. And knowing that both of you offer such beautiful parts of the type two and the type three, but that you're going to need to support each other in a little bit different way, like to dial it in to each other's heart language is going to be so much more impactful. So as we kind of wrap that up, what was maybe one thing that you might. Of how you might approach the next time a little bit different one in a way that doesn't shame you, it recognizes your gifts, but it also comes alongside the other person in a way that might resonate more with them.

Christy 1:03:27

I think your language of, um, I don't remember exactly how you set it, but essentially like what would feel supportive right now, you know, like just asking that I think is. Is kind of an easy first step and over time, I think, hopefully, right, like I would learn more naturally what that what your answer is going to be Jane. And so I maybe wouldn't have to ask quite as much. I could give me a little bit more of like, you know, um, just kind of knowing that and then asking sometime. But I think starting out by just asking that question could be really interesting.

Jane 1:04:01

Yeah, that's, that's really good. I also was thinking of whenever I hear Christy's responses of metrics or success or measurements to recognize that that's what she would want to see, not just her trying to, um, Freddie Brown has this huge compassion and empathy video, right? Where it's just like, you know, well, there's silver lining like, well, like it's going to get better. And That's not what Chrissy's doing. That's, that's what she's measuring her success on, right? And her heart's desire is for that to happen. And so we both want success, as all founders do. And so I also need to, instead of being like, Oh, she just doesn't get me. To be like, you know, tell me more for her. Like, that's what she wants. She wants this. And I want her to recognize that the reason why I want this is that this is my heart's desire. Both are good, and both are what we need in this partnership in the growth of the company. But I think it's really interesting to recognize. Of course, Christy would say that that's the lens that she's looking through. I want to be able to articulate my lens because it's different.

Beth 1:05:08

Yeah, and I think where most relationships derail is one that we do feel like the person missed the mark and it feels so obvious to us, like. Ouch. Like you totally missed the mark. Like, why are you doing that? But I think if we assume the best of other people, cause I think, and not everyone, Hey, we all have relationships where the people are really not in a good place and they're, they are hurtful, but like a situation like this. Is, you know, Oh, you know what, that, that kind of landed on me in a way that didn't resonate and I kind of feel hurt or I don't feel seen or understood or attuned to, but you know what, I bet that they're trying their best from their angle and how can we then navigate that conversation where we thank them? Hey, you know, thank you so much for giving me your thoughts and your insights. It's just not quite landing on my heart in the way that I think I was needing. And that way we honor one another, uh, for the efforts that they are bringing, even if they kind of miss the mark completely and it's not helpful at all. You know, I know a lot of wives. With her husband, sometimes they're like that totally did not help. But a lot of times are trying. And so I think if we at least give that, um, thankfulness or that gratitude of, of them trying, but it landed on me in this particular way. And this is what I was actually needing. Again, like you said, Christy, what I love, what you said was I'll learn over time and dial it in a little bit better. But it's going to take me a while because I just view and experience the world so differently. And that's perfectly fine. We want to give each other all this space to grow and to learn and to mess up. Like you're going to throw out all the metrics time and time again, because that's what means a lot to you. But that doesn't always mean that you're trying to be hurtful or harmful. And of course, that's how you guys are. Cause you just love each other so much. And I think this is just a great example of two people that are. Such best friends and dear partners in business that can miss the mark in it, not, um, bring the other person what they need. And yet you're so wanting to do that and that it's okay. You know, that it doesn't mean you're not a good friend does not mean that you're not a good business partner. It just means that you're two totally different people that got created beautifully and we get to learn and grow together. So, um, I just want to thank you guys so much for sharing like your types, um, desire of what success would look like and. Um, what that looks to miss the mark for each other, for other people to kind of experience and hear. Um, but also just thank you for your heart with near and the things that you're doing there and how you're blessing so many people that are suffering in different capacities. Can you share with everyone again where they can connect with you, but also get involved with near.

Jane 1:08:00

Yeah, so we have, um, The care registry is live. So you can go to stay near dot co and sign up for free care registry for either yourself or for your loved ones. And then we also, um, are giving out some awesome resources through our newsletter every week. Um, we're doing some really neat things coming up for the holidays for. Planning ahead, highlighting some of our favorite partners, and so it is a wealth of information that we share that actually give practical next steps on what people can do to be proactive for themselves as well as for others that they know that are in a critical time right now.

Beth 1:08:41

That's awesome Christie, anything else from you?

Christy 1:08:44

Yeah, and I would just add to what Jane said about the newsletter and the upcoming holidays, you know, it's it's so easy to feel isolation at the holidays. Um, if you're a person experiencing illness or grief, um, but also for, you know, it's easy to feel helpless when the people you love are grieving during such a traditionally joyful season. And so. Yeah, that's going to be a real focus of ours over the coming months are some practical, um, you know, practical ways that you can extend support and practical ways that you can receive support as well.

Beth 1:09:15

Wow. Well, thank you guys so much for being vulnerable, putting yourselves out there to help others. It's going to be So beneficial. Um, and I can't wait for people to experience it themselves. Of course, I don't want them to have to go through those hard seasons, but we all know that we do experience that, or we know others that are experiencing it. And so having this available is so, uh, meaningful and powerful.

Beth's Enneagram Coaching Secrets

Beth 1:09:38

Well, that was really fun to, uh, talk to Christie and Jane and, uh, to share with them some insights on the Enneagram and how they can change just a few things to really help their relationship grow as business partners. Um, so let's move into what was going on behind the scenes for me as an Enneagram coach. You know, what was my thought processes? Why did I take them in a very specific direction? Well, For me, as I was listening to them, I realized that they were giving the best of who they are to the other person. It just wasn't landing on the other person in the right way for their type. And so immediately in my mind came the dance, you know, the visual aspect of the dance. And I wanted to highlight for them how the dance was flowing for them in a way that wasn't bad or wrong. It just was a little off in how they could. Tweak. the delivery or the curiosity in such a way that would actually make the dance flow even better for them, you know, and they're two couple type a combination. So as the type two and the type three. So that came up to my mind kind of at the very beginning, like, you know what, I think this diagram and this illustration could be really helpful for them right now to see how it's flowing. So that's why I brought up. Uh, the dance and then the other thing I kind of notice is usually what happens with people that you're coaching Is and like all of us humans we can kind of put ourselves down like we didn't know something, right? we Should have known better or why didn't we know that person well enough or why did they have to go? And give them my perspective that didn't help them so you kind of start to hear maybe even if it's a little bit a little bit of shame or condemnation or guilt or um You know, just some sort of putting themselves down. And I wanted to highlight that because they really were trying to offer the best of who they are. And so I think for a lot of us, we, you know, if we're coaching, we want to highlight the good that the person is offering from who they are, their perspective and how they've been created by God, that it's not wrong that Christie is, uh, Measuring, um, it has the metrics and the analytics of is this working or not working therefore, is it successful or not successful from her perspective? There's nothing wrong with what she was doing, but she could also add deeper understanding to Jane as a type two from Jane's perspective. And so I think that's really important for us coaches to remind. Those that were coaching that their natural bent, their personality, their perspective in and of itself isn't wrong. It's kind of what we do with it. So again, honoring the person God created us to be, but then also honoring the person that we are with and adjusting how we, uh, Love and navigate that relationship, um, is crucial as well. So it's a both. And so that's kind of what was also going on in my mind, because if we allow the person to continue to shame or belittle themselves in some form or fashion, it's not going to actually help the person to grow. They're only going to remain stuck. And I know this all too well, guys, cause I get there too. Um, and so. Seeing a little bit of that possibly pop up, I wanted just to highlight that. And so I wanted you guys to know that as well. So when you are coaching yourself is this is also important to coach yourself in a way that honors. The personality that God instilled in you, and yet we're on this side of the fall. So yes, we do want to honor the admirable qualities that are in us, but we also want to tweak to help, to grow in new ways that help us to flourish for ourselves. And for those that we are in relationship with, so I hope that seeing how Enneagram coaching can be so beneficial. To those that are stuck or confused or, Hey, this didn't work. Like what's going on. Just like we saw today. It doesn't always have to be like you're in a really hard spot. It could just be, Hey, something kind of happened here and we would like some clarity on it. So if you're intrigued in Enneagram coaching and you would love to walk people through the process of understanding themselves to grow, then maybe becoming an Enneagram coach is the perfect fit for you. And if that's you, a great place to start is our free mini course. On how to lead coach and counsel with the Enneagram. And that's a sneak peek into what we cover in our big training. So you can access the free mini course at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course. But if you are someone out there, there's just like, this has been so intriguing. I can really see how having a coach could help me to. To understand myself better, understand my spouse or my children or my coworkers better. I've learned a lot about the, about the Enneagram, or maybe I'm a newbie and I need someone to really bring that clarity to my own personal life in a way that is applicable to me. Then I would highly recommend you guys finding a perfect certified Enneagram coach that meets your needs. And we have a directory of coaches at my Enneagram coach. com. And there you can find a coach that matches you in a perfect way for your own journey. Well, I hope that that really benefits you guys. We love training and raising up new Enneagram coaches to bless you guys. So check that out. Um, and today's interview, um, we hope that you got to see the valuable insights of what Enneagram coaching is, but I hope that you can walk away with these new insights, the infinity loop, how your core motivations get activated, and then what it's like to move in a healthier, curious, new direction that offers a lot of grace and freedom in your relationship. Well, next week on the podcast, I have another intriguing episode with a very dear friend of mine again, um, who is an incredible therapist and author. Her name is Dr. Allison cook. And she, along with Kimberly Miller wrote one of my favorite books called boundaries for your soul. Um, she also has a new book called, uh, your best self. And. I can't wait for you to hear from Dr. Allison cook. She is an Enneagram type three, and we're going to dive into the world of type three again, but from a totally different angle and perspective. So join me then. And as always, please remember that the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder. It's because the gospel is what transforms us. Well, thank you for joining me today. And I can't wait to see you on the next podcast episode.