Beth 1:11

Hey everyone. Welcome back to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I'm Beth McCord, your Enneagram coach. And here at YEC, we desire to use the Enneagram to bring real and lasting transformation to your lives and relationships. And we're deeply committed to training and raising up the next generation of amazing Enneagram coaches. Okay. So in each episode, what we desire to do is blend enlightening guest interviews with live Enneagram coaching. So we're going to have this amazing conversation with our guest demonstrating the Enneagram's transformative power. Plus stay tuned to the very end, because I'm going to pull back the curtain and share with you some of the thoughts I was having as I was directing the conversation in a unique way for today's guest, giving you a sneak peek behind the scenes of the coach's mindset. So stay tuned for that. Okay. And if you're someone who's like, man, I have really enjoyed these podcasts, well, please like subscribe and tell everyone about it so they can follow along too. Now, for those of you that are passionate about the Enneagram and you desire to explore more about becoming an Enneagram coach, well, then check out our free training and get a taste of what it's like to be an Enneagram coach at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course. But maybe you're like, Hi, Beth. I'm really looking for personal change, uh, relational transformation, and even professional help. Well, this podcast is going to be so helpful for you, but I really encourage you to get your own Enneagram coach. We have so many great trained and certified Enneagram coaches, and you can get yours today at my Enneagram coach. com. Okay. Hey, with that, let's dive in today. And I want to introduce you to a very special guest. And a dear friend, Doreena Williamson, I am so inspired and absolutely proud of the incredible work she's accomplished in just a few short years. Doreena is a type nine like me with an eight wing and a bestselling author dedicated to exploring and celebrating the differences through her captivating children's books. She masterfully addresses challenging subjects with faith filled storytelling, resonating with both young readers and adults as well. Now Doreena is particularly thrilled when adults connect deeply with her work, emphasizing the beauty of diversity. She's also an engaging speaker, often discussing topics that are helping children to embrace the differences, fostering multicultural resources in the classroom. Together with her readers and listeners, Darina aims to build bridges of understanding and acceptance. So Darina, it is amazing to have you on the podcast today. Thank you for joining me.

Dorena 4:11

Hello, friend. I am honored to have this conversation and coaching today.

Beth 4:16

Oh, me

Dorena's Story

Beth 4:16

too. Well, here's the fun thing. So I've been watching God do his work in your life for now several years. In fact, it was back in 2016, I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, maybe 15, I remember because we were neighbors that are in the same neighborhood and we had gotten to know each other and you brought over your first manuscript and you were hoping that I could share it with my boss at the time, who was a former publisher, book publisher to see if anything could happen with it. Um, and so I did, and unfortunately nothing panned out of it. That He wasn't in that lane anymore, but what I loved is that it didn't deter you. Right. I mean, like you just kept going and tell everyone what happened from that moment until now.

Dorena 5:04

Well, gosh, I love going back down memory lane because it reminds me of how faithful. God has been through a tough journey, right? You know that as an author as well. Uh, yes, that did not pan out. I would love for that to have been the easy route. We're always looking for it to go as, as easy as possible, but it's in the journey and the process and the continuation that those muscles are built and that God continues to do beautiful work. And so for me, I did end up getting a path into publishing and now eight books later. I can't believe that I've had the joy of putting work into the world that, as you said, helps build bridges, connecting people across culture, across ethnicity with, you know, face faith content, but messages that do have a great, you know, human value across our faith or, or even people that don't share our faith, but particularly I think the connection with generation. So connecting children. Um, and adults who also need to be exploring that content and even the next generations as well. And so it is so much fun, such a joy. But then there are times like now where it's like so much.

Beth 6:21

Yeah. Um, well, and I can't wait to dive into that because we had a little conversation beforehand, um, which is exciting.

Dorena's Enneagram Journey

Beth 6:28

Um, okay. So tell us about. Your journey with the Enneagram, like kind of like, you know, discovering the Enneagram, discovering your type, what was that like? And then kind of getting to know your type a little bit better. And, you know, what benefits did you see in knowing your type?

Dorena 6:46

So my Enneagram journey really began in a tough. Church season. So I'm also the first lady pastor's wife of a local church here. And that's been a beautiful journey 28 years in, but it also has had a lot of moments of challenge, you know, being in a leadership role for a long time. It's going to have challenges, particularly when you are serving and leading people in a diverse context, which ours has been. And so in a very difficult season, my husband and his team were invited to learn more about themselves to help build their team, to build camaraderie, learn how to appreciate one another and move forward together. And the spouses were invited as well. And I had loosely heard about the Enneagram. And it's interesting, Beth, because very much, um, in line with. You know, the type nine that you and I both are initially, I was really more excited about my husband learning about his type and learning to own his identity and just, you know, how he, you know, wired and, and how he, because he's, you know, the pastor of the church. And it was later on that I sort of began to go, okay, wait, so let me learn more about myself and about how I am not only uniquely made, but wired for both the work that I do. In church, but even at that point, as this author journey was beginning, I needed to own the unique ways that I see the world. The, the reasons that certain things are more tension filled for me where frustration. Hits me where that temptation to compare myself with others that I don't always see a resonance with other people. But a lot of that is because of how I'm wired and how I see the world as a type nine. And I've appreciated, you know, the work that you've put in the world, which also helps you see, okay, how do we use this tool to. Not only be built up personally, but so that we can bring our best self to the work that we're called to do. And so I really am grateful that it's something I learned when I did, of course, it would have been wonderful in my marriage, in ministry, in writing and life and leadership if I'd known decades back, but I'm grateful for, for the now, right. And for where I can go from where I am in this current season.

Beth 9:15

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I know a little bit about your journey and your husband Chris's journey with the Enneagram and the church and the dynamics. And what I remember is just how beautiful it was for the staffs type. To understand not just themselves better, which is super important, but to understand one another better to have the empathy, the grace, the patience, the forgiveness, the curiosity, um, so that one, we can repair, because we all misunderstand each other. We all get frustrated with each other because we see the world differently. And when we see the world differently, we get. Frustrated or irritated or just upset. And, um, I think what I remember is just hearing the beautiful ownerships of the staff because it was mainly like, you know, working cohesively together, but then how it not only did that happen, but it repaired and then there was better growth. And then the outpouring of that into the church community just seemed to be so beautiful. And this is what I think is important for people to realize is that. Enneagram, um, coaching isn't just about meeting with a coach individually. It can be individual. It can be a marriage, but it also can be in the workplace. And I think what a beautiful representation of Christ helping each type, understand how he, um, directly helps that type to repair, to own up, to apologize, knowing that knowing that they're free in him. To do those things like we do not have to live under shame and fear and self condemnation because there's no more condemnation in Christ. And so we can sit before someone and say, you know what, I, I did do that and I'm sorry, or I was irritated with you or you didn't know, but I was really resentful, you know, and to say those things and to have. deeper, meaningful relationships. I just really want to commend you and Chris for allowing your staff to go through that process, because that can be a really scary process because it's so vulnerable to go in that deeply transparent way. And especially for your husband, who's a type eight that could have been. Really, really scary and hard, but wow, what an amazing strength. Um, what amazing, amazing courage for him to walk that journey and to be vulnerable and to allow it, to use it not just for his own personal growth, but for the church's growth as well. So anyway, I don't know if there's anything else you want to add, um, to that season, but I just thought it was just remarkably amazing.

Dorena 11:58

Yes. Yes. Yes. Well. I echo and aim in everything that you just said, and, you know, to your point about the benefits of coaching, not just for individuals, but for groups. I think it's so easy for us. However long we've known the people that are in say, this is a working environment as it was for Chris with his staff. Maybe you've known that person for a year. Maybe you've known them for 15 years and you think, you know, them, you know, their quirks, you know, they don't like this. You know, they like to go here. You know what their hobbies are. But we also, because we're human, we can get irritated with other people and. I think that our human tendency is to wish that people could be the way we want them to be for our ease. And I think what was beautiful about the Enneagram journey and the time that it entered our lives was that it allowed us and allowed me, I'll speak for myself as a wife, to appreciate how my husband is wired. Not to focus on how I wish he were for me or how I wish he approached the world because he has his own unique, amazing person and every human is, and we all deserve to be appreciated and known for who we are. And I think that the Enneagram is such a great tool because it allows us. Even to maybe be able to bear with one another in a better way to be able to say, you know, because I know that this individual is this type and I know how they're wired. So I may even be able to overlook right now that thing that's really irritating or that thing that I see, they're just kind of stuck in. But, you know, I know that they're wired like this. And so I know that I can, the gift I can give them now is patience and not respond to, to the irritant, or maybe I can just respond to them. because I have more awareness. And so it's just a really beautiful thing. So I just, I guess, echo the benefit of the Enneagram as a tool for groups, especially for those, those groups that spend a lot of time together, where it would just be wonderful to know each other better as, as you grow in your own knowledge of self and identity and purpose. Um, it really is a beautiful gift to be able to, to. To be known better in that context, um, as a mutual beneficial thing for the work that you're all called to do together. Right?

Beth 14:20

Yeah, absolutely. And 1 thing I also want to say in regards to this, you know. Is that how God designed the two of you, right? As the lead pastor and pastor's wife, you call it first lady, um, in the, the calling God has on you guys specifically. So in a multicultural church, so as a type eight, which is what Chris is. I love to call type eights big diesel snow plows because they're plowing a path for others. That's what they're designed to do. And, you know, if, if we've got a foot of snow on the ground, cause I grew up in the Midwest, you can't just get a Ford little pickup truck with a little shovel on the front. It's not going to do the job or do it in the way we need it done. We need that big machinery to plow a path for others. And. What I love about what Chris and you guys have done, because you're a nine, which I'll bring that, uh, part in here in just a second, but the calling that he has is the senior pastor to, to have a church like this. Is, I mean, it's hard enough. I mean, Jeff was a pastor. It's hard enough to be a pastor, but to have this particular calling, beautiful calling also really needs someone that is able to plow that path, that journey, and to say, Hey guys, I've got it. Just follow me, but in a humble, authentic, vulnerable way, but with a lot of strength as well, right. And so that is what I love so much about AIDS and. What I also love is how God then has used you as his partner in crime in this, in this venture, because what you've done is you've also helped him to see the other side, the other side of a person, the other side of someone's passion or mission. You know, aides aren't just like, Hey, we're going, this is the direction we're heading. Everyone needs to follow, you know? But you're like, no, there's more to see. There's more to know. Let me introduce you to more perspectives than just one. And what a beautiful opportunity for the church to have this blend of strength and passion, but also receptivity and nonjudgmental, um, perspective to bring a cohesive harmony together. And I mean, isn't that exactly what's kind of going on? I mean, even if you've not thought about it in that way, I mean, God really gave the church strong tower, this beautiful couple to kind of plow this path together. Wouldn't you say? Yes,

Dorena 16:59

absolutely. And I, you know, to know our story and to know that This was not anything we ever intended or a vision that we saw for ourselves, which makes it such a, okay, yeah, God really does move in mysterious ways, but his plans are always so great. And again, we are so humbled. Thank you for your, your words. And I will definitely share those with Chris. It has been a beautiful journey. And as we further embrace how God has wired us and again, the timing in which. We gained this knowledge. It really was a beautiful thing. Sort of that assurance of you are who I created you to be. You are this way on purpose, and this is how you use it, um, in the very best beneficial ways. And these are those guardrails to be aware of, okay, when you're under stress. So you're, um, under, you know, unusual, um, You know, just an unusual season, whatever that might look like, um, this, this is where you need to kind of be aware, you know, um, steer clear, uh, maybe give yourself some grace because you, you've got these tendencies. And so all of those things, they are just so beneficial as we grow older to hopefully grow wiser. And I know that that is something I really want to be a part of my life is more wisdom. Yeah.

Type 9 Finding Her Passion

Beth 18:16

Okay. So I want to unpack your type now is the type nine and the journey that God. Has called you to in the last is it six years about six years seven? Yes about seven years. Yes It's 2016. Mm hmm. I mean Darina you have published eight books in seven years like that is remarkable, because I know what it's like to put a book together to be very strategic and thoughtful. And then just all the back and forth with the publisher. There's so many things that happen behind the scenes. It's not as simple as you just sit down and you, you know, you put something together and it's just, Oh, this is so great. And there's just a lot of work that has to be had. Um, and as a nine, So the nine, we talk about having this internal fog. It's like, what do I want? What are my passions? What are my desires? What are my abilities? And it can take a long time for that fog to dissipate enough to have clarity and to have the drive and the passion to really go for it. Talk about when that kind of wake up call for you and that you were really just going to push forward with this calling and what were the. The internal struggles to get from where you were to where you are today.

Dorena 19:35

So I think God was really kind in the path to becoming an author that he charted for me. Um, you know, the Bible for those who know the Bible and in the scripture talking about running the race marked out for us, you know, very much like an athlete or a track and field to be specific. Uh, And I didn't run track and field. So forgive me if I totally butchered the illustration. Give me grace because that's not really my lane. Um, but my understanding is of course, you know, that there is a lane and you must stay in your lane. Right. And if you step out of that lane, then, then there's just qualifications and all of these things. Um, and even this idea of, you know, you know, a race where there's, there's several people that, you know, you, there's a passing of a baton and their strategy and every part of that, of, of athleticism period. But in terms of, of, of track and field, there's strategy that has to be executed. And when I look at my path, I think that that. You know, not even knowing about the Enneagram, but loving the illumination of the idea of it there being this fog, this mental fog, this, okay, how do I press through and even own this is my path that was incredibly hard for me, one, because I was A grand middle aged woman at the time. So this wasn't me fresh out of college trying to figure out the career path. Um, yes, I, I spent time actually wishing that that had been my story and I look back and go bless my heart. That was not a good use of energy or time because. I cannot roll the decades back. Um, but that wasn't my journey. Many people have that journey. They aspire for something, they go to school for it, um, or they apprentice for it and then they begin that path. It was a calling that found me in my middle age, raising teenage and burgeoning adult children, going about my ministry life and the work I was doing. And God began to give me these story seeds. And so the, the, the first owning was. Oh, wait, I believe that what I'm writing in my journal isn't just another journal entry about life or about struggle or about what I'm praying for. I'm actually beginning to write down some ideas that I could see forming into a story, but wait, I'm not a storyteller. I'm not a writer. I'm not an author. And so there was this journey for some time of owning that what I felt God was giving me could actually be a story. And so I talk about those factors, my age, my season of life. Um, I also must insert being a black woman coming into publishing, knowing, especially in Christian publishing that, um, you know, there's still at that time was so much, um, lack of representation and the, the story seeds that I had were full of that were intentionally stories that would gift more. racial representation, infusing faith and culture in ways that had not been done in a generous way before. I'm grateful that now, a few years later, there's more work out in the world, both in the Christian market and in the mainstream trade market. But adding all those factors together, it certainly was Such a difficult entry point for me. And now that I understand being a type nine, I can look back and give myself even more grace and be thankful that I didn't give up because I was very tempted at several points when, you know, I didn't get the yes, or, you know, the reach out to you thinking, Oh, that would be so easy. That you can even see, I could even see all these pieces of the puzzle coming together, like in the story, that would just be so great. My friend Beth passed it on to this person and then wallah. And so when those things continued happening, there certainly was this place of, okay, do I deserve this? Can I own this? Can I really do this? And then the doubts come in and. Fortunately, I was not posting or sharing broadly on socials or with a lot of friends. I really felt God telling me that I was to develop this work in the dark. Very much as a farmer or someone who sow seeds, puts those seeds into the soil in faith. And the greatest work happens underground in the darkness, if you have, you know, if you will, um, in a place of secrecy where it's not visible the work that's going on. And so I believe some of that was because. It wasn't just my stories that were growing. It was me as a human, right? As a. As a woman, as a mother, as a middle aged, uh, person dealing with the things happening in culture and feeling like I was being given some seeds that could help bring a harvest. Yeah. And, and I've seen God do that, but it certainly was that, that boy, I'm not even sure how I can enter into this new space. And I think. I've seen the benefit now of being someone who loves to encourage other people who are coming, particularly on that ramp of owning the author journey and the gift of stories to share, because I know what I didn't have. And I know those hard places that, you know, where I almost gave up, but I didn't. And I just was like, okay, I'm going to press on in faith. I don't know how this is going to look, but. I'm just not going to quit. I'm going to keep going in hope that someday, somehow

Beth 25:31

it will come out. This picture just kind of entered my mind of Pilgrim's Progress and, you know, being on that path and having the two lions that, you know, deterred so many people and they ran back and ran away. And to realize they're chained, you know, and for you to be that faithful friend next to another person and saying, I know it looks scary. I know it looks daunting, but don't run away, keep going and press forward. It's so important. And I think that's, you know, that's really. The beautiful voice of the nine wants to champion others in their life. We want to spur them on, encourage them, be their cheerleader, because in our mind, the false message record player, one of the messages is don't assert yourself or your presence. Doesn't matter. Your voice doesn't matter. And. The Holy spirit has come in and through your life specifically through multiple means, you know, him himself directly scripturally, but also through friends, Chris and others that have said, no, Doreen, your calling matters. Your presence matters. This, this story and that story and this story, all the eight stories, you know, that you have, they all are important to keep moving forward. And You pressed forward, which is so hard for a nine, because again, any moment we get pushback or negative feedback or someone's unhappy, it's this, it's these big lions that you can't see that they are chained up. And it's like, Oh, you know what? I think I'm going to hightail it out of here, but I'm so proud of you pressing forward, trusting in God, using his strength to get these messages out there in such. A beautiful, tangible, easy to understand way for not just children, but for adults as well. Now, what happened the other day as we were talking is so us nines, again, we have this message. Don't assert yourself. Does your voice matter? Does your message matter? You know, um, And so we, we get stuck in inertia. So either, you know, what's in motion stays in motion. What's at rest days at rest. And so a lot of times we get stuck in at rest and that means maybe we don't have a passion. We don't know what we want. Um, what direction should I be heading? And so we merge, we go along to get along with someone else. Um, and sometimes that's okay. You know, there's, there's places for that, but there are also times that God. Initiates a new passion, a fresh vision for us nines. And all of the sudden we get ignited inside and we're super excited and we have to go, we have to press forward. And I talk about us nines being like elephants, you know, elephants are super communal, they're docile. They're there. In general sense, pretty easy going, but when they start stampeding, you better darn well, get out of the way because here they come. So the other day we were talking and you actually were in a new season of, um, inspiration.

Seeking Balance

Beth 28:47

And I want to talk about that because as a nine, what we tend to find is, and this is what I felt. I, the direction I wanted to talk about in this time, this kind of coaching discussion time, we really struggle with the word balance. Now, a lot of people might think, well, but you're easy going. Yeah, we're easy going. But when we're talking about motivation and drive again, we're either going along to get along, which is more not doing much. Or we're full throttle for me, at least, is because I'm afraid if I don't push full throttle, I might stop and not start again. So I'd rather go 150 miles an hour because I'm so afraid of stopping any moment. So the other day, I want you to tell us. Um, unpack a little bit of whatever you want about that story where you got ignited with passion and you're like, Beth, I need to be three people. I do all the things. And you're like, how do, how do I do this? So can you unpack that story a little bit?

Dorena 29:52

So I had one really. Amazing day and some folks may think that word amazing is, is out of place in the, in the context of also a funeral, but part of that day, um, so I'll, I'll unpack it. So, the beginning of that day was involving a funeral at our church. We had a church member whose mother had gone to be with the Lord and they didn't have local family. And so they asked my husband and our church if we could host a funeral. We were glad to do so. And so at the viewing time before the service, we are standing up front and, um, this church member's wife turned to me and said, Doreen, I would love to get some book recommendations from you because our young son is asking questions and I'm struggling to give him answers because this is his Nana who just went to heaven. And I trying to understand how to. Answer him when he asked where she at when she coming back. And so, you know, as an author, like what recommendations do you have? And that's not an uncommon question from people in our church or people in the community. Um, I'm grateful to be sought out for that kind of wisdom as an author. Not that I have all the answers, but just that people would even consider that I might have some resources to share. And I did, but what that question also started me where that You know, igniter got turned up is that I actually am at the process of querying a story about grief, a children's book, because it's something that's been on my heart for some time. Another relevant topic, as you mentioned, I love to approach those difficult topics with grace and truth and help connect the generations, the children and the parents. And so she had no way of knowing that her just questioned to me about, do you know resources that would help our young son. It turned on that ignition, and I continued through that beautiful funeral service and wrote down additional ideas about other stories on the funeral bulletin. And I don't want that to seem irreverent, but I wrote it on his mother's bulletin so that I would remember when those story seeds came to me. I like to document when, so that when I can go back. I know. Oh, that's right. Those things were swirling while I was remembering and hearing the beauty of this woman's life. And God was giving me stories that could maybe see the next generation. So I wrote those down. And so my husband and I left that funeral and headed back to Franklin to meet a sculptor friend. This gentleman did a United States Colored Troops sculpture that sits in the downtown square of Franklin. And my husband was a part of the team that did that sculpture and that helped to bring that momentous occasion to our city. And it was one of the highs of, um, that year, two years ago. It got over a billion. It was so needed. It was

Beth 32:53

amazing. Yes. So needed.

Dorena 32:55

Oh my gosh. The event, uh, garnered over a billion media hits. And so for the city, it was a big, like the biggest deal that our. for city of Franklin has ever had. And so this sculptor lives in Ohio. He has Tennessee roots and he was back in town just for that afternoon and had reached out to Chris to say, Hey, I'd love to meet you guys at the sculptor to have a little nostalgic moment. And Chris said, well, hey, we have a funeral, but we can come during this time. So we leave the funeral head to meet him. And as we're approaching, there's a group, as many groups come to downtown, uh, there's a group looking at other things in downtown and they kind of got swept into our conversation. And when they found out that the sculptor was there and one of the architects of that movement, my husband was there, they got super excited and it was kind of a star studded moment. Can we take your picture? But in the midst of that, what I wanted to tell the sculptor is that I was also working and working on a story about. That moment that will incorporate a United States color troop soldier and the history, the U. S. history of those wonderful black troops who helped turn the tide of the Civil War and believing that that's history that I didn't grow up learning and that I would love a new generation of that. All children to learn. So I wanted to tell that to the sculptor because I value his creative work in helping to literally create what's in our downtown. And so I'm standing there talking with him, asking him questions, and he's a man that's older than us. So I wanted his wisdom and he gave it in, in, Even more than I expected, like I took video clips and because I wanted to just be all in the moment and garner all of this and then we walked away and my husband looked at me and said, you are just full right now, aren't you? And I was like, I am. And then an hour later, I'm one conversation with you to talk about, you know, our preparation for this. And I was like, I'm writing this and I'm working on this. And today I got inspiration about that. And I need about three of me. To fulfill all the things that I want to do, because I, you know, there are times when you're going, okay, so Lord, what should I work on now? What ideas are in the background that I can develop? And then there are days like that when it's like, Oh gosh, Lord, can you turn the inspiration stick it off because it's right now and I just, I don't have enough buckets to contain it. I'm writing it down and I'm recording on video clips. And I'm writing on funeral brochures and collecting all the things so that I can come back to it. So that that fog, as you mentioned, that sometimes comes as an, uh, as a creative, you know, that I can press through it. And so your words about, uh, our, our wonderful nine challenges with. Balance or so fitly spoken to me because it was just a reminder that, yes, take a deep breath, sis. And, and, you know, prayerfully figure out what that balance is supposed to look like in this season where the inspiration is coming on strong. Yeah.

Overwhelmed with Opportunity and Responsibility

Beth 36:02

And what, what do we do with that? So I think let's, let's walk that journey together. So like you said, you're a pastor's wife, you're a mom of now adult children, but they're still young. Um, and so there's lots of things happening in their lives. You are an author and speaker. There's lots of things going on and yet you still have more calling. To unfold and to be done, and now God has dumped a bucket of lots of ideas. And so do you, I guess I want to ask this question of curiosity, cause I'm, I'm a nine, but that doesn't mean we're all exactly the same is part of your fear, similar to mine, where I love the clarity, the vision. The Oh, I know what I want to do, but I also at the same moment have the fear that I might not finish it because nines can get distracted really quickly, really easily. Uh, it could be because someone would like us to do something and we just go along to get along and we're just, you know, trying to help people or make people happy or it just feels good or maybe, um, someone has a need and we move over in that direction. All of a sudden our life gets really full or we get sidetracked enough where we think, you know what? I don't know. Think that passion really will pan out. I don't think My vision really needs to be captured. I don't think I need to do someone else will do it. And so we kind of stop ourselves. Um, so is that a fear that you have when it comes to I want to push so hard because I'm afraid. Of stopping or slowing down. Does that come up for you as well? Or is that is that just a me thing? I I

Dorena 37:58

don't feel so much that and I won't say never. Um, if I if I'm being vulnerable, I think my my wrestling is Is is literally specifically what I think of of the writing projects that gosh, everything is, is urgent. Everything needs to to come out right now. And the truth is that everything doesn't need to come out. Everything can't come out right now. And it may even be me asking. Am I supposed to be the one right to write on that? So there could be that fear of, um, of missing out, but acknowledging that, that that's not actually true. I'm not missing out because if I just sit back and look at my publication path leading up till now, there are stories that I would have thought would have come out years before they did. But when I look at the timing and who felt what publisher felt like this was the right fit for them, you know, they had the vision for that project, every book that I've released, I can see the timing that I released and see that that was the right time. And so I have to remind myself when I literally feel like, okay, I want to write. All the books right now, like exactly right now. And I know that's, that's literally not possible because this isn't the only thing that I do, right. To your comment. I am a wife. I am a mother of adult children, two of whom are married. And so they have additional layers of their life. Um, so I have two more bonus, you know, children that I get to interact with as well. And. And then I've got, you know, one at home that's physically still at home and community college, but physically in my midst to interact with, to cook with, to talk about schedules and life and things with, and then another that's in graduate school, but literally a text away every day. And so when I think about my life and my flow and the things that I'm involved in and keeping to your word, your keyword balance, I think from, from me. The guardrail is document in the moment when the inspiration comes document enough in a way that you can put that aside and then decide and prioritize what's the right now and then what's maybe later today and then what's maybe later on in the week. And so it's literally from a scheduling aspect, like, not that if I don't do it right now, I'm going to lose it or miss it. Yeah, rejecting that. And instead, you know, the scheduling and the prioritizing and part of it is just allowing the flow to go the way it will, which takes faith. And that's also maybe that's a Doreen thing, but that part, I would love to control all of the time tables that I know that I shouldn't. I know I'm ultimately not in control. Like I know this, but then I have to To actually remind myself, I, I am actually not in control of the destiny of all of these things. Like that's, that's above me.

Beth 41:18

And what is it when you get to that place of surrender and depend? So surrender to God's timing and depending on, you know, him working all things for his good and purposes. What does that feel like? And what does it actually do? As you move forward, then with more balance, Oh,

Dorena 41:39

gosh, Oh, it, it reminds me that, and this is a term my mom loves to say that God is the blessed controller of all things. And that is soothing for my heart. As a daughter, as a, as a daughter of a perfect heavenly father to know that he is ultimately in control and that, yes, there are things that I. Can be intentional about the use of my time, keeping my health, uh, prioritized so that I can execute, um, in the best way to your point mentioned earlier about what do I say no to, that's not as hard as it used to be, but in the beginning it was hard because I, I wanted to be out there doing it. Any and everything that I was asked to do, because you hear those words in your ear while marketing, while getting yourself out there and getting your message out there and all. And so the dance of, well, gosh, I have to say yes to it all. And so realizing actually know you. You don't. So there's, there's exercising that life skill of prayer because in prayer, God gives you clarity. He calms those anxious places and soothes the doubts and directs and says, okay, this is actually the wise. Direction for you. And this one is gonna be a graceful but firm. No. So that you can prioritize those things that you are to say yes to and then not to, because I'm a nine worry about how that person feels about my no Right? Oh yeah. I don't wanna, I don't wanna hurt their feelings. I don't wanna get them their impression that I, whatever. So, but yes, it to surrender is a reminder that God is a blessed controller of all things. Yeah. And that. My destiny, my path forward, my day to day grind, all those messages that come at us, God holds it all. And so I don't, I don't have to do his job. Right. And I, and I

Type 9 Connecting Parts

Dorena 44:06

need that.

Beth 44:08

And as you were saying all that, so in our book, More Than Your Number, what we do is we, we paint the picture that you... are more than just a nine. That we actually use all nine types to varying degrees. Definitely your wings. So for you, eight and one pop up and then what we call the integrand paths, those are the lines that connected to other numbers and for you it's six and three. But there's also something out there called the tri type now, those that are like, what is that? You know, that's a whole other thing, but, um, it sounds also like you use quite a bit of seven, um, and, but also, um, You know, I feel like possibly the three but the seven is like, I don't want to miss out like this. This is going to be so great. You know, we don't want to, we want to capture it now. But I think it's important for us to unpack what we call Enneagram internal profile or these parts of us to see how they derail us, but also how they bless us. So what I was hearing from you, the seven can derail you in your tritype. That it can derail you in the sense of, but I have to do it all now. And it's fun now and it's important now. And, you know, I don't want it to get bored and miss out. And yet it also can allow you to have the abundant joy that God gives you. But specifically unpacking your types of the nine, what I love is the sixth part of your heart is going. What it's going to bring to you, the gift that it's going to bring to you is the courage to push forward with the help of the three. So what the three will offer you, the gift it will offer you is a vision. So the threes know exactly where they want to go. It's very measured. They don't think they can accomplish it. They're not going to do it. So they are very measured and then they break it down into steps, into tasks, knowing exactly how they're going to get from point A to point B. And that can be a really big gift to you in this moment of balance, because the three is going to say, yes, we want to kill it. We want to do it quick and efficient, but we also want to do it really well and doing it really well is being measured and having goals that we know we can accomplish and being able to see them. And, and so the nine can access those parts, uh, the courage of the six, the, the efficiency and the task management of the three. And then the one is going to bring a sense of groundedness, a sense of principledness so that. And the wisdom, the insight of, okay, God is the God of all wisdom control timing. I can surrender, I can trust him, but then the aid is going to keep the charge of plowing the path for your children, readers, the adult readers, the vision that you've casted. And it's going to say, Hey, Darina, I've got you. Let's go. But in accordance, so in a symphony, if you will, of all of these parts together, and this happens when we are in our beloved Uh, state. So when we're in our wounded state, everything is topsy turvy and it's like, Oh my gosh, you know, and it's different for each of the types, but basically our wounded child is afraid again to our own types reasoning is afraid and we feel like we have to gain control and we try to gain control in our own ways, but. This is where the beloved child says, no, I am his beloved and all that I've ever needed now. And in the past and the future has been taken care of by Christ. And therefore I can bring these other parts of me. So again, the eight, the one, the three and the six, and it can assist arena. As she gets out there and blesses others with this incredible voice of the nine that brings harmony, empathy, grace, um, receptivity that the world absolutely needs right now. And so does that feel true to you? Like the, how I painted that, does that feel like that those are the parts that rise up in you? Yes,

Dorena 48:24

absolutely. Gosh, I, I wrote a few notes down, but 100%. You know, I, I have all. Often reckoned with the joy that has come in doing this work. I tell people I really did love raising my children when they were little, but I feel like now that my youngest is 19 and that I'm writing for children. I feel like there's a childlike wonder and joy that flows out of me that I don't. I think was there when they were young, as much as I loved it and was on their level and doing all the things with them and, and fully like enjoying that, like not wanting that to go by quickly. But I absolutely enter into the joy and the honor that it is to write stories for children, because I understand the opportunity to shape, to impact their little minds and their hearts. Yeah, it's a privilege to think that the words that I give to the world are actually going to help victims about other people about themselves being an image bearer of God. That they will learn to love their neighbors. Well, and and maybe be better able to resist the lies that are going to come at them. And so when I think about that, it fills me with joy. And then I also feel and you mentioned this. I want to craft with so much care because of the privilege and the joy that I've been given. And I and I've actually lately been praying particularly about the United States colored troop soldier story because it's incorporating history. And I've said so often to the Lord, I've mentioned to my husband, I just want to do it right. I want it to be done so well. And even in that I can take comfort. It's a blessing of having had a path of doing this now I can take comfort in knowing that Editors are gonna help that so I will do the very best I can like it's not like oh, I'm gonna be sloppy now I've been really been exercising a lot of care

Beth 50:38

But

Dorena 50:38

now I'm gonna just kind of throw it together like that's not gonna happen You're not gonna get a book contract if it's If it's thrown together and if it's not an excellent work, a worthy work, but

Beth 50:49

also they come alongside to benefit us. That's right. So we're not alone. I don't have to do it all. It's not

Dorena 50:56

all up to me and the whole universe. And if I don't do it, it's going to crash like freeing myself. And so reminding myself of that so that then I can craft and write with joy. With the care that I know I'm going to put into it, um, while I just ask God to, to breathe through me, to inspire me and to flow through my hands and my heart and my head as I work. And so, yes, everything you said, it felt like it just brought together in concert, um, the need to, yes, to be organized and, and I found those creative ways, like, even if it's being present. In the funeral and yes, listening to my husband eulogize and also as thoughts are flittering to jot, jot little notes and to jot them on the, at the top of her brochure so that I'll be able to look back and even be able to see and in time. Lord willing, be able to share with this precious family that their mom's journey was even part of the story because now I also know that the story behind the stories are beautiful and you need to be able to embrace those and document those. And so learning what that looks like for me, um, sometimes it's a capturing a quick voice memo as I'm driving because I can't write it down and I don't want to depend on. Being able to remember it in the course of a day and the things that happened. So that's been part of that organizing is figuring out what works for me. You know, I can watch webinars and hear other people's wisdom about how it works for them. But then you have to decide. Okay. Is that actually. Is that how I flow? Like, am I trying to become someone else or do it like someone else? Or am I figuring out how it works for me and then flowing in that so that that keeps me free, that keeps me focused, that allows me to capture the inspiration and feel more organized. So then when the right time comes to work on whichever project it is, I have that, um, I have the space ready to go back to it. And so, um, I think again, giving myself grace that that's part of the nine struggle is, is having to kind of press through, you know, the inertia, whatever that might look like, but also, okay, you know, this is how you're wired. So doc document it, have it. Have it down and ready. So when the time comes, then you're ready to pick it up and move forward.

Beth 53:25

Yeah. It just sounds like so much grace and wisdom as you've gone through these. Like so much learning and, and that's the thing, like we just, all of us, we've just got to trust in the Lord and get out there, do the next right thing. And that's definitely for us nines. Um, tell us a little bit more, you know, as we wrap this up, what, what your hurdle is right now, what you're jumping into, and then how can people also, as you're. Navigating that, wrap it up with telling us where people can connect with you and maybe like one or two of the books that people, you know, really, um, go to a lot because it means so much to them that you've put out there. So I would

Dorena 54:13

say the hurdle right now, um, you know, being back in the cycle. You know, publishing as a cycle. So you write and then it's queried, whether you're doing that or an agent is doing that. And then a publisher says, yes, we, we want to work this project with you. We want to put this out into the world. And then you go through the life cycle of that. And sometimes it's more than one book at a time I've worked on. Three books at one time, actually, which was a lot of fun. I looked back and go, how, how did that happen? But it was actually a lot of fun. So now my hurdle is being back in that, that querying place. So I have work being queried and I also, as I've described, I'm writing and not lacking inspiration, you know, since your conversation in mind, there's another, Oh, I think I want to write about this. And so I documented it, did the things I know to do and. Put that on the shelf. And so there's no lack of inspiration and it's a joy, but the hurdle is to execute well to trust because the querying cycle is completely out of my control. I cannot enter into that and make that happen. So that is publishers making decisions and and it's a place of faith again. Because I've been here before, and I know that the waiting is an interesting timetable because it's not precise, right? I wish it were on October 1st. You will absolutely have a word. That's not how publishing works. The hurdle is also waiting. And trusting again, that the good work I've produced that there is the right home for that work and also continue the writing that I'm doing, um, but those are good hurdles. And I'm grateful for the opportunity to write and to prepare more seeds to. So, um, I'm grateful for a full fall and going into winter of opportunities to. Speak in different settings, um, in schools, conferences, and to share the wisdom that God has given me. And in, in those modes as well, um, in terms of the books, I'm delighted today. I didn't think about this when we scheduled today, September 20th, but this is the first anniversary or book aversary, as they call it, of my book, brown baby Jesus. So it released last year on September 20th. And when I realized that on my calendar, I was. So I was still with joy again, and I went back down memory lane and thought about, um, you know, when you're marketing the day that a book is released, you typically do, you know, some big, you know, posts and, or, or lives or things like that. And so it released in September 20th, a book about baby Jesus. And so I was fixed on finding somewhere to take a picture with the book that looked Christmassy and that can be a little bit of a challenge in September. And so I was remembering that we went to our local Cracker Barrel because they already have Christmas trees decorated and I was like, okay, and I'm looking around like a lot of people watching me, like, what's this that you're doing, taking a picture around the Christmas tree, but that's what we did. And that's what we posted. And so I went back through the memories of, um. All of the beautiful boy, we did a lot of work. Every book is a lot of work, but that book was a lot of Bible study and, um, concordances and, you know, different Bible resources and historic resources to make sure we captured first century. Egypt and Bethlehem correctly. And so that book is really special to me today because it's been out in the world for one year. And, uh, although it's a, uh, a Christmas story, it's really a year round celebration of the people. In Jesus's genealogy and his family tree that God designed, particularly those beautiful women and how that's a reflection of all the people that Jesus came to save. And so, um, so I have to highlight that 1 because today's that special that special day. Um, and then I think we're going to also put in the. resource notes. Um, my latest release, I know who I am. We've got some fun ways to put that message out for families and churches. So on my website, there are several free resources that parents can print out their, you know, things you can download, print, or your church can print and you can, um, laminate, but some wonderful little cards that. Um, you can put in lunchboxes or put on the mirrors of your little use it as you're on your way to school or church to remind them of their identity in Christ and to expand their world view to see Children all over the world. Um, and so that was really a joyful celebration to put out into the world. And I'm excited to just. Let your listeners know that they can really take a trip around the world through the spreads that are in that story and, um, and again, be able to use, you know, free resources and share those with their, their church and their, um, their leaders and their communities so that kids can, can be encouraged and affirmed to know who they are.

Beth 59:32

Love that. Such a perfect book for a nine to be speaking on. Um, okay. So where can people, uh, find your resources and stuff? Yes,

Dorena 59:43

absolutely. So I would love for folks to go to my website, darinawilliamson. com, and the resources can be downloaded there. I love to receive reach outs on socials as well. I'm on Instagram the most, but I'm also on Facebook because my mama is. I'm here and there on Twitter on the X, you know, it's. It's a little, it's, it's different. Let's just say that nowadays, but I do hop on there at times as well. So, um, would love to connect with people and serve in any way.

Beth 1:00:12

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being here today, just as a, a dear friend. Um, thank you for your inspiration and. Really just as a night, I just want to say thank you for getting out there and doing it and continuing to do it. I know it can be hard and exhausting for us nines, but it's so worth it. So thank you so much.

Dorena 1:00:34

Absolutely. Well, thank you again. I am so encouraged and energized from our conversation. Thank you for just reminding me that I am created on purpose and with a purpose. And, uh, I hope that this conversation is an encouragement to others out

Beth 1:00:48

there. Absolutely. Thanks. Well, I trust that you enjoyed experiencing the profound impact that the Enneagram can have when we're talking about a person's personality type, where God has them, where they're wanting to go and the hurdles that they're experiencing. And I hope that you can see how having a trained Enneagram coach can really highlight and hone in on your personal dynamics. And so if you're the kind of person that's going, man, that. Clarity, that self awareness that was really brought up during this conversation. I want a certified Enneagram coach to help me specifically. And that's what we've trained our Enneagram coaches to do. They're going to really dial in and help you to have the clarity and the insights that you're looking for, but tailored to your specific Enneagram type. So if you want to find the perfect coach that fits you go to my Enneagram coach. com. But if you're listening, you're like, man, that's really fun to talk about the Enneagram with someone and help guide them. Well, maybe being an Enneagram coach is the next step for you. And if so, get our free mini course at Enneagram. com. Uh, your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course, and just get a taste of what going through our certification program is like. But in that course, we're going to give you some real tips that you can use right now. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us today. I hope that seeing through the lens of Enneagram coaching can be really fun and inspiring. And let me just share with you some of the thoughts that I had as I was talking things through with Darina. So one, you kind of, you probably heard me bring up the type seven towards the end, and I hadn't had the time to really explore her, um, tri type. Now, if you are out there and you're like, what is the tri type? Well, I just recommend that you go listen to Catherine Favre on YouTube, but it basically says that you have a main type in one of the triads and then two sub main types and the other triads. And this isn't talking about the lines that you're connected to or the wings. Um, though, of course, those are there too, but. It sounded to me without confirming with her that seven is a pretty big part of her. Now it's not her main type, but seven is like, Hey, I don't, I don't want to miss out. I want to get after this. This sounds really fun, but life is full, right? She's got lots of things that she has to also do. And therefore she is not only as a nine wanting to either be in motion all the time or chill out all the time, but that seven part of her. Amps up the, we've got to do it all right now. And so I wanted to highlight that because the understanding of how these different parts of us, because we use all nine part are all nine types to varying degrees, but having that insight also lets us to normalize it to also to, to recognize and not to be ashamed or put it down or. Or the fact that she doesn't have to miss out that there's a part of her that feels anxious to get out there and to do it, to not miss out. And she can tell that part. It's okay. God in his perfect timing has got us. And it's great that you're capturing all these thoughts. It's great that you are writing them down so that in due time, we will get after it in due time. He will set in motion what needs to happen. And that's where the type one part, her wing can come in and say, Hey, Let's be present principle. Let's be systematic. Let's be wise and how we go about this. And then the three again is going to say, Hey, let's write it all down, map it out. We will accomplish it in his due timing. And that six, I love my sixes because they give us the courage to persevere when there are hard times. And that eight part of her heart is going to plow the path. While the nine, which is the one that's leading the pack is going to bring the encouragement, the insight of all nine types. To her audience so that each of them that's reading it feels blessed and spoken to. Well, that's a little bit what's going on in the back of my mind. And I want to highlight those things for her so that she can go, yes, those parts are operating in me and they are a gift. Well, next week we are going to be joined, um, with a really fun, um, a guest. Lori, um, is the founder Um, simply be organized. Now what's amazing is she takes the Enneagram into her clutter coaching, right? So if you are a type of person that you're like, I need some help with organization or decluttering, she actually brings it into a customized, tailor formed on your Enneagram type. So I can't wait to unpack that next time. And as always remember the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder, because it's the gospel that transforms us. Thank you guys for joining me today, and I can't wait to continue exploring the Enneagram so we can join together in our journey of transformation. So I'll see you next time.