Beth 0:04

Hey, this is Beth and this is Jeff, and this is your Enneagram coach, the podcast where we're here to help you to understand yourself with astonishing clarity so that you can break free from self condemnation, fear, and shame by knowing and experiencing the unconditional love, forgiveness, and freedom in Christ.

Jeff 0:23

Today, we have a very special guest with us, both personally and professionally. We're going to be talking with our friend, Megan Hyatt Miller, the CEO of Michael Hyatt Company. Megan's going to share her personal experience with the Enneagram and how Michael Hyatt Company has utilized the Enneagram for business and professional growth. Hey

Beth 0:44

Megan, it's so great

Megan 0:45

to have you on our podcast. Hey guys, it's so fun to be here. Thanks for having me.

Beth 0:51

Yeah. Well, a lot of people don't know the connection that we have. So let's just kind of start there. So

Megan 0:57

really your Enneagram coach would not exist had I not met you.

Beth 1:03

So many moons ago, I was Megan's personal assistant and I loved that job, but the. The, really the intriguing part was what you guys do at Michael Hyatt and company changed my life and enable us to do all that we're doing with your integrant coach and all the people that are listening right now, there's just no

Megan 1:24

way we would have been able to

Beth 1:27

get the message out of hope and transformation without you, your dad and the team. So just want people to know how it all started. I was your personal assistant and then jumped over and was your dad's personal assistant for a while. And then your new grand coach. really

Megan 1:41

started taking off and I had to say

Jeff 1:43

goodbye. I still remember the day that she called and said that, Hey, do you know the Hyatt's? Cause I think I just got a job with the, with the daughter.

Megan 1:53

That's so

Jeff 1:53

funny. And I've been reading, um, your, your dad's book, uh, on platform, uh, for some mediation stuff that I was doing and so thrilled. And what was so special about it is you guys were so generous. So allowing her to blossom. So that was you

Beth 2:11

and Joel. Well, it was really fun. So, you know, while I was, you know, helping to take care of a lot of things at your house and just getting to know your family, the job allowed me to listen to all

Megan 2:20

that you guys were putting out. So everything on platform university, everything on your YouTube channels, your podcast,

Beth 2:28

all of this incredible content that

Megan 2:31

other people just don't have the privilege daily jobs

Beth 2:34

to absorb. And then there was one day I was like, huh, I wonder if we could do something similar with the Enneagram. And that was kind of the beginning, the birthing in my mind of getting all of this great

Megan 2:47

content out to others. I just want people to know. How we got to know each other,

Beth 2:51

I got to be blessed by your family, watching your kids grow up. Um, of course there's some, some are older, some are younger, um, but just kind of being a part of your family was just so special and your parents as well. I always tell people like

Megan 3:04

they're the real deal because you

Beth 3:05

know, sometimes you're around people that have great influence and you don't really know what's going on behind the scenes. That's right. So the Hyatt family,

Megan 3:13

they're the real deal. So just thank you so much for the opportunity, the care, the love that you guys gave us all those years. So anyway, I just want to thank you for that. Thank you. You guys are so sweet. That, that is so fun to kind of like relive that story and remember how it all began and it's such a blessing. First of all, to have you in our home during that period, uh, helping us, you know, that was a really critical time after we had adopted our middle boys with five children, ages 19 to one now. But at that time it had been just a few years since we had adopted our boys and it was so helpful, you know, and so it's, it's great that that blessing was able to be reciprocated, uh, and, you know, reciprocal and that we were able to help launch you into something, um, that gosh has helped to. impacts so many people now. So tell

Jeff 4:02

us a little bit more about what you and Joel do, um, with Michael Hyatt and company because it, your, your personal story kind of overlaps. Well, not only just with your dad's story, but his professional story as well. And so tell us about how you guys met and your, I mean, you've told us a little bit about your family, but then how that translated into your professional life.

Megan 4:24

Yeah, so my dad and I are in business together. We have a company called Michael Hyden company, which is a performance coaching company that helps, um, really high achieving leaders and their teams, uh, get the vision alignment and execution that they need to, uh, achieve something that we call the double win, which for us means. winning at work and succeeding at life. So, you know, there's a lot of people that talk about how to be more successful professionally, how to grow your business, things like that. But what they don't often talk about is how do you do that successfully while also making sure you're succeeding in other areas of your life, like your family and, you know, your most important relationships, your health, your investment in your communities. spiritually, all those things we really want to be about helping people accomplish a holistic version of success that addresses all important parts of life, not just like this one dimensional success that often comes at the expense of everything else. So Transcribed We do that through a few things. We have a physical paper planner product called the full focus planner, uh, which has been really successful. And we also have a, an executive coaching program for business owners called business accelerator. And then we do one on one and corporate. Uh, training. So one on one coaching and corporate training. So those are kind of the main areas of our business. And it's been really fun to watch it evolve over the year. Since we met each other, a lot has changed. A lot has changed. Yeah. Um, we're really grateful for the impact that we've been able to have. So that's, that's a business. I remember

Beth 5:58

when you guys were brainstorming the full focus planner. I mean, at the time I was working for your dad and we got shipment after shipment of all these different planners so you guys could brainstorm like what works, what doesn't work and really consolidating the best of what you guys offer. And to see it now, because I have it, I even have the Megan Hyatt edition with

Megan 6:20

the bold colors, which I love.

Beth 6:24

But to see it in person and to then execute it is really remarkable. So I just highly recommend the, the full focus planner and then the tutorial videos that you guys have really was helpful, um, to, because if you don't have that, it can be a little like, okay, what do I do? You know, I mean, cause, but you have. Purpose and meaning for every little category. It's not just a planner. It has purpose and meaning. And so those tutorials were really helpful for me and making sure that I was dialing into exactly how to use it correctly. Now, of course, the goal is to use it all the time, which you know, as a type nine. Is something that moving to my three is

Megan 7:03

very helpful to have. A lot of

Jeff 7:04

thoughts about each type using the full focus planner.

Megan 7:08

Yeah.

Jeff 7:12

There's all kinds of interior stuff. That's going on that help them to Excel or how they face certain challenges. Now, what's interesting about your story to, Hyten company is that. You guys have a relationship with Ian.

Beth 7:29

Mm

Megan 7:29

hmm. Yes.

Jeff 7:31

Ian Cron. That's right, with Ian Cron. So, before Beth started working with you guys, um, Yeah. Ian was writing his book, The Road Back to You. That's right.

Megan 7:42

Dad's backyard. Yeah. It's so fun. So Ian is one of my dad's best friends has been just a great friend to our family for a long time. And so really, you know, my journey with the Enneagram, my husband, Joel, you know, mentioned Joel, um, Joel and I discovered really the Enneagram through Ian and our relationship with him. I mean, when, what year would that have been? I'm thinking that would have been at least five years ago. I'm trying to remember, you remember that conference that we went to at Otter Creek Church together? Yes. Um, that time that he was speaking there. I'm, so I'm trying to remember when that would have been. It was, it predated that somewhat, but it was around that time. So five years ish ago. Yeah. I

Beth 8:22

think it was 2015. Cause I remember you even saying, Hey, you know, my, my dad has a friend and he's writing a book on the interim. Cause I think I would mention to you like, Hey, do you guys use the Enneagram? And you're at the time you weren't, cause you didn't know it. Um, right. And I was like, Oh my gosh, someone's writing a book on the Enneagram in the backyard of Michael Hyatt. Like this is intriguing. This is exciting. Cause at that time I'd been using the Enneagram for about 15 years. And so I wanted to be able to like pick his brain and everything. So yeah, it was about that time. Yeah. So how did

Jeff 8:53

that land on you guys learning about the Enneagram?

Megan 8:57

Well, it's so funny. So I remember going to that event. So I've been reading prior to that. Richard Rohr was kind of my introduction. So I'd read parts of his book and didn't really land on a type. I think when I went into that particular conference, I thought I probably met type one. Um, I really had that sense of the critical inner voice. And, you know, so I was pretty sure I didn't really, there were parts of it. I didn't resonate with like the rule following thing. Wasn't really so much me, which, you know, Knowing that I ended up discovering that I'm really a four makes sense. But at that time, that's kind of what I went in with. And I remember trying to figure Joel out. I don't think he went with me that first day. And I like took all these notes. I thought for sure he was a nine. It's so funny to me now. Cause he's a five and he is definitely, if all you have to do is see the number of books in our house to know for sure he's a five, it's like that would be the fastest diagnostic, you know, ever. Um, but. Uh, I thought he was a nine and I remember telling Joel some of what Ian said and he was so offended. He was like, That is, I just like, I can't even like wrap my head around that. And I think it's so rude and condescending. I don't even know if I've ever told Ian this story. It's so funny, but he was just like, there's no way that that's me. Like he was just offended. And he was like, I don't even know if I buy into this whole thing. You know, like he was just like rejecting the whole thing. So that's how it started. We were both mistyped, you know, and, and just kind of had to figure it out. But then we ended up, um. Talking with Ian, reading a lot, and really kind of got into it. I remember hearing at that conference Ian talking about fours and the funniest thing that I remember that he said was that um, you know, you will always know a four because there's always some some thread Figuratively or literally of purple. Like there's just a lot of purple with fours. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that's my entire childhood. Like that's everything, you know, everything I ever had was purple growing up. I was like, this has to be something. So that was kind of how I had an inkling that I was a four, but really fast forward. It wasn't until I was. so torn up about like, am I one, am I a four, you know, just such an existential crisis, which again is so four of me, that's like, this was happening. It was just all hilarious. But I ended up having a one on one, um, kind of consult with him and just saying like, I really think I'm a one. And he pulled out Beatrice Chestnut's book, um, the complete Enneagram. And he. opened up the part about, um, uh, for the, the, uh, self preservation for the counter. Yeah. And he just said, just read this and tell me what you think. And I was like, Ian, how did you know? He's like, allow me to explain this concept called subtypes. And anyway, at that moment, I was like a hundred percent, every box I'm checking this. This explains my entire life. So that was super helpful and Joel, I think somewhere probably before that figured out that he was a five and it's, you know, as I said, it's funny to think we ever thought anything different.

Jeff 11:54

No, this is just a, a curiosity on my part, but, um, we were just staying with another family friend that you guys also shared the Andersons, uh, Steven Anderson, we were staying in their cottage and I know that many of the Hyatt team did their one on ones with Ian in the cottage. Yes, they did. What did you have your one on one

Megan 12:15

with Ian in the cottage too? No, we actually did it on zoom. I mean, he was in the cottage. I don't know why we didn't do it in person, but we did it on zoom. It was so very 2020 of us way back then.

Jeff 12:25

Yeah. It's kind of funny to think. So we were there for several months and then the crunch just moved back in cause they're in a season of transition as well. It's like this. Enneagram Nucleus cottage that's happening in downtown Franklin.

Megan 12:37

I have one more part to that. I actually lived there in 19, uh, let's see, no, 2006, 2005, 2006. I lived there before I moved to Colorado for a little while. So great things happen. I mean,

Jeff 12:50

just, it's just amazing. That little

Megan 12:53

cottage.

Beth 12:53

So much has come from it. Okay. So. So you just answered the one question we wanted to ask, but I think you probably will have another answer to it. So the question is, you know, do you have a story from your childhood that really highlights you being a type four? So you said the purple, but is there something else that you can look

Megan 13:11

back and go, yes, I can tell you. for sure. Okay. Okay. So, so funny. I didn't even think about this before. So I think one of the ways that I knew I was a four was that shame is always kind of like the undercurrent for me, you know, and if, if I were on with my husband, Joel, he would tell you that, you know, if I have a bad day, I can just do this doom loop where one thing leads to the other. And it turns into that, that thing that. you know, the Enneagram experts call interjection, where it's like, you know, I've, I've turning inward on myself, I've weaponized, you know, whatever is happening as though it's something wrong with me. And so I remember, um, some friends of my parents who lived in Texas when I was born in Texas, uh, I was probably like six years old or something. And I remember going into their house and they were kind of intimidating to me. They were kind of like intellectuals and. What, for whatever reason, I mean, I was sick, so maybe everyone intimidated me, but they have these like doilies on the back of their chairs. Okay. Like kind of like old people would have, you know, like your grandparents might've had, except they were my parents age. Anyway, it seemed like very fancy to me. And I remember as a little girl that I put my hand. On the doily, but I'd like never been in anybody's house that had doilies on their furniture. And I was convinced in that moment that I had done something horribly wrong. And I just started apologizing like profusely. Like I just had this like wash of shame, you know, come over me that I was like, something was wrong with me that I had done something wrong. And I feel like that is a feeling I have had many times in my life, you know, more well concealed as an adult, but that feeling of being out of place, that feeling. of not knowing what to do, even though on the outside, you know, I might look like I have it all together on the inside. Oftentimes there's some kind of serious self doubt that is kind of in play. And I think that, um, over correction in that moment as a six year old or however old I was, it's kind of a good caricature of what's happening even today. I mean, I feel like I've grown a lot for sure, but, um, You know, that can still happen to me. So, it looks different on the outside, but it feels the same on the inside. Yeah, so true for everyone, right? Now,

Jeff 15:23

there are a lot of, um, parents who will hear your story and wonder how do they parent their four child in those moments. What do you think eventually, how did your parents adjust to this kind of shame spiral for you to help you with that?

Beth 15:46

Hey, did you know that you can learn how to walk with people through the Enneagram and see their lives transform right from the comfort of your own home while making an incredible income? Well, find out more by going to YourEnneagramCoach. com forward slash BEC. There you can become a certified Enneagram coach and help others discover just how God made them to be. Again, it's your Enneagram coach. com forward slash VEC.

Megan 16:22

Yeah, I think it was hard. I'm the oldest of five, so, and there was almost 11 years between me and my youngest sister. All, all of us are girls, which God bless my parents. I can't, as a mom of five kids, I only have two daughters, one of whom is only a year and a half old. I can't even imagine five daughters. It's kind of crazy. Um, but you know, it's, uh, I think they were like. kind of bewildered, you know, my mom is, uh, an enneagram nine with a very strong one wing. My dad is a three. And I think for my mom, like my, the depth of an intensity of my emotions was like blew her hair back a lot of the time, you know, I mean, I think she was just like, Whoa. And so there was just kind of a lot of like, when I, when I was younger and in my teen years, I think just the challenges of trying to manage. those totally different personality types. I think we have both really grown in our ability to appreciate each other and kind of make space for each other. Uh, my dad and I are just more naturally alike. And I think that was. It was easier for him, but I think it was, it was hard. I mean, I think they did a great job of encouraging all of us to be who we are and give expression to that, you know, but I think the emotional part of it was tough. And so I would say, you know, I, I think one of my children, my 17 year old stepdaughter is a four also. And you know, I think that. Just knowing that there's going to be a lot of intensity and that the background question all the time is, is there something wrong with me, you know, it's helpful to know. And that, you know, you really do have to make a lot of space for those feelings. Right. And also, I think as hopefully, you know, as we mature to challenge those of us who are fours to get out of ourself, you know, I think that's, there's a, that's a hard balance as a parent, you know, but I think that that's, um, at least that's kind of the coaching conversation that is in my own head, uh, with myself these days. And I think as I'm parenting, um, a daughter who may very well be a four, you know, that's in my head as well. So I can totally see

Beth 18:28

where you're coming from, you know, having parents that are nine and a. Three, you know, the nines, we like to keep our emotions and everyone else's emotions kind of like in the middle, a little happy, a little sad, but nothing too much, you know, so we're really trying to navigate that and predict it and channel it. Um, well, even

Jeff 18:46

thinking from the perspective of a three of her dad, like emotions are a liability,

Beth 18:50

right? Yeah. And so three is kind of pushing your emotions and identity aside to take on a persona. I can see how as a little girl, it.

Jeff 18:59

You were God's gift to your parents. Yeah. Opening

Beth 19:02

the emotions, opening the depth.

Megan 19:05

Yeah. I was definitely, uh, like a lightning rod in that way, probably. Bless their hearts to have their first kid be a four, you know, gosh, a lot. Yeah.

Beth 19:17

Well, okay. So now that you know you're a four, self preservation four, and do you feel like you have a stronger

Megan 19:23

three wing, five wing? Definitely a three wing. Yeah. That's what I was guessing. I Yeah, I can certainly, um, kind of have that researchy part. And, and I would say I have a, I really am introverted. And so, um, I don't, that part of the three does not exist for me. Um, I knew for sure I wasn't a three because I don't have that. desire to be a performer, you know, in this, um, business kind of succession plan that we have, um, between my dad and me, it was very important to me that, uh, I would not kind of be the sole face of the company. I'm certainly happy to do some of that, but it does not come naturally to me. I've had to like, Learn to embrace that and step into that and own that space where I think it really did come naturally for him, you know, um, so, so the five part sort of shows up for me and that desire to just, you know, keep it quiet. Like I get overwhelmed kind of from a sensory standpoint if it gets to be too much, which also happens for my husband, Joel, who's a five. Um, but definitely my wing is, you know, I'm like 99 percent three wing, not sure. That's a technical way of describing it, but

Beth 20:32

and, and so then how have you used the Enneagram, uh, in your personal life? And then also in your professional life, what's

Megan 20:39

that look like? Yeah. Well, the thing that I always tell people about the Enneagram that I appreciate the most is that it gives us a common language in our relationships. And I think that this is true for me both personally and professionally in my marriage and my conversation, uh, conversations with my family. So my whole family of origin is really into the Enneagram. So everybody knows what they are. We all know what ours is. spouses or significant others are, you know, so that's just a regular topic of conversation. I think it helps to explain differences in a way that doesn't make them good or bad, you know, it just, it just makes us unique. And I think that's helpful because so often our conflicts come. Through our differences when we assume that one is better or worse, you know, or we're trying to reconcile those things instead of just make space for people to be who they are. So I think that's been really helpful. I also think it's been helpful to have a language both for myself and with So In relationship with others for growth. Um, one of the things that I really care a lot about personally and professionally is growth. We, I mean, really our, our whole company exists to help people grow in many ways. Um, and I think that the Enneagram gives you kind of like a shorthand for an individualized path for your own growth. So I love that, you know, I think that helps me know where I'm likely to get hung up as a leader, uh, where I'm likely to get hung up as a parent, as a spouse. Um, We have gone so far as to have Ian come several times to teach our staff and also our clients Uh about the Enneagram in years past and so it's a kind of a common language within our company as well And you know, I think that that's helpful to explain why we do what we do naturally Also, how we need to grow. I think the most important thing as an, as an organizational leader is that the Enneagram, I've seen it kind of used in good ways and bad ways and where it's bad, you know, is if people use it as an excuse to just. So, um, that's that's that's a lot. And it's that's that's a lot of the time where we feel like, you know, we can't have this The only way we can has to be the pro gram. So if it makes sense, I don't know if I know this already, but in the first year that I was in this program, I worked in the public sector, you know, I worked in accounting. As I mentioned, I'm an attorney at the time, so I didn't really need a professional term at the time. for spiritual and personal development. So when we

Beth 23:10

train, we always say, don't use it as a sword or a shield. And,

Megan 23:13

Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's just, it's so

Beth 23:15

true. And it's not just a sword towards others. It could be a sword towards ourselves. That's right. You know? And so often we see our struggles and we just want to heap on self condemnation and shame and, and that only makes us spiral out of control all the more, but yeah, totally. I've heard people say the same thing, like, well, Jeff, I'm a nine sometimes, you know, I'm just kind of. You know,

Megan 23:35

procrastinator.

Jeff 23:36

We still do that with one

Megan 23:37

another. We do, and then we call each other out on it.

Jeff 23:41

One of the questions that I had, uh, so I had a little bit of time working with customer support with, uh, Michael Hyatt and company. And one of the things that Beth and I noticed, and some people are curious about is that cultures can take on a bit of the personality of its leaders. And Michael Hyde and company and in light of several different threes that are on the team has a little bit of a three culture to it. Um, what was it like for you being a four trying to be yourself, but also in this three culture, what was that like for you?

Megan 24:14

Yeah, it's funny. It's definitely not the dominant number that we have anymore. I actually think eight might be almost the dominant number. We have a lot of eights. We have a lot of female eights, which is really cool. I love female eights and I love that our company is like a safe and welcoming place for them to. Come and share their gifts. I think that's really awesome. Um, but real actually we have quite a diversity of numbers at this point, but I do think since my dad is a three, you know, whatever number, uh, the leader is, or the founder is can often kind of create that flavor, you know, within the organization, I think for me, you know, my dad and I began talking about our succession plan. So he is now the founder and chairman and I'm the CEO here in just a couple of. And, uh, congratulations, by the way, thank you so much. Um, it was really important to me that. stepping into that role if I was going to do it, that I could do it on my own terms. Like that was the language I used a lot. And I think one of the things I appreciate the most about my dad is he really understands me. I feel like we have always been close. Um, and he, he's a great listener. He's very, um, empathic actually. I think he has probably as big of a four wing as I have of a three wing. So, you know, we're sort of like flip sides of each other in some ways. And he just really made space for me to figure out what it meant to do it on my own terms. And so it's, it's kind of like part of my job is to take what he's done and, and carry it forward, but it's also to make it my own. And so I think that both of those things have to simultaneously coexist. And I really appreciate the, um, just kind of the endorsement and the encouragement to do that from him. And so, you know, like I said earlier, part of what that looks like is I don't want to be the single personality in the company. You know, um, I also am not the productivity geek that he is, you know, I I'm very productive in my own way, but I have a different way of being productive. It doesn't look the same. I don't love, you know, apps and technology like he does. And we, we often joke about that on our own podcast. You know, he's like, he's like, let's fight about it. You know, he's Always like, let's fight on the podcast. So funny. Not really ever fight, but, but he always thinks it'll make for great podcasting. Um, but anyway, you know, so like, just kind of my own way of doing things. I'm a very open-hearted transparent leader. I'm less polished, I'm less kind of formal, you know, and part of that's just the, the difference in our season of life and, you know, our age and all that. But, um, I don't know. I, I think. Just kind of figuring out what does that feel, what feels good for me and authentic because I knew that no matter how successful I was, if it didn't feel authentic, it wouldn't last, you know, and I care so much about this company, you know, that I don't, I don't want to betray it by, um, you know, not going the distance. So I knew in the interest of the company, I had to do it on my own terms in a way that would have integrity and would be authentic. Um, and I think we found a way to do that. That's good, good for me and good for everybody else. So you guys use a

Beth 27:22

lot of great assessments, StrengthFinders,

Megan 27:25

Colby, I mean, you name it,

Beth 27:28

Enneagram. So

Jeff 27:30

it's a great one too, Beth. I don't know if you've

Beth 27:31

heard about it, but what is it? So in light of all of those, you know, assessments and personality tests, Um, how do you guys use the Enneagram in a different way? What sets it apart?

Megan 27:45

Well, I don't think we use the Enneagram as part of a hiring process, for example, because I think that, you know, maybe it would be too strong to say that it would be unethical because sometimes people tell us they know that we're in the, in the Enneagram. And so, for example, I just hired a chief of staff as part of my transition into this new role and she's an eight, uh, and she is fantastic. She has like. All the horsepower I could ever need. It's so amazing to have somebody I could just pitch to. And she's like born, born to catch. She's ready. Um, yeah. So, so she shared that right off the bat. Now sometimes people do and they don't, but we don't really use it in our hiring process. It's really more. for self knowledge. So it's something that in the past we've provided to our team in terms of professional development, really personal development in a professional context for people to just understand more about themselves. It also is something that we would use in coaching our employees and just kind of having intelligence around that. I just think that it's, it's almost like it's such a powerful tool and it tells you so much more that is. way outside of a professional context. I mean, you are just, you all of a sudden have like x ray vision into somebody that I think that it's, it's really important to steward that knowledge with wisdom and care because you can hurt people with it, you know? And, and so, um, so that's why we don't use it. It's, it's not like we go into a position when we're going to hire somebody and say, um, You know, I need a chief of staff. Therefore, this person has to be an eight. I have no idea, you know, theoretically, that person could be any number, there probably are given that position, some numbers that would more likely gravitate toward it. But we don't want to be biased by that on the front end, you know,

Beth 29:31

right, exactly. Yeah. And, and people ask us all the time, you know, okay, well, so an engineer must be a five, right? And I'm like, no, any type can be an engineer, you know, but yes, could there be some attributes that Each type has that could benefit them in certain areas. Yeah. I mean, could they also have liabilities? Sure. Yeah. Um, but I think that's really wise that you guys, you know, not use it as a hiring, um, you know, process and like you said, gosh, if we do not use it right as leaders, it can really be detrimental. But at the same time, if we use it really well, it can speak volumes to our team. Like we have a type six who, um, Yeah. Yeah. Works outside of the company as a, as a contractor. And, you know, unfortunately the past people that were doing some of the behind the scenes tech stuff, it kind of messed up a few things. And so we had to get that corrected and, you know, he was faithful and responsible and got in there and did it, but he never said, Hey, I just want to make sure, you know, this wasn't me that made this. Mistake. You know, he just faithfully got in there, but it would be really important to six is fear being blamed or targeted. And so I just went in there and I said, Hey, I know this, you know, the initial thing was not your fault. And I'm so grateful that you were faithfully getting in there and just Speaking the language of his type. And he came up to us at a dinner and said that that was so powerful and meaningful. And so we can really use it for good if we know where they're coming from and how to speak into their life and really help them to excel right where they're at. But again, you can do that. Complete opposite. If you use it in a way like, you know, weaponizing it. So I'm, I'm so glad. And of course, that's how I felt with you guys, you know, at Michael Hyatt and company, like you guys just always, you know, really helped us to Excel right where we're at, not trying to become something that we're not. And that was always really. really

Megan 31:22

powerful. Yeah, I mean, I think what we're after, you know, from a professional development standpoint is we want to take kind of the raw materials of our team members and help to develop those into their fullest potential. You know, we kind of want to enter into a partnership with our employees to help them become all that they were created to be not to kind of make them in our own image, you know, that's not the goal. It's really that we want to take who they are and help that blossom and, and, and reach its potential. So I think Beth, what you said is just perfect. Um, being able to speak in that language and understand motivations is so helpful when you're trying to communicate. If, if nothing else, you know, that, that is a huge, uh, huge leg up. Yeah, exactly. Well, when

Jeff 32:08

just observing how you've Or, um, brought the Enneagram to your team culture, uh, by having some workshops and then by even providing one on one coaching, maybe typing interviews and some just an initial steps to take once they find out their type. Um, what else have you found that has really been. helpful as an organization and installing the Enneagram into your team culture. I mean, the, the easiest one that everyone goes to is that put your number on your zoom video or something so that everybody knows it all the time. But what have you found has really, really helped?

Megan 32:45

Well, I mean, I think that we just use it as a common language. I think that we have been very clear about what we're going to tolerate and not tolerate with regard to, you know, that kind of weaponizing shield, you know, kind of thing that you were talking about a minute ago, you know, that it's, that it's all about just operationalizing it. And I think what that looks like is talking about it. And so I think we talk about it pretty frequently, um, probably less than we did, you know, back several years ago when it was brand new for us, but, but we do talk about it. And I think that that, um, comes up as a great way to appreciate people to understand who they are. Um, and, you know, it's a shorthand in getting to know people who are new to our team as well. So, I mean, I think beyond the bringing in the training, reading books together, um, the most important thing is just that you're talking about it and just. That you're using it as a, as one of many tools to understand yourself and, and one another better. And I think

Beth 33:44

even like when, you know, as leaders do reviews, I think it's even great just asking the hard questions of, Hey, has there been anything that we have done or said, or even the perception of that has really landed on you in a way that. Seems hurtful or maybe you're not understanding or you feel, you know, criticized. Is there anything that we can do to kind of bridge that gap? You know, and I think that's a hard question to ask, but I think if we realize, Hey, a lot of us are trying and it's just like love languages, right? We try to love someone the way we want to be loved or, and same with anyone we're trying to. Uh, communicate or relate to people the way we want to be related to or communicate to. But a lot of times we miss the mark and so just opening that up, I think that really speaks volumes as leaders to, to say, Hey, I'm not going to always get it right. And that's okay. But I also need you to communicate with me where I might be missing it, obviously, kind of way, where am I missing it? And how can I better communicate? How can I reconcile? How can I restore anything that may be off a little bit? And I think when, when employees here. us do that and they can see vulnerability and humility, man, they're just willing to go the distance, you know, for the leadership, for the team, um, the community as a whole and just the products that we offer too.

Megan 34:58

I think that's really true. And one of the things we talk a lot about with our coaching clients and our business accelerator coaching program is the necessity of self awareness as a leader. And one of the things that happens, uh, the more your company grows. The more successful you become as you become insulated from people who will tell you the truth. And that's a problem. That's a real liability. Um, especially if you care about growing, if you care about reaching your own potential and really being able to make a meaningful contribution. Um, you know, when you were talking about that, Beth, I was thinking that one of my favorite books on this topic is radical candor by Kim Scott. Um, it is a fantastic book and she talks all about how to give and solicit. Candid feedback within your team. And we've done this at Michael Hyatt and company. It's now integrated into kind of my one on one rhythm meeting rhythm with my direct reports, where once every six months, I'm asking them to share candid feedback with me about my leadership. Um, because I figure nobody's closer to me than they are, you know, in that regard. And I need to know what they're thinking. I need to know where it's not working. I need to know what needs to be shifted or adjusted and. You know, too often that kind of feedback is happening one way, um, from us as leaders to our, uh, our team and we really miss a lot of the intelligence that we can get, um, that ultimately helps us to have self awareness.

Jeff 36:24

You know, one thing that, um, Another benefit of being around, um, the whole Hyatt team was the, the idea of limiting beliefs and self sabotage. Now, I had been a pastor previously, and so I had other spiritual language that I used for that concept, but as Enneagram, there are. Certain ways that I interpret my experience as a leader that can actually be harmful when my team is actually trying to advocate on my behalf, but I am the one who needs to get out of the way because of my own beliefs or, um, Limiting beliefs. Yeah. Limiting beliefs. So helpful. Uh, particularly in how the Enneagram has addressed that. Uh, Beth's term, I think the common term is, uh, uh, the Enneagram is a nonjudgmental friend. It just kind of says it, it's not personal. You're like everybody else with that particular personality type, uh, which it can be both disturbing, but it can be redemptive and restorative because it gives us insight to where we didn't have it before.

Megan 37:34

Yeah. No doubt.

Jeff 37:35

So one of the significant things that I remember in our time, um, with The Hyatt team was best year ever. Um, matter of fact, we had the opportunity to help, uh, I can't remember what we were doing, but we were working the event, the live event, but we got to sit in on it and it was so

Beth 37:53

hopeful. We were sitting next

Megan 37:53

to Ray Edwards. That's right. That's

Jeff 37:55

right. We got to talk to Ray Edwards. That was so fun. Oh, fun. We love Ray. Now, tell me about the history of Hyatt. Hi and company and it's focused on goal setting how that all came about and how long you've been

Megan 38:06

doing it. Yeah. So we have been doing this since, uh, gosh, probably 2014 I think. Um, and. You know, my dad has had a proprietary goal setting process that he kind of built over, you know, series of decades, really, that he had come to rely on. And as I came into the business and I was working with him, and at some point I just said, Hey, we need to make this a course. People need to know this. People basically. Only know how to make New Year's resolutions. And what we know for sure is that is not working. We'll try it every year. And they need to know this process. We'll try it every year, even though it never works. And it feels great for like 48 hours and then you're onto something else. Um, so anyway, we, we launched a course back then. It's so funny to look back at the very first version that we did. We shot it, um, up in, uh, Canada with our video producer at the time. And it was just all thrown together. And, you know, it's like, that was our first draft and it was, it was great, but it's, it's just been something that's been super successful for us. And I think the reason for that is because we take people through a research based. step by step, five step process, actually, to set annual goals. And at this point, we've had over 40, 000 people go through this Your Best Year Ever course and have had extraordinary results. And many, many, many people go through it year after year. Many people go through it with their spouse or even with their teenage or adult children. Uh, my own teenage kids love it. They were, they're so excited, uh, to participate that in that process this year. So anyway, that's kind of where it's

Jeff 39:44

awesome. Now, what are some of the biggest things that, uh, having done this since 2014, thousands of people haven't gone through the program. What are the big highlights of here's what really makes it work and here's what's going to get in your way. Yep.

Megan 40:00

Well, a few things I would say, and you know, this is a year, unlike any that we have seen before, that would probably be the understatement of our lifetime. And, right. And one of the things that we have seen as we have been engaging with our audience through this year is one of the casualties for people of 2020 has been the future. People are so in that survival mode. It's like to use your language. It's like we're all collectively in this low side of, of a six kind of place. You know, there's so much anxiety. There's so much focus on basic needs. There's so much focus on, you know, what bad thing is going to happen next. The people have stopped thinking about the future. They have stopped really believing in a possibility of the future. And so I think that Part of what our course, Your Best Year Ever does is that it helps people, first of all, to believe in the future. Again, we call that believe in the possibility. And we really, um, you know, talk about all that, uh, the idea of how our beliefs about the world shape our reality and ultimately, you know, our beliefs shape our actions, which shape our results. And so we talk a lot about that and how you can ultimately believe something more empowering. And I feel like this year that has never been. more necessary, you know, um, but I also would say that's not enough, you know, you need to believe in the possibility, but The second step in our process is to complete the past and we have to have some mechanism, especially after 2020 for processing what we've been through, you know, if we If we don't have a way to make sense of the the tough parts of the year We've just completed and really kind of put that To rest then it's very difficult to move the future. Um, so that's the second step. So we have believe in the possibility and then complete the past. And then what we really want is people to design the future. That's our third step. That's all about setting smarter goals. And so often what people think they're doing is setting goals, but what they're really doing is just kind of expressing an intention or an aspiration. And it's really not framed up in a way that ultimately they could take action on it and achieve it. And so for us, a SMARTER goal is something that is specific, it's measurable, it's actionable, it's risky. So it has to be risky enough to get you out of your comfort zone. It's time keyed. So you have a date that it's due. It's exciting. So it's inspiring and it's relevant to your season of life. So this is where we make sure we don't do things like sign up for an Ironman. We just have a newborn baby and our spouse is ready to wring our neck because we're training all weekend. Right? So we have to consider where we are. In our life. So this smarter framework again specific measurable actionable risky time keyed exciting and relevant Is kind of the the bedrock of the program. So you use that to set your goals Um, you're not going to set more than 12 goals for the year because focus really matters We don't want you focused on more than three per quarter Um so that you can actually get it done, you know Sometimes people set like 30 goals for the year and that's just a recipe to fail Um, but once you've got your goals, you really want to be connected to your why you want to find your why so that you can tap into the motivation that really matters to you, not the matters to somebody else. It's really important from the research. That's gotta be, you know, intrinsic motivation. Yeah, absolutely. And then finally we help people get a plan. So that's it. I bet

Beth 43:37

you guys find that. I mean, at least, you know, even with the Enneagram, what I find is people are always looking to their left or to the right. Like what goals are they setting? What are, you know, what did they do? What should I do instead of focusing on you? And I don't mean that in a selfish way, in a really healthy way of who has God created me to be? What are my gifts? What are my struggles as a nine? I know, man, I can. Plan my full focus planner, like a champion, but I can get distracted so easily. Like if I hear my goals and then all of a sudden someone wants to do something different, then I might accommodate or people please, or go along to get along. And I've got to make sure that, you know, it's in step with the goals, with what I feel I'm called to. I just have to really watch. Now, sometimes it's good to accommodate. But, you know, that's, that can be a really healthy thing, but I have to, I have to really think it through and weigh it out to make sure is this the right thing to accommodate to, or do I really need to stick with that goal? And it can, woo, it's a slippery slope, but all growth is uncomfortable, but it's also really

Megan 44:46

good.

Beth 44:47

So Megan. Insane all that as a type nine, when I'm setting goals, like I said, I can do like the best of them. And that's me moving towards my three and having some confidence and asserting myself. Um, threes are just so good at setting goals and getting them done. That's where I need to be. So as a type four, where have you found going to one in your growth path? Where has that really benefit you, but also it's going to be hard. Like I said, it's a struggle. Where has that been helpful for you to lean into that

Megan 45:19

one space? You know, I think that every now and then I feel this internal conflict about whether or not my rituals and my habits are restrictive, you know, because there's part of me that just kind of likes to fly by the seat of my pants a little bit. Um, I'm, you know, pretty naturally productive. Um, so I don't really struggle with procrastinating very much. Uh, but sometimes the structure can feel constricting. And what I think I have discovered the older I've gotten is that habits are such. A lifeline, you know, that really they make our life, especially as a busy mom with five kids. I mean, you know I've got a lot going on in my life That it helps me to do the things that really matter to me without so much effort And so i've learned to embrace habits, for example Um, one of my goals this year was around exercise consistent exercise Because I've done pretty well on that throughout the years, but this year the first half of this year really Was not good, you know, toward that. And probably a lot of us got off track on that. And so around the summer, I really picked it back up again. And I just decided, you know what, I am going to do this habit six days a week. I'm going to, I'm going to exercise six days a week. And what I found is that the more disciplined I was about doing it at exactly the same time every day in the same order in my morning ritual, that it became really easy. And I, I kind of discovered the. I would say the benevolence of, uh, discipline, you know, that there is, there's just kind of a, a kindness towards ourself when we use discipline, not as a weapon, you know, I think probably in the past, my shame, you know, propensity plus. Uh, that that desire for discipline sometimes we're not a great combination, but I think as I'm maturing, I'm figuring out how to do that without the shame. Um, has, it's just really a kindness because it enables me to have the things that create the kind of foundation that keep me in a place of equilibrium. So I would say that's really where that one going to one, you know, from a place of health is really beneficial for me. Yeah,

Beth 47:23

that's so great. And I think it's so beneficial for people to, that's why the Enneagram so helpful is because it shows us where we can get tripped up and how to get back on our healthiest path. So I always talk to people about using the Enneagram, like a rumble strip on the highway. You know, if we're. If we're falling asleep at the wheel, if we're distracted or whatever's going on and we start to veer off, even if it's ever so slightly, eventually you're going to land into that pitfall. Um, and we do that so often, but if we can set up those rumble strips of like, for me, someone asked me to do something that's not in my planner or my goals, I need to think through, is this. The right time to accommodate, or is that me just people pleasing and using that as a rumble strip to alert myself to have self observation and then to decide, well, is this the right healthy path or am I veering off course? And even sometimes pulling in Jeff or my team to ask them those clarifying questions, because sometimes I'm. too close or I just don't see it. Um, and so that can be really, really beneficial. As I was

Jeff 48:25

thinking through tons of incredible points that are so helpful in thinking about goal setting, but as a type six, as it comes to routine. So part of, so I was adopted and, uh, my mother, my, Uh, adoptive mother had an illness. And so not only did I have my own kind of dysregulated internal world, but I had a mom who wasn't there to help me to learn how to regulate it. And so what that ended up meaning is that I became my own parent at a very young age. And one of the things that, um, you know, one about completing the past, there's a part of my past that I'm still living out in my present that I need to survive. And whether that's, that's buying books on Amazon. My family laughs at me whenever Amazon starts showing up at the door cause I'm buying books out of anxiety. Um. Um. And so there's that part of it too. But then as it relates to the future, the survival mentality, I don't like routine because it eliminates options. Oh, interesting. And so if you're running from, if I'm trying to find security, I want as many options to find safety. Right. So I've always thought of routine as, that's just limiting. Options. If I need to do something right now, what's fascinating and it speaks exactly to your point, Megan. Whenever I find routine, my heart calms down, right? Totally. My mind calms down. It's actually, it's, it's almost like a, a child having boundaries from a healthy parent. I know the track that's laid for me. I, um, it's like

Beth 50:16

to the nine side, Jeff routines, peace.

Jeff 50:19

Routines for a nine,

Megan 50:24

it's tricky

Jeff 50:25

because a routine could be kind of this resignation to life. Like, I'm just going to do my thing and do

Beth 50:31

it. We have this standing joke, like Jeff, if you would just come to the healthy side of my

Megan 50:35

time,

Jeff 50:38

but you're exactly right, Megan. I mean, there's, there is this. sense of how each type has an experience of routines that either can prohibit their ability to walk in health and awareness, um, or, you know, it could be a frustration point where it just reminds them of these repeated unhealthy patterns of the past.

Megan 51:01

Right. It's kind of like, um, I was thinking about when you were talking, it's almost like swaddling a baby. You know, I don't know if you guys remember, I don't know if that was a thing when your kids were young. I, yeah, I didn't start out with, with young kids. I started out with older kids and then worked my way backwards to a baby. Like many things in my life, I've done it completely backwards, but I know with our youngest daughter, who we adopted. as an infant that, you know, we would swaddle her when she was in the NICU. She was born really, really prematurely, and it was so calming to her to not have her arms and legs flailing around all over the place. You know, after all, she was born at 27 weeks. She was supposed to be still in the womb, you know, and so I don't know. I think that's kind of analogous to us as adults and how Routine and rhythm and even dare I say discipline, you know, that's almost like a four letter word if you're a four, um, can really be, as I was talking about a kindness and that it, like you were saying, Jeff, it just calms us down and helps us to settle into our life. It actually creates more freedom, not really restriction in a lot of ways. Well,

Jeff 52:06

I, I don't want to belabor the point too long, but, um, what if, uh, The artist that I really appreciate is Jackson Pollock, uh, who likely a four, very expressive in his artwork, but it was during moments of discipline and sobriety that he created most of his best work. Whenever he was more self absorbed and indulgent is when he got pushed off and he wasn't as productive as what he could and he didn't produce as much. Um, it is interesting too, I will say this, uh, I, I use this as a illustration for just It's not an easy task. life. But, but when you go to Chipotle versus Cheesecake Factory, you know, Chipotle, you know, like you're going to get a burrito either in a bowl or tortilla or, uh, salad, right. But you're going to get a burrito versus, um, Cheesecake Factory where there's so many options. And what you end up doing is just picking the same thing that you've always picked because there's too many options. And the reality of the. There are rhythms to create that God has given us to operate at our fullest, and we can accept those rhythms and to recognize that we're going to have a response, uh, to them. And what's

Beth 53:13

great with the Enneagram is it's, it's going to highlight what those rhythms and routines Are for you and your Enneagram style. That's why the Enneagram is so great. It's like this foundation that everything else can be built on, you know, whether it's goal setting or cleaning your home or parenting, whatever it is, there is this foundational understanding of why you think, feel and behave in particular ways, what gets you off track, what keeps you in your healthiest path. And once you kind of understand that, then when you do start reading, you know, like a Michael Hyatt book on productivity and. Or platform or living forward. Like all those ones that I've really gleaned so much from, I can now filter it through my nine mind. What is going to be the most beneficial for me as a nine, even though this was written by a three, you know, what can I glean from him that's helpful for me, but also what do I need to tweak to make it really beneficial for me as a type nine. And that's where I think people can really get derailed fast is when they read books or they hear. really great, you know, it could be sermons or teachings. They think I have to do it that way precisely. And I don't know if you've probably seen that probably all the time is that people really try to follow an exact method and they get

Megan 54:27

off course. Do you see that a lot? We do. And you know, Kind of on this topic of goal setting. One of the things we hear a lot from people is we will have the, uh, the goal setting spouse in a marriage will be really drawn to our, your best year ever program. And there'll be like super excited about getting their spouse. to set goals too. But you can imagine this does not always go so well. And what often happens is that the non goal setting spouse, you know, maybe that's somebody who's a nine or maybe there are four or five, I don't know. You know, you could probably tell me the numbers that are the least inclined toward goal setting are resistant toward it. And it can really be a problem in their marriage. However, we've also had some of those same people. We, every year we usually do something around couples, um, and goal setting as some kind of a, an add on or bonus or something along with the course. And this year we've done the same thing of couples in different stages of life. That's included with the course. It's really neat. Um, but. What we found is that when people can find their own reason for goal setting, you know, that, um, is motivating to them when they can really get connected to their internal motivation, which is often very, very different if they're two different types, you know, um, I mean, my, my own parents are three and a nine, my mom. Never wanted to set goals until several years ago, and she kind of finally was able to do it on her own terms, not goals that my dad wanted her to set, or she felt like the kids wanted her to set, or somebody else told her she should set, you know, she really figured out what did she want? And that was very powerful for her. And now she is like an evangelist on goal setting, because it's been so meaningful for her to be able to make things that matter to her as a nine happened in her life. Yeah. And that's been super empowering and it's been really special in their marriage for them to encourage each other to very different approaches to the same concept. They're using even the same methodology and, and that your best year ever curriculum, but they're doing it in different ways. And I think, you know, if you're married to someone who maybe doesn't share your enthusiasm for goal setting, or you're someone who thinks, yeah, that goal setting thing just isn't for me. It's really about, you know, designing your future. It's really about what kind of life do you want to create? And goal setting is just a tool to help you get there. Um, and it's not something that's only for say any gram threes or any gram seven or eight, you know, the aggressive numbers, you know, it's not just, yeah, it's not just for those numbers. It's really what you bring to it and what you're kind of how you're willing to listen to yourself and get in touch with what matters to you. So important.

Beth 57:01

When I, I will say I've learned something new about you, Jeff. Oh, really? Yes. It's awesome. That's just,

Jeff 57:07

it's therapy. You changed our marriage, Megan. Thank you.

Beth 57:15

So all these years, we've been married 25 years and I'm the one that wants to be the goal setter, you know, because. Intuitively before I knew the Enneagram, I just knew that I do better when I have goals or I, I follow a plan as a nine cause I can get off track and I can end up either doing nothing or I'll just follow everyone else. So I've seen just naturally that I do better with goals. And so I'd be like every new year's like, okay, let's sit down and like, let's write our goals and mission statements and all these fun things. Um, knowing that when Jeff usually is, um, on a path. We go, you know, like he is kind of a force of nature. Like we're just going to go. Um, but he was always reluctant to do this. And I was so frustrated. I'm like, this is important to me. Like, why aren't you doing it? But today it totally made sense that. Did you not know that?

Megan 58:02

I asked you for years. We've

Jeff 58:05

paid thousands of dollars in therapy.

Beth 58:11

I mean, it's just like. Oh, you need lots of options, or you need an escape hatch, like, what if this isn't going to work? What if this isn't safe? I mean, I mean, I probably could have intuitively known that, but no, you've never

Megan 58:25

verbalized that.

Jeff 58:27

I've known it this whole time.

Megan 58:28

Exactly.

Beth 58:32

Like all marriages say, no, but I think that's so, but this is where the Enneagram is so helpful because as a nine, it always kind of felt like I've said, this is important to me. It's important that we set goals. Cause if I don't have goals, I'm just going to wander. And it felt like you, not that you didn't care about me, but that you didn't see how important this was to be my champion. And that's kind of interesting. I mean,

Jeff 58:59

that is such a nine interpretation of my response.

Beth 59:03

Right. Right. And, and I was always wanting to know, cause I knew, I know your heart that you're really for me, but it was always like, well, but if you know. If you're for me and this is important, like, why aren't you doing it? But now it's like, Oh, and that's why the Enneagram is so powerful. Cause I can go, you saw it from a totally different angle. It was more of a threat to you than it was empowering or helpful. And now it just makes me go, Oh, okay. Now we've learned how to navigate our own goals, you know, as we get older and do our own thing. But Um, but this would have been very helpful 20,

Jeff 59:38

25 years ago. I'd love to ask you about Megan is, okay, we, our nation, not only have we been going through a lot of chaos this year, but now we're going to add to it a season of failure. We're going to start setting new year's resolutions, knowing that we're not going to do them by the end of January and feel even sadder about our lives. So, but I, I love this about. Completing the past and designing future because it, there is a temptation. I've noticed it inside of me. I wonder if it's true for everybody else, but there is this holding pattern until vaccine, until something substantial changes, I can't plan my life. So we've got, I've got past failure that. I fail in particular ways as a type six plus just feeling like I have unstable foundation underneath me. So what are some of your thoughts about reluctant goal setters and who facing failure, face an uncertainty and coming to the near, what advice would you have for them?

Megan 1:00:41

Well, I mean, I just appreciate you giving voice to that because I think that's how a lot of people feel. And if you're listening to this. and you're listening to Jeff and you're thinking, man, that's me. You are not alone. You know, I'm just here to tell you, I've talked to people about this all the time. And this is just kind of like, what's in the air that we're all breathing right now. It has been a truly traumatic year in so many ways. And for some people that's capital T trauma, you know, for other people, that's lower T trauma. And so I think, You know, I always like to say it's important to know if which category you're in and whether or not you might need some professional help because, um, probably now more than ever there, there is a real need sometimes for somebody to walk through processing. If it has been that capital T trauma, if you've lost someone you loved, or you lost a job this year or something like that, you know, that those that you may really need a professional to walk. beside you. And I think that's so valuable. I've done that many, many times myself. I've been in therapy on and off for about 20 years, and it's just kind of part of my self care, you know, and I think that that can really be beneficial. So I think that's always important to say at the beginning, just because goal setting is not a substitute for therapy. So, you know, we need to make that clear. Um, but I think that part of what's necessary when that's the backdrop is you have to have a process that engages the narrative of the year, the reality of the challenges that you face. That's why we start with beliefs and that believe the possibility. first step and then we go into, um, really processing through, you know, completing the past that you can't really get to designing your future unless you do those two things. You can't get to the future unless you are kind of trued up to the present. So that's one of the things that I would say in terms of my advice is use a process that takes you through these steps so that you're able to ultimately come to the part where you're designing your future and then you're finding your why and you're connecting with your plan about getting there from a place of. Of, um, kind of doing business with these things and being able to have a fresh start because, you know, I think every year we have in the research, it's called the fresh start effect. You know, like every year we have this kind of milestone feeling of this isn't a fresh start. Um, but I think this year, you know, people are really feeling, they're anticipating that in good ways and bad ways. And the truth is, and I think this is the hard truth. Not a lot may change in 2021. You know, we may get through half the year or more before things substantially change. None of us know. I mean, mercifully, hopefully things will be faster than that. However, I hope what people discover in this goal setting process is there are certainly so many things we can't control. And I think that is, you know, if I had anything that was kind of like my subtext of 2020, it would be, you know, there's so many things we can't control. But on the other hand, there are enough things that we can control. That you can have a different experience of 2021, even if the circumstances were exactly the same as 2020. You just have to understand how to kind of put your arms around that and walk into it. And, and that's what I hope for people with regard to goal setting is goal setting can be a tool to take your future back regardless of what the circumstances are. Absolutely.

Jeff 1:03:55

You know what I love about that is that sometimes whenever I hear literature, I mean, this is a very six suspiciousness, uh, thought, but, um, and, but it. It's an appreciation because sometimes whenever I read stuff about productivity or I read about goal setting, I think of triumphalism, not Trumpism, triumphalism, to be clear, but kind of this, you can be a hero, you can transcend, but that I, I did not hear a hint of that whenever you were just like here, if you need to grieve, make it your goal to grieve during this season. And if we're not, you're not going to get, you're not going to be able to somehow transcend the pandemic, we're going to experience some element of powerlessness, but your experience of your own personal life, the life of your family in the midst of difficulty can be radically different. And if you can capture a vision for what it is that you desire, your why and the what and the how that you're going to go about it. And so this isn't, this isn't triumphalism. This isn't heroism. This is, this is simply you being at the fullest. of your humanity, of your God given self, that you can be in a season such as this. You

Megan 1:05:23

know, this reminds me of the Stockdale Paradox, and this is, this is such a great concept. So this is a story about Admiral James Stockdale, who was a prisoner of war, um, in the Vietnam War, I believe, and he was held for a long, long time, and he saw many people come and go, many people. Who went had died, right? Um, that they did not, they did not make it and they mostly did not make it because they died of a broken heart. They said things like by Christmas, we'll be out and Christmas would come and go and, and they would be heartbroken. And so what he discovered when someone was asking him after he was finally released. How did you make it? He said, you know, I did two things that made it work. First of all, I confronted the brutal realities of my situation. And so there was no denying that this was a torturous, awful situation that he was in. But he said, I simultaneously never lost hope that I would prevail in the end. And I think that Stockdale Paradox is such a great model for 2020. On the one hand, we have to own and be real about the brutal realities of our situation. And it has been brutal. And at the same time, we have to never lose faith that we will triumph in the end. And that is really, I think, kind of what makes up resilience. And that's really what we're talking about here. Oh, I love that

Beth 1:06:38

word. Well, and with that, um, what are some resources that or programs or courses that you guys have at Michael Hyatt and Company that you offer people to really, you know, take these next steps? What can

Megan 1:06:50

you offer our listeners? Yeah. Well, the thing that I would say is the best place to start is our Your Best Year Ever course. Um, that is going to, there's several different versions of it, but that's really going to walk you through this five step process. Um, that I've talked about today. And you know, you can do it with a spouse. You could do it with a friend. You could do it over zoom if you're not able to be together with people. But this is a powerful process that will result in you having not only a set of annual goals that you are personally really connected to and excited about, but a plan for accomplishing those goals. And so you can find out about that at best you're ever dot me. Slash limited. So best you're ever. me slash limited. And the reason you want to put that slash limited is because that's a hundred dollar off, um, link. So you get like the special inside track link.

Beth 1:07:42

We'll put it in the show notes too,

Megan 1:07:44

but yes.

Beth 1:07:44

Don't forget that. Yeah. Anything else you guys have that, you know, like books or resources that you want

Megan 1:07:49

to also highlight? I think, I think that would be the best thing, you know, once you've set your goals, if you're really looking for a way to make sure you stay on track with your goals, that you have a process for operationalizing those, the full focus. planner, um, which is our planner product would be the best thing for that. We actually created it because we had people asking us for a solution to help them keep their goals in front of them all year and really take their annual goals and ultimately chunk those down into a quarterly focus and weekly objectives and the daily tasks. You know, how do we make our daily tasks related ultimately to our goals? And so that's what the full focus planner does. And that's just full focus planner. com. That's great.

Jeff 1:08:25

Megan. It's been. Wonderful. And, uh, it, it, this is a significant moment for us in one sense, because it, uh, all of this began in your home and for it to come this far, I'm like, holy cow, man, this is, this has been a crazy ride for us being here in Nashville. Highs and lows and then highs again. We can't speak. More highly of you and what the Hyatt team has meant to us because it, it was such a gift from our father for something that laid dormant for decades. I mean, 2001 is when we got Richard Rohr's book and it just, we quietly. Didn't take action. And, uh, being Beth, being around your team, my wife woke up to a dream and she went for it. And so super grateful for all that you guys have done and continue to do. And we're so delighted that you joined us

Megan 1:09:19

on our podcast. You know,

Beth 1:09:20

I always tell your parents, like I just put into action, all the things that you guys have taught. I mean, maybe not everything that you've taught, but I don't know

Megan 1:09:27

all of

Beth 1:09:30

it. All that I could muster up, I just was like, okay, they said, do this and let's do this. And they said, do that. Let's do that. And it just, it's worked and it's been beautiful and it's been a joy. Um, But not only that, I think, you know, Jeff and I just want to reiterate how not just the productivity side and all the things that you guys have learned, we've learned about leadership through you guys, but just watching your team, watching you guys as leaders, um, being authentic and real and literally doing what you guys say, you know, like when. When you guys teach a method, I see you guys are doing that method behind the scenes. And I just think that that speaks volumes, um, to your leadership style and just who you guys are as you know, people and dear friends. So just thank you so much for. Being such a huge part of our personal life, but also how your Enneagram coach got started. Now, all the people that are listening get to be blessed as well. So thank you.

Megan 1:10:29

Well, thank you guys. I mean, it's just amazing to hear that story I feelso privileged to have gotten to be part of your story. And you guys are making an incredible impact on the world for good. So thank you for listening to that voice inside of yourself and taking that risk. That's something a lot of people don't do. Um, and there's so many people who are better for it. So, Thank you guys.

Beth 1:10:51

We hope this interview was as helpful to you guys as it was for us. It's a strange time 2020, right? To be thinking about goals coming up in 2021. It feels like it's impossible, right? But it's important to have a plan and to be aware of what causes us to fail. At our goal setting

Jeff 1:11:10

process. So being aware is key, and we're gonna continue this conversation next week by walking the wheel with each of the nine types. So join us to learn about your type specific goal killers, how to recognize them, and how to move past them in order to reach your goals in 2021. But always remember this, that Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder. It's the gospel that transforms us.

Beth 1:11:52

Thanks for listening to the podcast. If you're enjoying this content and you want to take the Enneagram journey to the next level, we invite you to check out our free Enneawhat mini course. In Enneawhat, I teach you about the Enneagram, how to find your type, and how to use the acronym AWARE. to help you to more effectively apply the Enneagram to your life. To get started with EnneaWhat Mini Course, simply click in the link in the show notes. So don't miss out on this opportunity to unlock the power of the Enneagram with our free mini course. Again, thanks again for tuning

Megan 1:12:26

in and we look forward to supporting

Beth 1:12:28

you on this journey.