Beth 1:12

Hey everyone. Welcome to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I'm Beth McCord, your Enneagram coach and at YEC, we desire to help bring real and lasting transformation into your lives and your relationships. And as we go deeper, we want you to understand what is going on internally so that you can be on the healthiest path possible. And how we do that is we help to train excellent Enneagram coaches. For a lot of you, you are interested in becoming an Enneagram coach, and that's fabulous. If you are one of those people, we highly recommend that you go to your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course, and there you get to listen to a small course where I'm going to take you through some really key things to help you to see if Enneagram coaching is right for you. But some of you are like, Beth, I'm not quite there, but I would love to get a coach. Where do I find one? Well, we've got you covered there at my Enneagram coach. com. Yep. My Enneagram coach. com. We have certified Enneagram coaches that have gone through our training. That would be a perfect fit for you. So go there, check out the directory and find someone that fits you best. Now, if you've enjoyed this podcast, We ask that you like subscribe and leave a review, letting others know that this is a great podcast to learn more about the Enneagram. Okay. So in today's episode, I get to invite a dear friend of mine, George Campbell. Now, George Campbell is a Ramsey personality and personal finance expert. I met George and his wife, Whitney, who is a type nine. Um, we met back in 2018, I believe, where Jeff and I were introduced to, actually, they reached out through Instagram and they wanted to get together because we're in the same city. And so we went to Sopa Pia's and had some fajitas together and just got to know each other. And it was so much fun. Well, after that, in the summer of 2019, we. He asked George to come along with us for a summer book tour for becoming us book on marriages. And we went to about like eight cities, had so much fun together. Well, let me tell you, George is a great. Uh, testimony and what happens when you follow Dave Ramsey's baby steps. So what he does is he followed the proven money plan and he went from a negative worth up to a million dollars in less than 10 years. So since 2013, he's been on the Ramsey team speaking across the country and frequently co hosting the Ramsey show. But he's also one of the top ranked podcast on smart money, happy hour. And I hope that you guys will dive in and to hear more on how to help you understand your money and not to get into the trap of debt. Well, he's done something really helpful for all of us and it's to write a book. Well, this book, he spent a whole year and he's going to talk about it here today, but he wrote, um, For a whole year on this book. And the book's name is breaking free from broke and I'm holding it up. So if you're on YouTube, you get to see it. It's a great cover, really excited for them, but he's also going to tell you how by buying it through Ramsey solutions. com, that you're going to get actually a hundred dollars worth of freebies. That's including the audio version, uh, three months of their, uh, Financial app that is super helpful and so much more. So he'll tell you about that, but just know pre ordering the book now for the release date of January 15th is going to be so beneficial for you. so without further ado, I want to bring George on and let's get talking with him right now. Hey, George.

George 4:54

Hey, how you doing, Beth? Long time no see.

Beth 4:56

I know, well, we were talking before we hopped on just how amazing our little time together was in 2019 that summer traveling to, I think we went to Chicago and Dallas and several other cities. It was so fun, um, to have you there and just to really see you and your element of being on stage and greeting people and the giveaways, like all that stuff was so much fun. And then I think my favorite part though, if I'm going to be honest, is afterwards when we would always have some fun and.

George 5:28

The post event hang.

Beth 5:30

Yeah. Yeah.

George 5:31

It was a great summer getting to know you guys. I've been a long time fan of what you guys do, so it was special to get to know you in that way and be a part of what you're doing. It was awesome. I miss

Beth 5:40

It was. I know. Well, maybe we'll have to do it another time. Then we'll, we'll switch it up. Cause we'll do maybe like, uh, Enneagram and money. Yeah.

George 5:49

now that we can get into today. There's some interesting things I want to ask you about that, so we'll get

Beth 5:53

Okay. Awesome. Um, okay. First and foremost, um, I know people would love to kind of just get to know you a little bit better. Um, so why don't you tell us first, let's talk about your Enneagram type and kind of how you discovered it and like what it's meant to you in getting into the Enneagram, how it's been beneficial to you. And then I want to get into this book that's coming out January 15th. So first, when did you discover the Enneagram? How did you find your type and what has it meant for you?

George 6:22

You know, I think it was around 2018 where I started diving into this and you guys were a huge component of Helping me understand all of this. Cause it was new to me and realizing I was an Enneagram two, which is the helper and what's really interesting is that I'm a two wing three. Which is technically called the host in a fun way. So it's a very, you know, helpful, hospitable role. And I think that stems from a lot of the environment I grew up in and how I'm wired with my parents being Middle Eastern and, you know, the Middle Eastern folks, Syrians, Egyptians, well known for their hospitality and warmth. And I think I've just. Early on, I found that's how I can connect with people. It's how I can make friends. If you are just a helpful, likable, warm person who's hospitable, your life's going to go better. And, uh, you know, later on in life that turned into people pleasing, which as you know, can turn into resentment and some of the negative things. But I'm a two wing three and, uh, I, you guys just nail it in the book talking about that personality type.

Beth 7:24

Yeah, which is such an amazing personality because you're, you're thinking about others. You're, uh, you can walk into a room and know who's feeling what or whose needs are, and you're willing to really roll up your sleeves and get in there to help people. And you. You don't mind doing it in front of a lot of people too. So where's the two stronger one wing personality probably wants to do it more behind the scenes, which I'm sure you don't mind doing that too, but not everybody likes to be in the front. Right. And, um, but the two wing three can definitely be like, Hey, no problem. You know, what are your needs? Who is it? Let's go, let's do this. Let's do that. Um, And that's really a fabulous quality to have. And that's really what we saw when we were on tour with you is, you know, you were just like, yeah, whatever you need, you know, just put me on stage, you know, I'll take care of this, that, and the other. And it was just super helpful. Um, and you also kind of brought this professionalism. To you as you were also very warm and friendly to the crowd, which is exactly what we needed you to be. So that was really helpful. Cut people to, um, kind of sit in their seats and kind of get ready and have some fun. So at least that's how I experienced you during that season. Is that kind of feel accurate and true.

George 8:43

Oh, yeah, I'm glad you perceive me that way because, you know, with the two and three, there's also that element of the performer where you want to be perceived as the helpful, likable, gregarious guy. And so that's a, that's a whole, it's an interesting part of it because, you know, you want to be helpful without any. You know, unintended motives or, uh, anything else going on there, vested interest. But there's always a piece of the two winged three that, you know, they want to look good while they help. And it's just an, it's such an interesting combination of things. And I think that on the healthy side, if, if you can work on those things, you get to the point where you truly, I get to do what I do now. And I just want to help people with money. And I care less and less about. Others opinions of me and getting something in return. It just feels so good to help someone else take that next step, especially now with their finances and the role I'm in.

Beth 9:32

Yeah, that is so good. Okay. So that's a great segue into why I chose you to be here today and why we're releasing this today. And it's right here in my hands. If you're not on YouTube, you should be because you should be watching this because I have this beautiful book with George on the cover. And this is George's book. First book breaking free from broke. So, and really, let me tell you the tagline, the ultimate guide to more money and less stress. And so George, this is coming out January 15th, which is just around the corner. Tell us more about the book.

George 10:05

Absolutely. This is my, it's a little bit of my story of how I went from broke to now millionaire and a decade after graduating with 40, 000 in debt between my student loans and my credit cards growing up kind of, I call it the average George, the average millennial with Middle Eastern immigrant parents who. You know, learned all the American ways of handling money, which looks a lot like debt and payments and keeping up with credit scores and credit card balances and transfers and just kind of a life of chaotic stress when it came to money. And the book is how I broke free from this toxic money system. And I unpack in the first two thirds, exactly how the system is designed to keep you broke from credit scores to credit cards, to auto loans, to student loans, to mortgages, investing traps, all of that marketing and consumerism. And then I show you a path to break free from that. That's proven. Ten million people have done it. I've done it. And I just want to give people hope in a world where there doesn't seem to be much of it. Where everything feels chaotic. Everything feels like it's never gonna get better. The housing market's out of control. Inflation's the worst. The president, that guy needs to get his act together. And at the end of the day, I just want to hold up a mirror. And block all of those excuses and justifications and go, Okay, what can you do about it? Because it's not all your fault, but it's your responsibility to take the next step. And I believe anyone, if they're willing to, can rise above this broken system and live the best life. Financially, uh, relationally, emotionally, all of it. If they're just willing to take the right steps. Mmm.

Beth 11:34

that because two things, one, you're affirming where we're at as a country and where we are as a people, right? The sad thing, and I'm sure you address this, is that here we go through all this schooling and they tell us, you know. You know, all of our ABCs and, you know, science stuff and all, and that's good stuff, but they don't tell us how to live in the real world on a day to day basis. And what is going to basically eat you alive, which is debt and how you can become a slave to it. So I love this title, breaking free from broke and. That, like you said, yeah, we're in the system, but it doesn't mean we have to be a slave to the system, that there are ways that we can learn how the system is working, but not follow it, but actually go counter to it in ways that are more beneficial for us. But it's our responsibility. And I think that's the big thing, especially when we use the Enneagram, that's really what we're doing, right? Like, yeah, you're a type when you're unhealthy. Yeah. There's going to be some very specific things that happen, but you can have. The responsibility within yourself to know those things and move in a healthier direction. And so that's where self discovery and self growth comes from, whether it's in your personality, um, or like, like this with money. So you took all of these principles and what you learned with from Dave Ramsey, and now you're passing that on. So what's that been like for you to, well, one, go through the process. Cause as we all know, doing this is super hard, right? Like it's not like, Oh yeah, you just. Plug and play and no problem. Like it is a hard process to figure this out and then to actually do it. So what was that like? And then was, but what has it been like to then be able to pass this on to the next person?

George 13:18

Yeah, well I remember that feeling. It wasn't long ago. This was 2013 and I was 40, 000 in debt and I was Anxious, stressed, frustrated, cynical toward adulthood, mad at everyone around me, and, uh, I was pointing all the fingers, and until it came back around to me, my life didn't change. Because it's easy, and it's almost fun and cathartic to just, you know, complain on Twitter Instagram and to your friends about how tough life is, and how it's everyone else's fault, and the day I realized, I'm, I'm in control of my life. And I'm the one who gets a vote and how this is going to go. And I think the Enneagram is the same way where you have to kind of hold up the mirror. And go, yeah, that's me. Maybe I do have those tendencies. What can I do to get better? And so this book, I hope just gives people hope that where they are today, where they've been, the mistakes they've made, whatever family background they came from, socioeconomic status, it doesn't have to stay that way. That you can get better with money and you can leave the legacy that you've always dreamed of leaving. That you can live a life you're not exhausted by. And that, that kind of transformation is possible. And you guys do that for people with their, with their personal growth journey. And that we're doing it with their personal finances. And I think that's a beautiful connection point there. But on the other side of this, you know, there was, there's a lot of sacrifices that had to be made. I was driving a beater car up until a few years ago, uh, to go like, no, we want to pay off our house and I like to dangle the carrot. I'm a person driven by that carrot a little bit. And I think what's happened in today's culture is, well, you don't need to have the money to get it. You can just take out the loan and you can buy now pay later. And there'll be, the bank is always happy to give you more money. And so what's happened is we don't need to wait. We don't need to have delayed gratification when you can have instant gratification. And we live in a culture where people, number one, don't think it's possible that they can save up and pay for that thing or pay that thing off. And they just want it now. I think we just have to own that. That is the culture that we live in today. It's chaotic. It's fast paced. And we're used to having everything now instantly palm of our hand 24, seven, all of the time. And we can't even fathom. Waiting a year to save up for that car or three years or saving up for that town down payment. And so all of that has led us to this place of stress and anxiety and payments all around us wondering Is this the american dream because this? This feels more like a nightmare And so that's really the heart of the book and now getting to help people and help that next person Sometimes avoid the mistakes that i've made and that many others have made but sometimes helping them get out of a pickle that they found themselves in and get out of that debt and just give them hope that You know, 18 months from now, your life could look completely different. What if you could be debt free with an emergency fund, investing for the future, confident about the next 20 years of your life, able to help your child go to school completely debt free, uh, and not be a burden to your family financially later in life? I mean, is that not, that should be the goal for everyone regardless of where you came from. And I think it can be a reality for those who, who choose to believe it's possible for them. Regardless of where they came from, everyone thinks they're special and unique. And George, you don't understand my situation. The day you realize you're not that special and that this plan works for everyone who works, it is a great day.

Beth 16:35

Yeah, I totally agree 100 percent like Jeff and I, um, our first, gosh, I don't know, 15 years of marriage, maybe even 20 cause we've been married 28. He was either a ministry or a pastor. And so we did not have much, and I remember learning about all of these, um, really great tools early on and putting them, uh, to work because, you know, I didn't want to live in that chaos and that stress, but it was really hard. And I think that's something that our society can struggle with is, but I want what's easy. Well, it may feel easy in the moment to go, you know, get that loan or go get that car, or get that fun thing. But then you get trapped in paying the bills. And then like today, I mean, you go to, I picked up, um, just one meal for one of my kids from a nice. Fast food place. I'm not going to say the name because I don't want to harm them because they're really great, but it was 16. I was like, are you kidding me? Like that is just outrageous. And so, you know, it made me realize like I have to be aware of what is going on in our world right now that it is a real thing. Like this is hard stuff, you know, that, that inflation has gone up, cost of living has gone up. It is hard for people to get either into apartments or houses. But if we are aware of the reality and aware of our finances, and we, we set the precedent of where we're going to go, there's so much more freedom that we're going to have in life. When we set the tone for life, even if it's not exactly what we were hoping for wanting, but we're not as enslaved to the debt, then you have so much more freedom to enjoy life. Even though of course, let's say you have to do your date night in the park versus going to the restaurant you used to always go to. But you still get to choose the date night. It just may not look the way it used to look. Um, and so within the book, what I kind of noticed, and I love the, the, the chapters, um, how you've named them, what I felt like, and tell me if this is wrong, George, but it felt like this is such a great book that spans generations, like it's not just for just the young people it's for anyone who really wants to break free from this. Cycle of being broke or in debt or feeling overwhelmed. Is that true? Mhm.

George 19:01

Oh yes. And that my worry was that while I think this is the perfect book to give to that high school or college person, you know, college graduate. I wanted this book to be something where even if you're 55 and you're like, I never learned about money, I'd need a book that I can understand. I wanted to write this book on, in such a way, on a fifth grade level, with tons of humor, with just the right amount of research to convince anyone, whether they're 25 or 55, that hope is possible for them, that their financial future can still be affected if they're willing to make the right choices. And I, I do believe, like, I thought the Target demo, you know, for, like, my YouTube channel, for example, I was like, well, this is for people my age, so we're talking 20s and 30s. What I didn't realize was that people are going, hey, my 10 year old loves to watch this with me. Hey, my mom sent me this because she's been really enjoying it. And so it's really cool to see. That when you deliver a message in a really fun, creative way that's easy for people to understand, they're going to connect to it regardless of their age. And so it's, that was my hope was that this book can affect a whole lot more people. We don't write books just for a certain type of person. We want to write books for anyone who's wanting a change in their finances. And so I, I did want a fun, young, energetic, bright, aggressive cover. So we at least managed that. I did not want a book that looked like, you know, your grandma's financial book. It had to have some flavor and fun to it.

Beth 20:28

But I'll show it again. Those are that are on YouTube. I love it. It's so you. I just love it. It's so great. Um, yeah. Well, I really appreciate, you know, just what you've done with this. Um, and I really commend people to again, buy it for those young people that really have no clue of what's about to hit them. So they don't get caught up in these traps, but also for all of us. And. Um, no matter what age, cause we've been indoctrinated in our culture to live a certain way and to buy certain things and just live, you know, as you want versus as you should in a way that will produce the freedom and the joy that you actually are looking for. So everyone go ahead and, um, get Georgia's book breaking free from broke and George, you guys are doing something kind of special before the launch, right? Like, so if someone buys it, pre orders it. Which the release date is January 15th, but someone pre orders it. What, what can I get Yeah.

George 21:41

stream happening in January. It's a Q& A with me, as well as some content. Uh, and anyone that buys the book, whether it's before or after, That launch date is going to get three months of our premium every dollar budgeting tool to help them live out this plan. And we found that it takes people 90 days to get, get a hold of that budget, get it dialed in, get good at it. And so that was my gift to the readers to go, Hey, we're not only going to give you the information, we're going to help you apply it and live this stuff out. And so you can get it at ramseysolutions. com slash store. And I, I truly hope, you know, the parents and the kids read it, read it together. I think it's going to be a great challenge for both of you. Because parents out there, it's not like they're financial prodigies. So they don't really know how to teach their kids and they've made their own money mistakes and there's shame and guilt and baggage on their end. So this is a great book for all of you to read to get on the same page and create your own goals. Maybe for the parents that's retirement and for the kids that's, I want to save up and pay for that car in cash. How cool would that be? And parents are like, yes, George, tell me more. You know, how I don't have to foot the bill for my kid the rest of their life. And that's, I don't want anyone's stunted growth to hold them back financially, which is unfortunately what we're seeing is people in their 20s and 30s, they're not able to buy the house and start a family and move to that place and have that dream job because of money. It's an obstacle for them instead of a tool to live their best life. And so that's the prayer of this book is that I want to move money from being an obstacle to being a tool. And that you can give generously, spend the way you want to spend, save diligently for the future. And, uh, not be held back with debt payments.

Beth 23:15

That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, George, uh, you know, for just taking the time to make it accessible for everyone. Um, so with that, I'd love to, like, just kind of poke and prod about being a two with the three wing and creating this because it's got to be, um, a joy. To have created something that is going to truly bless people. And it already is. I mean, cause you're doing it on a daily basis with the podcast and co hosting the Dave Ramsey show. But what was, what's that been like for you as a two to create and develop something that's going to be so meaningful for others?

George 23:50

Well, the hard part of it, I'll say first, which is as a two, you want everyone to like you. That's always been the goal is I want everyone to like me. And not all of a sudden you realize, oh, there's a comment section. What are they saying in the comment section? Oh, they have they can leave reviews for the podcast. Oh, my gosh. What do they say about me? And so a lot of this two and three, you want to have everyone like you want. You want to control the narrative. You want us to go, Hey, haters, no, you don't understand. I'm a nice guy. If you just got to know me, we could get along. And so that's been the hard part of being out front is you get to deal with all the critics. You know, you get the praise and you get the spotlight, but man, people on the internet are brutal. Sometimes people in person are brutal and you have to learn how to handle that criticism. With a level of maturity and grace and not let it crush you either. And so that's the, that's a difficult thing for anyone in the spotlight, but especially at Ramsey, we get a lot of haters because you start poking at money and it triggers something emotional inside of people because of where they came from and what they believe to be true. And so that's been the hard part as an Enneagram to, you know, wing three, to step into this role and to write this book, and it's something that I worked so hard on. You know, you work on this book for a year straight. Toiling nights and weekends, getting the words just right. And then someone's like, this book stinks one star on Amazon. And you're like, oh my gosh, how, you know? And so I, I feel that for authors out there, anyone who's creating content out there, you, you guys, uh, you have to learn to ignore the haters and believe in what you're doing at such a level that nothing's going to stop you. Because I know there's a single mom trying to call into the Ramsey show right now who needs our help. Who's scared for her life, trying to take care of her kids, pay the bills. And I go, Oh, they, the haters don't matter when I know that that person needs help and I can just help them take the right next step. So that's the beautiful part of what we get to do is we get to see life change instantly. We get to see the light bulb come on. We get to give people resources. That can literally change the trajectory of their life. And that's the beautiful part of getting to be in this role and getting to speak and write books and be on podcasts. Uh, so I don't want to minimize that because that's what makes me get up every day in spite of the comment section and the haters and people want to argue and get nerdy about the numbers. And I'm going, there's people that need hope and they need help and I'm not letting you get in the way of that. So that's been a beautiful challenge that I'm still learning every day to overcome, to stay out of the comment section and just keep helping people.

Beth 26:20

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm so glad to hear that because it is true. I don't think people until they're in the arena, they don't really understand what happens in the arena. Um, and I, I am very thankful. And proud because you're, as a friend of mine, I'm very proud of what you are overcoming because like you said, I mean, all nine types are going to have their own challenges in writing books and presenting, you know, so any type could be sitting here, but like you said, particularly for the two and wanting to make sure everyone's happy and served and, um, you know, that, that it's worthwhile. For people to say the opposite has got to be crushing. But I also love the fact that you are, you are helping to reorient your own heart and your mind and your whole being to the biggest thing actually for the two is that they're looking for unconditional love. The problem is that you can't. Apart from God, get it from anywhere else, except for yourself. And it's when you start caring truly for yourself and giving yourself the unconditional love that all that other noise goes away. And all you're really caring about is that you, the, the good stuff rises to the surface and you can actually embrace that and feel it. But it's when we're trying to. Run after the Atta boys and you're amazing. And I appreciate you and the twos, that's a natural bent, but when they give it to themselves first, which is what I'm hearing from you, when we give it to our ourselves first, then we can say, you know what? I don't need to listen to the naysayers. I don't need to listen to the critics. I can focus on what God has given me and move in that direction, care for myself, which then allows me to really, and truly hear the blessings that others. are looking and how I've helped them. Um, but again, it's not, you're not hearing it. That fuels you because you with God's help, you're getting that fuel by yourself. And is that, am I saying that right? And how you've had

George 28:21

so much more eloquent and poetic than I could have ever said it. Beth. So absolutely. You're right. That's easy. And, you know, we want to chase the applause as as the twos and threes. It feels so good. And you're right. There's a piece of that healthy self love and confidence in what you're doing and what you're called to. It's exciting because you become unstoppable when you can stop caring what other people think, because you're like, this is what God's called me to. I'm proud of this. I know I put everything I've got into this book and therefore no one star Amazon review can take me down. Uh, and so that is a very powerful feeling. And I feel that with this book, I'm so proud of this. It's the hardest I've ever worked on anything in my life. And every word was intentional and crafted and I, I, I couldn't have done it without, of course, the help of my family and support and the team here at Ramsey, but, you know, I truly feel like this was a, a very God thing to where I don't know how to write a book, Beth. I mean, and it's not like they put you through author training. They just go. Oh, shoo, write words on a Microsoft Word doc and you go, Oh my gosh, this is intimidating. And so there was a lot of prayers. There was a lot of conversations with God going. I don't have the words today, God. I don't know what I'm doing. Please give me the words that will connect with those that need the help. And so you do that enough times and, you know, you turn enough stones over and day by day, it's just a death march to get the whole thing written. And, uh, I'm, I'm real, real proud of it. And no reviews are gonna stop me now.

Beth 29:52

And the thing that people don't realize with writing books is it's not the writing is hard, but it's also the editorial process. That's really challenging because, Hey, maybe your book is different than my books, but I got a lot of red marks in mind, a lot of editorial responses that I have to weed through and consider and like rework and all that stuff. And, and that can be challenging, especially, you know, You know, me being the personality, it's like, I just want to be heard and I don't really want to deal with conflict and issues and I don't want to be overlooked. And so then if I get, you know, editorial reviews from the editors, it's like, Oh, did I totally mess up? Do I even know what I'm talking about? You know, it's like, no, that's actually, that's not. And so you have to overcome more hurdles than just the actual writing and, um, the critics that might be on the other end, there's that middle process of the editing that goes on and that plays with your mind as well. Did that happen for you? Yes.

George 30:46

Oh yeah, I, I'm not a huge fan of conflict, and an editorial is all conflict. It's, hey, this doesn't make sense, you gotta take this out, you have this crutch that you always say, and grammatically it's incorrect, and so all of a sudden it's, it's just a magnifying glass into everything that's wrong with you, and that can be a very tough process. Luckily we had an amazing editor that I worked with who was just so kind and so graceful. And very believed in, in the product and was encouraging and all of the changes were not a personal attack. And once you realize that, you realize, Oh, they're just trying to help me connect with the reader better and they have a lot more experience than I do with this. So there's a, there's a level of letting go that's, that was beautiful. And it's something as the two that I'm still learning. Because in my mind, I know how to do it better than anyone, and I can, if I just have the control, it's gonna go well, and I can control all of this. But there's a level of letting go, and let me tell you, becoming a dad is the best lesson in just having to let go of control that there is, and so that's

Beth 31:52

And me is 3 and a half months, right?

George 31:54

Yes, I got a three and a half month old who reminds me every day that I am not in control. And so, whether it's the book or the baby, it's been a real beautiful challenge and daily reminder. Uh, as an Enneagram two who wants, if I feel, I feel like if I can just control it, if I can just work hard enough at it, then it will go well. But releasing that to, to God and the editors and to all of the people, it's been very freeing as well because I, as a two, you have, feel like you have to carry the burden and to just release that and go, it's not all on me. I can ask for help. That is such a beautiful, a beautiful thing. And I feel like I have become a healthier version of myself and just being willing to let go and ask for that help.

Beth 32:38

Yeah. And let me, let me just go there for a second. Um, because I know there's going to be a lot of twos listening and sometimes they're like, well, yeah, I mean, asking for help is good, but I don't, I don't even think I need help. Like what, where do I need help? And that is a key indicator because twos don't look. At what they need enough to the, and even ask for help. Um, did you find that, I mean, obviously when you're a new dad and you're writing a book, it's in your face what you need help with, right? I mean, it's just like pretty obvious, but on a day to day basis, would you say that it, it was hard for you to see where you would need help and how you were taking control until these more obvious moments?

George 33:19

And my wife, Whitney would be the first to tell you that I'm not great at stating my needs and what happens is, and I've, this is my experience. You can tell me that this is wrong, but I found that that's when resentment builds up is when I take, I take on the burden, I take the brunt on and I just go off, I'll do, I'll fold the laundry myself because no one's going to fold. Like, I don't want to wait for her to be in the mood to fold the laundry. So I'm just going to do it now and then I'm going to. Be able to make a passive aggressive statement about it later. That's when I'm in my unhealthy mode, when I'm tired, stressed, burnt out. Um, that's my tendency is to do it myself, but then instantly be resentful at everyone around me. Uh, but it's, it's really hard to ask for help because I feel like I'm going to burden someone else by sending the text to the, to a friend being like, Hey, do you mind coming over? I need help moving this thing. I just feel like there's the possibility of rejection, which is one of my greatest fears. And so them saying, Nope, I'm too busy. Well, while it's all good and well, it's still rejection. It's them saying no. You, you finally got the bravery to ask for what you need and it was shot down. And so then in your mind, you go, see, this is why we don't ask for help. It was a waste of time. They said, no. Now they, they just think I'm a needy person with that's going to be a burden. And all of that are, so there's so many lies and myths that we've just told ourselves in our head. And I found most of the time I finally do ask, I am overwhelmed by how. Much people want to be and how they're not, they're, they don't see you as a burden and how it's one of their gifts that they can do is to step in on that moment. And I'll tell you, we had a really tough time with Whitney's pregnancy and the birth of Mia and issues. And it was seeing everyone just come over just to hold the baby and strangers showing up and spouses of friends. We've never even met being like, Hey, I'm coming over to hold the baby. You guys do whatever you need to do. It was just emotionally overwhelming to see the level of support and love from co workers and friends and family flying across the country. Um, and so that was a great reminder as a two that it's okay to say what you need and people will show up and the ones that show up. You know, those are your people and you know who they're, they're really, they're really there for you, not what they can get from you or out of you. And that's what I'm realizing as I, in my old age of 34 and maturing, realizing these are the people I really want in my life. These are the ride or die folks that I can actually go to when I need something.

Beth 35:43

yeah. And you mentioned resentment, um, and let's unpack that a little bit because, you know, I think some people that are twos, they may not. naturally think of themselves as resentful. Um, because really the structure of the two is to constantly think of themselves as being that helpful, kind, um, nurturing figure of some form or fashion. It could be just giving advice or actually doing something helpful. And so resentment, um. Wouldn't be usually the first thing that comes to mind. How did you, uh, notice that, because obviously you've done a lot of self work and understanding yourself, how did you notice that? And then what has it been like to kind of unpack that in a way that helps you to move in a way that's not passive aggressive, but does actually humble yourself enough to say, no, actually, I, I do need help, but I'm going to say this, but where, where did you recognize the resentment? Silence.

George 37:01

got a more, more responsibility at work. And all of a sudden your body's feeling the pressure of all of this. And that's when you start to become, you're tired, you're stressed, you become irritable, and usually it takes someone else calling it out, so it's not me going like, wow, I'm sensing a, some resentment, it's my wife saying, hey, what just happened there, you just like snapped, and I don't even know where that came from, we were just folding laundry, and all of a sudden you made this comment, and that's when you go, I don't really know, and then you go, that's what it is, here's what I've truly been feeling, and so when you just lay it all out of, here's what's been going on, here's why, it's just me. Here's the things I've been doing. Here's what this has caused. It's easier to then point back in hindsight and go, That was a little bit of resentment that I've been building up. And that was a little bit of passive aggressiveness. Because I feel like I do all of these things and it's never reciprocated. And when I need something, no one shows up. But as soon as they need something, I'm the first one to text back and show up. All of that naturally is going to lead to resentment. I don't, there's probably, there may be a more scientific word for it. But I've just noticed. You know, when you start to get irritable, irritable, that usually leads to resentment soon after if you're an Enneagram 2.

Beth 38:11

Yeah, oh, that's so good. And you're absolutely right. I think it's for all of us to like, I won't even realize that I'm disconnecting and people pleasing. Until it's gotten usually too far. And this is where at your Enneagram coach, I often talk about the Enneagram being like a rumble strip on the highway. You know, you're driving down the highway and if you aren't paying attention or you're falling asleep and you start to veer off course, hopefully the rumble strip is there. And hopefully you're paying attention enough that you're going to hear it and course correct. But within our own life, when people are not self aware or even discovering much about their inner world, it is as if they've fallen asleep, the wheel. And our natural inclination is to veer off course, because we think, like you said, I just have to help people. I have to have control. Well, for me as a nine, I have to people, please, I have to make sure everyone's okay. I don't want to rock the boat. That is the way we grew up. Those were the strategies that we use to quote unquote survive. Um, and they kind of worked for us back then, but they definitely don't work for us now. Um, But we don't realize that because we're asleep to these patterns until we start to wake up. And part of that wake up process is to hear and notice those rumble strips. So like for you, you were saying, um, and this truly, I really want to give you a major compliment because. In fact, a lot of twos have a very hard time hearing anything negative about themselves from anyone else, especially maybe a spouse or a loved one, because the core weakness of the two is pride and the pride is. It's not so much the pride, like we think maybe what people come to their mind right away. It's, Oh, I don't want to think about myself and negatively think about myself. I have to think well about myself because if there's anything negative in me, you're going to reject me. And rejection is my greatest fear. So I have to put on a persona of being loving, helpful, kind. And if you're pointing out my faults, Then that means you must not love me and you're going to reject me and I'm worthless and I'm dispensable. And so they have to constantly keep up this image of helpfulness, kindness, love, nurture. Um, and so I just really want to say for you and all the other twos out there that take the time to listen to what people are saying. Especially in pretty much only those that love you. Cause obviously like we were just talking about the naysayers out there, like, you know, unless you know, they're in your contacts and your phone or someone like that, a mentor probably shouldn't be listening to what they have to say, but if it's someone close and dear, that really loves you to listen and to take that in and to grow is truly remarkable. So one, I just want to say that like, Hey, kudos that you listened and you took it to heart. That was your rumble strip. You kind of woke up to it. And then. You started to navigate your inner world into a healthier path, which is continuing to listen, continuing to grow and asking for help. And you can only ask for help when you actually notice that you need help. And that, of course, having a kid is definitely going to, you know, accelerate. It's like putting a kerosene on a fire. But the fact that you continue to do it is great. Um, and it will always be hard. So it's not like it gets. Like easy, but it will continue to really get better. So with the resentment, as you've noticed yourself, um, accepting some of the weaknesses or the frailties and the resentment popping up here and there, and you're accepting it, you're owning it and you're moving in a different direction. What have you seen as the outcome? In moving in like course correcting from the rumble strip back on to a healthier trajectory. What has that process been like for you? And let's just say even like with Whitney in your marriage.

George 42:02

Well, so my wife Whitney is an Enneagram 9, and so she's the peacemaker, and so conflict in our household is something we both sort of don't want to talk about. There's a little bit of that shut down, uh, vibe that happens. And so when it comes to the other side, the outcome of me stating my needs. More clearly at home is we actually set better expectations, which makes me less resentful because now she knows we both agreed in communicating openly. Hey, when are we doing laundry? Okay. We're going to do laundry at Thursday at six o'clock. Great. Now I don't have to do it Tuesday night behind her back and be like, I did the live. This always happens. She's, and so now I know, hey, we said we're doing laundry Thursday at six. Great. We set the expectations. We're aligned in what's going to happen with the schedule and that has just freed us so much. Uh, because it's kind of asking for help, but with parameters and I like that kind of structure and there's a set date and deadline and time. And so nothing's real squishy and in the air. And so this, the calendar has been a really helpful tool for us to, it sounds kind of unsexy and a little bit boring, but putting everything on the calendar, Hey, what's going on? Oh yeah, you have that thing. So I've got a, I'm going to watch the baby while you go out with your friends. And then remember I have that thing Sunday night. All of that has led to a better marriage. And especially when it comes to money, which is what we do around here, you know, communicating and expectations is the name of the game. That's how you avoid a lot of money fights and money problems. Um, and so all of that has helped me. And then professionally, uh, delegation was really hard for me to just ask for help and go, Hey. Can you do this for me? Number one, I don't want to be a burden to them. Number two, I can do it. Yes, it's going to be more stressful because the day's already crazy. But, um, working, we have, we have some amazing assistants here at Ramsey that have just changed my life. Because I said, hey, my life's out of control. Can you help? Can you help me with this thing and navigate this calendar issue for me? And they're always happy to do it. And yes, it's, it's their job, quote unquote. But there's also a piece of letting go. That was hard for me to do because I like it color coded this way and they don't do it this way. And so there's all of that very persnickety, you know, specificity that I, you kind of have to let go of too sometimes. Or, you have to be willing to go, hey, can I show you the way I prefer it? And I go, oh, sure. And you go, oh, wow, that was a lot easier than I thought. I don't have to be resentful and passive aggressive about the way they do it differently. And it's the same with marriage. You can't be mad at how someone loads the dishwasher if you haven't told them. Here's how I prefer it. If you don't mind doing it this way, here's the reasoning behind it. It would mean the world to me. This is something that matters to me. That's all it takes. And then they can decide to let you down later and you can have the argument, but there's a lot of just things that are in our heads that we don't say out loud because we don't want to be the burden or because no one can just, they won't understand. So I'll just handle it. But man, letting go and just saying it out loud has been so freeing, both professionally and personally, especially when you're in a busy season.

Beth 45:06

Yeah. Yeah. Just like you are. Um, okay. So I would love for you just to tell us a little bit more, um, about where people can find your book. Um, cause I know that there's probably a thousand places they can find you, which I hope they do. Um, but tell us a little bit more about where they can find the book, uh, breaking free from broke and guys, seriously, you've got to get this book. It's a one. I do really love the cover. I got to say, it's pretty awesome. Um, But where can they find it? And, um, a little bit more about the, um, bonuses that come with pre ordering. Um, and also guys, seriously, the, the app getting three months free and knowing how to spend your money. The app is truly that alone. I'm like, I'm seriously

George 45:48

That's worth it right there.

Beth 45:49

you, you gave me this book and I'm like, okay, I might just have to go get my own book so I can have that.

George 45:54

I'll hook you up, Beth. Well, offline, I'll make sure you're taken care of as a, as a personal friend. Not everyone gets that kind of treatment.

Beth 46:01

Thank you. Um, okay. So where can people find you and how can they get all these goodies?

George 46:06

Absolutely. So the best place to go is ramesysolutions. com slash store. Of course, it's going to be available everywhere, wherever you shop, you'll see it, Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all that. But at ramesysolutions. com, we're doing something really cool where if you pre order the book for 20 bucks, you're going to get a hundred dollars in bonus items for free, including the ebook. The audio book that's enhanced with some really cool production elements. Uh, talk that I did at the smart conference event. You'll get the video of that. You get three months of every dollar, whether you buy it before or after all the premium features like bank connectivity and financial roadmap and paycheck planning, some really cool stuff there. And I'm doing a live stream in January. If you catch that when you're, depending on when you're listening to this, we've got a Q and a live stream with some awesome content we're doing to celebrate the launch of the book, exclusive to those who pre ordered. So. All of that is yours free, uh, you can go to ramsaysolutions. com slash store and get your copy. And it's a, it's quite the read Beth. I don't know if you open, it's a thick book. It's almost 300 pages. And so I think it's going to be a reference guide that people look back to as they have different phases of life, whether they're looking to do investing right, the right way, buy a house the right way, spend the right way with marketing and consumerism, maybe avoid some of the traps or go, Hey, my buddy's asking about this insurance thing. And I, George talked about this in his book. I got to tell him because I'm. I don't know how to say it. And so I've tried to make it all to where you can go tell your friends and family and kind of have that language you can use to explain why you're going to live the way you're living, why this is a trap and here's the right way to do things.

Beth 47:36

Well, and I will say, even though, like you said, you know, it's almost 300 pages, you know, for some people like me who are slow readers, that can, can sound like a lot and other people, it's like, like the type fives out there that are like, great, awesome. More the merrier. Um, but what I want to say is as soon as you open up the book, you can tell it's. An easy read. And what I mean by that is you've got great bullet points. You've got great graphics, like it's easy on the eyes to go to find what you need right away. So I just want people to recognize that you really did put a lot of work in to making this accessible for anyone. Like you said, it could be the high schoolers all the way to your grandmother. Um, so I really encourage people. I know for me learning this stuff, um, early on. Uh, really saved Jeff and I, um, many, many years of heartache, um, where we were able to stay debt free. So I really hope people, uh, pick this up and jump right in. Like you said, do it with the family. It's really going to be remarkable.

George 48:35

That means the world. Well, half the words are jokes. So just know that going into it, that's why it became so long. I was like, we have to add some humor in here. It'll make it easier to read and more fun and keep you going. And so it's a very fun conversational read. The audio book's going to be, I like to do the thing where I read the book while listening to the audio book. So this is a great way to do that. Cause you don't need to go buy all those things. We're giving it to you all for free. So that's, that's a fun way to keep my brain as a squirrel brain on track when I'm looking at the words and it's being fed into my ears as well.

Beth 49:03

That's like almost the only way I do it these days, and there's actually a term for it, and I can't

George 49:07

Oh, are we, are we prodigies or something? Is that what it is?

Beth 49:10

I mean, but, well, I grew up with a reading disability, so I'm really slow at reading, and so that's how I actually get through a lot of book,

George 49:17

Wow. Looking while doing audio, like you're physically reading while, okay, that, and that maybe that's me too, because I'm a very slow reader and my brain gets off track every three seconds. So, hence all the jokes. That's my rabbit

Beth 49:31

ADHD or sometimes, you know, if you have dyslexia, like, so those that are out there, like that is really the way to go. And then having the physical book, you know, again, there's something to it where, you know, you can underline, you can star, you can come back to, um, but, but then it's also fun hearing you, you know, read the book. So anyway, so that's definitely way to do it, guys. Uh, go to, uh, Ramsey solutions.

George 49:53

RamseySolutions. com slash store is the easiest way to get there. And you'll see that bright orange book. And I'm happy to connect with all of your listeners on Instagram at George Camel. That's K A M E L. I'd love to hear if you're, if you're a, your Enneagram coach fan, then I'm already a fan of you. And so I'd love to hear from you guys. If you have financial questions or just to let me know you enjoyed the episode, that would mean the world.

Beth 50:16

That's awesome. Well, George, it's so good to catch up with you again. We had so much fun in 2019. You're not that far from us, so we're just going to have to go to

George 50:24

need to hang. I think it's time for more fajitas.

Beth 50:26

More fajitas. We'll definitely do it. All right. Well, tell Whitney I said hi, and then hopefully someday I get to meet sweet Mia as

George 50:33

baby Mia. I appreciate that. Tell Jeff I said hello as well. You guys are doing amazing work as usual. Keep it up.

Beth 50:39

Okay. Thanks. Bye George. Well, I had so much fun hearing from George and all the ways that God is working in him and through him at Ramsey solutions and this new book. I hope it's been a privilege for you as well. Well, for those that are listening, if you've experienced the impact that George has experienced with the Enneagram really helping him to grow and to kind of jump through some hurdles in life, some challenges by becoming a healthy version of yourself. And you want to pass that on to the next person by being an Enneagram coach, then we recommend that you get our free mini course at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course. We are here to train. Excellent Enneagram coaches. But if you're like, you know what, I just really want to meet with an Enneagram coach and to help me to understand myself, why I get caught up in the way I do, just like you and George were talking about. I need to find those rumble strips. I need to figure out why I do what I do so I can stay on the healthier path for my life. And if that's you go to my Enneagram coach. com. That is my Enneagram coach. com. And that is where our certified coaches are there. You can find one that fits you perfectly and you will see accelerated growth when using an Enneagram coach. Well, I hope today's dialogue with George has. Been so helpful and enlightening to you. Come back next week. We're going to do it again with another special guests and always remember that the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder because it is the gospel that transforms us. Thanks for joining us today. We'll see you next time.