Episode 208: How ADHD Effects Your Enneagram Type w/ADHD Coaches

Beth 1:12

Hey everyone. Welcome to your Enneagram Coach, the podcast. This is Beth McCord, your Enneagram Coach. And today we're diving into a unique and empowering topic on ADHD and the Enneagram. Now ADHD can be a very complex journey, impacting many individuals differently based on their Enneagram type and lots of other things about them. Well, today we're going to explore not just the negative influences, but also the positive I'm aspects that ADHD can have on each person in each Enneagram type, and we're going to talk through how to use ADHD to not be a challenge, but actually to be a blessing. And joining me today are two amazing people who have exceptional gifts, both as certified ADHD coaches. And as well certified Enneagram coaches. Now they're going to bring a wealth of information and expertise on their own unique coaching approaches and their own wisdom and knowledge about how ADHD coaching can be used with Enneagram wisdom for them. They just tailor their coaching sessions to really meet the needs of. Each client they work with. So whether you personally are navigating ADHD yourself, you're supporting a loved one who has ADHD, or you're just curious about the intersection of the Enneagram and ADHD. Well, this episode is definitely for you. We're here to bring to light this new approach of understanding how ADHD is impacted by each Enneagram type. But not only that, but how each person can grow in more understanding about themselves so they can grow. So our two guests today is first and foremost, my son, Nate McCord, a type six. And Nate's journey is a unique one. In that he grew up in the household of your Enneagram coach. Yes. So he's been around the Enneagram for a very long time, but not only that, his journey also is that he had ADHD for quite some time without any of us knowing it. And we'll get into that later in this episode, but he has really grown since being diagnosed with ADHD. And it has helped him to not just understand the struggles that he faced in school, but mainly the positive aspects that he brings to others because of this unique makeup of his mind. But also, we're going to talk to his ADHD coach, which is Leslie Robbins. Now, Leslie Robbins is an amazing ADHD coach who also loves to dive into all the nuances and helping her clients navigate the complexities of having ADHD. Now she started this because guess what? Her sons also had ADHD and as she was going through learning about it, she realized, I think there's something about this. That actually is me. So she not only learned to help others, especially her kids, but also how to help herself. So she started her own coaching in 2018. Now, both of them have been certified through ADD. Coaching Academy, which is called ACA, and they have learned so many beneficial techniques and skills and insights and wisdom and how to help anyone with ADHD. So I can't wait for you guys to hear more of them. But the biggest thing I want you guys to understand about this approach, it is not that we're looking at ADHD as a problem. It's looking at ADHD for some of the negatives that it has and to grow through them. But also the positives, the superpowers that they give each of us when we recognize what those are. And I love their approach and their support to each person they encounter. Okay. So with all of that, let me welcome Nate and Leslie to the podcast. Hey guys. Hey,

Nate 5:11

hey. How's it going?

Beth 5:13

Good to see you guys. Well, this is going to be very helpful for so many people out there because And I'm actually one of those people who are in the process because Nate, you got it. And you've said, you know, usually your parent, one of your parents has it. And we all know that I'm probably one that has it. So I'm actually in the process as a 49 year old, maybe discovering that this is something I've been wrestling with, but also a superpower of mine all these years.\ So, What I love for you guys to do first and foremost, because you know, our people, they don't really know you well. So of course I know you Nate very well. But I want everyone to get to know you. So first, can you guys tell us a little bit about how you discovered the Enneagram and your type, but also then how did you discover you had ADHD? What was your age, what was going on and also the benefits that you've experienced knowing not only your Enneagram type, but also that you have ADHD and then combine that all with. How does getting certified as a coach actually benefit you or having been coached with ADHD benefit you as well? So it's a lot, but I think it's going to be really important for people to really understand who you are and your background.

What is an ADHD Coach?

Leslie 6:32

well I have I'm, I'm 52 and I have three boys and my two older sons, they give me permission to share do have ADHD and we, they were diagnosed early, early on. And so I was always right there with them trying to help scaffold them and maybe do a little bit too much when they were younger because I didn't know what I was doing and how we were navigating it. And so I, oh, there were a lot of. There was a lot of growing and learning and mistakes that I made. And then by the time my middle son was in high school, I was talking with a friend and she said, you know, you ought to be an ADHD coach and I'm just because we were sharing information. I'm like, what even is that? I had no idea. And so, so I kind of Googled some coaching programs and found the training program that I landed on, which is ADCA, the AD, ADD coach Academy. I was probably about halfway through my coursework when I realized I probably had ADHD. That's fascinating. Yeah. So probably around 47 or so, I was like, okay, this is hitting home. There were certain things that resonated with me. I was good in school. I I'm a nine on the Enneagram. I probably started delving in and learning about Enneagram. About the same time I started doing some of this coaching, the ADHD coach training. So it's kind of simultaneous, interestingly enough, but I had that one wing. So I leaned into the perfectionistic piece. And so, I wanted to, I really wanted to do well. So I I also chose my college courses based on interest. I set myself up for success without even realizing I was, you know, doing what my ADD brain needed. But I think I kind of hit my wall, probably when I started having kids, I started feeling more overwhelmed. Um, you know, trying to manage three, three boys and sports and school and helping ADHD, that type of thing. So, yeah, I guess. That's a little bit of that in a nutshell. I

Beth 8:35

don't know. And then, and then you also became a certified Enneagram coach with us as well. So, which is, which is one reason why I want you here because we're really marrying the two together because it's so beneficial. So why did you decide to get certified as an Enneagram coach while also being a certified ADHD coach?

Leslie 8:59

Well, the certification to me is just, it's important because I, it's, I guess it's something that I need to, to, for myself, I want to go through that training. I could have read all the books and for either ADHD or Enneagram, but I really wanted that, that knowledge that came from like such a strong, good source. And from. like you guys that you're so knowledgeable and have done so much work there. And it just, it helped with my own confidence, I think. But I, when I started learning about my own number as a nine, I really realized I began to see things that I didn't. I was completely unaware of like that, that need for peace. And that's the motivator. And oftentimes with ADHD, I feel like we struggle with the motivation piece. So if we can hone in on that and we can bring in that piece and combine it with who we are and how we're wired and what we need to do to support it, then it's just. that much more impactful. And I feel like you can go deeper, faster when you understand someone's Enneagram type, and then you understand their particular type of ADHD and how it's affecting them. And then the blending is just that, I don't know, it's just the double. It's like supercharged. Yeah. Yeah. It gets

Beth 10:14

me really excited. Oh, yeah. I love it. Yeah, it's been just the things, Nate, that you've talked to me you know, the living room and the, just the insights and stuff it is. It's it for those that have ADHD that are listening or loved ones that are listening, it just really hones in more specifically. It's more dialed in or tailored to. Them, you know, now, of course, each Enneagram type, you know, is different, so to speak, right? Like we have some of the basic underlying core motivations, but we're all individuals and same with ADHD. It's not like everyone has the exact same ADHD. So, which from my understanding has been really important to have individual coaching so that. Someone like you guys can really understand that person at hand and make sure that they're getting the right tools in their tool chest. Now we'll get into that, but Nate, can you tell everyone when you started learning about the Enneagram, which of course that was way back in the day, you probably don't even remember when you started hearing about the Enneagram, but. Tell people a little bit about your journey and how you found about your type and then definitely the road to discovering that you had ADHD.

Nate 11:31

Yeah I'll try to keep it brief. Because I have a history of going way too far back in time, but I, I went back and forth between my type. With you through elementary school. So went back and forth between a one and a two, cause I first and foremost cared so much about people, helping people, being with people, all that stuff. But I was also, you know, first born kid, you know, just wanted to kind of do the right thing and keep it orderly and follow the rules and stuff. And middle school I start to experience a lot more challenges, especially academically, not in my performance, but more so I start noticing that I have a reading disability, just like my mom and my grandfather, my great grandfather did. But I think only my mom had gotten a diagnosis, but it wasn't very specific. It was just a general, you have a reading disability. So we started to pick that up, but I wasn't getting as much help as I needed. And also my ADHD wasn't being noticed. And that blended with, just

Beth 13:00

to kind of jump in there just real quick at what's so interesting from a parenting perspective is you weren't hyperactive in the, in the typical sense that people think of that word. You know, like when people hear ADHD and I know you guys are going to get into this later, you know, you're just thinking of kids that are bouncing off the wall and that was so not you now there's other tendencies that go along with that or hyperactivity that you guys will talk about, but I think that's really important for parents out there to realize, look, we're not We're not just talking about finding a kid that is bouncing off the walls. It can manifest in so many other ways. And that's why you went undiagnosed for so long because that wasn't how you manifested. So anyway, keep going. Middle school, your ADHD wasn't being noticed.

Nate 13:46

Yeah. And then that mixed with problems that had happened with my friends and. or just the world and kind of stuff. Like it was just very apparent, very quick that I was a six and it was all about loyalty and justice and fairness and all of that stuff. And so, yeah, it was very clear starting in middle school that it was like, Oh, Nate's a six. And then, It was about what a year, a little over a year ago. Well, two years ago is when I got diagnosed with ADHD. Dyslexia and depression all within the span of about a month. I was in grad school and, I had gone pretty much since middle school through college of never reading a textbook. Because there was a lot of shame with it. It took me so much longer than everyone else. And I could get by with really great grades without doing it. And I just thought I was good at scraping by. And when,

Beth 14:53

and actually when you look back now as an adult, you're like, I guess I was pretty smart. I went through all of college, you know, and got a 3. 5, right? Wrecking a book. I mean, That shows a lot of, you know, not just intellectual smarts, but street smarts too, of how to get by, which a lot of ADHD years, as I've heard, really have had to learn along the way. But then when you went to grad school, it all kind of caught, caught up with you because you had to read more and that really started making it more challenging. It

Nate 15:28

was in the weird thing was like, Grad school was still pretty easy for me. I, I just had learned to think about things and to, just learn things on my own. and, but the problem was, was that I wanted to start paying more attention and I wanted to start reading through all the books. And Just being fully attentive through grad school. And that's when my body was like physically shutting down, like falling asleep five minutes into class, even though I got a full night's sleep and felt super energetic beforehand. There were just things about my body that, we're starting to go even more so these symptoms. and so I got diagnosed, with that. And. It was really helpful, actually. It was sad because I was sad as to how long I'd gone without being diagnosed, but I was also thankful that there was, that it was being named. Mm hmm. and that I could start focusing on that. Yeah. and then about a year ago is when I met Leslie, talking to her about becoming an Enneagram coach with us. And she was like, I'm actually already a life coach. I'm an ADHD coach. And I was like, what in the world is that?

Beth 16:51

Like, wait, what? This is a thing.

Nate 16:54

And so, pretty much what ADHD coaching is, is, you know, we've got a few different kind of pillars of ADHD treatment. So you've got medicine, which is probably what most people think about first. And what medicine helps do is kind of level the playing field for the ADHD brain. ADHD is really just a loss of blood flow to their frontal cortex, which affects the executive functioning skills for the person. And so that's why when you hear about ADHD traits, One, there's a gazillion of them. And they all sound like normal people problems. The thing is, is it's actually Biological and physio, physiological for the person that it's actually their brain that is not able to really have these executive functioning skills like neurotypical people might and so where ADHD coaches can come in is alongside either medication or diet and exercise. Is education and also help building structure around their lives to help utilize their brain and brain wiring to what it's strengthened to do and to also provide structure where it might be weak, you know, and so, for instance most likely, my grandfather, your dad has ADHD, and for the longest time, he carries index cards in his, like, shirt pocket and he will write, I mean, just everything he needs to remember in his entire life on those note cards. He does, yeah. And it's just. A very classic story of an ADHDer that found something that actually helped them with their working memory. Yeah. And so, that's kind of similar to what ADHD coaching is. And that's why it needs to be very tailor made. And so, you know, some people talk about ADHD as self regulation disorder or dopamine deficiency disorder. And that's because you know, our brain is having trouble regulating dopamine, which is the chemical we need to focus on things. And so, Really what ADHD comes down to a lot of times, especially within coaching and self regulation for the ADHD er is interest because interest drives the creation of dopamine in our brain. And so we work a lot from the base and structure of interest to help build onto things of whether it's gamifying the things that are boring, doing the things that you love. If you notice an ADHD er does not have trouble focusing on something that they love to do. In fact, they probably have a hard time focusing on everything else besides the thing that they love to do. Isn't

Beth 20:07

it, isn't it called like hyper focus? Yeah.

Nate 20:11

Yeah, exactly. And so, yeah, and so that's kind of where ADHD coaching comes into place. And Leslie, if you have anything else to add on to that, feel free. Yeah,

What are Executive Functioning Skills?

Leslie 20:23

well, one of the ways I like to picture this is like, remember during COVID and we had these pictures of all of these cargo ships, you know, with all the, all, you know, with all the, you know, containers on them and everything, but they couldn't get to the other, they couldn't get them into port. Right. And, and get the, the containers distributed to where they needed to go. That's kind of what's happening in our brains and it's biological and it's invisible. And so while sometimes we may look like we're, we're doing well, and we're able to hit the mark on a lot of things and focus and activation and follow through. And, It's situational, and there's a lot of situational variability, and other times we may not be able to do that, and, and we may be unaware as to why, and that's frustrating to us, but as children, you know, and, and parents looking at, at their children and saying, Oh, well, you were able to do this yesterday. Why can't you do it today? And then that's perplexing. And so, you know, And then, but you're exactly right, Nate. As far as that interest piece, it's, it's so key to the ADD or I'll say ADD or, but I'm ADHD is, is I'm kind of interchanging it, meaning the same thing. The actual, oh, can I say something about that too, is that the actual diagnosis is ADHD. And you mentioned that hyperactivity piece. There's three, Okay. presentations of ADHD. There's the hyperactivity presentation. There is the inattentive presentation. And then there's the combined type of where it's a little bit of both. And where the hyperactivity falls into place with the inattentive is the cognitive hyperactivity. They may not be bouncing off the walls, but their brain isn't shutting down. They're getting this. constant bombardment of, of thoughts and they can't turn their brain off and it's, it can be a little overwhelming for, for the unintended, or it kind of nice because you get lost in your thoughts and it's kind of a fun place to be sometimes, which can correlate with some Enneagram types

Beth 22:21

too. Yeah, exactly. That's, what's so fascinating about bringing these two together is you can kind of see, and we're going to get into that. You guys are going to like. Talk through each of the nine types and how ADHD can kind of manifest a little bit differently in each of the types, or I guess, heighten some aspects of their type, but also how it's a superpower, you know, and I kind of can't wait to get tell type nine. Cause it has really been a superpower for me and one of my greatest weaknesses as well. And I think. You know, everyone's going to see that, you know, for themselves that have ADHD and some of the things that you're going to highlight.

Leslie 22:58

So 1 of the other things that is is really good to to kind of focus on a little bit and we referenced it earlier are the executive function skills and, and Nate, you mentioned that, you know, it's, they kind of reside in that prefrontal cortex and, and what that encompasses are things like planning, prioritizing, organizing, sustained attention activation follow through, emotional and self regulation it, it may even being able to be flexible And having flexibility and being able to navigate transitions. So it's, it's that and, and, and more, but a lot of those particular skills can be learned, but they, but they are also difficult for, for the ADD er to, to pick up on naturally because, because of the biological brain chemistry that's going on. And that's why it's unique brain wiring, because it's so specific to the individual. Wow. That's

Nate 23:57

interesting. Yeah. I was in one of Adka's classes the other day, and they were, you know, talking about how some people might struggle to, and especially parents with their own kids might be struggling with, well, I was able to do this when I was their age, or kids of their age group are able to do this You know, why can't they, or they can do it sometimes, but not all the time. And there is this really good story of an experience that a guy named copper would ask parents to put their dominant hand in a sling for like a few hours or the day or something like that. And to do everything with their non dominant hand. And this would give the parents experience. from their child's perspective of trying to fight their dominant and unique brain wiring. And

Beth 25:00

Okay, so, so let me just kind of rephrase that. Let me see if this is where you're going with that. So, the neurotypical, those that don't have ADHD parents, they're like, why is my kid like this? Like, sometimes they're able to do these things, sometimes they're not. Like, why can't they just get their act together? And what you're saying is if you were to put your non dominant hand in a sling, it feels so awkward to do things with that because you're, you're, the wiring in your mind is not used to using that less dominant hand. And so it takes so much more time and effort to figure out how to use that less dominant hand to do the things that you can do. Easily with your other hand. Is that what you're saying? And so this gives parents or those that have loved ones that have ADHD a glimpse of, Oh, that's why it takes you so long to, let's say develop a schedule or routines or stick with things. Cause that's just not how you typically are hardwired as an ADHD. Or is that kind of what you're saying? The metaphor.

Nate 26:06

Yeah, yeah, like when I was in high school I had fractured my finger and I had to get a metal pin in it. And so I think it was six to eight weeks or so that I pretty much couldn't really use my right hand that much and that's my dominant hand. And I remember that basketball season was coming, and so, I practiced a lot with my left hand. Yeah. And to tie in this metaphor, sometimes I would hit shots with my left hand. But it was Far less consistent. There was apples, little thumbs up thing. It was far less consistent and I was not skilled enough to know the likelihood of me actually making the shot. And so I had to have this new perspective. And expectation for how I was going to be able to use my left hand instead of my right and knowing that I can still develop it to be a very strong hand and even to be nearly as strong as my dominant, but I had to go about it in a completely different way and kind of starting from that ground zero. And that's why coaches can be so helpful because they really can help you start from that ground zero, that new perspective and build from the education of ADHD and understanding that person's specific brain wiring and specific interests.

Beth 27:42

When I also imagine, at least from my own perspective, is. I do so much better when I have someone in my corner that understands my own struggles or issues and can guide me, you know, just kind of, it gives me that motivation or that interest versus I would imagine people with ADHD, they're typically being put in boxes or people are frustrated with them or why can't you do such, you know, said thing, you know, so you're constantly bumping up against. Individuals or people in your life that are frustrated with you versus having someone like a coach. That's like, Hey, here's what's going on. Here's a ways that we can help you specifically learn and your metaphor shoot with your left hand. It's going to be hard, but over time we can get you there. Not that it will maybe always be as easy as your right hand, but we can get you Some really good help and get motivation. Is that kind of what coaching is, is doing is coming alongside and being that, that kind of that encouraging piece and that mirror to the individual.

Nate 28:49

Yeah, exactly.

Leslie 28:52

Yeah. Sorry. And it's a part, no, I was just going to say too, as a partnership, you know, it's not us telling them what our clients, what to do. We work together. Oftentimes our clients will know exactly what works for them, but but it takes some uncovering. And practice and experimentation to figure it out. And maybe we tweak it a little bit. And so, there is a little bit of an experimentation and we want to work from our strengths always, always, always. And so that's really key to how, how we coach our ADHD clients. And really I have some clients that don't have ADHD and I always start with strengths. Because it's so much easier to make forward progress when you're starting from that place versus trying to dig yourself out of that,

Beth 29:35

that one, especially with weakness, especially with people, ADHD years that lack motivation and that's what they need is motivation. Then yeah, it's so much easier to be motivated when you're really good at something. So that makes total sense.

Nate 29:49

Yeah. Okay. Where the Enneagram can really help and that's, you know, kind of the job of any coach is. We want to work ourselves outside, out of a job, right? Yeah. So the goal is self regulation or being able to help manage your self, whether it's external or internal. And so working from our strengths, we have to learn what our strengths are, remember them, build structure to make sure that those are kind of the shining star in a sense. But also have spaces to help kind of, you know, give almost like training wheels to the parts that are weak or, you know, just guides and stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Beth 30:41

Yeah. That's amazing. Well. As you know, I've been super excited about Nate, you know, your certification and this, you know, you're already a certified Enneagram coach. And then you added this just like, well, Leslie, you've got the certification. Then you became an Enneagram coach. And I've really been intrigued with all the things that Nate shares with me over time, especially when it comes to. Well, what does ADHD kind of look like, or how does it, how could it potentially manifest in each of the nine Enneagram types? So I'd like to dive into that. I would like to talk about, or have you guys talk about what are some of the typical aspects that we might see that arise for each of the nine types, maybe in ways that are Difficult, maybe more challenging but also how can some of these parts of them, these aspects of ADHD actually create a superpower for their said type. So can we kind of go through each of the nine types in that way? Yeah, definitely. Okay. So who wants to start with type one? Nate, you want to go with that one?

Nate 31:46

And just a preface we probably won't give specific action items for each type. So if you're expecting that, just, you know, giving you a preface. And the reason that is, is kind of what we were talking earlier about the interest piece you know, for the interest piece, like, it could be that for me like, I really love coffee and the experience of making, like, really intricate, like, nuanced coffees, and And so that can be part of my morning routine that really starts to wake up my brain, give me that dopamine so that as I'm starting my work day, it's kind of like, okay, I've done something that I really love that really gets my brain going. And now I can kind of transition into work helping my brain kind of get up to speed for the rest of the day. And so that's where. It just would be tricky for us to give action items for each type that that would for people that also have ADHD because it's more about just the day to day interests, not just kind of the core motivation stuff. And so, you know, we wanted to give you guys some ways in which we could see ADHD impact types in both. You know, somewhat negative ways or heightened, you know, with some of the traits. But also the positives. And so just to give that a preface.

Beth 33:19

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. All right. So type. Oh, go

Leslie 33:22

ahead. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I just had a thought. So before we go in, Nate, before you start talking about the type ones, I wanted to just mention this before we got into all of the types is that there's a specific trait that isn't measured by the DSM 5 when a diagnosis is being made for someone with ADHD and that, The name of that trait is rejection sensitive dysphoria or RSD. And I think it feel like this can present itself in different ways for each number, but it's just a strong feeling. It's, it's almost as painful, gut wrenching kind of knife in the heart feeling of like if you may have said something and you think it, you said it wrong, or you. You know, or, or maybe, you know, it was a joke that didn't land and, but it's just, or, or you did something that you felt like impacted somebody and whether it's true or not, it could completely not even be true, but in your, in your heart or your gut or your mind, you're thinking, Oh, I've made a bad mistake. And. Everybody can feel this way or have this, you know, RSD, an RSD moment. But for the, for someone with ADHD, it can happen a lot more frequently. So I wanted to touch on that one because that's something that not a lot of people know about if they're not familiar with ADHD.

Beth 34:42

Also, I just wanted to touch on this and to see your guys's take on it is Nate, I think you had mentioned that. A lot of times people are diagnosed with depression when in fact it might just be that they are struggling with any kind of dopamine regulation because they're not getting the dopamine hits that maybe a nor normal or a neurotypical person has, and therefore the lack of motivation can feel and land on them as depression. And I know watching you when you are on your medication there is. Like you said, it brings you up to that, just the normal level field of feeling normal versus feeling that sense of depression because of the lack of motivation. Is that, am I speaking correctly on this?

Leslie 35:32

Yeah, I would, you know, Nate, you speak for yourself, but there, there can also be coexisting conditions that come alongside with ADHD. Many times that's the case. And and then. But it can definitely present like something else too. So you can elaborate more for your experience for sure.

Nate 35:50

Yeah yeah, and, and obviously we're not doctors or medical professionals, and so it's harder to speak on this per se, but yes, most people with ADHD, especially when like, just in the coaching world, it has been a and Come to coaching with very low self esteem. Maybe depression, maybe anxiety. And those symptoms can either be you know, actual. psychological depression and anxiety and stuff, but it can also be symptoms of their ADHD,

Enneagram Type 1

Beth 36:37

which is probably why it's so important to seek medical help through, you know, psychiatrist, maybe a psychologist who can rightfully understand the differences which I think I know that you guys alluded to at the beginning, like, you know, this is co you guys are talking about coaching, but I do think it's important for us to realize that there's multiple layers happening here. And it's really important for us to go seek that medical aspect of it, to understand the physiological body aspect and get that also worked out while also having someone like you guys come along. And like you said, it's a partnership and walking alongside each of the nine types that have ADHD to highlight where they're really strong, but also things that can trip them up. And so I just wanted to bring that up because I, I found that really interesting. And especially as I reflect on myself and some of the past you know, years as I'm trying to figure out if I have ADHD or not, I've had situations where I'm like, huh, I don't know if I was really depressed or if I lack such motivation that it felt that way. So I'm interested for myself to go get medical Feedback on what's going on, you know, so I think it's important for everyone that might be interested or feeling that they have ADHD or do they not to go seek that medical help so that they can know exactly, you know, what's going on. So I just wanted to touch on that briefly. But Nate, I'll let you then jump into type one, our principled reformer.

Nate 38:07

Yeah. So for The type one some of the ADHD traits that are going to be super impacted. namely kind of probably the most prominent one will be the perfectionism piece. And so for ADHD years, perfectionism can be just a, a very large struggle for them in trying to reach. And I think some of that comes from, you know, the place, at least from in my experience of. It's hard for us to completely see either what reality is for others or for the general population because we are, you know, classified as neurodivergent, that we see the world from this different perspective because of our brain wiring. And so a lot of times for ADHDers, we have these very lofty expectations of ourselves, that we think we can always be this super huge version of ourselves, and it's not, it's, it's, you know, it's different than confidence or just courage and who we are, but it can be more so the unrealistic, unhelpful projection of what we should be. And so I think for the Type 1. the perfection of perfectionism piece might be very heightened for type ones. And on top of that, you know, with some of the executive functioning skills, one thing ADHDers experience is what's called emotional flooding. And so it's this overwhelming sense of emotions and kind of the the inability to control their emotions to control and regulate their internal world on a regular basis. And so for the type one, that perfectionist piece and the shame that comes with that and the inner critic can just really boil up and just really really harp on the type one struggle with perfectionism. Wow. And then something that we also noted was there might be some struggle with procrastination and a sense of time blindness. So time blindness is the struggle for ADHD years to have a A consistent perspective of time of how long things take you know, how much time they have to get ready, how much time to certain tasks take all this kind of stuff. And so that shame and criticism can really build on whenever. They fail to be on time, get something done on time, meet those expectations. And there was an article that explained that a lot of ADHDers experience perfectionism in that they are not perfectly prepared to do something. And therefore, the procrastination piece can really be prominent. And so, you know, we were curious and we'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments. As to if you're a type one, if you experience some of your perfectionism and procrastination as I'm not perfectly prepared to get started, it needs to be just. Perfect for me to feel like I can move into it and get started or else I feel like it won't come out the way that I expect.

Leslie 42:00

On that note too, it's also, do I have the, is it the perfect time for me to start planning something? If I, if I anticipate an interruption, that's going to throw me off because interruptions can really make us lose track of where we are. And if we know we can't hyper focus on what we want to do, if it's not the perfect time, we may avoid it or put it off or procrastinate until we think we have the perfect time, which then time blindness comes back into play because. of our ability to feel time. Yeah,

Beth 42:33

that makes total sense. Wow.

Enneagram Type 2

Nate 42:37

Yeah, and then, you know, some of the helpful aspects for the Type 1, we think that the hyperfocus can be a huge strength. And, you know, there's a, there's somewhat of a difference between hyperfocus that's more so tunnel vision. So we zone everything else out and it can actually be hurtful to you know, whether it's relationships or work or whatever it is. But the type ones can really get things done. And the beauty about the ADHD here and their brain wiring is that when they love doing something, they will be very committed and they will just. thrive in it. And so alongside the dutifulness of the type one and the perfectionistic piece, the hyper focus can really help them get zoned in on the things that they're really passionate about. And also, you know, the ADHD brain can be very creative and spontaneous and people oriented. And so it can really bring that type one to the healthy spaces of the seven and the four and the two. And, you know, and so it, I think the ADHD brain wiring. Can actually really benefit in you might experience type ones with ADHD is very fun. And a little abnormal from most ones where, you know, they might be, you know, heavily into that seven path or heavily into that for path. And so those are some of the ways in which we could see. The ADHD brain wiring really be

Beth 44:29

helpful for the time. Oh, I think that's, that's fascinating. Okay. So do you have something else to add? Well,

Leslie 44:34

I was just thinking too, as you were saying that Nate, is that it can help with the rigidity that sometimes ones might feel like they, you know, have, they have the list and it has to be done this way. Being able to move into those healthy spaces of, of the, of their other paths can really Thank you. Bring back or bring in flexibility to. Yeah,

Beth 44:54

which is awesome, which is great. Yeah. So, and I, and I think this is so wonderful because yes, we, we, as we do with the Enneagram, we have, it's a nonjudgmental friend. We need. And then for those that have ADHD, how does ADHD compact or compound some things, but also how does it create a super power? And so I love how you guys are highlighting both aspects for people to understand. Okay. So Leslie, why don't we move into type two, the nurturing supporter? Okay.

Leslie 45:28

Yeah. So one of the traits that we felt like could be really impactful for the type two is that impulsivity and reacting on the impulsivity of helping others and not maybe having some awareness of like, do they need our help? You know, are we overstepping boundaries? Are, are we time blind in this too, especially like with our own, like our own things that we have to get done as a two And we put our needs aside for helping that impulsivity of helping others. And it can be so reactionary sometimes. And then there's that, there's also that piece of possibly overgiving or oversharing of information which can come into play. And I think, I feel like prioritizing an organization kind of come into play with. Some of that as well. And again, that emotional regulation piece of being impacted by, Oh, well, they, they aren't appreciating what I'm doing for them. And then we can, you know, there may be some resentment and some things that pop up as well as overwhelm. And then, and then going back to the boundary piece, our, our, our twos aware of setting up good boundaries for themselves because they struggle with identifying their needs. And are they aware of other people's boundaries and, and overstepping those with that impulsivity?

Beth 46:43

Yeah, that makes, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. They're going to be naturally impulsive to help people that they see need help, you know, and. that self regulation of taking a step back and going, okay, is that my responsibility? Is that what I'm supposed to be doing right now? And then again, like you said, the time blindness, they might be like, Oh, I can just quickly do that, you know, cause I know everything can feel urgent, you know, or important. But when really maybe that isn't the most important thing that they should be doing, but it's hard when it feels motivating. To get, let's say, you know, like a hit of love or appreciation from someone after helping them. So I can see how that can really be effective or affecting to a type two. What are some of the benefits, like the superpowers that it has?

Enneagram Type 3

Leslie 47:29

Wow. They're so great. Well, okay. So this is what one thing that's also really neat about ADHD is that We are really good at recognizing patterns. And I feel like each number has a different like gift and pattern recognition. And that is especially true for the twos because they see it's intuitive. It's almost like fast processing download where they're picking up on the needs of others. And I think that's so beautiful. And that's where they're gifted. That's also where the interest piece is. And, and, and can really drive. The two when they're in that healthy space as well. And they're so honest and authentic and ADHD years. Love authenticity and and it's, and it can help balance out not that their intention is to be passive aggressive or manipulative, but it can help balance that out. And so that what they're trying to do is especially when they're aware that, oh, maybe I need to pause and check my motivation. How authentic am I being? And, and I want to, I want my loved ones to know that this is coming from a good place.

Beth 48:40

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think the biggest thing for the type twos out there to know if that's true or not is are there strings attached, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So am I truly giving out of an authentic place of my heart out of true love? And if so, the answer will be yes, if I don't have string of text, I don't need something back from someone, appreciation or thankfulness. Now, of course, that would be kind of others to do that, but I don't need it because I'm giving it to myself. And so that. That's a great aha moment for the twos in that space. That's

Leslie 49:16

a big piece too, because oftentimes we forget that we can give ourselves these things that we

Beth 49:21

exactly. Exactly. Okay, Nate, so why don't we jump into type three, the admirable achiever?

Enneagram Type 4

Nate 49:29

Yeah. So type three, one thing that might be very, very prominent for them. With their ADHD brain wiring is the shame piece in the emotional regulation. So, for the ADHD er, their brain is going to primarily be on the negativity bias. Now for a lot of these types might have some of the counterbalance, you know, for a lot of the more optimistic types. And so that might be a real help. And for the type three, you know, with the, you know, core weaknesses being the shame it can really, they can really struggle with the emotional self regulation. Because their brain is going to ruminate so much more on those defects and then trigger them to try that much harder to achieve and to achieve. They might also notice that they're much more focused on achieving for others because it's common that the ADHD brain is very people focused and people interest. And so, you know, we've heard stories of You know, people with ADHD that are threes, and a lot of it is kind of the people closest in their life, and they're like, well, I need to do this because they think I should, or I need to be this because this person said I should and then to know that. They might be very aware of, you know, how they're externally presenting themselves as threes are, and that might help them really counterbalance the self awareness piece that the ADHD er lacks. But I think the self regulation and the emotional regulation piece will be exaggerated a little bit more and then for the helpful aspects, you know, it's going to really help that three be more authentic and kind of have some more of that counterbalance they might, you know, a lot of threes can be very, lofty, big picture thinkers, and the ADHD brain is just gonna like double down on that. And, you know, all the kind of daydreaming and, and just creativity piece just will be heightened. And with the authenticity piece, it can really help them go to that six part, you know, where it brings that healthy balance and it brings the kind of team oriented you know, people focused and yeah. And just brave part of themselves. And then the other thing was we were saying about patterns and pathways to success. And then some ways the three helps with the ADHD is how natural it is for threes to set lists and to prioritize. And so that can be kind of a counterbalance as well. And so some of these traits that we might be talking about today, you might say, Well, I have ADHD and I am that type, but that doesn't exactly fit me. And that's just because of, you know, our personality and our story and how we develop things. even in our weaknesses to be strengths because of what we needed. And then there will be things where you're like, Oh yeah, that's really tough. And, you know, and so just understand that everyone's going to be different. So don't take these as like, this is exactly how it's

Beth 53:33

Yeah, that's great. So let's dive into type four, the introspective individualist. So Leslie, why don't you take that one on? Okay.

Enneagram Type 5

Leslie 53:43

Okay. Well, type four is, wow. They, they're such an amazing type. I will say creativity is big for ADHD years. But this is, it really kind of shows here in the type fours. I think it's, When Nate and I were talking, we were really kind of looking at this the trait that would be impactful for the four would be that emotional and self regulation piece. Um, you know, they aren't afraid to move into the melancholy, which can, you know, if we're not careful, could lead into the negative. And because Interesting. Things of interest can also be negative interest. So we have to really be aware of that in our with the negativity bias, because that can pull us into that room and rumination. And we can sit in a spiral on, on a lot of those things. And so that's something to really be cognizant of and to recognize that when we've maybe been there too long Yeah. What do we need to do to get out of that space? And fours are, seem to be very comfortable in that, in that place. So they can stay there maybe a little bit longer than other types might be. But then there's that time blindness, you know, we may not know how long we've been, you know, thinking about those things. And they also may present more as inattentive in their heads, kind of thinking about some of these things, which can then impact the working memory and distraction because maybe they're, they're thinking about, you know, Whatever, you know, whatever thoughts going through their head, they're kind of wrapped up with that. And then they're not in the present so that they're not holding on to like, if they're in class, they may not be holding on to what the instructor said and that type of thing. And they're easily distracted. And then there's the difficulty with organization, possibly some cognitive hyperactivity procrastination and following through and flexibility here as well. And then the boundaries may be difficult here. And sometimes it happens with a, with, with folks with ADHD, they can, because of that awareness and there's this belief that every body has good intentions, not, I mean, they might be taken advantage of not that we all have, you know, that belief that everybody has good intentions. Some are, some are more cynical than others, but that's something to also be mindful of. And then and then they may overcorrect and then set. Really harsh boundaries where it's kind of all or nothing. So, because they don't want that to happen to them again. And that type of thing. So helpful aspects. I would say that moving into some of that perfectionism piece of the one, but I like to look at this as appreciation of beauty and excellence. I mean, this is where they can get really creative and, and really do some beautiful out of the box. Thinking and, and developing of, of things whether it be art, music, whatever their interest is. And this is where the pattern recognition comes into play as well. For their, for that creativity. Nate, did I, did I leave anything out on the fours? I feel like I kind of. Went a little fast.

Beth 56:43

No, I yeah. Well, go ahead, Nate.

Nate 56:46

I was just gonna say, I think, you know, with the love that the ADHD or has for people I think will present itself a lot in that for moving kind of to the two. in that they will want to be very present with people and very engaged and emotionally attuned and able to sit with them in the difficult things. And the authenticity piece is going to be very strong with that four as well as the six and we'll talk about that in a little bit. That's

Beth 57:21

so true. And the intuition of the four, they're so, yeah, they're so intuitive naturally, but then when you bring it with the ADHD aspect, plus, like you were saying, Nate, moving into that two space, they're not only able to understand themselves, but they're able to understand others and move into that space and really sit with people and difficult, you know, moments that not all the nine types really want to do. So I think that can be true as well. All right. So Nate, why don't you jump into type five, the analytical investigator? Yeah.

Enneagram Type 6

Nate 57:55

So for the type five the hyper focus of areas of interest might be. Even more so. And you might ask yourself, how is that possible for the five? Um, well, essentially, it might really create a struggle of the tunnel vision, you know, and also with the body battery of whether it's the social battery of dealing with people but also, you know, for the ADHD er, they can often have struggle, struggles with sleep because their brain tends to wake up more at night, and they might stay up too late, and not get enough sleep, and have trouble waking up, and then their overall body battery is even less So, some of the activation and time blindness could be a real struggle. A lot of the social skills of self awareness and emotional awareness you know, kind of the reading of the room or monologuing about their interests. Can be a little bit more heightened you know, some of the impulsivity of, you know, a lot of people with ADHD can really struggle with money because of that impulsivity piece and kind of the unawareness of what their financials are. And sometimes that's not true because of, you know, story and, and, and how you were raised. But for the five, that could also be a big piece of, let's say, they're super into books. And it's like, Just buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, you know, like I just need all the things to be prepared. And then one of the other things was that perfectionistic piece of being capable, being prepared, you know, for whatever might come their way, that perfectionistic piece might really drive them forward and it can do that in healthy ways, you know, in that that can be a very good strength of the five, but it can also heighten that weakness for them. of the never feeling like they are actually prepared. They actually know enough. They're actually capable enough. Yeah. And then some of the helpfulness I actually have a friend who is a five and has ADHD and man, he is so incredibly authentic. and creative. He's a graphic designer and so he's just so he's so patient with his work and he just it's so intricate and creative and and so yeah you can just see a lot of the traits for the five really heightened in that helpful space of he's so good at his craft. And the often to city piece is really beautiful where he just welcomes the challenges and welcomes the agree to disagree or let's You know, talk things out piece. They can be very out of the box thinkers and very focused on what they love. You know, like I said earlier, where even though it can be a weakness where they're tunnel visioned, it can also be a great strength in which they're really not distracted by things that might stray them from their overall goal. Um, you know, I think part of the five that might have a helpful counterbalance is the working memory piece. And you know, of what they really care about. They really will have this kind of this system in their brain that is just so good at memory for what, you know, they're really caring about. And then just the curiosity and love of learning that the ADHD brain brains can really heighten that for a five.

Beth 1:01:58

That's so, so fascinating. I too have a five in my life and I can see so many key aspects that have blessed him and being an ADHD er with his type five strength and just the, He's a doctor and just the patients he's been able to help by being so hyper focused in his own research and, and care to understand his craft and the, the medicine that he actually uses to help his patients is really next to none. It's just remarkable. Okay. So Leslie, you're going to tackle type six, which is

Leslie 1:02:34

Nate's domain. I don't mind. Yeah,

Beth 1:02:36

those again. Okay. So Nate, why don't you take. Type six, which is your domain, your type. And then Leslie, if you find anything he's missing, you could, or forgot, you can jump

Enneagram Type 7

Nate 1:02:45

in. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things that we really focused on was the catastrophizing and the negative bias. So for the six. Their perfectionism kind of lies in avoiding all the problems, thinking of all the things that are going to happen so that everything will run smoothly, so that you don't run into the problems. And so for the six and especially in my own experience of being a six with ADHD it can really show up in that I have a really hard time of emotionally regulating and having that self awareness. Wow, I'm that far into this catastrophizing mindset. I've been spiraling for the past hour and I wasn't realizing it, you know, or some of my reactions can be from a very unrealistic assumption of what might come and what problems might come. And so, what's interesting to me and kind of us thinking about this was I could easily see how this emotional flooding piece for the ADHD area type six can show differently between the three subtypes. Where the phobic six might be, you know, more of the flight in the fight, flight, freeze the counter phobic is going to move towards the fight, you know, in their emotional flooding in reactiveness, and then I think for especially myself as a social six, I result a lot in the freeze. And I kind of moved to that nine space of like, okay, I'll just be codependent or okay, I'll just like, stay here and like, just, you know, take all of the heat in a sense. And so, yeah, so I think that rumination, emotional flooding. It might really heighten the emotional aspect for the six because they are the most emotional type within the thinking triad. But man, they're gonna be some fast thinkers. They're gonna be super authentic. Mom, you can attest to that. In both strengths and weaknesses. Very people oriented. Very passionate brave and courageous. I think we'll you know, just add on to those strengths. And just, just be very curious and thoughtful and and can really, you know, the type six can help the ADHD or be really attuned to people and can start to help with some of the self awareness and social skills piece because the six is so committed to being a loyal friend and a loyal teammate or whatever. It is for you.

Beth 1:05:49

No, that's so true. Everything you just said. So true. Yeah. Well, Leslie, why don't you tackle type seven, which seven? Yeah. The entertaining optimist.

Enneagram Type 8

Leslie 1:05:59

Yeah. So sevens some ADHD traits that may be impactful for them would be impulsivity and distraction especially on things that are interesting and fun. This. Might impact their ability to sustain focus like once they like get get into something that's fun And then they think of something else that's fun. Maybe they don't maybe they jump around to a lot of different things and following through May be difficult, but not if it's fun and novel Again that impulsivity piece May negatively impact spending habits and coping strategies and things like that. There's probably out of the nine types, what you say, Nate, that are, are really seeking the dopamine. Like they're, they're constantly looking for the more fun, the novelty, the interest. And this would be probably even more so true for sevens than, than any other number. And there may be some positive illusory bias here too, where sevens might think that they're doing really well in something or they're okay. They're managing it well because that the avoidance of, of, of the negative experiences or feelings. And that may cause them to not advocate for themselves. For example, like in a college experience, if they, they're like, I'm good, I'm doing good, I'm doing good. And then they're at the end of the semester and like, Oh, it might be too late for help kind of thing. And yeah. And let's see, I would say difficulty pursuing and persevering on a harder brain tasks like If it, if it's an executive function skill that they don't, that they struggle with, they're going to avoid it. Yeah, and then there's the procrastination and there may be some rumination too, on like this, there's this fantasy world in the world they want to live in and they may ruminate on the actual world. That they're in and focusing on the negative, not realizing that they're doing it. And so a little push and pull here between some of that. And so self regulation will be key. And emotional regulation too. And, and being, giving them. A space to acknowledge if there's something negative going on so they can move through it and get to the other side instead of just stuffing it down. Yeah. Healthy aspects, they're fun. They bring their creativity, their high energy, that hyperactive, impulsive, outgoing, spontaneous way about them. They're funny. Outgoing. I think I said that they can gamify things and that that's kind of a A strategy, Nate alluded to that in the very beginning. Like if there's a task that's difficult how can we make this fun? Well, there's all kinds of ways we can make it. Sevens can make things fun. And so leaning into that core of who they are and bringing that to, to play, that pattern recognition, picking up on the positives that other people may overlook or not even think about. And so they can bring some really good perspective and balance to a situation if it is. A negative situation, like maybe at work or it's leaning that way. They can bring some optimism there. And then again, they, they can bring levity and they're, they're naturally people oriented and they can hyper focus a one things we were talking about when we were Nate and I were going over this is that a seven may have difficulty planning and organizing and focusing, but if it's an adventure or like, an event for a fundraising cause that means something to them or a vacation. It may be the best ever because they're going to hyper focus and they're going to be able to plan and organize all

Beth 1:09:33

of it. That's right. And one thing I was thinking as you were talking about if they have a mundane task or something that takes a lot of executive function that they're not good at they might avoid it. Well, I think if we flip that, the positive thing about that, cause my dad's a seven and we think he pretty much has ADHD. He is incredible at delegating. Now, sometimes this can be a little annoying. Cause it's like, Hey, stop delegating everything that works for him. Like if he doesn't really want to do something or like something, or if he's not, let's say necessarily great at it, he'll delegate it and that has. Done him very well as a doctor, you know, delegating things to his nurses and staff and then he's very people oriented. And so, keeping it positive and fun. And so I think, you know, again, all of the aspects that you guys are talking about that can be hindrances, like you're saying, can be flipped and be flipped. turned into positives as well, because there's so many gifts that ADHD brings to each person. And then the nine types. Okay, Nate, you take type eight, are passionate protectors.

Nate 1:10:38

Yeah. So for the type eight really the emotional regulation piece will be most likely a really big struggle for the eight, especially with ADHD piece. And so, you know, not only will they struggle to be open and transparent about their emotional state. But it might be hard for them to even be aware of that emotional state. Because the ADHD er often will struggle with the self awareness and the emotional regulation piece. They might be good at self awareness in terms of how they externally present. But when it comes to the internals, it might be more of a struggle. Yeah.

Beth 1:11:35

One thing I just kind of want to point out, cause the eights might be out there going, what, I'm very authentic, you know, which is true. You are very authentic, but there is a big difference. I believe in being vulnerable and being transparent. And I think it's so transparency is I have calculated, you know, if you try to harm me with this piece of information, I've calculated that I'm okay with it. Like, I'm just going to put it out there. But true vulnerability and authenticity is more, I don't want someone to know this information because. You might harm me or betray me with this information or control me with it. And therefore I'm going to withhold it. And that's where I think they become unaware or not as authentic, meaning laying everything out there because eights are very prideful in their quote unquote authenticity and realness. And so I. Just kind of want to make that caveat that yes, they will say things, but it's really, it's really at that point of transparency, whether they've calculated the risks, but true vulnerability could be a real struggle for the eight. So anyway, saying that as a side note, keep going.

Nate 1:12:48

Yeah, exactly. And And, you know, some of the social skills might show up in, you know, what it's often experienced, which is that, you know, people might think, Oh, that person just doesn't like me. Or, Oh, like, you know, they're kind of a a snow plow, you know, the bulldozer. And so the ADHD brain might cause it to be more challenging to be self aware of that aspect of you know, their life and how they interact with people. Dr. Hallowell, who has written several books that are very popular in the ADHD space and understanding the ADHD are in their brain. And all of that commonly talks about the ADHD brain as if you're driving a Ferrari. And oftentimes that emotional regulation and self awareness piece for the ADHD brain, because it's at a deficiency, it can kind of be like having bicycle brakes on a Ferrari. And so for the eight, that could be even more true of kind of the impulsivity, the authenticity, the bluntness you know, the, I'm just gonna do it because like, that's my gut instinct. It can really be like driving a Ferrari with bicycle brakes. And so. You know, working on you know, building structure so that those brakes are stronger to to stop and slow down that fast car. And so, and we can also see how the eight and ADHD brain can really. kind of combined to be very tunnel visioned. It may be more isolated especially on the emotional side. But on a healthy side, I think the curiosity is really, really there. It's just really, they do really want to know people because at the end of the day, they do care. And some apes might externally present as, no, I don't, or like, you know, I, I I don't really want to be around people, but it's because of that hurt. But in reality, they do really care and they want to protect themselves and especially their inner circle. Yeah.

Beth 1:15:18

And also if I can just jump in there, you know, when I talk about AIDS, people are very familiar, they talk about them as a big diesel snow plow. Not just a little Ford pickup truck because they're designed to plow a path for others. And so when you combine their curiosity from that five space and their desire and willingness to plow a path or also known as helping people. So yeah, Yeah. So. They are phenomenal. So if they get really locked into that space, it allows their heart, heart to open up and to show their true kindness and love and sensitivity. That's really there. I mean, there's some of the most sensitive on the Enneagram but they usually kind of cover it up. At times because of fear of being harmed and hurt and betrayed. So I think what you're saying, which is so true, the eight is that if they're using that snow plow, that gifting that they have the way that they've been designed to help others, to plow a path for others versus maybe plowing over people, it can be so beneficial for everyone, including themselves.

Enneagram Type 9

Nate 1:16:25

Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, so we can move on just wrapping up a few of the things of You know, we, we think that the perseverance of an eight could really benefit them with their ADHD brain where that might be more difficult. And just the bravery the pattern recognition, the intuition of the eight. You know, the people orientedness of the ADHD brain can really help them go to the healthy side of two and the nine and seven, all of that. And so, yeah, we, it just, it would heighten so many great aspects of the eight and counterbalance it. In some really beautiful ways.

Leslie 1:17:11

Yeah, I thought of something to Nate to that curiosity piece is huge and can counterbalance some of the judgment or like their story and believe in and where there's curiosity, there can't be. Judgment. So, so bringing that in to really balance if they're, if they feel, you know, if they're overusing judgment in a sense that curiosity and love of learning can create this open mindedness and, and being open to different, you know, perspectives and that type of thing. And it can be really interesting too, for the aid. Yeah. That's

Beth 1:17:45

so good. All right, Leslie, our type. Type nine. Let's dive in. So being

Leslie 1:17:52

unaware. I'm ready. I'm ready. Inattentive and scatterbrained. Yeah. Or, or two that at the top of my list, as far as traits that can be impactful. Prioritizing and people pleasing. The way a lot of ADDers prioritize is not like in order, but like spreading it all out on the table and then picking out the thing that's interesting. And so that's definitely true for me and especially if it has to do with the people in my life and maybe I'm working with or volunteering with and then, you know, merging. And not being aware of what it is that I want. And that type of thing, telling a tight story is very difficult for nines or at least me cause we like to give all of the context. We feel like it's all important. And so that's a work in progress for me as well. And that can impact social skills and relationships. But sometimes that's also a need. Like we may have to say, Hey, I just need to verbally process this. And then I'll, I'll be able to have more clarity. It's just how our brains work. There can be overwhelmed and it can impact our ability to activate that RSD, I can speak for myself. I mean, if I, if I feel like I said the wrong thing, Oh my gosh. I could just feel like this wave of awfulness, like. Just kind of bathe over me and once I learned about what rejection sensitive dysphoria RSD was, I was like, I was able to acknowledge. Okay, that's what that was. It really wasn't as bad as I perceived it and I can move through it a lot faster. But that, that's that your presence matters. And if you don't feel like it matters, or if you feel like you said the wrong thing, it could really, it's, it, I know it, it impacts me. And it can impact my You know, my ability to, to focus and I can get kind of sideways and with that procrastination, perfection, going back to that one wing, you know, having the right time, the perfect amount of time it can impact that and avoidance to, we want to avoid the things that are difficult and are hard, or it might be a perceived conflict, it might be a conflict, yeah, avoidance kind of can come up into play as well. Let's see. Feeling pressure to make a decision can cause us to freeze and be stuck and overwhelmed. So we having space for us to be able to verbally process. And not be put on the spot with a, with an answer. Even if it's as simple as what do you want for dinner? I don't know, whatever you want. Like, I'm really, I don't care because I don't want to make a decision. So decisions can be hard.

Beth 1:20:27

Yeah, I think some of the words that you were saying, when I think about myself as a nine overwhelm is definitely a constant feeling that I have and, and now don't put me on the spot or I'll shut down, but one thing I was also, Oh, sorry. No, you go. Well, one thing I was also thinking was earlier when you were saying prioritizing. Mm-Hmm. That is so hard for me because I've told Jeff this, is that I feel like there's a whiteboard in my brain and everything that has to get done or that's important or has some sort of thing that I need to do or, or think of is just splattered on this whiteboard. Kind of like a Jackson Pollock, and I'm looking at it going. Okay. I don't, I don't know what to do first. Like what's the most important. And like you said, usually what's most important has to do with two things, either my motivation or someone else is asking me to do it. And then it's like, Oh, sure. I'll do that for you. I'll accommodate, you know, like, and so I can go usually down those two paths. But then what happens is then I'm on whatever else was truly important or urgent and And then now I feel overwhelmed again. So those, it's a spiral. Yeah, it's a spiral. And it helps me when I have people in my life that are really good or come alongside me and help me to organize that whiteboard in something that's a little bit more systematic. Now sometimes when I get hyper focused, I am one of the best organizers, schedulers, detailers. I can knock it out of the park. When I have plenty of space and time to really sit down and think through now, I don't know if everyone's like that way. I know I bring in a lot of type one and three in that space.

Leslie 1:22:17

Ooh, and maybe six to the healthy side of six, right. And being prepared and planning. Yeah.

Beth 1:22:23

Yeah. And so I and my eight, if I, if it's plowing a path for my team, I can sit down and get it done. So a lot of those aspects can come into play, but man, if that's not there, like I said, it is just this overwhelmed whiteboard and it's just, it feels like chaos and too much. And then I just want to shut down. Or the emotional irregulation where I'm just like you know, so anyway, just letting everyone know a little, a little inside look into your Enneagram coaches life. And my son's probably like, yep, I see that quite often. Well,

Leslie 1:22:55

there's this term that I'll use and Nate's familiar with it too, is procrastivity. And so I think this is something that threes can do. And I think I, I know I do it where it's like, I'm procrastinating. But I'm also doing something. So it's that doing repressed, doing dominant thing that I'm that and it may be not the thing that I need to be doing, but I'm doing that thing. And it could be for the, you know, avoidance, that type of thing too. So percussivity is a real thing as well, but from the, from the healthy side, Oh, the other overwhelmed thing I wanted to touch on too, is because we can, we see all these perspectives. And I think that's another reason why making decisions can be hard. And people pleasing can be easy is because we just, that's our pattern recognition, right? Like we see those perspectives and it's, you know, it's intuitive for us, which is great. It's a gift. And that's also can take us to the healthy aspects. And we can lean into our ADHD and it can support our social skills because we are picking up on those things. And we have great perspective and metacognition where we can see a big picture especially moving into that three space two and achieving. And we have great working memory for the people we care about. And And we have consideration, like deep consideration for others. But we have to have to remember to have consideration for ourselves and, and make sure we're not, we aren't overlooking ourselves as well. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we're less likely to be impulsive. Yeah. I would like to think on that. Yeah.

Nate 1:24:35

Yeah. I think it's maybe more so like where the impulsivity shows up.

Beth 1:24:40

That's what I was gonna say. I can be super people

Nate 1:24:43

please. Or impulsive to run to the slothfulness kind

Beth 1:24:48

of stuff. Oh, I'm super impulsive when I know what other people want or what's gonna make them happy. like, I'm like jumping all over that. Like, oh, that's easy. I can do that. Yeah, sure, no problem. But then when it's like, well, what is your hobby, Beth? I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. What do you want my hobby to be?

Leslie 1:25:06

I had that conversation with my husband a long time ago. He's like, you need a hobby. I'm like. Oh, no. That's a pressure. Like I can't find him. It was horrible. He's looking at me because he's an eight and he has a bajillion hobbies. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. I'm just going to sit here and do nothing.

Nate 1:25:23

Yeah. I mean, the other night, mom, you were like, man, I need a hobby. What should I do for a hobby? And I was like,

Beth 1:25:31

You stay out. My hobby has been the Enneagram and it's like, okay, I need something outside of the Enneagram because that's going to burn me out. You know, if I am just constantly working on the business and the Enneagram. So yes, I said that. And then you were, you were like,

Nate 1:25:47

Yeah. And I was like, you spend hours on AI software, just. Tinkering around. And yeah, sometimes it's for work, but you just really enjoy it and you love learning about it and it really helps you and you're thinking for your ADHD as well. And you're

Leslie 1:26:04

like, and it's novel too. It's a little new out there and supportive.

Beth 1:26:10

It is. And it really helps kind of bring to the forefront for me. What I'm interested in, like, you know, all because in growing up with a reading disability, I'm not the greatest at writing and grammar and all that stuff. So I can kind of at nines, as you were saying, with our communication style, we kind of meander in our talk style. And so we can kind of say a little too much. And so I'll write something in there and I'll ask it to rewrite it in whatever. Tone that I wanted to write in, but like, can you rewrite this, you know, email or this note or, and like, it's like, oh yeah, that's exactly what I was, you know, trying to say, but I said it in a hundred words when you just said it in 30, you know, or something. Exactly. It's like, oh, that's, that's how someone could have said it in 30 words instead Yeah. And so, yeah, it is really intriguing, but I do find it, like you said, novel and it, it also is. And so yeah, it is kind of, and when he said that, because, you know, people will say, oh, we'll pick up knitting or this. And I'm like, I know people really love those things, but that's just not my, my thing. And I couldn't think of anything that I would be interested in once he said that he's like, but mom, you do this said thing, you know, I'm like, you're right. Like I could, I was like, you mean I could, Do that like just for fun, you know, that would be great for myself. Yeah. So it's interesting how as nines, we just are really blind to our own selves because we've been trained since childhood to focus on others. And what does that even, what does that even mean to focus on ourselves? And therefore. Yeah. I can be motivated. So if we're talking to ADHD, I can be motivated when someone else asks me to do something and I'm accommodating to other people, that gets me very motivated quickly, but that doesn't mean it's actually good for me. And so, but then when someone says, well, what, what is good or right for you, Beth? And I'm like, Oh gosh, please don't ask me that question, but that's where I need to grow. That's what I need to focus in on. One is a nine, but then also as a person who has ADHD most likely we'll find out here soon. And yeah. And that's an

Leslie 1:28:18

externalizing that too. Like if it's for nine and two, it's like, what would you say that? What, how would you, you know, have self care for as a nine? Well, that may be again, perfect or pressure. And you know, it's difficult to come up with something, but what would you tell a friend?

Beth 1:28:32

Exactly what Jeff does that I'm like, Oh, well, you know, exactly.

Leslie 1:28:37

So if we can like, like have that space of what would I tell a friend who, who needs X, Y, Z or wants X, Y, Z, then I can write it out or whatever that modality is for me. And then I can flip it back. To myself,

Beth 1:28:50

right? Yeah. That's such a great tool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's really, it's coaching yourself. And I think any great coach, whether it's just an Enneagram coach or an ADHD coach or a combined, like you guys who do it, do both. That is what we're trying to do is we're helping others. To learn to coach themselves through the things that they struggle with. And so, yeah, so if, if a nine is so good at listening to others and being receptive to others and then giving them direction and advice and wisdom, then why not use that for ourselves as well and turn it around? I love it. Yeah. Well guys, this has

Leslie 1:29:31

been so spontaneous and zesty. And

Beth 1:29:37

I know there are so many people with light bulbs going off and insights, whether it's themselves or the loved ones that they have in their life. And they can see how having a certified ADHD coach who's also certified in the ideogram could be really beneficial again for them or their loved one. And so with that, can you guys tell people where they can find you and your services, information that they can get in touch with you?

Leslie 1:30:06

Yeah, Nate, you want to go and I'll follow

Nate 1:30:08

you. Yeah. So, you can go to my website, natemccordcoaching. com. Both Leslie and I are kind of primarily focusing on the family and on kids. For me, I don't necessarily have a specific age range. But I've done college ministry before, and so that, you know, probably is As as of now, maybe more of where you know, I might have more experience in but yeah, we just really love helping to work with the parents and their kid. to understand their unique brain wiring, realize that the kid is starting from a position of using their non dominant hand and starting from that new perspective, building the structure. And so if you go to my website, namecourtcushion. com you can just. Click the learn more link and it will take you to my scheduling and you can sign up for a free 30 minute discovery call where we just talk about how I can really serve you and help really make it customizable to what your needs and your family's needs are. Wow.

Beth 1:31:28

Thanks, Nate. Yeah. And Leslie,

Leslie 1:31:30

how about you? My website is leslierobbinscoaching. com and I also have a tab there where you can book a discovery call or exploration call as well and that's free. We offer that and love to hear from you and hear your story. I love working with high schoolers, college students Really love working with parents and really help educating and helping them understand it and then coaching them. To come alongside their, their their child or their student. And I love working with moms with ADHD too. That's kind of become a, not a new passion, but I'm really recognizing that's where a space I love to be in as well. And I'm doing some fun things too right now where I'm working with students and discovering their character strengths. And it's a tool that I use and it's a launch pad from. from working with strengths. And so, some of my clients in this area do not have ADHD and some do, and it doesn't matter if, you know, if there's a diagnosis or not. But that has been really fulfilling to me because it fills my cup. Because they're discovering who they are. And I especially love doing this with high school students. Yeah. Launching into college because who, who knows who they are when, before they go to bringing the Enneagram and bringing the character strengths and then if there is an ADHD there helping them understand that too is it's just very fulfilling and I love it so much.

Nate 1:32:58

Yeah. Yes. That's good. Please don't feel the need to have a diagnosis before you meet with us. It's okay. Yeah. We'd still love to work with you from where you're at.

Leslie 1:33:10

Yeah. Yeah. Meeting you where you are, whether you have traits or a diagnosis, we can, we can do it. Yeah.

Beth 1:33:16

Which is great. And that's, what's so beautiful. Cause you guys can take them through a wide spectrum of skill sets that you guys have learned through, whether it's Enneagram coaching, ADHD coaching, or the combination of both, which everyone, you know, could really benefit from. So guys, you've been so amazing. I've learned so much. Well today, but just so much in general from what you guys are learning. And I just feel like it is so needed in our community because a lot of people are learning. They have ADHD or they have tendencies towards it. And coaching is really where it's at, you know, to have someone come alongside you and support you is so beneficial. So Nate at Nate McCord, coaching. com and Leslie Robbins, coaching. com. Thank you so much for being with us today. And

Leslie 1:34:02

that's Robbins with two Bs. Sometimes

Beth 1:34:04

like, yes. Oh,

Leslie 1:34:08

I enjoyed it so much.

Beth 1:34:10

Thank you. Well, I hope you guys found that conversation very fascinating because I know I did. And I hope that if you or a loved one has ADHD, that you can see that there's not only great hope, but that they've got some superpowers there. And there's hope through coaching that are specifically designed for them. And so again, if you're interested in grabbing a coach that's certified in both A DHD and the Enneagram, then you can go to nate McCord coaching.com or leslie robbins coaching.com, and that's with two Bs and her name Robbins. And both of them can really facilitate and help you or your loved ones to grow. But remember. The Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder. It's the gospel that transforms us. I'll see you guys on the next episode.