Beth 1:11

Hey friend, welcome to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I'm Beth McCord, your Enneagram coach. And here at YEC, we are passionate about unlocking the transformative power of the Enneagram from a Christian perspective to enrich your life and your relationships. And we do this by providing engaging podcast, insightful books. We have dynamic courses and all of that can be found at your Enneagram coach. com. Now with these tools, you're going to be provided the resources you need for that real and lasting growth that you're looking for. But we also train exceptional Enneagram coaches, and they're equipped to help guide you on your Own personal journey for your Enneagram type. You can find your coach at my Enneagram coach. com. But some of you, I know you, you can't help, but talk about the Enneagram to others. Well, you might be an excellent Enneagram coach. And if that's you and you're wondering, should you take a look at it? I say, yes.

The Journey of Becoming an Enneagram Coach

Beth 2:14

So get our free mini course just to get a taste for what it's like. And you can get that at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash. Mini course. In today's episode, we are gonna give you an exclusive peek into a real coaching session. Yep. This is gonna be so fun. Now we're gonna do this for all nine types, and we're gonna start with my type, the type nine. Now you can either listen to it on your podcast or you can go to our YouTube channel at your Enneagram coach and actually watch the coaching session now. I know most of you are out there learning about the Enneagram from books and blogs, podcasts, and all sorts of things, which is great, but there's something different and unique about a real coaching session. And so I thought it was about time for you guys to experience that with me. Put a call out to see who would volunteer to be on a podcast and do a real coaching session. Got a really great response. It was hard to like pare it down to just nine people, but I did. And so over the next nine weeks, you're going to sit on a coaching session with each and every type.

The Role of an Enneagram Coach

Beth 3:27

And what you're going to experience in each of these episodes is exactly how I train our Enneagram coaches in our become an Enneagram coach course, which is actually open for registration right now this week. What I do is I help coaches to understand the Enneagram, then to understand how to coach with the Enneagram and then how to build their own coaching practices. So what you're going to see is how I help the coaches not only help their clients to discover their main Enneagram type and discover the Enneagram, but then to explore their Enneagram type. And that's what we're going to be doing today.

The Coaching Process and Guide Sheets

Beth 4:04

So I help our coaches to take each client through the first five coaching sessions with guide sheets. These guide sheets are tailored for each Enneagram type. And over the course of those five sessions. Each Enneagram type are going to be able to explore their type and a different elements of their type so that they can use that in their real life circumstances to actually grow. In fact, what we see is that people have accelerated transformation when they have an Enneagram coach and they use these guide sheets. It is super powerful. Now, I would love for you to hear. all five sessions for each Enneagram type, but that could take us a really long time. So what we're going to do is take you through the first guide sheet, which is the first session of all nine types. So stick around for this nine week series and explore with me what a real coaching session

Introduction to the Coaching Session

Beth 5:02

is like. So with that, let me give you a little background information on who I'm going to be coaching today. Now, totally got permission from her and all of the other types to be on this podcast. Today is Jillian Carlson. She's a type nine and she has been deeply involved in ministry as a pastor who serves women's and marriage ministries alongside with her husband. And she thrives on helping others to grow in their faith and self understanding. But she also is super busy because she homeschools her three daughters now. She found the Enneagram in 2018 and it helped her immensely to grow personally and to give her insights on others as well And she loves to pass on the Enneagram knowledge with other people and not only that, she holds her master's in practical ministry. So with that, join me in this coaching experience. So, uh,

The Coaching Session Begins

Beth 6:01

Julianne, thank you so much for. Just participating today and letting me walk you through the first coaching session with one of the first guide sheets. And so as we walk into this coaching session, this is all about you exploring you and us nines that in itself can be kind of tricky, right? Like we have. This internal fog and it's like, I don't, I don't know where I'm going. Well, so what we're going to do is we're going to walk through a guide sheet and the guide sheets really help us to explore and unpack our personality type in bite size lessons. But. Anyone could read about their Enneagram type. So it's not about just reading this information, but it's truly exploring and getting to know yourself. And what we need to do is basically in order for you to connect all the dots, we have to start collecting the dots, right? So we're going to start collecting these dots, but as we do, I want you to start putting them together and What that looks like is bringing up any aha moments, uh, stories that correlate with something that you learned about. Maybe you have a question about something that you just heard like, huh, wait. Okay. I have a question about that. Um, whatever comes to mind, not only is like acceptable and fine, it's actually needed. And the more you engage with the information and you just talk and you explore and you have aha moments, what's happening is you're creating new neural pathways in your mind. That later you'll be able to come back to these aha moments and go, Oh yeah, that's why I do that one thing. And the goal of coaching isn't just to know the information. It's truly to use it in your everyday life. So You and I are both nines. And so we tend to kind of steer off and fall into the same kind of pitfalls. And so what I'm wanting to do is to help you, to like guide you into putting down a rumble strip. Okay. So rumble strip is that thing on the side of the highway that when you're, um, you're not paying attention or you're falling asleep at the wheel, that thing will vibrate and wake you up like, Hey, You're going to go off the road if you don't get back on the right path. So we want to set up these rumble strips, these alert systems to let you know, yeah, that might feel natural, normal to, to have that strategy or to, to have that behavior thought or feeling, but it's actually not the best for us. So here is a better path. Now, usually the better path and the healthier path is the harder path. So it's not always fun and easy, but the more we do it, the more it becomes natural. And we, we see the end results, you know, day after day, week after week. And we actually go there more often. And so we're going to explore. Again, a little bit more of who you are and why you do what you do, but then also set up those rumble strips. The more you can have aha moments and start to engage with the material as, Oh yeah, I used to do that, but now I can see if I were to have done this, that would have been better. And when I say this, a lot of people think they'll think of what other types might do, or maybe what a book said to do, or a pastor said to do. And not that any of the, that general good information is wrong or bad, but it may not be specific. To you as an Enneagram type nine. And so a lot of times we put expectations on ourselves or we let others put expectations or goals or demands or standards that really aren't a good fit for our personality type. So as a coach, I'm going to help you like unpack some of your stories, some of your insights, some of your struggles. The whole point is to find that healthiest path for you as a type nine. Does that sound good? Yes. Okay. So what we're going to do is we're going to go through these guide sheets. And, um, now do you want to read, um, the material or would you like me to read? Um, I can read it. Okay, great. So I'm going to put the first part up. And so what I want you to do, so the first part, Is just five simple words and it kind of goes from healthy to less healthy, but which one or ones grab your attention and why? So you can go ahead and read those. Um, the

Jillan 10:43

peaceful mediator, thoughtful, reassuring, receptive, accommodating. And resign. Um, I, the one, I guess one thing that stands out to me is reassuring. I love that word. Um, I love, um, seeing, being able to see myself that way as somebody that is reassuring and I could see, um, those as those times in my life, life when I, I am that person. I think that's pretty natural and easy for me to do. Um, and as, but as I read those, I also like that resigned. I can also see how, when I get into the middle of Uh, maybe like a confrontation, or like with my, or just, um, argument with my husband, or something like that. A lot of times, rather than, um, wanting to push through that, I'm just like, fine, we don't have to, we don't have to do it, we don't have to worry about that, just never mind. And, um, I've never, I've never really Focus on that word. But those are the things that I thought of when I

Beth 11:59

reread that. Yeah, I love that. And those are great words. And again, I'm going to resonate a lot with you because I'm a type nine as well. So, um, but reassuring. I think that's a really great word and the resign for us to kind of hold on to as we go through the guide sheet, because obviously those stood out the most for you. Um, and then as we go through, This particular guide sheet. Is there something currently in your life that you would like us to further unpack, explore, to get insights on? Is there something someplace or something that you're stuck on that you'd like me to know about?

Jillan 12:37

Yeah, one of the things that I really feel like I'm struggling with right now is, um, I get to this spot in life where, um, I feel like, uh, you know, it's directing me in a certain, I feel like I'm pushing open doors for a certain path and I'm excited about it. And, and then I feel like, um, it's not even this conscious thing that I do, but like subconsciously I just become overwhelmed. I start to question like, am I really the best person to do this? What, what am I thinking? Why would somebody use me? Um, and then I, and I don't. And I just subconsciously even, I really feel like it's a subconscious thing, like I stop, I'll just stop like right in the middle of whatever it is that I'm pursuing. And, um, you know, we've talked about imposter syndrome, I've heard that term, and I feel like I can get caught up into that and just learning how to push through that is something that I really feel challenged to

Beth 13:44

be doing right now. Yeah. Is there something in particular in your life that you see this happening?

Jillan 13:53

Um, well, I mean, one really good example is I did, um, I have been doing a podcast with, um, my daughter and one of my daughter's friends and we, we recorded two seasons. Since put out the first season and, uh, I mean, it's all recorded and I have two sessions that I literally just have not put out there and I think I just started overthinking it and, and it wasn't an intentional. I don't want to put that out there. It was like, I kept forgetting about it. I literally kept forgetting, keep forgetting. About it. And, um, I even have the material. So it seems

Beth 14:35

good. Yeah, well, that will be a great example to kind of explore this, um, kind of conundrum or issue that you keep getting stuck on as we look through and explore your type. So let's kind of keep that just in mind. You know, in the back of our mind as we go through the guide sheet. So what we're going to look at now on the front side of the guide sheet is the core motivations and the core motivations are literally the driving force behind why you think, feel, and behave. In particular ways as a type nine. So it's really the lens that you see, interpret and then react to life circumstances or relationships. Um, and so you have a core fear. This is what you're trying to prevent from happening. You have a core desire. The thing that you Feel will fully satisfy you. You have a core weakness. This is your Achilles heel, the, um, you're stumbling block. This is a thing that, you know, is constantly tripping you up all the time. And then you have a core longing. This is the message your heart longs to hear and experience. So for you as a nine, um, the core fear is being in conflict, tension. Um, having any kind of discord with people being shut out, overlooked, and losing connection with others. And then I'll go through all of them, and then I want to see how you can thread these through even that example, um, because I think by threading it through the example, it will all come to life, like, oh my gosh, I can totally see this. Okay, so then the core desire of the nine is to be, to have inner stability. And peace of mind, but the core weakness is sloth. Now sloth, uh, for the nine is not a physical laziness though, when we're not at our best, we can really enjoy our cozy comforts. But what it's really meaning here is an inner slothfulness and inner not knowing. And so the, how we kind of describe it is that you're remaining in an idealistic. Um, an unrealistic world to keep the peace remaining easygoing and not to be disturbed by your anger. So you fall asleep to your passions, abilities, desires, needs, and worth by merging with others. So we go along to get along. It feels so much easier to focus on, you know, others desires and hopes and dreams and just make everyone else happy. Seems so much easier than exploring our own world because we have this internal fog times. It's like so thick, it's just exhausting, you know? So like, I always tell people, you know, think of a nine, you and a nine are standing together. Okay. And you're going to walk down the street, you know, a couple of hundred yards to let's say Walgreens. Well, if it's like. really foggy. You're not going to run there. You're not gonna even walk fast there. You're going to take your time because you can't hardly see anything in front of you. So you have to be mindful and take your time. Well, maybe the person next to you, for some reason, they can see very clearly. And so they're like, why are you so slow? Like, hurry up. And you're like, well, how do you not understand this? Right. And so that's what I want. Others to understand about the nine is that there's this internal fog and it's not like we can just quickly lift the fog and figure it out. So it takes time and we need patience, not from, uh, not just from others, but also patients with ourselves. Um, but it's so worth it. So. That is kind of the slothfulness. It's exhausting to find out more about ourselves, but it also correlates with our false interpretive message that we got as a child is that don't assert yourself. Um, your voice, your presence doesn't matter. That's kind of this ground record player that's constantly playing. If we believe in that false message, even for a moment, well, of course we're going to kind of shut it all down and allow that fog to get really thick and just, you know, not focus on what we need. We're just going to focus on what everyone else needs because then we can hopefully create that, um, inner stability and peaceful and harmonious connection with others. So that's kind of an adjust those three, but your core longing, the message, your heart longs to hear and experience is that your presence matters. So with those, what really stood out and popped up for you the most, like what got your heart kind of really like, Oh my gosh, that just hits so close to home.

Jillan 19:14

Well, you know, for a long time, that core longing was something that really stood out to me. That was something that it didn't make sense to me when I first read it. Um, but, um, I have really seen how like a comment that somebody will make will make me feel like. Either my presence does matter or my presence doesn't matter and like that has been something that I focused on for a long time and it really, that helped me to understand how that affects me, you know, um, but I would say, um, in terms of reading through these right now, um, um, you know, that core weakness, um, you Going back to like the, um, podcast and those types of things just kinda shutting down. I do think that, um, I probably go to that, you know, I idealistic thing and um, um, I don't, and I mean somewhat going back to that core longing, like, do, does it really matter if I do that? Will it really matter? Will anybody really care if I do? Um. It's no big, it's no big deal if I don't, um, and then even honestly, some of that core desire kind of comes in there as well of what if I say something and somebody questions it, um, and I'm not going to have, uh, can I defend it? Do I know enough to defend it? Can I, and is it going to mess up my peace of mind? So I, I see how, um,

Beth 20:53

I, and it might cause what tension or conflict, right? Like the, the core fear, you know, it's like, Oh, but, and what if I lose connection with people? Cause I said something that rubbed them wrong and, you know, it all really correlates. And so I love that you're piecing this all together because I wanted to ask you a question, a follow up question. And so. You were able to get there, which I'm so excited. So you had said earlier that it's, it's, uh, it's not conscious that you forget and that you don't remember to put it on. And though as a fellow nine, I totally understand what you're saying, but also as a coach, I want to press in a little bit and say, is it that you. Have other false beliefs that you're listening to, which, which then shuts you down to forget, you know, with quotes around that to forget Mm-Hmm. to do the very thing that either you were called to do, you had wanted to do, you were motivated to do, but these false messages have kind of won the day in the moment. Does that make sense? Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm.

Jillan 22:08

Um, yeah, I, I can't think of anything specific in that. In regard to this, but, um, absolutely, I could see that just, you know, I mean, it could be honestly anything that somebody could just casually say something that would just. Cause me to, to question and wonder, am I doing the right, am I doing the right thing? Should I be doing that?

Beth 22:34

Yeah. And that false childhood message that says, don't assert yourself. So like we're literally starting at a deficit, right? We have this message inside us that's like, well, don't assert yourself like that's selfish or you're promoting yourself. Or why would you get, get out there in front of everyone? Um, yeah. People are going to think that you just care about being, let's say in the limelight or promoting yourself. I mean, whatever it is, we're like, Oh, I can't do that. I'm going to then shrink back and withhold myself unless, and this is important for the dines in our minds. We're thinking unless someone sees a quality, a gift, a talent, and they say, Hey, we want you. To assert yourself. We need this from you. Yeah. And the nine's like, Oh, sure. All day, every day. Right.

Jillan 23:29

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I, one of my best friends is an eight and, um, and she, there's so many things that I have, I've talked about that I wouldn't have done in life if it were not for her saying, do you want to do this? I think you could do this. And, um, yeah, I definitely, I, I do so much better when I have, when I feel like I have somebody cheering me on saying, you can do this, just, I mean, honestly, just that saying you can do this makes me, yeah, you're right, I can

Beth 24:07

do this. Yeah. And here's. And we'll get on to the rest of the other guide sheet and we'll, we'll, we'll kind of pull all of this together, but I want to go back to those two words that stood out to you the most, and that was reassuring and resigned. And when we think about, let's say the podcast, cause you had been motivated. I mean, you were so motivated. You guys got it all done. You know, it's there. And I wonder if possibly. The false messages of, well, I shouldn't assert myself. Who am I like, will anyone care? What does it matter? I don't see anyone like saying, Hey, Joanne, you should put that podcast out again, and so I'm kind of testing the waters to see if anyone's going to draw me out and if they don't, all right, I'll just kind of hide in the background. So that's the resign part, but you're, what you're saying is the reassuring, even if it's just small, it can light a match and really ignite the passion within you again to actually move forward. Is that right? So here's the question. You are naturally really gifted and love to reassure others. Is that right? What about to yourself? Do you do that much? I think I'm very good to that to

Jillan 25:45

myself. I don't believe myself. I guess I don't believe my reassurance to

Beth 25:51

myself. Yeah, why, why, why

Jillan 25:54

is that? I, I just, I just think somebody else could probably do it better than me. All those kinds of thoughts. Like, why would I be

Beth 26:15

the best person? Yeah, and it kind of almost feels, um, like it would be more true if someone else said it. Would that be right? Mm

Jillan 26:29

hmm.

Beth 26:30

Yeah. Mm hmm. So, I'm just going to pause on that and we'll come, we'll kind of swing back to the reassuring part, but just keep all that we've kind of talked about so far. Kind of in the back of your mind, and we're going to go into the next part of the guide sheet, and this is going to unpack more of an overview of your type. And so why don't we, um, you go ahead and read, uh, the first maybe three paragraphs, and then we'll pause and see if anything really stood out from those, and then we'll read, um, the last paragraphs. 3 paragraphs. Does that sound good?

Jillan 27:06

Okay. Yeah. Um, you are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and patient. You long for harmony with others and in your environment. Able to see all points of view, you are a natural peacemaker, an agent of reconciliation, reconciliation, reconciliation. Who brings a sense of calm and empathy wherever you go. Seemingly relaxed on the outside, you struggle internally in a world rife with conflicts that threaten the comfort you crave. Believing it is your responsibility to ensure that people experience peace, respect, and are heard. You withdraw or numb your feelings, dreams, and desires. You go along to get along, to avoid the internal or external conflict you feel. When trying to satisfy your longing for harmony, connection, and comfort apart from Christ, You can become conflict avoidant, indecisive, passive, quickly overwhelmed, and numb to your

Beth 28:06

life. So what stood out the most from that? And then also, how does it correlate with the struggle with the podcast? Um,

Jillan 28:19

I, I do see myself, I mean, honestly, I've had people talk about me being a peacemaker that don't know anything about the Enneagram. Um, but, you know, I, I've had it years, years and years before I ever even knew any of this kind of stuff. Um, so I know that that's a part of who I am, and I think as I've gotten older, My kids are out of my house, which is just me and my husband. And I have to focus on myself a lot more now. Um, I am, I mean, not nobody, you know what

Beth 29:00

I

Jillan 29:02

mean? I am seeing how, uh, that numbing my feelings, my dreams and desires. And so, I mean, like, I think that's exactly. Um, what I have been doing with that podcast, like that, and with, you know, going further with the Enneagram, like this is something that, um, I mean, it's literally like changed my life. It helped me, um, grow in ways that I didn't think I could grow, honestly. Um, and, um, and people that I have talked with about it and seen lights go on for them, it's just. So exciting, um, and to know that you're helping people, um, grow and change and be more who God's called them to be. But, um, I started doubting like, like, I mean, Beth does a great job at this. Why do I have to do it? You know, why should I do it actually? Not even a half do, but why, why would somebody want to talk to me versus talk to that, um, in, in that kind of feeling, um, and maybe, and even saying maybe this really isn't. My dream. Maybe this really isn't what that's calling me to do. Um, I mean, I feel like I'm, you know, I'm 56 and I'm still kind of like trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up that feeling of those dreams and desires. And I think I get caught up in, like, could this really happen? Is this It's really going to be, maybe it's sort of, maybe I didn't, but I mean,

Beth 30:48

all of those, I have the same things just to let you know the exact

Jillan 30:54

same thing.

Beth 30:56

I know, right. Um, and so your story really is my story. And I have, not only, you know, I've had some like really big aha moments in my life. Like you have, um, But I'm gonna tell you. And this is the honest truth every day that I get on like Instagram or do this podcast or write material, whatever, every single time I'm like, no, no one really cares. Like, why am I doing this? I don't like this. It doesn't really matter. You know, every single time. And so. I say that as an encouragement and an acknowledgement and empathy that you're not alone and that it is really hard and it's scary. Um, but what I would, let's keep moving on this, but what I'd love for you to think about as we go through this last part is that reassuring part that I talked about. Um, earlier. And so let's move through this part and then we'll pick that back up. Um, when we're done. Does that sound good?

Jillan 32:07

Um, internally, you struggle to believe that your voice and opinions matter and become self forgetting and self belittling. Focusing too much on others, you lose your identity, merging with the thoughts, feelings, and agendas of others to achieve a false harmony. You fall asleep to yourself, yet often have an internal frustration about being overlooked by others. You attempt for harmony, your attempt for harmony eventually backfires when the people around you get frustrated by your passivity, stubbornness, unwillingness to be bothered, emotional unavailability. And passive aggressive responses.

Beth 32:49

What? Us?

Jillan 32:53

Don't like that paragraph. I know. This results in the conflict you desperately want to avoid. However, when your heart is in line with the gospel, you come awake to your convictions. Feelings and passion. You believe that you matter and can make a difference in this world. Realizing that true peace comes from entering into conflict, not avoiding it. You genuinely engage with people and your own life. You bridge differences, bring people together, and it's achieved through harmony.

Beth 33:32

Okay. So what we've seen in this little segment is that whole belief system. I don't matter. My opinions don't matter. No one really cares. Cause if they did, they would really be like, Hey, come out, you know, like, tell us, like, show us your gifts and talents. Like we need them. And so, because we don't think people are doing that, or at least to the degree that we would then move forward, we hide. Um, and, but what I'm curious about is you are so naturally good at being reassuring to be supportive, warm, kind, nine, see all the perspectives of all nine types with great ease. So they're empathetic. They. Are able to come alongside others that are struggling or doing really well and champion them. But again, the question is, why are we not doing it for ourselves? So let's go back to the podcast and not getting those others uploaded. You unconsciously aren't doing it, but there's a lot more going on under the hood, right? That we're now unpacking and. And that one paragraph, it says you fall asleep to yourself, yet often you have internal frustration about being overlooked by others. And that kind of goes back to, I wish someone would draw me out, see my gifts and say something about it. When has in your life that happened that it really meant a lot to you that it really moved you forward in something that either you were stuck in or. You weren't motivated in, but man, it really got you propelled forward.

Jillan 35:30

I mean, I have had that a lot of times in my life, I guess. I'm a part of a team right now, one of the more recent ones. I'm part of a team at our church right now, and, um, somebody on the team really encouraged me that, you know, like, I love your opinion. You have good thoughts. We need to hear more from you. And, um, And just hearing that, uh, it, it, just those words make it, me feel like, okay, I can, I should give my opinion that, that my opinion does matter. Um, and, uh, I, um, yeah, it doesn't take a lot, but it takes genuine encouragement. And then I'm like, okay, if you said I can do it, I can do it.

Beth 36:27

Yeah. And the interesting thing is, is that do you. Deep down past all of the false messages, but your real healthy, authentic self, right? Mm-Hmm. do you really believe that you can do it?

Jillan 36:44

If I get way deep down there, I mean, I think, like my gut reaction is, I think I can, but I don't know if I really, but I don't know. That's, you know, that's my at the beginning. You, I mean, I have, I have the skills, I have the abilities, I have the understanding, I have the mm-Hmm. Um, I know that I do know that

Beth 37:09

and at the beginning you said reassuring is just natural. It just, it flows out of you. It's not even like you're having to try to be reassuring. It just is you, right? Like that is just who you are. And so we want to look at. Moving forward in the things we feel stuck in and one, we want to shape it in a way that fits our personality type well, so that we don't get as stuck, you know, because if we're trying to make it like someone else, that's not us or follow their lead or what they say, that's just going to trip us up. So. If you can live in the lane where you're going to be able to give to others, reassurance. And of course, there's so much more than that. We're just bringing that one word up because you said it earlier. But if you live in that lane of reassurance, you are going to just be living a life that's just so natural and overflowing. And people are going to gravitate towards that. And they're thirsty. Our world is thirsty for reassurance, right? They're thirsty for affirmation and understanding. And you can give that. And that's what your friend was saying.

The Journey to Becoming an Enneagram Coach

Beth 38:20

Um, but here's The thing, and I'm going to share with you ignited me to actually start your Enneagram coach. I don't know if you know the story, but I started learning the Enneagram in 2001. Okay. I didn't start your Enneagram coach until 2016. Pretty large gap. And I really, not only did I hide a lot of those years as I was learning and growing and man, I, I really knew the Enneagram. I had studied so much. But when people started asking for us to You know, help, you know, like their, their dentist team or their school, uh, teachers no more, I didn't present it. I was like, Jeff,

Overcoming Self-Doubt and Embracing Your Voice

Beth 39:02

you're the pastor. They're going to want to hear from you because I didn't think my voice and my presence would matter. So it was basically like the wizard of Oz. And I'm literally like behind the screen, pulling the little levers, telling Jeff, say this or say that, like, you know, putting a slide deck together so that, you know, he can kind of present. And he, I mean, you know, he'd been learning the Enneagram along with me, but he wasn't as passionate as I was. So then all of a sudden people are like coming to him for the information and I'm feeling so overlooked and angry. Well, one time. I was working alongside someone for about a year and was really trying to get this person to like get into the Enneagram. Um, but of course if they kind of said no or didn't look interested, of course, I'm not going to insert myself at what would a night? What? So, so I didn't.

The Turning Point: Realizing Self-Worth

Beth 39:50

And And they were someone that could really kind of help me launch my coach. And at this time, this was in 2000, late 2015 at this time, I'd already formulated my idea of an Enneagram coach. Cause no one was really Enneagram coaching out there. And I was like, Oh, I'd love to do this like thing. And she could have helped me kind of. Get going. Cause that was her realm or field and she had contacts. So then I go home and on Instagram I'm, I'm thumbing through, you know, and I see this picture of an Enneagram book and she's in the same person. It was like, I can't wait to learn about the Enneagram. My friend told me about this and, you know, she's going on and on. And I'm like, are you serious? So, the gut reaction of the nine, a visceral reaction, I stood up and I literally stormed out of the house. And I passed Jeff, I grabbed my keys and he looked at me like, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, that just, the volcano is going to erupt and no one can be around me. Right? Like you got that? Yeah. And so he, he sees me pass it like, he's kind of like what's going on. And I'm like, just look at Instagram. And I leave the house, I get in my car and I start driving and I am like screaming. And I, and I let myself scream because I knew the Enneagram well enough to know I needed to feel these really sorrowful feelings. I had been totally overlooked. This person knew I knew the Enneagram well. And though I was kind of a mouse, I was just looking and longing for her to. Pull me out and say, Oh my gosh, I see this gift in you. You should do this. You would be amazing. Right? I'm waiting for her to validate me. So I'm in the car and I'm feeling overlooked and I'm yelling. And about 15 minutes later, I turn around and I hear this kind, soft voice. Say, why are you so angry? And I, I was totally sassy with God. I was like, are you kidding me? Like, did you not see what just happened? And it was quiet. And calm and loving and still. And then a few seconds later, I heard, no, really, why are you so angry with yourself? And it was clear as day inside me. I heard. I am angry at myself because I overlook myself and what I permit, I promote. And I knew in that moment that if I, I had a choice, I had a choice. I could either keep overlooking myself and train others to overlook me, or I could see what God had already instilled in me and live that out. Not someone else's version. My own version and yeah, it's going to get messy and it's going to upset people and I'm going to not enjoy that conflict intention, but it was doable as possible. So I got home and literally was that night when I got home, I walked in the door. Of course, Jeff was kind of like, you okay, you know, I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm getting my certification and I'm starting my own business and I'm going for it. And I never looked back and I say that only because I 100 percent understand. Where you're at and I'm at that place every day But I've also learned that the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek

Jillan 43:02

Mm hmm.

Beth 43:04

Well, I hope

The Power of Self-Affirmation

Beth 43:06

yeah, my hope is that you will be your biggest champion that you will be your biggest advocate Because that is your natural gift is reassurance that is What you do, and I have to literally get behind myself and gently push and say, you can do it because God has gifted you to do this and your voice and your presence and your thoughts and your opinions and what you have to offer really does matter. Now, I believe all the time. No, no, but I then get to see the outcome

The Struggles of Starting a Podcast

Beth 43:41

later. And so really it's the hardest thing for me to do is to get on the podcast or to get on Instagram. And not everyone says anything all the time. I'm just here at home kind of working by myself most of the time. And every once in a while I hear someone say, Oh my gosh, that meant so much to me. And that really does help. Like you said, but I'm hoping that. As we're talking right now that you will begin to see that it's the overlooking of yourself that. is the biggest harm for us nines. But it's also you champion yourself. You reassuring yourself is what you're actually waiting for. It's not for other people to come and say, you're amazing, you're great. And they'll come, but it's really you. You've been waiting for it. Would you agree? How does that even feel?

Jillan 44:43

Scary.

Beth 44:45

Right? It does. I'm even saying it and I'm like, oh yeah, this is super hard. Like it is. It feels so awkward. It feels selfish or something like arrogant. I don't know. I don't know the wording that just is like, that doesn't feel right. But here's the thing when you do show up. Right. So when you show up and you're reassuring to others and you're comforting, you're compassionate, you're empathetic. You, you see. And experience how much you matter, right? Whether you tell it to yourself, you see it. And so it's those moments that you're going to need to bring back to your mind and like say false messages, you are false. But what's true is that God gifted me in this area and I'm going to live full force in it. And that's going to be super scary. Does that, does that feel right to you? Yeah.

Jillan 45:48

And I do, I mean, I've experienced it. I have experienced it. I mean, I started moving in that podcast in that way because I did feel like that was where I was supposed to be. And I felt like it was a lot of, you

Beth 46:04

know, me. Yeah, so then? What happened?

Jillan 46:09

Yeah, I don't know. I just got overwhelmed by it. I think in a lot of ways, like, what do I put the unit?

Beth 46:17

Yeah. And then what do us minds do when we're overwhelmed? I disconnect. We disengage. We all asleep to ourselves. We, we forget and we'll say we forget. And it is a genuine, in a sense, forgetting, but it's also, it's a defensive mechanism. It's called marketization and we fall asleep to ourselves. And so it's not like we're trying to forget, but that is a strategy because we're afraid that our voice or what we do doesn't matter. And so we won't move forward in fear. Okay. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna go to the backside and we're gonna kind of bring all of this together with. What we call is the Enneagram Paz and for those of you that are not seeing what's on the screen, there are four boxes and there are Enneagram symbols in each box and they're all focused on the type nine and the two lines that come off of nine, um, go towards six and three.

Understanding the Type 9's Enneagram Paths

Beth 47:17

So we're talking about the Enneagram Paz. These are the paths that you take, whether, um, when you're doing well or you're not doing well now. These four boxes represent that because you go to both the healthy and the less healthy of each of the six and the three. So the first box we're looking at is the stress path. And the, the stress path is when a type nine, um, is struggling, you can take on some of the average to the unhealthy characteristics of the type six. So what this is going to look like for you is you're going to find your mind constantly racing, worried and fixated on possible worst case scenarios. You're going to become irritable, defensive and frustrated, and you're going to frantically take care of responsibilities that have been put off for too long. Um, you're gonna like, Oh, I'm just going to get it done, you know, and get a little bit more frantic, you know, whereas normally us minds like to be even keel and easy going when we're under stress, like this. More anxious energy comes out. Does this, when does this happen for you or, or does it, do you see this happening

Jillan 48:23

for you? Yeah. Yeah, I definitely, um, do I good at procrastinating and I get into that stress path a lot of whatever it is. Um, having people over, have a, have something event I'm getting ready for. Uh, like, you know, how long can I wait? Oh, my gosh, I waited too long. I've got to get this done. I definitely do that. And even in the stress, in stress, I can see myself. Um, that getting that worst case scenario. Like I go to all the weird things that generally I don't normally think of. And then I'm like, gosh, what are you, what are you thinking?

Beth 49:07

Yeah. And, you know, sometimes people are like, Whoa, what's going on? You know, like your typical self. And it's like, I'm so stressed, so overwhelmed, you know, and, and we can get. frustrated and irritable. Of course, us nines will never say we're angry. We usually say, Oh, I'm just so frustrated, you know? Um, and because we don't want to be angry because we fear that that will bring up conflict and stuff. Okay. So the next box is the blind spot path. And this is mainly You going from, um, or like not in your healthiest place, taking on some of the average, the unhealthy qualities of type three. Now we'll see in a second type three is actually also your growth path, but when you're not doing as well, you can actually exhibit some of the less healthy parts of three, but usually. Only with your family, maybe a close friend. So the people you let your hair down with right now, what this is going to look like is that you might demonstrate your value and worth by bragging about your accomplishments. You can do busy work to feel productive and distract yourself from the important matters that are maybe over in the wayside that. You're stressed about you just go over here and maybe clean or do something that's more simple and I'm just keeping myself busy and accomplished. Um, and then you can desire to be noticed and affirmed and then easily hurt when others point out a flaw or failure and the whole demonstrate your value and worth. I can look at all that man. That's like, no, I don't ever because I feel so like maybe arrogant for the night. But this is where maybe you've done something really great and no one kind of gave you an attagirl or an award or, you know, just that acknowledgement, you might go home and go, Hey, guess what I did today? So it's not like super boastful. It's just like, Hey, I'd like for someone to know, and I'm not going to tell the whole world. Cause I, as a nine, I just don't do that. So I'm going to tell my safe people now, does this seem true for you?

Jillan 51:07

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Uh, this was like the blind spot box. Blindspot path is one of my favorite paths to talk about with people because I do think it's because you're so It's where you're most comfortable and but blind to your weaknesses, you know, yeah Around the people that you're most comfortable with and stuff. So I think it was such a helpful Learning about that. But yeah, absolutely You know, I can totally come home and be like, that's what I did. You know, that I would never say to anybody else. Right, right. And, um, busy work, yeah, totally, totally just do work to make me feel like I'm getting something done, but not really doing the things that I should. Be doing, um, you know, always desiring to be noticed and affirmed. And then my husband, I mean, he can say something to me that, you know, your, your collar's flipped under and I'm just like, Oh, yeah, I'll go for it, you know,

Beth 52:25

And he's just probably trying to help, you know, like, Oh, yeah.

Jillan 52:29

He's not, he's a five and he's not very tactful sometimes. So it's sometimes the way he says it. But generally the thing that he's saying is like, why is this upsetting me?

Beth 52:42

But the three really fears being exposed. It's all about their image. And so that three part of your heart is coming up and it's like, Oh my gosh. You know,

Jillan 52:51

like, yeah, you can bring that out of me like nobody else.

Beth 52:56

Yeah. Oh, I totally get it. Okay.

Applying the Enneagram Paths to Personal Growth

Beth 52:58

So the thing about the blind spot path is that there are elements and things in it that could be good because the growth path that we'll talk about now is you going to the healthy high side of type three. And so. Your three part of you is amazing, but it's really hard to grow. And so usually this blind spot path is kind of the less healthy, less helpful way of expressing that three part of your heart. But if we're willing to go, um, to the places that that's hard, like growth, you'll actually see the. Good consequences that come from that. So, so for you as a type nine going to the healthy part of three, you're going to take on, or take time to discover your desires, passions, and then invest in yourself, um, through self development. And then you're going to set up goals and actually accomplish those goals. The threes are incredible by setting up a goal that they can achieve. Mind you, they're not just going to set up goals that they're not going to be able to achieve. So you're something you can achieve. And then they work back from that setting up like, okay, well, this is how I'm going to get it accomplished. And so you'll become more like that. Again, you're still nine, nine reigns Supreme, but this part is going to influence you and with your passions and your gifts and your talents, but you're also going to be, you're going to confidently show up to life, assert yourself and bless others with your full presence. This is a place where you're like, I In my gut and in my mind and in my heart, know that God created me for a reason and with a great purpose, and I'm going to live that out. I can't be everything to everyone, which of course nines kind of think we should, and we try, but I'm going to be me. And that's where you have to learn more about yourself as a nine. And again, you have to get through that fog and take some time, be patient and kind, but man, it's so worth it when nine show up, um, and then you're going to speak. Up more and you're going to share your thoughts and your insights. You're going to assert yourself and what, when in your life have you seen that? Uh, part show up and what was the feeling and the outcome of it?

Jillan 55:10

Um, well, I mean, like starting the podcast, honestly, that was kind of, this was like my, okay, I have, I have three, I have access to this. I can do this and kind of set goals and things to get me going on there. So a lot of that was a part of that. Um, seeing that three within me and being, um, being willing to show up confidently, um, and, and know that, you know, I have done the things that I need to do. I know, I know what I'm talking about. Um, and then I think just honestly, as I've gotten, as I am, have gotten older and, um, I am a lot more. And more confident, um, I have, I am a lot more willing to speak up, um, and share my knowledge and insights. Yeah. I, I definitely think I have to know I'm in the right space for that. I'm not super willing to just share my thoughts and insights if I, I'm going to come up against a wall or you want to get if you want to get into an argument with me. I'm not going to share it very much with you because I don't want to get in an argument with you.

Beth 56:22

Right, right. And I, and I think that's totally fine unless it's actually needed, right? Like if someone, but I think us nines. Maybe not all the time, but especially if we lean into our eight, we will show up for those that are being marginalized or harmed. Um, you know, it can really ignite a lot in us to, and we will still be very nine ish, but, um, and so I think it's a, it's, again, we don't have to be all things. To all people, but how can you assert your presence and your voice? Because it will matter and it does matter. Now here's the thing. So, so we have the growth path and we have one more box, and this is the nine moving to the highest, healthiest part of six. Now again, you're still a nine, uh, those core motivations reign supreme, but. The six influences you. So now you're kind of at a healthy nine space. You're also have brought in your healthy three. Well, now you can kind of move into this really healthy six spot. And this is going to look where you're going to become more hardworking, responsible, and you're going to have follow through. You're going to boldly assert yourself and your abilities and benefit others. And then you're going to demonstrate courage by stepping out of your comfort zone into unfamiliar areas and pushing through adversity or difficulties. So let's take these last two boxes and really dissect the podcast, right? It totally, I hope that you're kind of seeing as we've kind of wrapped up this whole guide sheet that you can see how, whether though you didn't know or understand why you couldn't just. Do the podcast. Why can't you just, it's there. It's ready. I just have to push play, but underneath all of that is the message. My presence doesn't matter. My voice doesn't matter. Who really cares? Is it going to matter? Because no one else is saying, Hey, where's your podcast? Like put it out there. Right. And so you just kind of like, well, no, I just forget it's too much as overwhelming. So that's the sloth. That's the not knowing yourself. That's the, uh, I'm going to focus on others and not me right now. Here you are. You've got the growth path and the converging path, and you've experienced them both before. And so with the podcast, a great place, like where would a great place start? With the growth path. And then what is it of the converging path? The six part that you really need to lean into to make this actually happen.

Jillan 58:57

Um, well, follow through. That would be a good one on just, you know, I think, um, getting that, um, re igniting that courage within me that, you know, this is This is what I was supposed to be doing. And, um, you know, I think some of it is going into, okay, what's our next steps? So there's that year of what does that look like right now? Um, but to know that I can, I have. I have the material for the last two things, put it out there, it doesn't matter if there's been a long gap or anything like that, just put it out there, um, and then, um, I think a lot for me, um, is that, um, stepping out of my comfort zone and being willing to assert myself rather than waiting for somebody to say, um, You can do this. Um, um, I had people say I could do it. So I, I don't, I don't need more. And really, you know, I feel like this is, I feel like it is, um, an area that God is calling me to, and am I going to ignore that? Or am I, I'm going to be bold and assert myself and, and say, you know, like, no, I just, I just need to do what God's calling me to do. Yeah.

Beth 1:00:25

And it's not going to be comfortable and it's going to be hard, but who is really good at reassuring? And so you get to be your greatest reassure to yourself and that's going to feel awkward. Don't get me wrong. But the more you do it like, like I do, I kind of envision myself, my kind of mature adult leadership, Beth, coach Beth behind me and just gently pushing me like, no, really you can do this. And here. Are the things that you're good at, I mean, yeah, you're not going to want me to go and do a debate. You're not going to want me to, I would not be a good debater, just saying, but that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to live out my calling and bring my presence. And that's what you're saying is like, no. I do feel called, and I am really gifted at the things I'm going to give myself to. And so who's not gonna be, uh, like how you sh you can and will be your greatest advocate, your greatest supporter, your greatest cheerleader, and again, your greatest reassure and, and reassuring, not just in the positive life, but reassuring. Yes, it's going to be hard. Mm-Hmm, But you can do it. And actually nines are the strongest on the Enneagram. Cause let me say, when we're stubborn, just don't even try, don't even try, but yeah. Right. But why not be stubborn with ourselves at the benefits? Okay. Here's the reason. Okay. When you reassure yourself, it's not for your own self gain though. That will happen, right? It really will bless others. And so when you don't reassure yourself, when you don't move into that three space in the six space, you're actually hindering others from experiencing the gifts that God has given you. And that is the game changer for the nine. Right. It's like, Oh, you mean I'm not getting out there. You mean, it's not arrogant. It's not boastful. It's not. I'm so confident. It's like, no, you're getting out there because you have something that will bless others. And if you don't get out there, you can't bless them. And they will therefore not experience the goodness that you have to offer. And that mind shift Is what can help nines to move forward because they want to do things on the behalf of others and for the good of others. Am I right? Yep. Okay, we have one last thing. To discuss and it's the internal message. So we have this record player in our mind that constantly keeps going in the background and we think it's absolutely real, but it's not. It's going to feel real, but it's not real. Okay. So ours is if everyone. Else around me is good and okay, then I am good and okay. It feels real, right? Like, well, if everyone's fine and happy and everyone's getting along, I know, right. It feels so true. But the sad thing is you and I both know we're both moms. We, I mean, I was a pastor's wife. You're a pastor's wife. Nobody's happy. Right? I mean, to a degree, right? No one's okay. Everyone's suffering. There's, there's always things happening. People are disgruntled. They're whining, they're complaining, they're whatever, then that means us nines can never be okay. And that's really sad. And so I bring this up because as you move forward in this new hard path of going to the three and the six with the healthy nine intact, there are going to be moments that you do Hit the publish the podcast or release the podcast and someone might not agree with what you said and then it's like, oh Someone's not okay I guess I got to shut it down or I guess I can't Be happy with what I produced or I'm gonna have to change myself to accommodate to that person Well, then we would be changed when we do unfortunately change and accommodate change and accommodate all over the place And then we lose ourselves in the process And that in turn keeps us from blessing others. Once again, when do you see this statement? If everyone else around me is good and okay, then I can be good. And okay. Where does that show up the most in your life?

Jillan 1:05:13

Hmm. Probably in my, probably one of the most. Prominent ones I would say would be with family, um, as my kids have, you know, are older and moved out of my house when everybody's coming back together, um, just trying to make sure everyone's happy, um, and good. That can be challenging. That's probably one good place. When I see it more now, um, and I mean, definitely in church life, I can want everybody to have to be happy.

Beth 1:05:57

Yeah. I don't want that. I mean, it's a noble idea and effort, right? But how will we ever know if people are truly happy to satisfied and how is it that our is so dependent on what, on others so called happiness? Um, When that's ultimately not in our control, you know, and so as nines, we're just going to have to be very mindful that we are not God surprise, right? Not God. Um, we can't make everyone happy. Um, we can have joy in life. It doesn't mean we'll always be happy or we're always good and okay, but we can have joy, even when there isn't harmony or there isn't peace or there isn't good connection. That's going to be. Hard, but there can't even be joy in the midst of hardship and sorrow.

The Importance of Self-Reassurance and Final Thoughts

Beth 1:06:58

So I'm hoping that as you move forward from this coaching session, the biggest thing I'm hoping is that whenever you start to feel the need to resign, whenever you feel the need to make sure everyone else is good and okay, whenever you feel that your voice and presence doesn't matter, those are your rumble strips. And before you actually fall into. Common pitfall that you would hear the rumble strip and go, you know what? That's not true. And what's true is that my voice and presence do matter that you are, you're reassured that you help yourself with the truth that God gives you, that what he has instilled in you, how he's created you really, really does matter. And then live that out. And what you'll see is the ripple effect in the lives of others, and it will just be contagious. And you'll keep doing it again and again, again. Now. Don't get me wrong. We keep falling into these common pitfalls, but God's not surprised. In fact, it came to rescue us and to set us free. And so we can own it, acknowledge it, and know that he's going to help us to keep growing. Has this experience through the guide sheet been helpful for you? Yeah.

Jillan 1:08:11

Yeah. That's been really helpful. I'm, I'm excited to apply that reassuring stuff to myself.

Beth 1:08:18

Yeah. Okay. So since you have my email, um, I would love to hear when you do post the podcast and also what it's like to start reassuring yourself. Like, so like maybe like. In a week, what it's like, and maybe in a couple of weeks, like, what is it like to reassure you? Hey, it feels really awkward at first, but then it's like, wait, I'm just reassuring myself with the very things God is reassuring me with. And so I just love to hear like a follow up, you know, how you're doing and, um, you know, how I can spur you on as well, if that's okay. Great. Well, you have a lot of wonderful qualities and. I'm really excited to see you move forward because nines can be some of the most fabulous people, Enneagram coaches. The problem is we don't always show up. And the world really needs us to show up right now because the world's really struggling and suffering. They need the peace and the calmness, the tenderness. And so I hope that you know that and that you reassure yourself enough that you get out there. But it's been an absolute joy having you here today. Thank you for joining us.

Jillan 1:09:37

It's my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

Beth 1:09:39

Well, I hope you guys had such an amazing time listening in on a real coaching session. I'm so thankful that she allowed us to listen in and to really hear what it's like to be coached, but experience such amazing growth. Now I'm eager for you guys to get your. Own coach and have these aha experiences for yourself. And in fact, Jillian Carlson, she isn't certified Enneagram coach with us. You can find her or any of our other certified coaches at my Enneagram coach. com. Now, what I also want you guys to know is that when you go through the coaching sessions, you're going to be able to bring your life experiences, your struggles, where you feel stuck, but then to get the clarity in the insights you need, not what someone else needs, but what you need all from a Christian perspective and the Enneagram. again, you can find your coach at my Enneagram coach. com. Now again, like I said earlier, I know a lot of you love to share the Enneagram. You can't help it. Well, you would be a perfect Enneagram coach and our registration is open right now for become an Enneagram coach this week. So please join us there at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash B E C. If you want to just dip your toes in and see what it's like, we have a free mini course at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course. Well, join us next week as we explore once again, a real coaching experience, but this time with a type eight. And as always remember that the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder because it's the gospel that transforms us. Thanks for joining me and I'll see you next time.