Welcome to the World of Enneagram Coaching

Beth 1:11

So if you ever wondered what a real coaching session is like, well, then stick around because today you're going to experience an actual coaching session with a type six. Yes. You're going to be so amazed at how one Enneagram coaching session can bring astonishing clarity and insights to the individual who's being coached, which can really accelerate their personal growth and have a ripple effect in the lives of others. Well, Hey everyone, I'm Beth McCord, your Enneagram coach, and this is your Enneagram coach, the podcast. And at YEC, we are passionate about unlocking the transformative power of the Enneagram from a Christian perspective to enrich your life and relationships. We do this with engaging podcast, insightful books, and dynamic courses to help you understand yourself on a deeper level. And you can find all of those things at your Enneagram coach. com. Now we also train exceptional Enneagram coaches, and they're well equipped to guide you in your own personal journey and growth. Now, you can find your own coach at my Enneagram coach. com. That's my Enneagram coach. com. For those of you out there that are like me, and you're an Enneagram enthusiast, and you find yourself telling others about the Enneagram and giving them advice or guiding them, then you might want to consider becoming an Enneagram coach. And if so, Get a taste with our free mini course at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course. Okay. Now today's episode, we have quite the treat because you're going to get an exclusive peek into what a real Enneagram coaching session is like with a type six. Now, I'm sure that you have been learning about the Enneagram. It could be through this podcast, books, it could be through blog posts, and on and on. But to have a real chance to see what an Enneagram coaching session is like with a type six. Now that I'm pretty sure you haven't seen yet. So I wanted to give you the opportunity to experience that today. So what we're going to do is we're going to go through Our coaching guide sheets. Now this is how we train our coaches and there's five guide sheets for each type. And we take them through that foundational understanding of their personality type through these guide sheets. And then we use that foundational information to do more work after that. So today we're going to dive into the first guide sheet for a type six. and you're going to see how these guide sheets are packed full of really insightful information, but in a way that helps the client to digest the information and to be able to apply it to their everyday lives. I mean, let's face it. We constantly are doing things over and over again that we wish we would avoid. And we, if we just had clarity, maybe we could change. Well, that's exactly what Enneagram coaching is all about. And these guide sheets are going to help us to do that today. Well, Let me give you the background information in our type six, who gave me full permission to share this coaching session with you all. And her name is Lisa Mitchell. Now, Lisa and her husband, Kyle, who is a type seven, they have been married for 26 years and they have four adult kids ages 19 through 24. Yes, she had four kids in four years. And they all span through different time zones. Now, Lisa initially taught elementary school for two decades before transitioning into being a kid's ministry director at her church, which was a really big church. Now, then she moved into helping her husband in the wellness counseling center. But here is where she became an Enneagram coach, and she has used those skills in that environment. And so you'll hear more about that in today's episode, because where she's getting stuck is in developing this coaching business from a place of courage and strength, and you'll see it all unfold today. because Enneagram coaching is customized for the person that we are working with. Though Lisa is a type six, she has her own story, her own challenges that we get to uncover today, but also help her to get on a healthy path. And with that, here it is our coaching session together. Hey, Lisa. So good to see you. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks. Good.

Unveiling the Core of a Type Six Personality

Beth 5:50

Okay. Well, so we're going to dive into guide sheet number one for you as a type six and. The first part that we're going to do is we're just going to look at these five words that are on top of, uh, this guide sheet. And I want you to, or yeah, I'll have you read these, but then when you're done, tell me which one or ones really popped out at you and why, like what was really kind of going on, whether in your heart or your mind, or maybe even your gut. So I'll let you start.

Lisa 6:24

Sure. Um, committed. Responsible, faithful, suspicious and anxious.

Beth 6:34

So which one of those really kind of popped out at you and why?

Lisa 6:38

Um, I am typically a very deeply committed person. Uh, so I def, I definitely, um, if you need someone to hang with you, if you're going through a rough time or stick with you, uh, I'm your go to person for that. I'm deeply committed to my friendships and my relationships and even my job almost. To my detriment, um, which goes along with being faithful. I'm also, uh, I am also responsible when it comes to my work, although I do disconnect when I get home. I don't necessarily feel myself being super suspicious right at first, but if I have that. My spidey senses feeling, Ooh, this doesn't quite match. I'm really fast to fall into being suspicious. Um, and then anxiety, I'm a six week. We do anxiety like a pro. Yeah,

Beth 7:31

that's right. And we're going In just a second on the anxiety piece. Um, but I love that. I love how you really kind of were able to nuance each of them and they go kind of in a healthy to less healthy perspective. Um, okay. So let's dive into, um, This portion of the guide sheet, which talks about the core motivations and each type has four core motivations that really everything hinges on this. So basically, this is the driving force behind why you think, feel and behave in your particular ways as a type six. Um, And so the core fear is what you're always trying to run away from or prevent from happening. You have a core desire that's, Oh man, if I get that life will be fulfilled. And then you have a core weakness and this, you know, the other teachers will call it the passion or the deadly sin. Um, but I like to call it the core weakness and because it's like our Achilles heel, a thorn on our side, the thing that keeps tripping us up all the time. Um, and then we have a core longing, and this is the message our heart longs to hear and experience. So for you as a type six, we'll run through each of these. So, your core fear is the fear of, uh, fearing, uh, or fearing fear itself, uh, being without support. Security or guidance being blamed, targeted, alone, or physically abandoned. And then the core desire is having security guidance and support. Your core weakness is anxiety. Now. All types can be anxious, but for the six, this is where the sixes are scanning the horizon of life and trying to predict and prevent negative outcomes, especially worst case scenarios. And so they're remaining in a constant state of apprehension and worry. Now the court. Weakness, um, and I'll get to the core longing in just a second, but the core weakness really is coming from this inner dialogue that's happening for the sixes. Now, the type one has a loud inner critic that they wholeheartedly believe they know that the, this inner critic has the wisdom and the insights and they better follow it. But the type six has an inner committee. And this inner committee is chiming in from all different perspectives. Well, what about this? And then another one is the, what about that? And then have you thought of this or that, and what did you prepare for all these things? And so all of a sudden the internal committee of the type six is causing a lot of confusion, chaos, and self doubt for the type six, because which one do they listen to? Like which one's got the goods and, and it's going to guide. The six in the right path. So this creates self doubt in the six and the six looks outside themselves for a trusted person or belief system, leader, institution, something that they can really feel secure in following. Um, Which is very different than that type one. And so the six is looking for that kind of security because of the anxiety of the inner committee. Now, ultimately the type six longs to hear an experience from someone saying you are safe and secure. So how.

Navigating Life's Challenges with Enneagram Insights

Beth 10:58

For you as a type six and especially, um, maybe tell us a scenario as you're kind of piecing these four things together, a scenario of where you see your core motivations really coming into light, like something you're struggling with or a certain circumstance that you're dealing with right now.

Lisa 11:18

Yeah, I think this shows up for me more. In a more pronounced way in my profession, I mean, I do a lot of sixing at home. There's no doubt about that, but, um, I was an elementary school teacher for 21 years, so I've got really accustomed to sitting under the. The leadership, the guidance, the safety of a principal or an assistant principal, and even, you know, uh, the teacher code of conduct, the guidelines for the school district, I found a lot of safety there, too. It's like, oh, well, here's a black and white. Here's a black and white scenario. So I know exactly what to do. Um, you know, and teaching was very rewarding for me. I did it for a long time. And literally, that's what I went to college for. So I got out of college and went straight into the education world and stayed there until 2018. Um, and then, you know, kind of shifted out of that and found myself really kind of. floundering, um, being in a system where, uh, at that time I went into a church ministry role. I was a kids ministry director of a very large and fast growing church. There are about 500 kids in the kids ministry. And, um, my church leadership was basically like, You're smart. You were a teacher. You got this. Just go with your gut. And I was like, what? What does that even mean? Go with your gut. It was, um, astounding to me. Uh, maybe that's a little too strong of a word, but I think I was just genuinely surprised. That's how hard that was. I literally felt like I got pushed into the deep end. And that's the only way I can describe it. I was floundering. And I just wanted someone to tell me what to do. And I think it was around that time that I was introduced to the Enneagram. And so when I took the assessment and saw the type 6, I was like, that's It's like, that's the, that's the vocabulary to explain what I'm feeling and why I felt so, um, I don't know, adrift, maybe would be disconnected even from myself. I just hadn't even realized until I was in that situation. Of what it felt like to literally, to, to literally be, um, without guidance with, and I felt like I was without support. Now I know that I was supported, but because no one, I was literally, I, I was the first full time kids ministry director that the church had ever had. And, uh, I was replacing an interim. So even. Then I didn't have anybody that was really like, this is how you do kids ministry. So, um, it was hard for a long time trying to find my feet and really learning how to believe in myself. Um, and then just when I was starting to figure that out, the door opened for me to become an Enneagram coach, which I lost. All leadership at that point, other than, you know, it's like, I didn't even have a director to report to. I am my own director, right? So it was like, really like, what am I doing? You know, the beauty of that is that I really did get to. Lean into Jesus. I make it sound like it's past tense. It's not past tense. I'm still doing it right. Um, yeah But the whole um, you know I'm glad that the Lord let me tiptoe into that a little bit and kind of see what that is so that I could build my confidence To a certain degree, but yeah, it has been an eye opening experience to see just how much, or how dependent I had become on secure guidance and frameworks that were already done for me. And, you know, so it's, it's been an interesting journey.

Beth 15:07

For sure. I can totally understand what you're saying. Coming from, yeah, the secure system of, okay, this is how you teach. And this is how our school goes about it. Here are the procedures and the protocols, um, and feeling very kind of like there's a firm foundation underneath you exactly. Still feeling supported from the church, but not necessarily guided, like you're needing to be your own guide. Right. And right. It was that, the beginning of this feeling of fear and if there was fear there, what do you think the fear was pointing to? Like what were you ultimately afraid of?

Lisa 15:49

Uh, I don't even have to think about it. I know I felt being blamed Okay. I was, uh, I felt very much like. The kids ministry that had been, was there before I started, uh, and had already grown to a certain degree. Like if, if that collapsed for some reason that I was somehow gonna shoulder the blame for that. Um, and if parents were upset, if teachers were upset, if volunteers quit, I was, uh, Managing about 100 over 160 volunteers every single week. And, um, if they called in and said they couldn't teach, I was, I took that personally. Like, why are you calling in? Why are you calling in saying you can't teach? What did I do? Did I do something wrong? Like, I was blaming myself constantly. of like, I didn't do something right. I didn't encourage them enough. I didn't get how I didn't put enough, um, substitutes in place to cover all the people who were absent. It's like, and it was terrible. And like you said, it's all, it was all here. This is a mental game for me. Um, I didn't, I shared some of it with some people, but they got a very superficial version of what was really going on. In my heart and in my thinking, so it was pretty, it's pretty hard for me in

Beth 17:07

that season. For sure. Yeah. And I just want to highlight a few things in that because like we had talked about at the beginning, the word committed and responsible. So it makes sense because we're, we're all looking through life circumstances through our types lenses, right? Like as if you have glasses on. And so you are perceiving the world, interpreting it, and then reacting to it through your type six lens. And the type six is like, well, I'm, I'm going to be committed and responsible and faithful. So if I'm volunteering and I say, I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it. And so when those. People would call up and say, they're not going to do it. It what's interesting is the word responsible actually kind of flipped its head. And instead of you being like, they're not being responsible, you took it upon yourself that the responsibility light lays on you and that you must've done something wrong. Were you not committed or responsible or faithful enough to then have this ripple effect that they said they couldn't do it? And so, and that happens for sixes all the time. They

Lisa 18:16

take the responsibility. That is so interesting.

Beth 18:19

Yeah. They took the blame. That is,

Lisa 18:21

that is so, I've never thought about it like that before, but that is exactly what was going through my mind.

Beth 18:29

And so then they, they're, they're turning it onto themselves and I, instead of me kind of talking more about that, actually, I just want to ask a question. If you're able to put the blame back on you, what do you think? And you may not know, like this may be a totally new concept, but how is that a safer way? Like a defensive mechanism versus blaming the other person.

Lisa 19:01

Well, there's that loyalty piece, right? And so if there's the risk of, um, losing their loyalty, if I put the blame where the blame really goes. And so it's easier for me to absorb that, uh, especially in a leadership role, um, than it is for me to get mad at them. I remember, uh, with one. With one leader in particular, it was over and over and over. And my assistant, I remember came up to me and he was just like, what you need to address this. You need to address this. And I was like. I can't address that. I just need to, I just need to come alongside behind this person and just fix it. Um, and it's because I was, I was deeply concerned that if I addressed it, I would lose that person's loyalty to me and their faithfulness to the ministry. And then the result, the repercussions of that, you know, would damage my reputation. It would damage the kids ministries reputation. All of that. So it's like all coming

Beth 19:59

back to this vicious cycle. Yeah, coming back to you being blamed because you weren't loyal enough to make this happen. Um, yeah. And so I think that's, I think that's something to kind of consider, you know, like. Cause like I said, sixes do this a lot. Like I'm married to one, I have a son, I have a mom, I have a best friend that's a six, like my employees are sixes and they tend to take on the responsibility first. Before pointing the finger at someone else. And a lot of it also comes from the self doubt. So the common false message that the sixes have in their mind is don't trust yourself. So the six is like, well, I can't trust myself. I must have done something wrong. I must have not been committed enough, or I must have, you know, so it's a. Um, a way of taking the blame, the responsibility on so that the other person can't beat them to the punch of blaming them. Um, it's like, Oh, I've already thought of all the reasons why that person would blame me. And so I'm ready for it when in actuality, the other people aren't probably thinking in that direction at all. Possibly because it's not true, but also, um, you know, they are the ones at fault. You know, they're the ones that, that drop the ball. Um, but so kind of consider that as you move forward as how are you trying to project into the future, a sense of owning the responsibility and the blame to kind of get in front of. what could happen, which is being blamed. So that is kind of a less of a blow or less of a surprise. Does that kind of make sense?

Lisa 21:47

Yeah. I, there's a lot of heart work involved in that first six. And I think, you know, when you talk about, um, Paul's thorn in his side that he walked with daily, I love how the Bible doesn't really fully describe that. It's kind of ambiguous left our own interpretation. And for me, the thorn in my side that I wake up with every day is this. Uh, constant worry, constant concern that, um, I haven't planned for everything. And because I haven't planned for everything, if something falls apart, it's because I didn't plan for everything. Um, and so it's just constantly like trying to. Plays devil's devil's advocate with myself, trying to play devil's advocate with other people. The interesting thing with the devil's advocate with other people is usually by the time I have the courage to speak it out loud, I've already ruminated on it in my mind for hours. So it's like, it's what people are hearing come out of my mouth is rarely a knee jerk reaction. It is very much like I was actually up for a couple of hours thinking about this last night. Yeah. So it's like really, it's like a vicious cycle

Beth 22:55

for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of that is, well, if I were to say this thing or place the blame outside of myself or ask someone to be responsible, I have got to think through all. The ways that person might come back at me and be ready for it. Right. And so then if I actually do say it or ask for them to step up, then I need to kind of be ready for however they're going to respond. And, you know, because I don't, I don't trust the situation. I'm kind of suspicious of that other person in this circumstance, but then ultimately. The courage to say something comes up because the, the six really does feel a great need to be authentic and And so you're wrestling with what you think the scenario, how it might play out. But you also know, if you don't say something, then you're not being loyal and authentic to yourself, which is just as damaging and harmful. And so you're like, well, I've got to say something. So you're ruminating to make sure. And so a lot of people could hear this and think, oh, well, then that sounds very nine ish. And in some regards, there is. That nine part of your heart that is definitely like, Oh, I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to be blamed and targeted. Very six ish nine. I don't want tension and conflict. And so it is playing a part, but then the six inner committee steps in and really gives you all the different things that could happen, which then self doubt comes in and suspicion of yourself and then suspicion of others. So.

The Power of Self-Reassurance and Gospel Truths

Beth 24:32

Just, I'm curious real quickly before we move into the next section, what do you think, just even talking about this right now, if you were to coach someone at that, that is a six and in that conundrum, what, how would you guide them in needing to say a hard thing to someone else that they weren't, the other person wasn't the loyal one or the committed one, and they really need to kind of step up to the plate. How would you coach that person? I

Lisa 24:59

think, you know, one of the passages in scripture that I really resonate is where God talks about, uh, he will keep in perfect peace him whose mind has stayed on Christ. And so being intentional to wallpaper my mind with the truth of the gospel, things that I know to be true, and then encouraging other sixes that I deal with to, to do the same thing. Like sixes, because our inner committee is so bold and strong. Um, if, if we're not careful, we can give. We can give credence to that as if it's the Holy Spirit talking to us, you know, and so how can we, how can we change that language? Um, and it's, you know, I remember doing a Bible study a few years ago that talked about wallpaper in your mind with the gospel truth. And the only way you can do that is to memorize scripture. It's like bringing scripture to bear in your mind when you are. Struggling, um, and knowing that the truth of the gospel is, is louder than your inner committee, right? And, uh, asking the Holy Spirit to really, to, to be that louder voice when there's a struggle. I was actually coaching a six, uh. For the first time in a while, I coached a six a few months ago, but it'd been a little while. And another six came in just this last week. And I could hear in her some of the things that I struggled with a while ago. And it was really beautiful to me, even just hearing what she was saying, although she was in a difficult spot, it was neat to hear. Wow. I used to think that way. And because of my intentionality to memorize scripture and keep reminding myself of the truth of the gospel and saturating myself in that truth, that, that I do have a greater sense of freedom now. And so she, in some ways, she was kind of like a mirror to how I used to behave and think. Um, you know, and so in that I can give her hope to of like, Hey, I'm, I'm not just spouting things that you, that I think might work like these actually do work, these things, they make a difference

Beth 27:10

because you have to fight that. And I imagine, cause you know, the six with a self doubt, I'm hoping that you were able to go wait, like. When I step into truth, it gives me the courage to change. And when I have the courage to change, there's a ripple effect. And now the ripple is you working with another six and being able to be compassionate and empathetic, but also giving them great hope instead of feeling hopeless. So that's, that's really beautiful. Wow. I bet that was a really neat experience.

Lisa 27:43

It was very neat. It was, it was a gift that I wasn't expecting that night. I was like excited to have another six walk in the room.

Beth 27:50

Yeah. Right.

Lisa 27:52

But just in the, in the course of that evening, just God, God in his goodness was able to just say, remember when you struggled with that kind of thinking. And so it was, it was really sweet. It was a sweet moment.

Beth 28:03

I always tell people, I'm like, this is the best job ever. And I'm like, no, seriously, it is. You know, I love it.

Understanding the Six's Mind: Fear and Security

Beth 28:09

Okay. So let's jump into, this is kind of the overview of the type six. I'm going to read the first. Oh, three ish paragraphs or so. And as I'm reading, just kind of think of, again, of what's really popping up or what kind of is hitting your heart or your mind, um, more loudly, I guess, than other things. And then we'll talk about why and we'll kind of connect it with, um, the core fears. And then again, if you have a particular situation that you're feeling stuck in or, um, you can't get past, or you're maybe having a lot of self doubt in. Let's kind of weave that circumstance in with what we're learning. Okay. So the first three paragraphs say you are the most reliable, hardworking, dutiful, and steady people out there. Your dependability, sense of humor, ability to foresee problems, and fiercely loyal, um, causes you to be an incredible team player. You hold groups together and benefit the common good. However, you are plagued with a constant interfere and uncertainty. You experience the world as a dangerous place where you must be hyper vigilant scanning for things that could threaten your safety, security, and relationships. Whether you do this to avoid danger or you challenge, challenge it by going head into it, um, you can be prone to see. Uh, and assume the worst. You manage your anxiety by preemptively running through and preventing the potential problems and the negative outcomes inside your mind is a nagging inner committee constantly asking, but what about this? But what about that? So what of, of those three paragraphs really stood out to you the most? And there were some really positive things in there and then the not so positives.

Lisa 30:04

Um, I, I. Agree that I'm very dutiful. Um, and I am very steady. You know, I, it's like, I just kind of hum along like this and everybody kind of waves up around me. And I'm like, go like this. I totally, I totally get that. Um, I do think when you look at that sentence that talks about the world being a dangerous place and hyper vigilant scanning the horizons for things that could threaten safety, security and relationships. Um, you know, one of the things that's. sticks with me, uh, is the death of my sister. You know, she passed away in, uh, when she was 22, I was 24. So it was a long time ago. And she was sick for four years with cancer before she passed away. Um, and that was a, that season, that four year season was just this, uh, Intensity to how do we solve this? How do we solve this? How do we solve this? And of course, you know, your resources are limited. She had pancreatic cancer, which in 1993 was like, what do you, what do you do with that? But, um, yeah, so, um, for me, the way that played out was this constantly searching the horizon to try to prevent, uh, things that could be. to death. And I know that sounds so morbid, but it's the way my mind operated. Um, and it still does to a certain degree. I remember I was putting up our Christmas stockings this last year and I had them all lined up on my bed after Christmas to put in this, in the basket. And I remember looking at them and just going, will I be able to hang up all the stockings next year or will somebody be gone? And I'm like, who thinks that way? I do. It's horrible. It's horrible. It's, and I'm like, why did, but it's like that thought just kind of pops in my head and I didn't even realize it was there. Um, and I do remember like early on in our marriage with my husband, uh, this was way before cell phones. So we've been married 26 years. And he had called me and said, I'm on my way home from work. Well, he worked about 20 minutes away. So when an hour went by and he still wasn't home, I had, I just assumed that he was, Dead in a ditch. I was calling hospitals. I was calling police Departments I was I called the pastor to come and sit with me. I called my best friend and Lo and behold he had just stopped on the way home He saw somebody he saw on the side of the road that he knew that he needed to talk to you So he pulled over and chatted with him by the time he came home. He was Two hours late and he walked into this room full of people that were comforting me. I was already like planning his funeral. I mean, it's ridiculous. And we laugh about that today. My husband and I do, he comes up in conversation every once in a while, but, um, I, I was absolutely convinced because of my history with my sister that, uh, because when he was late, he was. He was dead. That's it. Um, and I still fight that even when my kids get in their car to head home after, after spending a holiday with us, like, uh, there's, and not only am I trying to fight the idea that they might die on the way home, but I'm also trying to fight the idea of like. Visualizing it like, yeah, I can, I can not just think it, but I can completely picture it. Like I can play a movie in my head and I have all the players in the scenery and the props, everything. So it can be really debilitating. You talk about worst case scenario thinking that is like, that is probably the number one quality of a six that I, that I do the most, unfortunately.

Beth 33:40

I mean, obviously it makes 100%. Sense, you know, you went through such a traumatic experience over the course of four years and then the death of your sister, which would make any of the nine types feel intrepidation with what could happen next, but to then add to it is. The mind of a six, right? And so you, the mind of a six already is going to think of worst case scenarios, but then when you lived a worst case scenario, everything's kind of painted even more starkly with that scenario in mind, because it happened. And, and so I'm assuming your personality is doing its due diligence. It's, uh, duty to you to protect you by thinking in this way. So it's, um, it's a way of your personality trying to create safety and security though. Maybe others might think, well, yeah, but then you had all these people and here you thought he was dead. But again, if you understand how each type works and operates that wounded part of your heart. Was trying its best to provide for you. It just was doing it in a way that wasn't helpful. Um, You know, ultimately, but it really thought it was and so that's where, you know, as we coach people, we really want them to welcome that part of them without, uh, condemnation or shame or judgment and. You know, one thing that, you know, sixes can be really good at is reassuring others and, but what's important is how can they turn that reassurance to others into reassurance for themselves? What would that look like for you? In a, because there might be similar incidences that come down the road where you're unsure if a family member or a friend is okay, where can reassurance come up in those places in

The Journey of Self-Discovery and Empowerment

Beth 35:53

those moments for you? What would that look like?

Lisa 35:57

Yeah, a lot of that, um, a lot of that looks like, uh, once again, preaching the gospel to myself, like what, so if this worst case scenario does happen, then what? Well, I, I have a savior and he catches you when you fall. So, um, that's the, that's the thinking that I have to bring to the table all the time. Now my five wing pops in this one too. I like, I had a really big fear of, um, flying for a while because I didn't know what all the sounds were like, what does that sound? Why is the airplane doing this? What's all this, uh, Fog in the, in the cabin. We're dying. We're going to die. The plane is going down. It's so bad. Um, but then I decided, uh, I was like, I'm just going to research it. And so I literally like, Google, what is it? What is the, what sound is the sound plane? When I hear this sound, what is the plane doing? And it's like that knowledge. Was like, Oh, okay. So the next time I flew, it was dramatic. The difference in my fear because I took the time to educate myself. And so I wasn't speculating anymore. I actually brought knowledge to the table as if I'd had a conversation with a pilot. Who's like, Oh, Lisa, when you see this, that means the pilot is doing fill in the blank. It's like, once I knew that, I was

Beth 37:18

like, Oh, okay. Oh, so that's, that's a strategy for me. Like goosebumps, because that is like the perfect example of a six themselves. Because like we were talking about the wounded part of your heart or the wounded child. It's trying to help you, but it, it's a younger version of yourself and it just doesn't have the skills that you actually need today, but this healthier version, we call it the beloved child. Part of your heart does have the skills and, and is learning more skills along the way of how to lead all of the parts of your heart. To a place of safety and security. And so that's exactly what you did was, um, I have fear of this and, but it's inevitable. I'm going to have to get on airplanes, you know, periodically. So how can I help myself and help bring courage? But part of that is information. And I love how you literally guided yourself into a better, healthier state. That, that is beautiful.

Lisa 38:20

Yeah. I mean, I do think that the gospel is a huge piece of that, but also information is power. And there is, there is strength when you're not just supposing everything because it's in the supposing that my mind can just fall into this catastrophic thinking. So I can pull

Beth 38:41

myself out of that situation.

Lisa 38:43

Exactly. When the reality, it's just one thing. It's just a flap. We have to have it to land. You're not gonna die.

Beth 38:50

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's a good thing. It's a good noise. You want that noise, right? Okay, so I'll read the last. Three paragraphs, and then we'll do the same thing and we'll kind of bring this together. Is there something that in particular you feel maybe stuck in, in like a current situation that you would like to kind of unpack or unfold a little bit?

The Leap of Faith: Transitioning to Full-Time Enneagram Coaching

Lisa 39:16

Yeah. I think I mentioned this a little bit earlier about just the, the leap of faith that it Um, my job at the church, uh, you know, like I said, teacher for 21 years, working in a fast growing, fast paced church for four years through COVID. We did that during through COVID. That was crazy. Tell me what case you were thinking, um, and then, uh, decided opening the door open for me to jump on staff with my husband in the counseling center. And in this counseling center, I'm.

Exploring the Impact of the Enneagram in Counseling

Lisa 39:47

The Enneagram coach, and I'm the only Enneagram coach on staff. And so my, my boss is very supportive of the Enneagram. Um, he feels like it's an amazing tool to build self awareness and self knowledge. And when you're counseling people, a lot of times that piece is missing from their puzzle. You know, so Enneagram counseling or coaching is very helpful in the counseling world. Um, but that being said, I'm kind of on my own. I'm leading myself here. Um, so I have the, once again, I have the support of my director, but he, he, I actually know more about the Enneagram than he does. So it's like, uh, the.

Navigating Self-Doubt and Growth in a New Career

Lisa 40:31

The, the steps I've had to take in the last year or so since I became a certified coach have been, um, there's been a lot of trepidation, a lot of second guessing, a lot of wondering, and, um, you know, did I make the right choice? Am I doing it right? Um, I think I even sent Adam Breckenridge an email that was like, my train came off the track. And he, he emailed me back and was like, you're okay. It was such a great day. It was such a nice email to get back from a fellow six.

Beth 41:02

So

Lisa 41:08

it's like, there's just been so many ins and outs with this transition into, um, full time Enneagram coach, Enneagram coaching as a career path. Um, there's just been a lot of second guessing, a lot of beauty. Obviously I got a front row seat, transformational thinking with people. And that is. God is just amazing, but there's always like this self doubt just kind of lingering,

Beth 41:34

right? Right. All the, the intercommittee like, well, but are you sure? Yeah, exactly. Well, that makes, that makes total sense. And so let me read the last three paragraphs and let's see, you know, what God is going to do with that particular. situation, circumstance that keeps popping up and how this information can kind of help reshape your mind and your heart as you move forward. Okay. So when you forget the truth of the gospel, you are plagued with uncertainty, self doubt, worry, and catastrophic thinking. This leaves you feeling anxious and unable to relax and trust yourself and others. Your mind becomes muddled, hesitant to make decisions and skeptical. You will focus on planning for and controlling catastrophes, um, in your attempt to live in a world that is trouble free and predictable. In relationships, you may struggle with projecting your fears, doubts, and insecurities onto others as a means to protect yourself. This mis Are these misplaced fears, suspicions, and doubts often erode your trust in God, others, and even yourself. However, when your heart aligns with the gospel and you learn to take your fears and anxieties to Christ, you experience a transformation that brings forth great courage. You can rest and trust knowing that you are secure in him. And experience a piece that surpasses the fears that you see in the world around you. So what popped up for you in that?

Lisa 43:17

Um, I love what it talks about. Uh, when you forget the truth of the gospel, you're plagued with uncertainty. So then the opposite of that is when you remember the truth of the gospel, you are gifted the certainty. So it's like going back to that wallpaper in your mind. Yep, you know just like the truth of the gospel is what sets us free, you know And in the Holy Spirit, there is unity like I can move forward with great faith knowing that the Holy Spirit is not going to Tell me yes until somebody else. No Like there is unity in that Holy Spirit You know, this, this brought to mind one of my favorite stories, uh, in the Bible when it talks about, um, I think it's the book of Judges with Gideon and he was sitting under the tree and he was threshing his wheat and the angel of the Lord appeared to him, and of course we know the angel of the Lord is Jesus, um, appeared to him and called him a mighty warrior before he ever went to battle. And it's like God in that moment saw Gideon through the lens of his potential. Um, when he was just a farmer and hadn't done anything spectacular in his life. And I, I remind myself that God looks at me that way too. He sees me through the lens of his, of my potential and that I have courage in the Holy Spirit, that there is deep abiding courage inside of me, that, uh, that the Lord in his Divine grace gives to me, like it's there, it's just, am I going to access

Beth 44:47

it? Yeah, right. Yeah. So, yeah. And so then, yeah, how does that apply? Like how, like, can, how do you and can you apply that when you're, In this new season of, okay, now I'm an Enneagram coach, but I'm an entrepreneur. Therefore I have to kind of step out on my own, which I've already seen in the past makes me really fearful. And I doubt myself, but now I've got this piece of the puzzle, the truth. How do you then incorporate that in those particular scenarios?

Lisa 45:20

I wish I could say that it was easy and that I did it every morning when I wake up without a problem, but I would be lying to all of us. If I said that was true. Um, it is, uh, if it's a day to day thing, if not an hour to hour thing, it's like, I could be trucking along thinking, okay, this is, this is great. I know I'm on the right path. And then one email, one text, one phone call. And I'm like, back to the catastrophic thinking. It's like, well, what was I thinking? This is so dumb. Um, yeah. You know, so it's like, it is, it is a journey. And honestly, it feels like a very sanctifying experience for me, like in this, in this season, when I'm doing something so new and so outside of my comfort zone and outside of my box that I can't, I have no other choice. But to lean on Jesus because without him, I can't get there. It's

Beth 46:11

a, he, you don't have the principle anymore. You don't have exactly. Yeah.

Lisa 46:17

Yeah. It's like he revealed my, he revealed to me. And I mean, then I want to just make sure I come across and make that I'm clear that I see this as a kindness that the Lord really revealed to me how much of an idol those supportive guides were for me. Like I, uh, put them on a, on a, on a level that was sometimes equivalent to savior, if not surpassed savior. Um, and you know, that was, that's disobedience in my heart to do that. And so in this season, the Lord has really put me in a position where I have no other choice than to look at Jesus and say, if it's not for you, this is a failure. I mean, it's, and. It's a, it's a scary place to be like standing on the edge of a cliff, but knowing that you have, you have the safety net of Jesus waiting for you while you take that leap. So yeah, yeah. It's pretty extraordinary.

Beth 47:18

Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, we have. To step out and you know, in that courage, not just on a daily basis, but an hourly minute by minute. And that's the core weakness because it's going to constantly trip us up from time to time. But like you said, also, it is. the kindness of the Lord to remind us that he's already there. He's already meeting our needs. And so, like you said, what we wish that we just, we, we understand it now. Now we're going to solve the problem. No more worry, no more anxiety, but that's not until we get to heaven and our wisdom. But until then we have the already and the not yet. So we have the security and the guidance and yet we're going to struggle because. We're not fully in heaven yet. And so it's the bread pan. Um, okay, so let's go to the backside of the guide sheet and on the backside of the guide sheet, what, um, people will see, um, if they're watching the YouTube channel is four boxes and the F and they'll see the Enneagram symbol within each of these boxes and. It highlights your type as a type six and how you're connected to the three and the nine in the lines of the Enneagram and you move both in healthy and unhealthy ways, um, to each of these numbers, the three and the nine. So we're going to walk through just kind of how these do play out.

Identifying and Overcoming Stress Paths as an Enneagram Type Six

Beth 48:45

So the first box is the stress path and the stress path is really kind of. How you're thinking, feeling, and reacting when you're under stress. And so what happens is you can take on some of the average to the unhealthy aspects of the type three. Now that doesn't mean you become a three, but it's trying to influence you. It's a part of you that's trying to influence you now when you're not as healthy. So let's say your wounded child is more activated. So the less healthy part of six is activated than the less. Healthy part of three is going to be activated and it's going to be kind of like, raise his hand. Like, Oh, I've, I've got it. I'm going to help you with my wisdom. But again, it's the less healthy part of the three. So at this stage of when you're really under stress, the type three is trying to influence you by, and then how it shows up for the six is you can become, um, where you're arrogantly believing that you see. All the possible scenarios that you've got it figured out. So it's kind of this competent arrogance of the worst case scenario person. And then you can keep busy by avoiding feeling anxious. So maybe you are cleaning or you're getting to work on something or you're being responsible or dutiful. And so you're not, you're hoping that, Oh, well maybe if I keep busy, I won't feel anxious. Then you might refuse to try something new if failure is a possibility. And then you're going to worry about your own self image and you're going to put on like some likable persona. Um, now this is kind of tricky for the, the six because they're all about being authentic, but the three part of your heart shows up and is like, uh, you know, that's not going to be okay. We're going to have to shapeshift. We're going to have to look a certain part. So hopefully these other people will remain loyal. So. What parts of the stress path really stood out to you the most?

Lisa 50:36

I'm laughing at that first one, because that shows up when every time I'm packing for a trip, I mean, every time I, I am the only person who can possibly imagine all the weather that we're going to have all the shoes we might need. Oh, it's so ridiculous.

Beth 50:54

Oh, boy. And okay, so my mom's at six and she's a phobic six and she thinks of. All the things. And so I feel very well trained. And so when my stress path is actually from a nine is going to six. And so I am very well attuned to all the worst case scenarios because my mom really, so when I'm even looking at that, I'm like, Oh, I totally get it. But what I love about this little spin is that the six feels. This arrogancy. Now what's interesting is sixes are like, I'm not arrogant. And I'm like, well, you're right. It's not like the three arrogance. Okay. But how it shows up is, well, if you want to listen to me, you would have remembered to pack that coat, or you would have remembered to pack, you know, your computer charger, you know, like, and so that's where the arrogance kind of comes in, um, of. I would have thought of all things through. That's really great. So,

Lisa 51:53

so true. So true. Oh, my gosh. Um, obviously the refusing to try something new, a failure is possibly that definitely shows up, but I honestly think it. It kind of goes back to what I was telling you about with the church, right? When we were talking about that earlier of like, um, I, my, it reflects badly on me as the children's ministry director, when we don't have the classroom well staffed on a Sunday morning. And so, um, I do find myself shape shifting and because, you know, I'm inside. Worried sick that this is going to fall apart and be a train wreck. But on the outside, I'm just like, Instant is great! We get to be a team! And, um, it's crazy. And it's, what's really funny is I see myself, and I, I can't remember, I think it was something that your husband said once on a podcast. Um, and you, you corrected him about using the word we, when he's talking about sixes and I'm like, I use the word we all the time. And I, I really analyzed myself that there's safety in that pronoun. But if I say we, then I am not by myself and we're going to rise together and we're going to fall together. And so if there is blame, it's going to be shared.

Beth 53:10

And

Lisa 53:11

I just think that, I think that might be something for sixes to consider, but just, you know, really paying attention to how many times you use the word. We in a sentence, um, especially if you're, if you're using it as like a safety net, like if I say we, then that means we're on a team and teams, it's like the, it's like a, um, a rifle with gunshot rather than it's like, if

Beth 53:38

there's going to be blame, we all take a little bit of the blame, not just me. A core fear, right?

Lisa 53:47

It is a core fear. But I saw myself using the word we a lot when I do that last one. Worrying about my self image and putting on a likable persona. Like, I'm going to establish support by, be like, you're on my team, remember? We're in this together, remember? So, yeah.

Beth 54:06

Interesting. That's great. Okay. So the next box over is called the blind spot path.

Embracing Growth and Confronting Blind Spots

Beth 54:12

And this is when a person is mainly with their family, possibly a close friend, but this is really where you let your hair down and no one really sees this part of you. Like I said, except for these certain people. Um, and so this isn't something you're going to do just. Out and about with, you know, everyday people like at work or you know, at your kids, um, sports or whatever. So, right, which is why we call it the blind spot path. 'cause honestly, this is. This is the things that really kind of frustrate us when we see that person, um, with that personality type, do it, we're like, Oh, that's so annoying that we don't even like recognize it in ourselves. And we do this at home. Um, again, it's, it's a blend of your main type and for you, this path goes to nine. So you're bringing in some nine characteristics at home and how this is going to look like. So you're going to bring in some of the average to the unhealthy characteristics of nine, and you're going to deal with stress. obligations and feeling overwhelmed by shutting down, you're going to react to negativity to, or I'm sorry, you're going to react negatively to interruptions or disturbances. You're going to use passive aggressive behaviors to avoid confrontations. And then stubbornly resist getting, um, out of control or getting out of your comfort zone and your comfort routines, um, and your comfortable, um, cozy environment. So, which one of those really stood out to you and why?

Lisa 55:41

Um, the second one where it talks about reacting negatively to interruptions and disturbances, I remember, I think it was 2019, maybe 2020. When my word of the year was interrupt because I felt like God was really telling me, Lisa, you've got to do a better job of being okay with interruptions. Um, because when you think about a six thinking through worst case scenario thinking, I have already planned like 40 steps ahead. So anytime somebody comes in with an interruption. I'm like, I, now I have to rethink everything. That little interruption just derailed all my thought processes. So that's a big one for me. And then I, I do struggle with shutting down. I think the Enneagram has really shown that to me. I didn't have words for that until I had the Enneagram. And then I realized, oh my gosh, I do. I'll go to my room and, uh, read a book or, um, You know, play on my phone. I'll do something to shut down. And I do that because I'm overwhelmed and it's easier just to disconnect than it is to engage. Right?

Beth 56:45

Yeah. Especially when we're exhausted. Um, exactly. Here's what's so interesting. So. Like I said, these annoy us, um, when we see other people do them that like, so like if you were to see a type nine like myself and you're seeing me just on a normal basis, shutting down, ignoring, disassociating, um, maybe being passive aggressive, it really can frustrate sixes. Um, But that's why this is so helpful with the blind spot path is because our family is experiencing these on a, again, a different level because you're a six, but they're experiencing these things. And yet we don't even realize they're experiencing it from us. So when we ask our family, like, Hey, do I actually show up in this way? And they're like, Yeah. Like you didn't know. I was like, uh, no, I didn't, you know, what's interesting is that if we look at the box next to it on the right side, um, that's the growth path and it's the same arrow going to the same type. So the six goes to nine in growth now. How I explain this to people is like, growth is hard, right? It's like going up a current of water or it's like climbing, you know, or hiking up a hill. Like it's really hard. It's not something like, Oh, I just love this. This is so easy. I could do it all day long. Really challenging. And so what's easier. is the blind spot path, right? So the growth path is what you, your body, mind, and soul are needing. You're needing to move in that direction to become healthier, more whole. Um, but since that's hard, the blind spot, the blind spot path kind of seeps out in a less healthy way. So when you are finding yourself numbing out, checking out, playing games and not engaging in life, that's the time instead of. Shaming ourselves or putting ourselves down for a judging ourselves. It's a time of going, huh, you know what? I actually need to move in that same direction, but there's a healthier way of going about it. So your body might be saying, I am so exhausted thinking of all the worst case scenarios and being the responsible one, being the faithful one, making sure everything is done so that, you know, the team, the family has what they need. That's exhausting. And so. You need the nine to step in the nine part of your heart and guide you into a different space that's healthier. So what this would look like in the growth path is you would take on some of the healthy, um, attributes of the nine and you're going to start to relax more and enjoy moments, uh, by enabling your mind to slow down. You're going to develop secure relationships by being less reactive, and you're going to become more empathetic, compassionate, and receptive to others. And then you're going to trust your inner discernment more.

The Journey Towards Self-Leadership and Trust

Beth 59:47

So how does this look in a some sense similar, but then also very different from the blind spot path? Can you see how you're actually needing the nine? But it was showing up in a negative way. And how does this show up in your life? And you can point to maybe specific examples.

Lisa 1:00:07

Well, obviously the first two, one in the blind spot path, it's shutting down and disengaging. Um, in the growth path, it's relaxing and engaging. So it's like being able to relax and slow down and enjoy, um, but not dissociating. So like staying, staying with family. So maybe that looks like going on a walk or. Um, connecting with nature. I love to put her around in my garden, my flower garden, not my vegetable garden. But the, um, you know, so even that is just a reconnection, it caught, you know, relaxing in ways that are healthy, that don't involve just complete disconnection. In relationships. So, um, I do feel like I can see a lot of that empathy and compassion showing up more, especially as I've grown as a six, um, I still struggle with that. Trust your inner discernment more. Like, I still find myself. Even with my husband in particular, just be like, what do you think? What do you think? What do you, what, what are your thoughts on this? Um, so I do, I have to be really careful of that. And just, um, yeah, that's a

Beth 1:01:16

big one still. Yeah. And Jeff used to, um, if he was in some sort of conundrum or issue, or he started having a lot of self doubt, he would. You know, tell me the whole situation and what he's thinking and kind of trying to bounce things off of me. But what we found is that he was basically dumping a lot of stuff on me and it's almost like no matter what I said, it didn't fully relieve him or. Help him to feel secure or fully guided, even if I had some really great ideas, he, he was, he would then think of even more things and almost get frustrated. Cause it's like, well, you're not thinking of this angle and that angle. And so it really ended up being more frustrating for the both of us. And now he's learned, Oh, wait, I need. To guide myself. I need to be the self leader. I can't rely on you or other people to come through for me because ultimately comes from within, which of course we know is through the Holy spirit and truth. But so that's where, and I think that's what I'm hearing from you as well. It's like, that's where the real inner peace comes from is by going inward and hearing what the Holy spirit, because here's the thing, six is for some of the best at discerning things. And yet They doubt it the most I hear six is I'm like, Oh my gosh, you have such wisdom and discernment, but then they, they won't necessarily believe it. And I'm like, I want to like, you know, shake them only because I'm like, no, you have so much to offer. Like just believe it. And, um, but that's where let's, so let's move into.

Converging Paths: Acting Bravely and Confidently

Beth 1:02:53

the converging path, the last box, because that's going to wrap this all up. So here you are, you've moved into this growth path. You're learning to come within, to settle your mind, to be more present, to be versus constantly reacting of what could happen. And then you're moving now to. And that's the nine. Now you're moving also into the three space, which was the stress path, but now you're at the healthiest part of three. Now this is super, super hard. This is like a steep mountain, but for the six, you're going to take on some of the healthy attributes of the three, and this is where you're going to learn to direct, um, and respect and trust yourself. You're going to move forward assertively, not allowing your inner committee to sabotage your actions. You're going to delight in accomplishments, knowing that you contribute to something great and act bravely and confidently for others. So this is where, because a lot of people don't realize that sixes are the most courageous on the Enneagram. And sometimes for the reason why they, and then sixes are always like, wait, what? And the reason is because. They have all this self doubt, which can cause them to be fearful and back away. If you think about it on a daily basis, hourly basis, minute by minute, they're there, the way they're structured and hardwired is to think of all the worst case scenarios. And yet the six is showing up moment to moment, day by day. Season by season, which takes a lot of courage. So with that, and then adding this element of three, which parts of these have you seen really show up and what was that like?

Lisa 1:04:37

First of all, I love that. That is, that is so dead on. It really, really is. That's really sweet and beautiful. Um, learning to direct respect, respect. I think that's a big one and trust yourself. Um, You know, just having the courage to do that. I feel if I'm, if I'm completely honest, I feel like this converging path is always just so fragile. Um, um, it's, it's one criticism away from. Going back to the stress path and starting all over, um, you know, so that to me feels like I would love to get to the converging path and live in the converging path for the most part. Um, but I, I do think that, you know, to act bravely and confidently for other people, I am a huge champion of the underdog. I'm always like, what can I do to support you and help you? Um, And so when I can act bravely and confidently for their people, that really feels like the Holy Spirit enabling that growth in me, um, and then delighting and accomplishments instead of second guessing, looking back and say, well, I wish I would have done this instead, just like delighting it. That's that's just a really beautiful piece of that converging path for the, for the type six. So, yeah.

Beth 1:05:51

That's so great. How would you kind of wrap this all up into kind of the personal situation you're in, in the fact that you're stepping out into a whole new world of being a coach, which means you're an entrepreneur. Um, yeah, you've gotten training, but you still have to get out there, right? You still have to set up the business. You have to find clients. You, um, have to hustle. Yeah, you have to do, do the work and the buck stops with you, right? Like there's no principle, there's no other people. There's no, I mean, you have a, a guide from our course, but again, it all kind of lands on you and your own self leadership. So how, how do you see that? Um, scenario. And as we call the Enneagram paths that we were just doing, like your internal GPS, how do you see yourself, you know, getting off track, but how do you see yourself leading yourself with just this situation here? How do you see yourself leading yourself back into a healthy, uh, path for yourself?

Lisa 1:07:01

I think, you know, that last sit, that last sentence talks about act bravely and competently for others. You know, a gospel centered Enneagram really is a gift. for other people. And it's kind of, uh, in society has gotten a bit of a heart or bad rap, you know, for some, uh, not so gospel center views. But I do think, uh, and I, I feel the, the, the, um, I feel the burden of making sure that I do present that as a gospel center. Um, Experience for people, but it is the gift of helping to hold the mirror up so they can see that self awareness. And so it is. Uh, working, having that internal conversation that I have to act bravely and confidently, knowing that what I have to offer as a coach to people who are struggling, like they're living in their stress path, they're living in their blind spot path, that I, I have a gospel centered tool that they can use to find the freedom that comes from self awareness and self knowledge. And so acting bravely and confidently in the delivery of that, knowing that I have something really special to offer people. Um, and that, you know, that feels very much like the converging path for me in this, in this role. Um, so I think the more I walk in that converging path, the more comfortable it will be. And the more I will want to pursue living

Beth 1:08:33

there. Yeah. I mean, it's just really, I mean, it's when you had that type six recently, you were very much able to see how much the Lord has helped you to grow and continuing to grow. And so you get to kind of help your fellow six take a few steps, you know, forward because you've already taken those steps. And And then it just continues to bring courage and wisdom and loyalty and faithfulness and commitment to the path he's already given you, which is what we were talking about at the very beginning, what you're so good at. So I'm really excited just to hear kind of just putting this all together, these aha moments of, okay. By me stepping out in faith, by me having courage, it only has a blessing to others, which is really ultimately what you're about, you know, and so that's really exciting. I'm, I'm assuming you're kind of feeling that same thing as well. Is that right?

Lisa 1:09:34

Yeah, it is kind of just, I guess I hadn't really considered, um, until I'm seeing that last sentence right there, the act bravely and confidently for other people, because that's really what it boils down to is like, um, Being a champion for others and to seeing how, um, that that is actually the behavior of someone who is living a surrendered life to the Lord and a believer when you are surrendered to the Lord. There's no reason to not be confident in that. Right. So

Beth 1:10:04

that's awesome. Okay.

Addressing Internal Messages and Embracing True Security

Beth 1:10:06

The last part of the guide sheet is the internal message. And so this is one of many false messages that pop up in our minds. And so for you as a type six, but I'm going to tell you, this is going to feel absolutely real. You're going to look at me like, but this is true. So your, one of your messages is if I am completely prepared. Have all the bases covered and done all that is expected of me. Then I am okay. Does that feel true? A hundred

Lisa 1:10:38

percent.

Beth 1:10:41

You're probably like, but how is that not true? And then I always tell people us nines, we think, okay, well, if everyone else is happy and okay, then I can be, you know, okay. And it's like, okay, well, no one's ever happy and okay. So that means the nines can never be happy and okay. And it's easy for others to see that. And go, yeah, it's totally false. Like, why would you think that? And yeah, that's so real to us. But here's the thing, like, can you be okay, even if you're not completely prepared or thought of all that could happen? Can you still walk? In a path of bravery and self confidence, um, knowing that God is the one that's going to put the firm foundation in front of you, because ultimately how will you know if you're completely prepared, right? I mean, there is a bazillion options of things to help you. Things will fail. So how do you know you're completely prepared, but yet we do know the one who knows all things, right? Yeah. And so this is. It's an important dynamic because we, we, we will get stuck if we think this is true. So you're going to get stuck. In getting out there and coaching others, if you think you have to have all your bases covered and thought of everything and prepared for that specific client, that nothing's going to go wrong, well, you're going to be, you're going to think of all the things that could go wrong. And then you're going to, I mean, there are a lot of things that could go wrong and. But ultimately, if you're called and you're passionate and he has the firm foundation, you're going to be okay. And so what does that like to kind of hear the false message that feels so true, but also like what truth actually is,

Lisa 1:12:32

I, I, I look at that and I'm like, there's that there's, there's that arrogance, right? Yeah. That goes back to what we were to be. We arrogantly believe like it, it, this feels like a noble statement. Yeah. Yeah. And yet it's

Beth 1:12:47

at its

Lisa 1:12:50

core, it's so profoundly arrogant, right? So it's like, um, you know, as believers, I have, I have, uh, to trust the sovereignty of God and that he's not Up in heaven scrambling because Lisa somehow screwed up his plan A. Yeah, so it's like I am living in God's plan A always and so trusting in that, in that, that means that I don't have to be completely prepared. As I'm saying that, I'm like, that is so, so, so hard. Um, but I think, like I said before, that's, that's the, that's the piece of my heart that I have to lay down every day. And that I don't have to have everything. I don't have to have thought through every scenario. I don't have to have covered all my bases. That I am okay simply because I'm a child of a king. That I can depend on him and trust

Beth 1:13:43

him. And that's the thing is that you, you didn't say, I will be okay. It's I am okay. And I think that's, Ooh, that's the key. That's what you said. That's the key piece. Because he's already. Uh, one, the victory, right? Like he is already secured safety and security now. Yeah. On earth. We don't know from day to day what's going to happen, but ultimately we're safe and secure in him. And so you can be okay right now because of what he's already accomplished. And so that gives you the ability to be brave and strong and courageous. based on what he has already done for you. Yeah,

Lisa 1:14:24

that's so good. I love that.

Beth 1:14:26

Well, Lisa, thank you so much for just being with me today and venturing through this guide sheet. Number one, I hope that it's just brought. Like a fresh new awareness of that. You are okay. And we'll be okay. Moving forward.

Lisa 1:14:41

A lot of hope there for sure.

Beth 1:14:43

Yeah. Thanks, Lisa. Wow. I am so thankful that Lisa was willing to show up today and to be open and transparent and to actually really go there with me in this coaching session. And I'm hoping that you heard how many aha moments that she had and insights for clarity and where she gets stuck, but also the path to move forward. Now, this is what coaching can really be like for clients. They get to have these aha moments for where they're at. Today, where they're stuck, where they're confused and they get the clarity and insights to move forward. Well, like you heard, Lisa is an Enneagram coach certified with us. And so if you would like to hire her as your coach, you can go to my Enneagram coach. com and find Lisa Mitchell. But we also have a plethora of amazing Enneagram coaches there as well. Now, again, if you're an Enneagram enthusiast and you're like, man, I would love to be an Enneagram coach, then get our free mini course to just see what it's like at your enneagram coach.com/minicourse. Well thank you so much for joining me today and don't miss next week. 'cause next week I'm gonna coach a type five and I know you're not gonna wanna miss it. And as always, remember that the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder 'cause it's the gospel that transforms us. Take care and I'll see you in the next episode.