Introduction to Enneagram Coaching

Beth 1:11

Well, have you ever wondered what a real Enneagram coaching session is like? Well, if so stick around, you're going to be able to listen in on one of my coaching sessions with an Enneagram. Type five. And in fact, you will be so amazed what one Enneagram session coaching session is like, because it brings such astonishing clarity and incredible insights to the person that is actually being coached. Hey friend, welcome to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I'm Beth McCord, your Enneagram coach and at YEC, we're passionate about unlocking the transformative power of the Enneagram from a Christian perspective to enrich your life and relationships. And we do this with engaging podcasts. Insightful books and dynamic courses that can all be found at your Enneagram coach. com. There you'll see many tools and resources that can help you establish real and lasting personal growth. But we also train exceptional Enneagram coaches who are ready and equipped to guide you on your own personal journey. You can find your coach at my Enneagram coach. com. But for you guys that are Enneagram enthusiasts, and you're like, I can't stop talking about the Enneagram. Then you might want to consider becoming an Enneagram coach. And we have trained over 2, 500 coaches out there. And if you want to be one of them, then take our free mini course at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course. Now in today's episode, you're in for a treat because I'm going to give you a sneak peek into a real coaching session. And in this session, I'm going to be able to coach a type five. Yep. You're going to listen in on a type five coaching session, or you can watch us on the YouTube channel. And if you are enjoying it, please like, and subscribe and tell everyone else about the podcast. Now, I know many of you, you've been learning about the Enneagram through. Books and blogs and podcasts and YouTube channels. Well, that's exciting. But have you ever sat in on a real coaching session? Have you seen what it's like? Well, today is the perfect day for you to take a look at what a coaching session is like with an Enneagram type five. I asked who would want to volunteer for this. And I got plenty of answers and it was hard to choose, you know, just one for each Enneagram type. But I had to, uh, because you know, the series is going to go for nine weeks, which is really cool. But so today in our episode with an Enneagram type five, I'm going to walk her through our guide sheet. This is the way we train our coaches is to take their clients through the first five sessions with specific guide sheets. So they can explore their type while also being coached in their type. You'll get a sneak peek in what that's like today. Because these guide sheets give our clients a real understanding of what's going on and why they're doing thinking and feeling in particular ways, and then to apply that understanding into their everyday lives. I mean, we all have continual patterns that we get stuck in and we wonder, how am I here again? Well, wouldn't it be great if you really understood why and were able to navigate yourself on a healthier trajectory? Yeah, we all would. Well, listen in today because you will hear us go through the first guide sheet for the Type 5, and you're going to hear her go through her own experience of aha moments, questions, ideas, And a new path forward. Well, let's dive into

Introducing Sharon: A Type Five's Journey

Beth 4:57

it. Let me introduce you to Sharon. Sharon is a mother of four and Mimi to five grandchildren, her and her husband, um, of 35 years. They both recently retired from the oil and gas industry where they both were engineers for 30 years. What is amazing about the Enneagram and coaching is that it is customized to the person you're coaching in the moment. Because your coach is going to be able to help guide you and understanding yourself, your stories, your unique experiences and circumstances, and then to guide you and to help you to discover the right path forward. Well, I could go on and on about coaching and how helpful it is, but let's just dive in. Again, here is my coaching session with Sharon, a Type 5. Hey, Sharon, it's so good to have you here and to walk you through the first guide sheet, um, as a type five. And I'm kind of curious as to, you know, why did you kind of raise your hand to participate in this coaching session?

Sharon 6:05

Um, it was, Oh, Something that I chose to do as a growth thing for myself, because it's not comfortable for me to step out and volunteer for something like this, but I also knew there wouldn't be very many fives that would, because I know how we feel about it. So I, I, um, and also I was just excited to get coached, um, myself because I've never really done that. So, um, I just thought, yeah, I'm going to go for it.

Beth 6:36

And yeah, I love it, but you're right. Not very many fives do sign up for stuff like this. So you are definitely brave and I'm really excited to just dive into this. So what we're going to be doing, um, is I'm going to be taking, like I said, you through, let me kind of get this up so you can see it as well. I'm going to be taking you through the first of five guide sheets that help, um, people explore their type, um, in a more guided way. Um, and so that they can have. More accelerated transformation. So, um, the first, um, part that we're gonna look at is up here. Now, do you prefer to read or do you do better? If

Sharon 7:16

I read, I think if you read

Beth 7:20

it, I would prefer that. Great. Um, so I'll read and then at the end, I'll kind of give you some space. And the best thing is if you can talk about anything that was an aha moment or how that connects to your life, maybe a story, but also if you have questions like, Hey, that word doesn't quite fit, like, you know, I think of it more in this way, like anything like that is going to help you to basically collect the dots as you connect the dots. And as you connect the dots, you're going to be able to have these new neural pathways in your mind that will help you to know when you're veering off your healthiest path, but also when to get back on your healthiest path and how. So don't ever hesitate to say, Oh wait, I've got something I want to put in, you know, like right here. So don't hesitate to stop me. Um, so. On the guide sheet that we have highlighted right here. So, um, is the investigative thinker and for, uh, for you all, you know, you're perceptive, you're insightful, you're intelligent, but you can also be detached and isolated. So it kind of goes from healthy to less healthy. Which of these words really popped up at you and why?

Sharon 8:33

Um, I think when I was first, Okay. Kind of discovering that I was a five and what I really could relate to was the detached part That really resonated with me more of an observer of things than a participant and Which can lead to isolation as well, but also like on the more positive side, I think the insightful I Do you have the ability to kind of, you talked about connecting dots, just kind of like seeing things as they are and then connecting them, um, in a way that makes sense to other people? Um, I, I also kind of gravitated to that too.

Beth 9:24

Yeah, and really detached. Like you said, you know, it can be a positive and a negative thing, right? So, um, detached where you're stepping back and observing everything and really soaking in all the information that's around you can be a really positive thing. But then also Also, there's that detachment where you're like, I need my alone space. No one get around me. And again, part of that's okay. But then there's part of it that can be too isolating. Have you seen that happen for yourself? Like the positive and the negative of detaching?

Exploring the Unattached vs. Detached Mindset

Sharon 9:57

Definitely. And something that's kind of helped me, um, think through that. I, I did some training recently and the, and the trainer, when he was talking about five, he talked about the difference. In being detached and unattached, which is helpful language for me. So to me, unattached is, is. Uh, a strength because you can remain, um, you know, kind of unaffected by what's going on and just sort of see the facts and then put them together in a way that makes sense. Um, that may be more emotional, um, participants can't see or whatever, um, whereas detached is more of a, just a withdrawing. and, um, almost hiding from what's going on and just choosing not to participate at all. Yeah. Um, so I, yes, I definitely have, can see both, both of those things. Um, and I having that awareness now, I, I can kind of be more aware of when I'm going from unattached to detached. Mm-Hmm. and how I've used that just kind of as a defense mechanism in the past.

Beth 11:09

Do you have any particular. Life situations or stories that you can totally see yourself as the unattached versus the detached.

Sharon 11:20

Um, I think in, uh, my job that I used to do, um, I was an engineer for, um, an oil and gas company for 28 years, and, um, I was a project engineer and for most of that time. My ability to to be unattached. Um, I was useful. I was able to kind of identify what types of people and resources were needed for particular projects and then kind of go gather those and bring them all into one, you know, project team. Without feeling, you know, sometimes those things can get very political or, you know, turf wars can happen, things like that. So I, I felt like my ability to sort of be unattached from. In that situation and just sort of see what was needed and bring it together, regardless of personalities and, you know, other things that were going on, I found that useful.

Beth 12:20

Yes, that's so

Sharon 12:21

good. I love it. I would say, yeah, detached, I would say is, uh, I, I see that more in my personal life, just when, you know, I get overwhelmed or things. That may be problems. I can't see a solution for, um, I can see myself just sort of withdrawing and going into, um, you know, just kind of back into my head into,

Beth 12:48

um,

Sharon 12:49

my own fantasy world or whatever, and not dealing with what's going on.

Beth 12:56

Yeah, no, I love those are really great examples of the unattached and detached and, you know, I was told by someone, you know, like your ER doctor, you know, you want them to be able to unattach. Right. And that gets so wrapped up in emotions. And in fact, if you can like give me a type nine, some of that unattachment, I would be so grateful. It's so hard for me. That's, you know, my inclination is to, you know, connect, connect and merge. And so I'm going to have to ponder on that myself and just go, okay, so I need to. Unattached, which isn't being unloving. And in fact, it can be very helpful. So I love that terminology. That's so, so good.

Diving Deep into Type Five's Core Motivations

Beth 13:37

Um, okay. So let's dive into the next part on the guide sheet, and this is the core motivations of your type and the core motivations are really the driving force behind why you think, feel, and behave in particular circumstances, situations that you're in. So the core fear is what you're always running away from, or you're trying to prevent from happening. And for you as a type five, the core fear is being annihilated, invaded, not existing, being thought of as incapable or ignorant, having obligations placed upon you and your energy being depleted. Now, the core desire is what. You are like, man, if I just had this life would be full and satisfied. And for you as a type five, it's being knowledgeable, capable and competent. And then the core weakness is kind of like your Achilles heel, the thorn on your side, the thing that keeps tripping you up all the time. And that for five is avarice. Now avarice usually means kind of greedy with money. But in the Enneagram, what it's speaking to is that you're feeling like, um, that you lack inner resources and that too much interaction with others will lead to catastrophic depletion. Therefore, you're going to withhold yourself from contact from, um, others in the world. And you're going to like. Hoard or hold onto your inner resources, um, and minimize your needs, but your core longing, the message, your heart longs to hear is your needs are not a problem. So after kind of going through those four core motivations, what really pops out to you and why, and it can be any or all of them, or it can be a connection of them, or even a story that like, Oh my gosh, I can see the whole thread go through all of the core motivations.

Sharon's Personal Reflections and Growth

Sharon 15:23

Um, definitely the, um, having obligations placed upon me and the fear of being my energy being depleted through that, um, that's something that I, I can definitely relate to. I am married to a type eight and he is very, um, spontaneous and just, you know, always going a million miles an hour and has. A thousand projects going at a time and, um, needing help here and there with things that just, you know, when he and I start a project together, it's, um, you know, I want to have a spreadsheet. I want to have all the materials like listed out and every step, you know, planned out ahead of time because I want to spend the least amount of energy on it. I want to make the most, the least amount of trips to the store, all the things, um, to get the stuff. Yeah. You know, while I'm making my spreadsheet, he's already like, you know, busted out a wall or, you know, or whatever. And so like that can, that can feel scary to me sometimes just, um, Oh, if I, I didn't plan for that. And, um, am I going to have enough energy to get through this? I can, that part of it, I can really. Definitely relate to, um, the being knowledgeable, capable, and competent, um, I definitely like to be seen that way, um, I don't, I don't relate to, I mean, I'm not, I'm okay with saying I don't know something or, um, but usually, and again, this, I think I kind of learned this through my own experience. My job, but, um, but always, but I will go find, I'll go find it out or I'll go find the person who does know it. So, I never felt like I needed to know all the things, but, um, because I knew I had the ability to find the person who did know it and. Kind of bring them into the situation or whatever. So, um, that is something that's definitely important to me. Um,

Beth 17:47

What is it? What is it like to go into something not knowing and possibly even being ignorant? Like, what does that stir up within you?

Sharon 17:59

Um, I don't like it. I mean, I'm getting better at that. And that's kind of where some of my Uh, growth. Uh, definitely my growth path is being able to enter a situation and I would say this is, you know, I mentioned being married to an eight. Um, I, I have learned from the eights and I have, you know, sevens in my life too. And just people who are willing to just start something and figure it out as they go. Um, and I am learning to lean into that more where. Just have enough self confidence to know that I don't need to know everything that's going to happen when I go into a situation I'm just gonna I can figure it out as I go and the other piece that I've learned about that About myself it and it kind of goes back to the unattached and detached thing is that? By being so prepared all the time and not willing to do anything that you're not prepared for, there's no vulnerability in that and therefore there's no connection with other people. Wow. And so if I am interested in really connecting with other people, then I have to be willing to not know all the answers and make some mistakes and maybe have to apologize or whatever now.

Beth 19:23

Yeah. Because everything you're saying, I'm like, man, that is so, so spot on and such a great viewpoint from a healthy, uh, type five, who's really kind of probably gone through, you know, seasons of life before, right? Like experienced a lot of things and had to learn in some ways the hard way. Um, but would you have said that in your early thirties, would this have been true for you then? Do you see her, like, if you look back, are you like, oh no, she was really afraid. She had to know all the answers. What was she like? Yeah.

Sharon 19:59

She definitely was afraid. I, when I initially started learning about the Enneagram and kind of reading about the different numbers and stuff, I actually thought for a while that I was a three. Because of, um, I really could relate to the shape shifting, kind of becoming whoever I needed to be in a certain situation. Um, and the fear of being discovered and, you know, that maybe if people knew who I really was or what I was really like, they wouldn't like me. Once I learned that I was a five, I realized that that was all. Because of the fear of appearing incompetent that I didn't know enough. Um, and so I was, I became good at just becoming what I needed to be in each situation or whatever. So I, I was way more like that when I was younger. Um, yeah. Out of, you know, that fear of just. Being seen as not knowing what I was doing or up to the challenge or whatever. So,

Beth 21:04

right. Yeah. And I love that because I, I, when I'm working with clients, I want them to see that though, there are going to be aspects of their type that, you know, Are not helpful. In fact, they can actually be harmful. The Enneagram is on a spectrum of health to unhealth. And really the goal is to be able to see and acknowledge and own when we're not at our best in, in a way that's not shaming or condemning, but in a way that is nonjudgmental. And it's like, Just owning it, right? But then being able to move forward in the path that's actually healthy for your personality type. And I love how you're wording that because I can see that's exactly how you've taken it, that this is an opportunity to understand the fuller version of yourself and then to move in the direction that's really healthy for five, which is learning To, to step out when you don't know everything and make mistakes and to be brave and courageous. Um, and we'll get into that when we get to the backside of this guide sheet. Um, but I just want to say that that's just really, really helpful. Could you speak though to the core longing?

The Impact of Core Longings on Type Five

Beth 22:15

Your needs are not a problem. How was that when you were younger, maybe manifested? And then what is it like for you now?

Sharon 22:24

Um, I've actually I've learned a lot about this in the last year, just, um, my sister and I have had some conversations about just like our childhood and kind of what messages we got there and all of that. And what I realized through those conversations is that, um, because of the way that I'm wired, my parents were very, um, like, you know, just You figure it out on your own. We didn't talk a lot about emotions or what was going, you know, you just, you buckle down, you figure it out or whatever, which recognizing how that landed on me so differently than it did on my sister, um, because I was already wired for withdrawal and figuring things out in my head and just kind of going to that place. Um, That actually kind of worked for me and it just sort of, um, you know, reinforced what already felt comfortable for me. So, and for her, she, you know, it was a very different experience for her. So, uh, you know, that's helped me to realize that that whole, your needs are not a problem. Like I did somewhere along the way that kind of got ingrained in me that like, You don't tell you, you don't ask for help. You don't, um, put your needs on other people and you figure it out. You, um, everybody, you know, somebody's always got it worse than you do. So, um, you know, so I just kind of, um, I definitely have seen that in my life. Even with, um, I would say with more, like more aggressive numbers that are more vocal about, um, Issues that they're having or whatever. I very much internalize that as well. You know, I don't have it that bad or I, you know, I can figure this out on my own because they're clearly going through something out, you know, whatever that looks like. And so, yeah, I can definitely. Um, relate to that, but also that's kind of been one of my things that I've recognized through the, through the work I've been doing so far with the Enneagram is that, um, and I think I've heard this said about fives in general, it's just that there's a, we have so much going on in our heads that I realized that I, there were so many things that I just assumed that people know. Um, and what's important to me that I've never actually said out loud because I've had this conversation going in my head for so long and all these things that I'm like, Oh, everybody else must know. Obviously knows this about me, right? It's like, never actually said that to anyone. I never actually expressed that. That's what I need or, um, but that's important to me. So I can't expect them to know that. Um, so I've tried to be more aware of that and start doing, saying things out loud more.

Beth 25:34

Yeah. And what's it like when either a person can come through for you to, you know, obviously. From a human's perspective and pretty much communicate your needs aren't a problem. Like, you know, I'm here for you or ultimately how God is like, I'm the king of the universe. Your needs are not a problem. And I delight in helping you. Um, how did those land on your type five heart?

Sharon 25:58

It feels good, but it also feels uncomfortable.

Embracing Vulnerability and Connection

Sharon 26:03

Because it's, I think it goes back to that vulnerability thing, because it's not just admitting to somebody else that maybe you need help or you need, you know, you can't do it all yourself, but it's admitting it to yourself. And so it's kind of going back to that, Oh, what if? What if this gets out of control? You know, I think

Beth 26:24

again, I feel like it goes back to the core fear, right? You know, like that you're, you're not going to have enough. You might, you know, not, um, your energy will be depleted, you know? And so it kind of piggybacks, it sounds like, would you agree?

Sharon 26:40

Yes. Yeah. It's almost like a snowball feeling. Like the more you lean into it. The more you're going to need it and then and then what happens when it's not there when you need it, you know kind of Thinking so I am able to kind of like catch myself in that now and yeah Recognize it when it's happening, but it is still very much. It is still very uncomfortable and I think my tendency is still to Like be thankful, but also, um, I don't know, just not get too comfortable

Beth 27:19

with it. I don't know. Yeah. Maybe still be independent or autonomous just in case. Yeah. Have a backup plan.

Sharon 27:25

And yeah, I don't know. I, I recognize it's going to, it just takes more practice. Oh,

Beth 27:30

sure. Well, and I, I love the quote from Joseph Campbell and he said the cave you feared to enter holds the treasure you seek. And. I know, you know, for all the types, you know, we have this cave, like, oh, I know on the other side, it'd be really great if I could grow in this, but it feels so scary to enter, but when we do, and we keep doing it from time to time to time, it gets more easy and not that it will ever, you know, be super simple, um, but we grow in it. It sounds like, you know, you've really taken strides in moving towards. My knees are not a problem and first and foremost, God's got me, but I also have other people in my life that it's not a problem for them. They're there. They're there. They'll take my back. Um, and so I'm really excited for you because it sounds like you're really already on that path. I think sometimes people that just start off with the Enneagram, they almost can't even conceptualize what it. the core longing could actually feel and have that experience. So I'm really excited that you've had moments like that. Cause I think once you have a taste or you at least connect the dots to when you felt that it gives you a clear path of what it could be like moving forward.

Sharon 28:41

Um, I would say just, I would say that it, it gives you enough, um, glimpses of it to want to continue to seek it out, even though it's very uncomfortable. Because there are times that I just, you know, I joke with, like, my daughter is a three, and she would always tease me about, like, not having feelings and stuff, and I'm, When she, we figured out she's a three, I'm like, huh, what's that like? But also, yeah, so it's kind of like there are times when I'm like, yeah, I've tried the feeling thing. It's not for me. I'm going back to my mind castle. No thanks. But yeah, I would say that it, it does provide enough of a glimpse into how good it can be that it makes it worth continuing through the discomfort and, and keep trying.

Beth 29:32

Yeah, I love that. Okay, so let's move to the next section. And this section is just a real overview of the type five from healthy qualities to less healthy qualities and even some redeeming aspects. So I'll read this and I might just read three paragraphs and we'll take a pause and see if you have any insights or aha moments and then I'll read the rest. Does that sound okay? Okay. So despite your insatiable thirst for thinking and knowing you experience the world as an intrusive and overwhelming place, feeling that life demands too much of you, you focus your attention on conserving your energy and resources to avoid a sense of catastrophic depletion. This sense Are this intense desire to hoard and control your environment can damage your relationships as you can become extremely private and emotionally distant when navigating life apart from Christ. You fear that not knowing or being enough coupled with your desire for independence causes you to withdraw, isolate and. Emotionally become distant. You often feel that you must know everything before sharing your insights and fear feeling incompetent, which overwhelms you and causes you to retreat.

Navigating the Unknown: A Type Five's Challenge

Beth 30:51

So we've kind of touched on some of these parts already, but anything that really stands out, um, that maybe you have a story or connection to,

Sharon 31:02

um, I think definitely that you feel that you must know everything before sharing your thoughts. Um, And inside, what is that like? Um, and fear, feeling incompetent. Um, I, I've shared this, so I lead like a small group in my, um, in my church and I've, I've shared this with my group before. It just encouragement for them to, because you know, we're asking like a group of women who don't necessarily know each other to come to a strange house, to meet together, to talk about. God and other vulnerable things that can be difficult, you know? And so just in, out of encouragement, I've shared with them that like every single week, um, I. Would rather people not come. Like, I reckon you like, you know, because again, like I'm inviting people. I don't know who's going to show up. I don't know how many people will be there. I don't know what questions are going to come up. And I'm, I know I'm not going to know the answer to all of them. There's going to be things I can't relate to. Um, or there might be nobody there. So like, there's just this whole host of unknowns that just feel really uncomfortable to me because I would much rather just. Know all the things ahead of time and be able to predict. you know, what's going to happen and be able to prepare. But also I can recognize that and then just, and do it anyway and trust that God is going to bring the people there who need to be there. He's going to give me the words to say that I need to say, and that it's also okay to say that I don't know. Um, so that, you know, I can definitely relate to that. One thing that I think has been helpful for me, um, to recognize is that in the language of the Enneagram and kind of how we're wired a certain way, um, is that I don't need to spend a lot of time feeling bad about that being my initial response because I can just recognize that, you know what, that's always going to be my initial response, but I still get to choose how I'm going to respond. Move forward from that regardless of what my initial response was and so that's that's really been helpful for me, too. So Yeah, so that's you know, again, that's just a situation where it's like It's very uncomfortable for me to invite people into my space and not know what's going to happen. But also yeah Choosing to push through that and do it anyway has been very, you know, every single time I do it, I'm blessed by what happens. And, you know, I'm always glad I did it. Um, and

Beth 33:51

yeah, well, it sounds like, and we're not going to get into it in this guide sheet, but I wanted to bring it up is it sounds like the type six. Is really chiming in, in these moments, like I need to prepare and predict. And, and then the five is like, yeah, let me gather some more information or yeah. It's uncomfortable. Let's bail, you know, let's go isolate. And so the two of them are kind of tag teaming together. Um, but I also hear like the type four, like, no, I want to. Create a beautiful space for people to share and come together. Um, and then of course, and we'll get to this on the backside, you know, the seven part of your heart is like, it's going to be okay. Like when we have fun, when we do it, like just, just trust me, like let's do it. And then the seven and then the eight, of course, it's just, you know. I'm going to do it. You know, they just go for it. Um, does that feel accurate? Like almost a full picture of what's going on?

Sharon 34:42

Yeah, I think

Embracing Learning and Listening

Sharon 34:43

so. And, and then the other part that I'm sort of trying to lean into, because I think that needing to be so prepared all the time also keeps me from being able to learn from other people and listen to what's really going on, because always having that mindset of, Oh, well I need, you know, if somebody says something, I need to be able to respond. In a way that, you know, sounds like I know what I'm talking about or whatever, versus just being able to sit back and listen and let things unfold and learn for myself and hear some things that maybe I've never heard before. Um, so giving myself that kind of breathing room to do that. Um, yeah. It's something I'm trying to lean into more as well. Yeah. It's again, uncomfortable.

Beth 35:33

Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, that, and that's just a really important word, uncomfortable.

Navigating Retirement and New Beginnings

Beth 35:37

Um, as we get into this next part, I like for you to think, cause we, you know, we'd had this, you know, talk before about that you and your husband are now retired and you're on, you know, the precipice of a new era of your life and even a move. And so there's a lot of unknowns. In that by itself. And so I'd love to, as we go through the rest of this guide sheet, really kind of hone in on the uncomfortable feelings that you're having there. The, um, the awareness, the observation that you're having around you, um, moments that you're being unattached in a good way, but also detached, um, how your husband might be going for it as a type eight. And you're like, Whoa, This is too much, too fast, too quick. Um, so as we kind of go through the rest, I'd love for you to kind of just keep that in the back of your mind so we can kind of see if there's anything, any parts of it that you've been feeling stuck in and you want a little bit of insight or breakthrough. Does that, is that okay? Mm hmm. Yep. Great. Okay. So here's the last three paragraphs. So this desire for knowledge independence and a life free from obligations can strain your relationship with connection since connection feelings and vulnerability are natural components to a healthy partnership. You see the demands of living in relationship with others and distance yourself because you feel ill equipped. Uh, to meet them, you feel the confidence to, sorry, you feel, yeah, you think the confidence to engage with others will eventually come, but never feel that you have enough knowledge or resources to enter into the mysterious and complex world of another person. Fortunately, your heart is in line with the gospel. When you discover that your needs are not a problem to Christ and he completely fulfills these for you. You can become more generous. Uh, with giving yourself, um, yeah, giving yourself, uh, you begin living not just from your head, but your heart and the whole of you, um, of who you are. That gift coupled with your great vision and perspective, perspective, nature reflects the true wisdom of God. So how does all of that come through in what you're experiencing now through some of the. Um,

Sharon 38:13

so I think what's difficult for me right now is just, again, there's a lot of unknowns. Uh, we're trying to move to a new location. Um, I've been retired for four, almost five years, but my husband just retired like seven months ago. So I've kind of been in a Figuring out what's important to me and kind of what I might be interested in going forward. Um, Mode myself, but he's just kind of starting on that journey I mean he has a lot of ideas and anything he wants to do but as far as like how to you know, Make that happen and logistically and all that still kind of figuring that out And we're also trying to move and um waiting for our house to sell on all these things. And so for me, um, I'm realizing that my tendency is because I can't, there's a lot, a lot of those pieces that are out of my control. Um, so there's no way for me to know how they're going to play out and how much energy it's going to take and how much, you know. All the steps that are involved, my tendency is to just want to withdraw. I just want to, like, stay home, don't go anywhere, don't talk to anybody, until I have more information, and then I can move forward with, you know, whatever, but I don't. You know, in the meantime, there's a lot of, you know, that could be weeks, it could be months, um, there's so much life there that could be lived that I would be missing out on if I do that. And so for me, I think the daily challenge and especially now in this season is just staying engaged in the moment. In the present, not needing to know what's going to happen next week or month, but hey, what's something I can do today, right now, um, to just, you know, have a good day and be engaged with the people around me and, um, you know, stay connected. Um, that's, that's my current challenge, I think.

Beth 40:23

And do you.

Identifying Personal Rumble Strips

Beth 40:25

Do you have, um, I called a rumble strip on the highway, you know, where you start to find yourself detaching or becoming uncomfortable, um, moving away from people instead of unattaching and connecting. Do you have moments where. You've almost kind of inserted in your mind a rumble strip where it's like, Oh, when, when I hear these thoughts in my head, when I'm experiencing these things, that is my alert system that I'm starting to detach. I'm starting to isolate. I'm getting uncomfortable. Um, and I need to kind of turn the wheel into the healthier direction. And if so, what would some of those kind of alert systems be for you?

Sharon 41:08

I think a big one for me is when, um, my husband. My kids, um, my friends, any of, if I'm invited to do something and I am very quick with a no, um, you know, I, I have learned to like take a step back and just kind of think about like, okay, why are you saying no to that? Is there really a reason for that? Or, um, You know, I think some of it's just my, you know, the introverted nature, um, but that's kind of, that's a rumble strip for me is when it's a quick, harsh, whatever, no,

Beth 41:54

yeah, that's great. Um,

Sharon 41:56

yeah. And then I think also like just. becoming sort of sarcastic and snarky about, um, things or, you know, things that are going on or just, um, that's just, I think that's a indicator to me that, um, you know, think things are starting to feel out of control and I'm. It's almost a way to distance myself, I guess, from the situation and make light of it or whatever. So those are indicating, you know, and then again, that's become a rumble strip for me to say, okay, why am I responding this way to this? What is it about it that's really bugging me? And so I would say those are the kind

Beth 42:39

of the two big ones that Yeah, those are great. Those are really, really good. Okay.

Understanding Enneagram Paths and Personal Growth

Beth 42:45

So on the backside, we have the Enneagram paths and I'll actually, I'm going to go ahead and put them all up for us to kind of go through. So those that aren't watching this on YouTube, there are four boxes. Um, the one on the left hand side is the stress path, which fives moved to seven when they're under stress. So they take on some of the average, the unhealthy qualities or aspects of In characteristics of a seven, they don't become a seven, but they'll take on some of these aspects. Uh, the blind spot path is when the type five is still kind of struggling, but mainly at home or possibly with a close friend. Um, they're going to take on some of the average, the unhealthy aspects of the type eight, but then you start moving into the growth path. And this is where you move from the type five into the healthy side of type eight. And then the last one is the converging path. So this is where your healthy five, your healthy eight part and your healthy seven all come together. So I'm going to go through these and then I'd love for you to highlight how these kind of show up and maybe how they show up in this particular season of life. That would be kind of cool to kind of hear. Where you can almost predict them coming up. So as a type five, when you're under stress, you're going to find yourself taking on some of the average, the unhealthy aspects of seven, and you might become talkative or scattered, restless, um, hyperactive. Um, you take on too many new projects. Impulsively you overbook your schedule with, uh, fascinating experiences and the interest you have, and you can become impatient and. More, um, erratically learning everything at a free rush pace. Um, so when does that kind of pop up for you?

Sharon 44:28

Um, for me, this most often shows up as, um, so one of the, the things that, you know, kind of the dance, like you guys talk about between my husband and me being a five and an eight, um, is just this. His having all the energy to do all the things and my not, um, you know, that can become a, in the past has, has looked like my feeling like maybe I'm lazy or, you know, why, why don't I want to do more things and that sort of thing. And so what this can look like is if I'm being asked to do something that maybe I. Don't want to or I don't understand or I'm not comfortable with like I can just start doing a lot of things that aren't necessarily Useful or helpful or whatever, but they're easy to do. So in my I think it's like in my desire to look busy. So I can point to things and say, Oh, look at all these things I did. And even to the extent, like, um, an example would be like with finance stuff, or maybe, um, I'm being asked to look at, look into something that I don't really know much about. And, you know, then, And then I'll just, I'll start going down rabbit holes and spending all this time and energy on, you know, Oh, what's the best, you know, like there's 50 apps out there on how to manage, you know, your finances. So let me go read about every single one of them so I can find the absolute best one. And, you know, just things like that, going down rabbit holes, just spending a lot of time researching things that aren't really helpful, all of that. So that's, that's kind of how that shows up for me, just almost like a nervous. Energy. Yeah. Well, as long as I'm doing something, even if it's not Valuable. Yeah. At least I can say I'm being busy, you know?

Beth 46:29

Right, right. And so that would be another. Oh,

Sharon 46:32

sorry. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say that's what it looks like for

Beth 46:34

me usually. Yeah. And that will be another great rumble strip. So especially as you guys get ready for this move and all these things, when that nervous energy pops up or you're feeling like, well, I can't look lazy, you know, because I'm gathering all this information, you know, just kind of. Unattaching yourself, looking at what's going on and reorienting yourself with actually what's going on and what needs to happen, what doesn't need to happen, what's truth and what's not truth. And so that would be really beneficial to, you know, just kind of pause in that moment. Now the blind spot path, what this looks like, um, this is especially around, like I said, family. We call the blind spot path because People are like, I don't do that and then the family is looking over at the person like, uh, yeah So fives will move to the average the unhealthy parts of eight now, this isn't all the time This is just you know, maybe when you're not doing so well You're gonna assert your boundaries forcefully and confront anyone who displeases you you'll become feisty Provocative and argue or debate when facts aren't true Um, and then you're going to arrogantly interject your thoughts and opinions. Do these ever show up?

Sharon 47:44

Yes. Um, yeah, I mean, I think like the feisty provocative part, I would say, like I mentioned earlier, just becoming sarcastic and kind of snarky about some things that, um, Asserting my boundaries again, like I, I feel like most of the time I am not particularly attached to a certain, um, way of thinking about certain things. Like I have my opinions, but I also am able to see, um, you know, different viewpoints and why those are important. And, you know, at least acknowledge, I understand why you feel that way, that sort of thing. So I can see myself. When I see myself moving into an area of just like, this is the way it is and you know, and just sort of clinging to and becoming adamant about doing things a certain way, um, I definitely can see myself in that space, you know, when I, when I get that way about things and again, I think, and a lot of it again is. Um, and I'm just feeling out of control, like things are happening around me that there's nothing I can do about. And so I kind of like grasp onto something that like, okay,

Beth 49:02

this is the way it needs to be done. Is it true that you would probably only do these things around the family or the people that you kind of let your hair down? You're not going to just be doing this on like on an average day out there?

Sharon 49:15

Yes. Yeah, because I feel more comfortable in those situations. And again, like. To, to act that way in public, um, would, would not be attractive, I guess. Um, and, and might be seen as just, you know, not, again, kind of back to that competence thing. Like, um, in the way that I, you know, that I want to be seen by people, that's not how I would want to be seen. And so I would. I tend to keep it under wraps, I guess.

Beth 49:51

Yeah, I love that.

The Power of Healthy Enneagram Paths

Beth 49:53

Okay, well, moving to the positive side. So as you're growing, you're going to move to some of the, um, healthy aspects of type eight. So we just talked about the less healthy, but you also grow in healthy ways. The eight can really help you in many aspects. And so you can become more self confident, assertive and decisive. You become more. Active with your body, connecting your thoughts with your emotions and your gut instincts, and you're going to trust your instincts becoming more bold and quicker to take action. So does this kind of ring true for you as well?

Sharon 50:26

Yes. Um, I, I definitely can see tendencies in myself. Um. To be kind of, you know, doing repressed, like I can plan things to the nth degree and never actually start doing them. And so I definitely see that as a, um, a growth path, uh, and again, like, you know, I've talked about my husband a lot, but I've also learned from him, you know, and been able to, to, Um, move into this growth path on some things by watching him, but yeah, maybe I don't knock out the wall before I start doing something, but it's okay to start without knowing all the steps ahead of time and what it's going to look like. I do have the ability to figure it out as I go. Yeah. Yeah.

Beth 51:13

Well, that's what I was going to say. So like type fives, they really know a lot of information. And so a lot of times I'm like, Hey, just take on some of that eight energy, that healthy eight energy and take a confident step forward. Cause you probably know a lot more than you actually realize, and that you're more capable than you ever thought. And so if you just take that step and see it happen, is that true? Yes. Yeah. And then you're learning from your type seven friends, right? Like, and that's what we'll go to in the converging path. Um, but I'm sorry, you were going to say,

Sharon 51:44

well, yeah, just again, like I know enough about myself now to know that I can, I can go find the resources to do it. If I, if I don't have, you know, the ability, um, or the competence in an area that I can go find it. And that gives me the. The confidence to kind of figure it out as I go versus needing to know what the whole thing is going to look like ahead of time. And just the hard part of that for me, again, is being present in the moment. Getting out of my own head. The part about becoming more active with your body and connecting. Yes. Your thoughts with your emotions and gut instincts. Um, the other part of the kind of description of a five that I really, um, relate to is Not feeling my emotions in the moment, but thinking about them later, um, and trying to, and that's kind of, you talked about the rumble strips, that's something I'm trying to get better at recognizing at the time, like, why am I responding this way? What am I feeling now? Um. Right now, instead of just waiting to kind of think about it later. So, um, I, I can definitely have a, yeah, and that helps to bring me into the present, into the moment, what's really going on and experiencing it with everyone, not as an

Beth 53:10

observer. Right. Because that's the connection. That's so good. I love that insight. Um,

Converging Paths: Embracing a Fuller Life

Beth 53:16

okay. So then the converging path. So this is going to your healthiest, um, part, cause you're using a healthy five, healthy eight part, and now the healthy seven's coming in. And this is where you enjoy life more trusting God. Um, is kind and life is full of purpose and meaning you're going to participate in more spontaneous, exciting and full life with others. And you're going to become more physically active to allow energy to flow and experience the lighter side of life. Does that feel true?

Sharon 53:47

Yes. Um, that's it. It feels true that that's where I want to go.

Beth 53:52

That's what I want to be. And that's why it's the converging path. Cause it's like. You know, but have you experienced, even if it's a glimmer of that feeling in that moment?

Sharon 54:03

Yeah, I think probably the place where I've, um, been most intentional about it and, and felt that it's, it's worthwhile to do it is probably with my grandkids. Just, um, you know, putting aside my, my phone and other things and just being willing to just sit there with them while they play and being involved in, you know, going out. Kicking the soccer ball around or whatever that looks like. Um, yeah. And just not having to overthink like, what's the value in this? You know, just like, go and do it and enjoy it and have fun and let that be the, the experience. Um, yeah. I don't have to think about it later. I don't have to think. Right. You know, like, think about it ahead of time. Just do it. Yeah. Um, the becoming more physically active, um, that's an area I really have to. Be intentional about because I am very comfortable just being still Yeah. Um, I think it just, I don't know, it just feels good. It feels, um, it's not even. It's not a physical energy thing. It's more like a emotional energy of just being still and not, you know, calm and all of those things. I love it. Yeah. And so, you know, it's that inertia thing. Like once you get going into that motion, um, is. Can be tough

Beth 55:33

sometimes. So, Oh, as a nine, I hear you. I'm sure. Yeah. Okay. So the last part we're going to go over real quickly is the internal message. So we have lots of false messages that are kind of like on this record player, you know, and it's kind of like a broken record player and it's playing in the background all the time. And we think it's true, um, but it's actually not. So the type fives message is if I master a body of knowledge, then I'm okay. Does that feel true? And usually people are like, yeah, it is true. Like how is that? Right. And then I'm like, well, as this type nines, ours is, if everyone else is good and okay, then I can be good and okay. And as we know, nobody's good. Okay. So then the nine can never be good. And okay. So they're really false messages. They kind of. Get you thinking you can actually obtain the thing when in actuality, you know, when does the body of knowledge end? Right? Like, especially with the internet and all the things that we have now, like you'll never have a full body of knowledge. And so you'll keep traveling down the rabbit hole and never being present in the moment or actually going and doing things kind of like the high side of eight and seven, like we were talking about. Um, and so this would be another rumble I would, um, suggest just kind of. pondering this week of like, when do I feel like I can move forward if I have more information or I have to feel competent before I do, that would be similar to this kind of message. And so I would just really take the time as you're In this new direction of life, because there's a lot of information you do need to gather and process through, but also think about, okay, well, what is the first step I can take, even if I don't have all the plans, um, and your husband will be great in helping you to do that. Um, yeah, but I hope that this and kind of the rest of the guide sheet has been helpful for you to kind of really take a step back and process. You know, how the whole of you, so not just the type five, but also, you know, the seven, the eight, we talked a little bit about your wings, um, the six and the four, how they all come in and play a part. But of course, the type five truly reigns supreme. Has this been helpful for you? And like, what has come to mind that might be a little bit of an aha moment to move forward?

Sharon 57:54

Yes, this has definitely been helpful. Um, and. Just again, just, um, validating some of the things I've already been thinking about that, um, I need to focus on, um, to kind of move towards that growth path and that converging path. Um, I would say like the internal message of if I master a body of knowledge, then I am okay. Um, You know, I hear, I hear fives talk about, um, going really deep on particular subjects and things like that. For me, it's almost more like not going deep on any one thing, but just like having a vast, you know, knowing a little bit about a lot of things so that no matter what comes up, I can at least seem like I know what's going on or enough to, um, and. What, even with like the, you know, the coaching and learning more about the Enneagram, my first instinct, you know, like I got so much out of it for myself, just kind of initially that my first instinct was, Oh, well now I need to go and share this with other people and start showing them how they can use this in their lives. But at some point I realized. I also need to do my own work. I also need to go deeper and find my own growth through it. That's how I can be most helpful to other people and most effective in kind of getting them, you know, getting that message out there. But like, I really, I Totally just skipped over that step at first. It's like, yeah, yeah. You know, like, okay, I know enough about this that I can kind of run with it and help other people. Cause there is, you know, that initial understanding there's something valuable in that, but the real heart of it and what's most valuable, I can't help people with that until I do that, that work right. So, so, um, that's, that's been kind of my aha about all of this is just. Yeah, I need to do my own work and yeah, that's what we're doing here. Like, yeah, and that's what

Beth 1:00:09

coached. Right. And that's what I love about the Enneagram and coaching is I learn just as much from my clients and, and watching them process and learn and have their aha moments. I'm starting to connect the dots and I'm hearing their story unfold and it's inspiring. to continue to unfold my own story and use and watch them as an example to do my own work as well. Cause yeah, we can only take people so far or as far as we've taken ourselves. Right. So it is really important that, um, us coaches do our own work and never think like the. The work's never done. Um, we'll definitely get better or things will get a little bit easier, but we're still going to go into those common pitfalls. Um, but the, this kind of information and going over it time and time again can just help us to not go there and to stay on our healthier path. So, um, Well, thank you so much for being open and vulnerable. I know as a type five, it's not always easy. Um, but you did a really brave thing. You moved into your eight and you were like, I'm going to do this thing. And then the seven is like, it's going to be fun. And I hope that when you leave, you're like, Oh, that really was fun. I may not have wanted to show up, but it really was fun. Um, But I know this is going to be such a blessing to everyone that got to hear from a type five, being open and vulnerable and using Enneagram coaching for their own, um, internal process and growth. So thank you so much for just being vulnerable.

Sharon 1:01:42

It was fun. I enjoyed it.

Beth 1:01:44

Good, good. All right. Thanks. Well, I'm so thankful for Sharon being so open and allowing us to see a real coaching session today. And I'm sure you guys really learned a lot about not only the type bias, but really how Enneagram coaching functions because In our Enneagram coaching sessions, our clients get to have these real aha moments and connect the dots with their life story and why they do what they do to help them to know what the best path forward is. Well, at your Enneagram coach, we have plenty of amazing certified Enneagram coaches that we've trained. And if you're looking to get your own personal coach, we highly recommend that you go to my Enneagram coach. com. And in fact, Sharon is one of our coaches, and I would love for you to reach out and to find Sharon in our coaches directory at my Enneagram coach. com and hire her as your coach. Coach. And if you're listening today and you feel so inspired that you would like to become an Enneagram coach as well, then great. Take our free mini course as your first step. And you can get that free mini course at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash mini course. Well, thanks for spending time with me today. And I hope today's session enabled you to have a positive outlook and hope of what real Enneagram coaching is all about. I'm excited for you guys to listen in on the next coaching session where I'm going to coach a type four. So come back and take a sneak peek in what a real coaching session is like with a type four. And as always remember the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder because it's the gospel that transforms us. Thanks guys. Take care and I'll see you in the next episode.