Beth: 0:00

Hey everyone. Welcome to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I'm Beth McCord, your Enneagram coach. Now we're doing a really unique series and it's me interviewing nine types of moms. And today you're going to hear from type one moms and what their journey is like in being a principled reformer as a type one, the highs and the lows and everything in between moms out there. Have you ever wished. You could be with other people that understand you. I mean like really understand you. Well, that's what this is all about. So often we read books or hear speakers or get advice from people that are not of our same Enneagram type. And it just misses the mark. They don't get us. And then we feel either guilty or shame or not validated and understood. So this summer we put something together really unique and amazing. And it's Enneagram for mom cohorts and registration is open right now this week. And So May 6th to May 13th. Now the groups are going to start June 10th, the week of June 10th, all the way to the week of July 29th. There are nine types, right? But there is a morning cohort for each and an evening cohort. So you can pick which one fits you best, but here's the thing. There are only 25 spots. So if you're interested, you got to jump in as soon as possible to get your spot. And we're doing this over eight weeks with a certified coach leading the way you'll have a private Facebook group so that you can carry on the conversation and the relationships with the people in your group. And there's going to be so many other fun bonuses that you're going to get again, don't miss out. Well, this comes on the forefront of another really big thing that we have going on, which is my new Enneagram book, Enneagram for Moms releasing on July 9th. You can pre order it right now at any of the retailers out there that, that sell books. And then you'll want to go to Enneagram for moms. com and let us know that you already bought the book because there's a lot of free goodies that you can get. So go check that out. So today's episode is me talking with three type one moms. This gives you a little sneak peek of what those cohorts are going to be like. We're going to be able to talk authentically and about the highs, the strengths of the type one. But also some of the struggles that maybe a type one mom wouldn't normally talk about or share. And this can be very validating for those that are type one moms out there, but also it can help those that are not type one moms to better understand what they're going through. So let's jump in right now and listen in to our comp, my conversation with the type one moms. All right. So here we are with two type ones. And, uh, one of the type ones that was going to be here, she had an emergency, so she's not here, but we still got to type one here today. So why don't you guys go ahead and introduce yourselves, uh, for everyone.

Alyssa: 3:19

Okay. My name is Alyssa Ramsey and I am married to my husband, Ryan. We have two children. Um, my son is 12 and my daughter is eight and I am Jeff and Beth's executive assistant. So that's what I do.

Beth: 3:33

So fun. It's so

Jenn: 3:35

amazing. All right, Jen. Yeah. My name is Jen Couch. I've been married to my husband Craig coming up on 29 years this May. And we have two adult children in their mid twenties. And now I'm in my almost mid fifties and started a group called Sobersis to help women become more sober minded, more awake, alert, aware, and present in their own lives.

Beth: 4:01

Yeah. And I know we're going to hear a little bit more about that, um, during our time together. First, I have a quick question. When's your anniversary? It is May 13th. Okay. Cause I was like, holy cow, we're celebrating 29 years, May 20th.

Jenn: 4:18

Oh, mine were my pulled a, a duo there

Alyssa: 4:23

and Ryan and I,

Beth: 4:24

same year

Alyssa: 4:25

Ryan and I are celebrating 15 years on the 30th of May. Oh my gosh. Back to that.

Beth: 4:31

We don't live the same area. We could celebrate together. Yeah, absolutely. That's fun. Okay, so let's dive into being a type one mom. Um, now you guys are perfect at it. No, I'm kidding. not

Alyssa: 4:45

at all.

Beth: 4:46

So. Being the principled reformer, what are some of the natural things that God has gifted you with that reflect him and beautiful ways that just naturally overflow in being a type one mom that you've been able to reflect on and notice that that really helps your family, yourself, your kids, and you're really just thankful for those qualities. Alyssa, why don't we start with you?

Alyssa: 5:14

Um, well, what comes to mind is just, I guess, probably my way of keeping things like organized and orderly at home. My husband commented the other day, like if something happened to you, like I would not know where to find anything if I had to try and keep stuff like in control here at home myself. Um, so I think that's helpful. And then, uh, I, at a young age actually really struggled with, you know, Um, you know, trying to keep my schoolwork organized and finding things and remembering to do things. And so I had a really good teacher in like second or third grade who really helped me kind of get some of that stuff put in place that I would say helps me to this day. And so I feel like my ability to do that now is really helping me do that in my own kids, especially for my daughter. And. I would not say we're super successful at it yet, but we're getting there. We're making improvements, um, and just trying to help them try and be more organized and responsible with their things that they have control over. So.

Beth: 6:16

Yeah, that's awesome. Jen, what about you? What are some of the

Jenn: 6:19

strengths? Okay, Alyssa, that's so funny that you were talking about school because I loved school. In fact, I'm a, I'm a kid from the eighties and I loved my Trapper Keeper. My Trapper Keeper and all things organized. So when you said That's definitely what came to mind. I wouldn't say I'm always as neat and tidy as a lot of the Enneagram one. Uh, I guess you could say kind of stereotypes out there. I'm pretty crazy and creative over here, but always organized in the sense that we have a joke at my house that we're never out of milk. Like we're never like, not going to have. What we need to do what we're doing, because I've already thought about it. Super responsible. Like do I drop balls? Absolutely. Don't make mistakes all the time, but like, I don't really forget stuff and like, you're going to have what you need. I'm pretty proactive, I guess, as a, as a wife, as a mother, as kind of CEO of my own home. I'm like always trying to be a step ahead and think. Preemptively. What are we going to need? And then I have it. I love that. I always loved, you know, the diaper bag, the baby bag. I was like, no, it's in here. Yeah.

Alyssa: 7:36

I like that because I feel like, uh, what were you saying with being like preemptive of thinking ahead? Because I feel like, uh, Oh shoot. Where was I going with that? We might have to cut this part. Cause I'm totally forgetting what I was going to say. Well, that's okay.

Beth: 7:51

I was going to say later. Yeah. So when you, I was just wondering, like, so when your kids were infants, what was your diaper bag like, and you're kind of prepping for church or going to the grocery store or whatever, like, what was, what was that like as a young mom, as a type one? Yeah. Oh,

Alyssa: 8:13

okay. Oh yeah. I mean, I had like everything, like I had two or three outfits and I had, you know, everything that you could think of I had with me because I was prepared for the possibility of whatever it might be that would happen. Multiple toys. Like my kids often were toted. My husband being a pastor, we took our kids everywhere, worship practices, meetings, whatever it was. They just came with us everywhere. Yeah. So I always had plenty of snacks and plenty of activities. And I would say even to this day, I still do that. Like my purse has crayons and many card games and, you know, whatever it could be in there to, you know, be there in the possibility that we have to randomly go somewhere and the kids have to come along and I need something to Feed them or entertain them while they wait. So

Beth: 9:03

and so a lot of people can hear that. And I think a lot of types would probably do that to two different degrees. But I love to hear the why behind it, right? So the type six would definitely think of all the worst case scenarios and prepare for it. But I'm sure as a type one, I mean, that's part of it. I'm sure you know, because we've all been there well. Maybe you guys didn't. We've all been there where we did forget the diaper or the extra pair of clothes. And so we kind of learn our lesson. What is the why behind why you had all of those things prepared? Like what was the fear if you didn't have those things?

Jenn: 9:38

Oh, I'll tell you that right now in my head. I'm like, Oh, I know. Because I always, especially when taking the kids out in public to a restaurant or whatever, I always had like the, the, you know, the special place mat that I only pulled out at restaurants. And I think I did that because I wanted to set them up for success to be able to, behave and be, you know, be great kids because I set them up for success. Not in necessarily an achieving way, but more like in a, I don't want to bring my kids into a restaurant or grocery store strung out in need of a nap, not prepared for what they need. They can't show up their best self that way. So I'm going to do everything as a mom in my human power to like set them up to do well. And I felt like I gave them the the foundation to make right choices or have a good experience out in public because I thought it through, then they would have a higher chance of doing that. And most of the time they did. I kind of had a, because I had a schedule, I was growing kids God's way wise now with the SS. Oh, I was all in and fortunately had healthy children that adhered very well to a schedule. So I planned. All of my errands, all of my tasks around that schedule. So rarely did I contend with a super fussy kid because I knew their time to not be fussy was my window that we could all have a good time.

Beth: 11:16

Yeah, I love everything was

Jenn: 11:18

really flowing that way. In those younger years, it eliminated a lot of chaos by setting them up for success. Yeah,

Alyssa: 11:27

yeah, that's good. I think if I was, if I was to try and like piggyback off that a little bit, it would be a, Just, I think for me, and we've talked about it before, Beth, was my fear of like my kids maybe acting out and then being concerned about what the repercussions of that would be, whether it be, you know, embarrassment or having to try and discipline them or control their behavior in public or, you know, Maybe what others might think if my kids weren't behaving like I wanted them to or expected them to. So I think that was

Beth: 12:01

not because a type three possibly could be more like, what do people think as in like image? Am I a mire? Do I have status in that kind of a realm? But for a one, I'm assuming that it's, what do people think? Am I doing the wrong thing? Am I making a mistake? Or are they judging me or being critical in their mind of me? Is that probably what it is more? Absolutely.

Jenn: 12:25

Oh yeah,

Beth: 12:25

for sure.

Jenn: 12:26

Yeah. That resonates with me too.

Beth: 12:28

Yeah. Well, that's really fun. Um, and you know, I love the whole Jen, like what you're saying, like I had the special place, Matt, you know, and as you guys were saying that I was thinking, okay, I can see a lot of my one that came out when my kids were younger. Um, but it, and it was true, but mine was to keep the peace and it was to not have the chaos, but it was so that I didn't have to deal with, so everyone could be at peace and happy and fine. Um, and I didn't want to have to discipline, especially in public, cause I didn't want them to feel ashamed or corrected in front of other people. And I'm sure you guys felt that same way. I wanted them to feel. seen and like they're important. And so I too wanted to set them up really well. So I love kind of hearing that, but kind of knowing my perspective as a nine, it was just a little bit different. It was, um, there were probably more times than what you guys would experience that I would forget to set them up well by having all the things that I need to have And that's what, that's, what's so amazing about our types. And I, I utilize the type one part of my heart, the, the wing. But I'm still a nine, you know, and so hearing you guys, it's really intriguing to know, wow, you guys are doing a fabulous job, setting your kids, your family up for success the best way you can. And I, and I'm glad that people can hear that because there are going to be some people listening to this that had type one moms that weren't maybe as healthy and, or they didn't even know that was what was behind. Some of the things they experienced, like they were trying to do what was right, but what they experienced was something very different. Um, so I kind of, well, so one, I just want to say. thank you for sharing how amazing type one moms can be, but it's also really hard. And there's times where, you know, those qualities slip into a less healthy category and it's not as great. Can you share with some of some things that you notice as a type one mom, that is a actual struggle and it might impact your family in a less. in a way that's just less as I guess needed or wanted with your family.

Jenn: 14:51

Yeah, I'll go. Um, I think, you know, when I think of being an Enneagram one, I kind of see myself as, you know, a rational. reformer. Like I want to make it make sense. And you know, kind of move the needle. Like, let's, let's make this work. And so because of that, and I do, and Beth, you know this about me, I've got a very strong nine wing as well. And so I think if you combine a strong, you know, a one with a really strong nine wing, I'm kind of an idealist.

Beth: 15:23

I

Jenn: 15:23

have a real ideal of a way I think that, Things should go. If we all play by the rules and we all do the right thing, everyone's in their lane, everyone's in the right seat, everyone's paying attention, then. we should, you know, a plus B should equal C. And in reality land, uh, that's not the case. A plus B may not even equal C. Wait, what? And, and maybe everyone's not going to follow the rules or be as idealistic. Um, as I am. And so that was a constant adjustment of like, Oh wow, I had this great picnic planned at the park and I brought the little ranch for the little carrots and blah, blah, blah. And now they're fighting on the blanket. Wait, this was not part of the scene in my mind of the relational perfection that I had assumed that we could all just take the high road, peaceably get along and do the right thing. And so when. Natural occurrences of it's too hot. People are fussy, conflict arises. It was internally for me, a real bummer externally. I could kind of, you know, smile it through that internally. It was a, it was a real bummer. And that, that sometimes caused me to go inward and feel frustrated. And I'm sure that came out too.

Beth: 16:47

And with the frustration, did that come out? You know, for type ones, a lot of times they're trying to stay buttoned up and maybe repress some of that frustration slash anger, disappointment, you know, whatever level, you know, it is and kind of repress it again to appear more in control. But really internally, it's like things are simmering. And it's like, I really don't want to get to a boiling point. And so I'm going to just like, keep this at bay. I'm going to try to fix things, reform things, perfect things, you know, as best I can so we don't get to that place. So the, the repression of the frustration, the repression of the irritability, the anger, whatever you want to call it, tends to seep out sideways. And I would love to hear when those moments happen for you, how did you communicate in a way that was less helpful to your kids? And it could be even through body language, you know, you probably weren't yelling, you know, doing big things, but, but how did you communicate that might have landed on them in a less helpful way?

Jenn: 17:57

And I do wish they were here to answer that. Because they are older, and I would say you're exactly right. It wasn't so much on the, uh, on the tip of my tongue. I didn't necessarily, you know, lose my, and Alyssa, you can probably agree. I didn't lose my temper. I wasn't a yeller, a shouter. But behind the scenes is more where that anger would come out, which just built up frustration. I think, uh, with the kids, that would be an interesting question, which I'll ask them, but I would say they probably could feel a level of just disappointment. Like, man, that's just, you know, had it all planned out. We were going to go to the circus. We were going to go to the zoo and it was going to be so fun. And it rained and then y'all lost a shoe and. just kind of a feeling of resignation of like, I tried so hard and it didn't work.

Beth: 18:57

Did, um, were there moments where, like when they were, let's say fighting on the picnic blanket when everything was, you know, set up for their success that instead of, let's say being overly controlling or yelling in the sense of anger, were you at all kind of critical or judgmental? With the With the thought I'm being helpful, you know, like, cause I think a lot of type ones think they're being helpful, but it lands on other people as judgment, criticism, perfection. But the one is like, I'm just trying to help.

Jenn: 19:32

Right.

Beth: 19:33

Has that, has that been true for you with your kids?

Alyssa: 19:37

Oh, yeah, I would say so. Um, I mean, just With my son and trying to, you know, we had a conversation the other day about his grades and it was a conversation of, like, his grades aren't bad, but, um, we could see knowing, knowing what he's capable of and then feeling like maybe he's not, you know, reaching his own level of what he's able to do and just trying to encourage him and hey like we want you to at least do what you are able to do to your best and this doesn't feel like it's your best and so we just want to encourage you to maybe work on that a little bit harder and not trying to make him feel like you must get all A's and you must you know meet this You know, sir, you must get on on roll every single time. Like that wasn't, we were trying to explain, but that's what he was feeling. Like he was feeling like, well, what I do is not good enough for what I do is not, you know, ever going to be what you need it to be. And it's like, no, I just see so much more in you. And I'm seeing that you could maybe. You know, make some changes to just, so just trying to find the right way to explain that to him so that he's not receiving it in a, a way that's not helpful. Yeah.

Jenn: 20:52

Yeah. I think if anything, for me, I probably overcompensated in an effort to not be critical. And I would just shift into a different gear of probably a little bit more of that peacemaker wing. And I would just, um, Just leave it. I was probably less vocal and more internally resigned to just, I don't want to push. I don't, I'm so hyper aware because I've been working on myself really long as I can remember to not be critical and judgmental externally as maybe I can be internally is the minute that comes up. I kind of try to shoot that down. Why? Because it doesn't feel like the right thing to do. It doesn't feel like it. Yeah, too critical. And so that overrides my desire to be critical to the point that I probably didn't. I mean, I'm glad to hear that you did that, Alyssa, but that you that you said, I think you're you can do more because if anything, I wished I would have, uh, Certainly not push or pressured my kids, but I probably lowered my standard in an effort to not be critical and not push them away. And my natural oneness probably didn't get to come out as much. I was constantly kind of suppressing that and going into my, you know, nine peacemaker wing of just The piece or going into that seven part of me, which felt way more fun in my family. We're all in the gut triad. My whole family, I'm married to an eight with a strong seven wing. Our oldest, my daughter is also an eight with a strong seven wing. And our son is a nine with a one wing and I'm the one with a nine wings. So you can see before some right there into two parts, uh, it seemed like. And I, yeah, we can get into that, but I really probably over identified with, with my son. And there was a lot of, um, triangle. Triangularization. That's a word. Yep. Yep. You know, where it was kind of like, Ooh, we've got the aggressor, we've got the, um, aggressive stance. We've got people coming forward and then we've got the victim, the person that's just kind of getting it, taking it. And then my job, that I gave myself, nobody asked me to do it, was to be the rescuer.

Beth: 23:30

Yeah. It's so good that the self reflection and the understanding of you and your family, um, one thing I want to point out, though, it's what's so interesting is, as you were saying, um, that you actually, when anger, frustration and all those things would rise up, you would actually try to go the extra mile. Yeah, to go the opposite direction, although the defensive strategy or the defensive mechanism of the type one is reaction formation, which is which is that. So like when anger comes up, it's like, we know that's bad. So I'm going to do the opposite. And it's not that it's the opposite. That it's not true of you. It's not the opposite that you're being fake. It's not that, but it's, it is a way to go. No, that's wrong. That's bad. What is the other way of doing it? And so actually I want to piggyback on that topic, Jen, because I think this goes really great with your journey with sober sis, because there's nothing wrong. Well, at least in our opinion, I know there's going to be people listening that Any touch of alcohol is wrong and bad from the Presbyterian perspective. There's nothing wrong with having a glass of wine. Um, but what you recognize was. There was something else going on underneath that was activating the continual desire of drinking. And that alerted you to change, to go a different path. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about how God has used you as a principled reformer, a person who loves to improve, make things better. How, not only have you done that for yourself, but also how you're doing that For other women and their own journeys.

Jenn: 25:25

Well, yeah, this is actually a huge part of my parenting journey as an Enneagram one, um, just a little background because I do agree with you, Beth, you know, we're not here to talk about drinking itself being right or wrong, but for me, um, I didn't really start. socially drinking at all until I was a young mom. I was already married about a decade, had kids almost school aged. I would say they were kind of four and five. Um, when I was just doing a network marketing job that got me out of the house in the evenings, I was at happy hours. I just started socially drinking. And I know for me, I can just say as an Enneagram one, especially, I, I really just felt like this immediate anxiety relief. And it's almost like my shoulders came down and my over thinking, over responsible, always on top of it. Mom, self, wife, self should finally kind of relax the edge off. And so I spent my time in my thirties. navigating that world. And I noticed that early on, like with my kids, drinking wasn't out of a stressful place. It was more of a social thing. I thought it would be fun to connect with my husband, to go on date night. But I noticed when, uh, when my oldest turned 13, I also turned 40 and that was a key time for me. My 40 to 45 was her 13 to 18 and that was, that was a specific period of time for me where, um, and I did want to talk about this today because I think it's not talked about enough at all with moms of any enneagram type and that is rejection. From your children, which is totally normal and natural on their end. So I don't think I got abnormal rejection. I think I wasn't prepared for any rejection. Why? Because I thought I had done everything right to set them up for success, to not turn on me as teenagers. When that happened naturally, as it, as it does. I guess I say naturally as it does. I look back at myself as an enneagram one, 14, 15, 16 year old. Oh, I might've thought it, but I didn't say it. Yeah. Shown them never. And Alyssa, I'm curious what you think too, but as a teenager, I was completely responsible, compliant, a rule follower, Borderline, goodie, goodie, just doing it right. You don't have to worry about me. Nothing to see here. I mean, So, for me, when I got any kind of, like, verbal, um, uh, disapproval from my kids, especially the Enneagram 8, I took it so personally. It actually wounded me. And again, that's, that's my work. That's it's less about the people around me. It's more about my internal world and how that fit into the messaging that I heard, which is you are being rejected right now because you're not good enough. And you didn't do a good job or this wouldn't have happened. Where did I go wrong? What did I possibly do wrong? And because I didn't necessarily have that same personality type towards my parents. Um, whereas my husband totally did with his parents. So when that came along, he was like, Oh yeah, blow it off. It's nothing. It just let it roll off. I was like, what? I really internalized it. And so for me to then go from just kind of a social take the edge off kind of fun, I started looking at that wine o'clock. As like my way to, uh, kind of put up a barrier. It was almost like my defense mechanism, my armor of like, you can't really hurt me. You, my, um, my armor is going to be that glass of wine because I'm going to feel a little bit less. I'm going to numb my acute awareness of what is happening here. What's out of order. What's not working. I can see what's not working. I know what's out of order so clearly and I can't seem to do anything about it. So I'm going to need to numb that because I feel a little bit helpless. Like my hands are tied. And so if my hands are tied, well, I might as well enjoy it a little bit because there's nothing I can do here. I felt out of control and I felt a little bit of helplessness and uh, And so, for me, oh, and then I could go on and on. I don't want to monopolize the situation here, but, um, Yeah. So for me, I would be super sober minded, responsible by day, wake up, have my, you know, prayer time with the Lord, have such good intentions. I'm definitely not drinking tonight for any reason. I don't care if it's a book club, a storm rolling in, networking, whatever. I'm not going to drink tonight because I started to feel that conviction of I'm just not living wholehearted. I started feeling like I was living with a divided mind and at odds with myself, like everywhere I went in this internal fight and mental tug of war. And that was exhausting. So we had to get intentions. But by wine o'clock all it would take was, you know, a comment on the way home from school and it would just, I would just internalize it. And then by five o'clock, what I call wine o'clock. I'd be like, you know, just going to have a glass and then maybe I'll have another one because it's only 5 30 before I know it. Then I've got the shame and the frustration of now that's not right. That's not the example I want to portray. And now I'm being actually judged for that, which just kept the cycle going. And that's what's passionate about women.

Beth: 31:32

Know about type ones, you know, what's really distinct with the type one is the inner critic. Now we all have an inner critic, but the type one's inner critic is like a megaphone at their ear and it is constantly berating them of what is wrong, what needs to be fixed, whether about themselves, what's around them, other people around them, the world, you name it. It's constantly blaring at them. And. What I'm, I'm guessing, tell me if I'm wrong, is that alcohol, which was your, your choice of numbing, there's lots of ways to do it. It could be food. It could be really, I mean, it could be just, you name it, it could be buying a lot of things, you name it. But for you, the wine. I'm guessing helped to turn the volume of the loud inner critic down just enough where you weren't just inundated with it. Is that kind of what, what

Jenn: 32:34

was going on? Totally. It was just exactly like you just described. It was like turning down the volume. I'm still high functioning. I'm getting stuff done. I'm not the crazy mom. That's just out drinking or, you know, Just. I'm just not fully there enough that I am also numbing a lot of my joy, resilience. Ability to do hard things, but I'm also numbing the hurt feelings, the rejection, the, the conflict inside. The conflict outside. Um, yeah, for sure. And then the, and then the

Beth: 33:10

problem is the next day that inner critic is like, oh, by the way, let's go at 3:00 AM

Jenn: 33:18

shall we? Let's say that at 3:00 AM

Beth: 33:21

Oh, by the way, I'm gonna add all

Jenn: 33:24

dread.

Beth: 33:25

Having to feel guilty for. Drinking and shame and

Jenn: 33:30

a little bit of a dry mouth and thinking, Oh no. Oh, I did it. I kind of did it again. I wasn't going to have anything. And I had two or three glasses. They even finished off a bottle.

Beth: 33:41

Before people start thinking like, okay, so the solution is to never drink. Well, that's, that, that isn't the actual. The drinking isn't the actual problem. That is a mechanism just like people can overeat. Well, you can't stop eating or watching

Jenn: 34:02

Netflix or exercising.

Beth: 34:04

Right. It's what's going on underneath. And so just quickly, and then Lissa, I want to hear, you know, from you of, you know, the inner critic, what that's been like, maybe. Things that you've noticed that you've tried to use to turn that volume down too. Cause I mean, as, as I understand it and Hey, my type one wing comes in occasionally and it is brutal, brutal when, when she comes on board. Um, and I call her vicious Victoria when she's like that. I haven't named mine. That's great. Um, and so, but so Jen, if you can quickly, so that people aren't thinking this is about. Making the right choice of not drinking or not drinking. What did you actually find was more true? And then of course, what then sober sis became, but what, what was the truth that was really going on?

Jenn: 34:58

Yeah. Well, and I, I just recently said this, I've said it in my book. I really didn't have a drinking problem. I had a thinking problem and a, and a really a heart issue, but the, the thinking, um, the mindset, I think for me, I was always trying to control things. externally to feel better internally. And when I realized, wait a minute, I am so responsible. It's not a bad thing, but I'm not responsible for others. I'm responsible to others, but not for others. I'm only responsible for myself. I can control my thoughts. I can with the Lord's help. I can control my thoughts. I can control my responses. I can control what I put in my body. And that's about it. Uh, that's about it. When you boil it all down, I can control what I think. Um, I can I can work from the inside out instead of hoping that everything around me aligns so that I'm okay. And I also had to lean into the fact that I'm okay to not be okay. And I'm definitely okay. People around me are not okay. And I, I've, you know, I've heard that, that mom's slogan, that phrase, you know, you're only as happy as your most, uh, unhappy child or whatever. I've heard that

Beth: 36:21

before.

Jenn: 36:23

I think that that outsourcing of your happiness, your joy, your resilience to anything, it's, it's an inside job. And so I think for me having to go, okay, it is wine o'clock. I, I do want to numb out a little bit. I do kind of want to check out. What do I want to check out from?

Beth: 36:45

Why

Jenn: 36:45

do I want to check out? And if I check out, what does that really costing me? What's the opportunity cost of checking out a little bit, a lot. Okay. And so I just, I really started going to my mindset. What was my mindset?

Beth: 37:01

Yeah, I love that. So Alyssa, uh, what about you? Like, what are some things that you've noticed that are really hard and that inner critic just will not stop? And what are some strategies you've used that you've noticed? They could be good strategies and healthy strategies and Godly strategies that have really worked and are great and then other strategies that you're like, yeah, I was really hoping that this thing would keep the inner critic at bay and that didn't work and it's actually caused even more chaos inside. So what about you as a mom?

Alyssa: 37:36

Hmm.

Beth: 37:36

Um,

Alyssa: 37:37

well, one of the things that I started doing for myself, um, A few years ago was I started doing CrossFit because I was having a lot of like mental struggles with, you know, like myself or feeling like I was not doing enough or so I needed something that was mine, just kind of an outlet. So I started doing that a few years ago and I really enjoyed that. Um, and about a year ago, let me think. Yeah, it's well, eight, 10 months ago. Um, I had some kind of. issue, health issue that I'm working through, um, still to this day. And I have had to stop doing that since then. Um, and it has really had me in some essence, I've kind of spiraled at times about like, Okay. Now I'm in this situation where I can't do things like I normally would, even just on a normal day to day basis level of meeting my own expectation of wanting to provide awesome meals for my family every night or taking my kids to all the things or, you know, whatever that might be and having to kind of reevaluate that. But then taking that piece of something that I had found that I finally really enjoyed. That was something for myself and having that stripped away.

Beth: 38:50

Was really

Alyssa: 38:50

hard to, and, um, so I have really, and I mean, it's something that we should do anyways or, or whatever it's beneficial in terms of, of, uh, spending time with the Lord. But for me, like that has been what I have found to be what I have as my go to to try and help quiet that down. Um, and I don't know, maybe that was part of the reason why, you know, I've kind of am in this season that I'm in, but, you know, Maybe it was to point my, my mindset, my direction, more in that direction to find, focus more on the Lord in this season and, um, hear what he has to say for me. Um, but that has been a huge, that has been a huge help in helping quiet that down. Um, and then also like having good people that I can kind of bounce things off of, whether that be my husband or a friend, um, that are good, sound advice. People that can really be like, Hey, like here's actual reality, or is here's where you're actually succeeding and doing well, let's take all this head trash that you like to call it and set it over here. And let's really truly dissect what what's actually true about what you're hearing or what's actually, um, what's actually going on. And that's really helpful because I think that inner critic for me can really, um. Cause made a spiral and those thoughts oftentimes aren't even true, but they feel like truth. Um, because you can come up with all these reasons for yourself as to why, like, well, this is true because, you know, this is what's going on or because of X, Y, Z. And, and in reality, like, it's not actually. You know, true or not, not as strong as a thing is what we're making a big of a thing as we're making it out to be

Beth: 40:43

like, and that's why I use that analogy of it's the inner critic. It's like it has a megaphone, like it's making it a really big deal. And, um, and sadly, when I talked to most ones, The inner critic gives the impression that it's basically the Holy Spirit, or it's what you should follow. And I'm like, yeah, you know, the Holy Spirit is loving, kind, peaceable, good, faithful, you know, all the fruits of the spirit. Um, there is no more judgment because of Christ. So no more condemnation. Like he, that he is gracious. He's You know, all the things that, you know, the scripture talks about God and Jesus in the Holy Spirit and the critic isn't that way now, that doesn't mean that everything the critic says is wrong or bad, but to hang our hat on the inner critic as if, Oh, that's what I need to follow. No, because if it's not speaking life over you, and it's not speaking truth over you. It might be telling you to do something, quote unquote, right, but is it with the right framework, the right mindset, and that's where the renewing our mind where we can do the same right thing, but we need to do it from a place of freedom, a place of liberation from Christ, unconditional love, um, great, you know, all the things that he gives us. And so I know that that's a real moment of freedom for type ones when they recognize. Wait a second. Yeah, I always thought that was the voice I have to follow and I've always followed it no matter what. Um, and you're saying I don't have to? Like, wait, what? And it's a real, like, their mind doesn't even know what to do with it for a while. But then once they start to see the two sides, okay, what is the Holy Spirit like? What is Jesus like? And then what is this inner critic like? Oh, okay. And then start to really assess who, who do I want to listen to? Um, again, we'll follow truth where truth really is, but follow the one that actually speaks life, you know, over you. And I think

Jenn: 42:47

what y'all talked about is connection. You know, if we're isolated and we are in our own head, or like you were talking about the spiral, Yeah, it's really easy to kind of lose what is true. Um, obviously we've got God's word to tell us, but sometimes we need a friend. We need a comrade, um, to speak into our life, that truth, um, or just even speaking to other people's life, the truth and how that benefits everyone. And so I think connection, that's another thing that really changed for me. I really tried to kind of. A lot of things on my own thinking, we'll get it to get there. This is not okay to talk about, especially in Christian circles, anything that's that's stereotyped or stigmatized, or that has a lot of legalism around it. It was really hard for me to even talk about a topic like drinking because it felt like such a black mark on me. Like, Oh no, I don't want to be labeled. That kept me very silent for a very long time. Even the name sober sis, um, was a challenge for me to use the word sober because of all of the connotations. I don't even really identify as like a sober person. I'm more of a sober minded person. And so I had, you know, working through that has really been with others. Not by myself.

Beth: 44:15

Yeah. So as we wrap it up, one thing I'd love for you guys to do is think about through motherhood. I'm particularly thinking in my mind, the young mom, because Libby, my daughter just had our first grandson two months ago. So it's just like fresh on my mind, the young mom, which is true because you kind of get thrown into this world that you thought you were ready for. And it's very different. So definitely that in mind, but it could be moms of any age, any stage. And there are type one, the things that you have learned that God has. Giving you the ability to reflect on, understand. Can you share what you needed to hear? What you wished you would have heard back then? Like almost speaking to yourself, um, Alyssa, what about you? What would you say to the moms?

Alyssa: 45:07

Yeah, there's a couple of things that come to mind. The first one is finding the beauty in the imperfections, because I feel I, for a long time felt like, you know, I use my daughter as an example. She is very free spirited and she loves to be creative. So when it comes to picking out her clothes, for example, in the morning for school, she'll put on, you know, a polka dot pair of pants with a striped shirt that has rainbows all over it. And, you know, completely mismatched everything. Right. And. For a long time, it was kind of like, well, you can't wear that. That doesn't match. Like you need to, you know, put this outfit on instead, kind of a thought and wrapping my mind around the idea of like, no, like there's beauty in the imperfection or there's beauty in the, you know, not being the right way, you know? And so, um, finding and seeing her joy and being able to put together what she felt like was a matching outfit because her shirt had a rainbow on it. Even though it was completely different. And then she had rainbow on her pants. So she has this rainbow colored striped shirt on, and she has these pants that are orange, but they had rainbows on them. So it matched, you know, like whatever her mindset was about that, but the joy in, in seeing it from her perspective. Um, so that was one of the first things, but, um, uh, I can't remember what the other thing was that I had now, but yeah, just finding the joy in the imperfection, like just. Not taking things so seriously and allowing the kids to, Oh, that was the other thing. Allowing the kids to be kids. Like sometimes I get so wrapped up in, you know, having to get these things done or checking off the things off of my box or You know, whatever that might be and forgetting to slow down and let them be kids, like let them make the mess. Um, let them, let me put my to do list aside and find the joy in the moment and not be so focused on all the things that I have to do because that stuff. will be there. Um, as my husband says, it doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to get done. So like it's not with the laundry, another one, like the kids, you know, aren't going to make me fold it the exactly the right way. Um, and it might have a little wrinkle in it in a spot that maybe I would fold it in a way that it wouldn't, but they're learning it. Yeah. They're learning how to fold laundry. They're taking some responsibility. They're helping me get a test done that then now I don't have to do everything myself. Um, and so, you know, learning to let some of that go so that we can find joy in the imperfections and in the moments and, you know, relax than that. But also when we do that, we're letting them. learn who they are. We're letting them learn, um, how to be their own people and also gain some responsibility and some skills that maybe they wouldn't learn if we do the dishwasher ourselves all the time because it's quicker and we're going to do it the right way. Whereas, you know, if we let them help and they're learning how to also do that task, um, and take on some responsibility. So, yeah.

Beth: 48:11

Oh, I love that. Yeah. That's, that's so good. And what I hear in that, which is so fun is. The seven part of you, you know, so being connected to the seven is like being flexible and like connecting and having joy. But then I also hear the four part of your heart that you're connected to. It's like, I want them to be them. I want them to know their individuality, their uniqueness, how I created them to be versus me putting them in a box. Um, but then also a nine part, that's like very open and receptive and willing to listen to your kids and, you know, love them right where they're at. And then the two part of your heart, that's like, you know, I'm going to be there to support them, uh, no matter what their needs are. And so it's this, that's where the Enneagram is so amazing because though you lead with your type one. Core motivations. These other parts play a very beautiful role in supporting that. Now, obviously, if you're not in a good place, it all, they also chime in with not so helpful things. Um, but that's what I was hearing from what you were saying. And it's just such a beautiful picture of how God creates us. Um, In a very complex way, you know, it's not like you're just this, you know, you're one number, which is why our books called more than your number. You're more than that. And you're a, and how God is shaping you as a mom and how that's reflecting is just really. Awesome to hear. Jen, what about

Jenn: 49:38

you? Well, first off, I totally agree with that. Um, I think when my kids were younger, that was, that was my mindset too. It was like, man, it's not a good day. You know, if you don't come in a little messy, because that means, you know, you've had fun. Like we used to, yeah, lots of, a lot of, lots of water hose and mud pies in the backyard. I did kind of embrace that because I think it was really fun. I think, you know, talking to a young mom, um, or, or, A mom who has not yet entered those teenage years. I've come out of that. I wish somebody would have said this to me, that it's okay. If your kids pull away and go on the dark side of the moon for a minute, they will come back. Um, you didn't lose them. You, you, they're not gone. They're just distancing a little bit and it's going to be okay. And during that time, What an opportunity to work on your own self care, your own boundaries. I think I got so focused on trying to make it all okay around me that I forgot me and then I was of no service to anyone. If you don't put your oxygen mask on first, you know, how are you going to help anyone else on the plane that feels like it's going down? Put yours on first. It's okay to take some time and just go, you know what? That is crazy. That is absolutely crazy. And that's okay. It's, you know, a hormonal, uh, whirlwind when you're sometimes crossing paths with emerging teenagers and just lots of grace and lots of space for yourself. And, you know, don't forget to take care of yourself. That's not selfish. Self care is not selfish. It's vital. It's not optional to living a really wholehearted life and you know, boundaries work on it. Work on you during those challenging years instead of forgetting you and trying to change everybody else.

Beth: 51:30

Yeah. And I think most of us, no matter what type we are, we're trying to change other people or fix other people so that whatever expectations we think will alleviate the stress or the anxiety or the anger or sadness, whatever we're dealing with inside, if they would all change, then we would be fine. Now that's my type, right? So I'm thinking, well, if everyone's just happy, then I'll be happy. And it's like, okay, Beth, that never is going to happen ever. Right. You know, it's true. I mean, like, you cannot make everyone happy. And like you were saying, you know, a mom's happiness is, you know, what'd you say, is correlated with the least happy child. And that is a, that is like the statement of a nine. Like, and that's, And if I, and I do try to live that way, right? Like not knowingly, but the ninism of me is like, yeah, that's, that's absolutely true. You have to make people happy. But then when I get out of that and recognize, no, that is not truth that I can be okay, even if they're not okay. And not that. I want my kids to not be okay, but it's God that has to do the work in and through them. And even in their circumstances, I can support them. I can cheer them on. I can give them resources to help them if, if that is needed. But ultimately I have to trust him and they have to trust him. And let me tell you, that's hard, right?

Jenn: 53:00

Showing your kids when they're, when they're little and young, but it definitely, as they continue to grow up and are starting to really notice the adult external world around them. That's when it's really time, especially as a one to start dropping the perfectionism and the performance and start going for presence, go for presence with your children instead of your performance. They're not going to judge you, rate you on that. At the end of the day, they just want you. And I thought I was doing a good job by removing a little bit of my rough edges and my, My jagged parts and just being like this pleasant, chill mom that was kind of gliding through the evening with a little slight buzz on. They wanted my presence, not my performance and not my perfection. And they wanted to see me practice. I mean, how great is that for your kids to watch you make a mistake, fall down, get back up, recover. That's more valuable. And because of my, struggles, actually that's opened the communication with my now adult children so much more than any of my perfectionism. It's not my achievements and things that I've done right. That actually connect us is the things that I've struggled in and recovered from and moved on from and come through and then authentic about me with their stuff. I'm like, Oh, let's talk about it. You really can't shock me. You really can't, you know, and I think they feel that

Beth: 54:28

now. And I know that you, you are like this, but being authentic in those struggles and how you're growing in those struggles, that's really what they're looking for, because they're going to go through their own struggles. It may not be the same struggles. How do I go through struggles? Yeah, if we don't model

Jenn: 54:48

what it's like to go through struggles, more valuable than how can I keep it together, show them how to just keep it together all the time. And just, that's just not going to work in the real world. I'd rather, yeah, show them the, the tool.

Alyssa: 55:04

I was saying, that's really good. I mean, that's really relatable to me in this season. I mean, in, in general, we've, Tried to have conversations with our kids about, you know, like, here's what's going on or here is, you know, maybe something that we're struggling with, or because it's in those moments, like you said that they learn and they grow. Um, but I think. You know, it's also an opportunity for them to see God working in those hard times, um, to show him that, you know, God is real and, um, to help them, you know, in real time and real life experience, be able to see that, you know, this is how God is helping us in this situation, or this is where, you know, We're getting how we're getting from point A to point B, we're not doing it on our own. Um, so I think those, those can create really cool teachable moments for them too.

Beth: 55:57

And that's scary for all nine type parents to be that real. And it's going to be scary for their own type reasons. And so the type one it's like, but if I'm not good or perfect, you know, whatever word you want to insert there, then how are they going to know how to be good? How do they know how to be wise? How, you know, you put the word in there and like we're saying, it's like, it's really in the imperfections and owning them, being humble, asking for forgiveness, whether it's to the person, to God, to both, um, and then moving towards health and growing. That's where the connection is really at. And of course, age appropriate, right? So there are certain things that you will. Reveal to your four year old that's age appropriate and things that you want compared to like my children who are 23 and 26, and I even have a grandchild. So the things that I can talk to them about is way different than what they are as a child. But it's still the premise of being humble, being teachable, listening to them, connecting, asking for forgiveness, repairing, restoring. And it's really Jesus Christ through it all, right? Like, cause he's the one. Who has restored us. He has forgiven us. He has the victory for us. And so we can rest in knowing he will take care of all of us if we are humble and dependent on him. And that's easier said than done. Oh yeah.

Alyssa: 57:22

But it's good in those seasons for the kids to be able to see us as real people, right? Right. Because I, I mean, I don't know about y'all, but when, um, I got to a certain Age. I don't remember exactly when that was, but you get to the point where you move from seeing your parents as your parents, your parents as people. And that was a really big shift for me. Um, and I, my parents are great people. I love them very much, but there was a level of like, I think if I had seen, you know, maybe them handle some of these situations in front of me a little bit, or in this certain way, maybe I would have. You know, handle things differently as an adult or whatever that might be, you know, but then being able to see us as real people now will hopefully help them as they get older and understanding how to approach life.

Beth: 58:16

So, yeah, I agree. 100%. That's so, so good. Well guys, thank you so much. Um, I really just want to say thank you for. Being vulnerable, being transparent. It's hard as a one, right? Because it's like, even though, you know, it's good to share these things, the, there's a part of that one that's like, yeah, but we want people to know we're doing it right. And the beautiful thing is, I know you guys are killing it. You're doing a great job. We were even saying the person that couldn't show up today, they had an emergency. We're like, yeah, they're not just flaking out. It's a one, like they had something legit. I don't know what it was, yeah. We already know they have good reasons as type one, we know it was legit, um, for sure. And so you are doing a fabulous, wonderful job taking care of your kids. And then the steps that you're taking to go to those vulnerable places and to show up real and honest and to trust in the Lord for yourself. And. For them. That's truly remarkable too. So thank you for being authentic so that people can hear the highs and the lows and everything in between as being a type one mom. So thanks guys for sharing that with us today.

Alyssa: 59:25

Yeah, of course. That was fun. Thanks for having us on.

Beth: 59:28

am so thankful that they were able to share authentically with clarity, with honesty about their highs and lows about being a type one mom. I hope those that are out there that are type one moms that you feel understood, validated, seen, you might have laughed through it. You may have cried, but I hope that you really felt understood for those that aren't type one moms. I hope that you better understand the amazing qualities that type one moms have, but also the struggles that they go through. So you can have more compassion and empathy and move towards them with greater love. Now, if you're interested in being a part of a group that's similar to this, that can really share authentically and laugh and cry and everything in between, then you're going to want to join my Enneagram for mom cohorts. These are a Uh, cohorts of 25 women. So it's limited spaces and it starts June, the week of June 10th, all the way through the week of July 9th, eight weeks, 90 minute sessions. You can choose either a morning or an evening, and this is just going to be so much fun. And so real at the same time, if you're interested, get your spot right now at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash cohorts, and let your friends know, because once the spots are gone, they're gone. I don't want you to miss out next week. We're going to listen to type two moms. I can't wait for you to hear what they have to say. I'll see you then.