Beth: 0:00

Hey everyone. Welcome to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I'm Beth McCord, your Enneagram coach. And we've started a new series where I'm taking you through all nine types with moms. Yes. So there'll be three moms of each type where you get to hear about their journey. What is it like to be a mom of that type? So today you're going to listen to three type two moms. Now, I mean, have you ever wanted to have connections with other moms who truly got you? I mean, most of the time we're around people that have advice that goes along with their type, which is different than our type. And that can produce shame, confusion, frustration. But what if you had a group of moms that you got to get together with that were the same type? Well, guess what? We have any grant for moms cohorts and registration ends today, May 13th. Now the cohorts will start the week of June 10th. And we want you to be a part of this eight week cohort because you are going to have a safe place where you can. Really be authentic. You can share your challenges and your strengths. You can get encouragement from other moms who get you. There will also be a certified Enneagram parenting coach in the group to lead the way. This is going to be a time for you to get to know more about your Enneagram type as a mom, but also get the encouragement and the friendship with others, who again, Totally get you register today because it's the last day to register and you can go to your Enneagram coach. com forward slash cohorts to register right now. Let's dive into today's podcast episode where we're going to hear from three type two moms and get to hear their highs, lows, and everything in between. So here we go. All right, everyone. So here we are with three type two moms and I'm going to have them introduce themselves to us. So Josephine, why don't we start with you?

Josephine: 2:08

Okay. Um, hi everyone. My name is Josephine Kohler, Kohler, like roller. Um, and I am an Enneagram coach based in Dallas, Texas. And, um, for me, uh, before navigating first time motherhood during the pandemic, I spent about a decade in the education field. I heard about this program called teach for America. And, um, that kind of geared my career at that time. And then. Yeah. Like I said, became a first time mom during the pandemic. And so that definitely shifted career, um, trajectory and different things. And so now in this season, I get to do similar passions and, and do different things, um, within the Enneagram while also spending these like sweet fleeting moments with my two sons, I have a son that has just turned four and then a son that is about a One and a half. And I also host a podcast called Kohler commentary, where I do also invite, um, guests that are Korean American from my own background, where we get to talk about their stories, but I also implement the Enneagram into my questions. And so it really just bridges a gap for a lot of, um, different things that we can talk through. And yeah, during my free time, I love to serve in my church. I like to play some sports, um, just create memories with community as a two, obviously, and that is me.

Beth: 3:24

Yeah, it's awesome. Okay. Amy, what about you?

Amy: 3:27

my name is Amy Spofford. I live in Southeastern Pennsylvania. I'm with my husband and my three kids. They're age two, four, and seven. So I'm really kind of in it right now. Um, by day I'm a speech language. Speech language pathologist. Of course, I can't talk. Um, working with the elderly population in a skilled nursing facility. But, um, I'm kind of shifting a little bit. My true passion now has become postpartum education after having my three kids. And so I help pregnant moms make the transition into postpartum by doing birth education and just teaching them like kind of the expectations, um, Of postpartum and kind of trying to hold their hands through it to make it easier because all of us kind of go into it without any information. And then we all struggle individually, but I the idea of us helping those that come after us so that we can give them an easier time. And in general, I just love learning about personality types. I love any personality framework. I love learning about myself. And I've really liked kind of recently deep diving personally, just how. Into how the enneagram could affect my parenting, especially since getting this opportunity. So I'm

Beth: 4:41

Oh, love that. It's just, it's so fun hearing, cause I've, you know, done lots of different types and then just hearing your all's heart and then knowing the type that you have, it's just like really fun to see how just the natural cadence of how God created you overflows. Um, okay, Olivia. So before Olivia, you get on, let me just let everyone know. So Olivia's husband got pulled away. Um, and so she's like, but I have Walker, my baby. Is that okay? And I'm like, this is a podcast about mom. So yes, this is absolutely okay. But if you're listening and you hear a baby every once in a while, well, that's Walker. He's joining us today as well. Um, so Olivia, why don't you tell us a little bit about you?

Oliva: 5:24

Yes, thank you again for being so gracious and allowing Walker to hang out with us this evening. Um, so, Walker is my second son. I have an older son, Sawyer, who just, um, Well, I say just turned six, but that was back in October, so I guess not.

Beth: 5:41

it probably feels like it.

Oliva: 5:43

I'm in that, like, baby postpartum phase of, like, time doesn't exist. So, um, But yes, I have been married to my husband for 12 years, um, that we're high school sweethearts. He was in the military and we lived in North Carolina for about five years and then we moved back, um, to Tennessee. That's where we currently live. And, um, I was classically trained as a teacher. I taught for four years when we were in North Carolina. And then when we moved back, I got pregnant with Sawyer. So then I decided to just stay home and take care of the babies. So, um, kindergarten rising first grade and, um, the Enneagram, I think I've been, Introduced to the Enneagram about three years ago, um, I started doing some therapy work, and, and, um, yeah. Enneagram got brought up, and, um, so I started learning about my type, and everything just clicked and made so much sense, and then I've been able to use that, you know, within friendships, and, um, I was a former wedding planner. After I decided to teach, so I use that, um, working with clients and vendors, and so it's just been a really great tool just to use in parenting, relationships, um, and then professional relationships as well.

Beth: 7:04

Yeah, love that. That is so great. And he's, we're loving having him here as well as, and hey, he likes it. He's like, Hey ladies, I'm here. Right. So that's really fun. Um, well guys, this is going to be a really fun time because, you know, there's a lot of type two moms out there. Um, my daughter being one of them who are new moms to this, or there's Type two moms that don't even know they're a type two mom, or they've just learned they're a type two mom. They don't even know what this means. Right. And they're going through one of the most challenging seasons of their life. They probably thought, you know, it was going to be amazing. And they, you know, they figured it out and they've, you know, they created this type two mom. Perfect nest. And it's just going to be amazing. They're going to be amazing mom. Cause they're so good at caring for people and all that's probably true to a point. And, but then real motherhood hits and it's so different than what you expected. And there's really good highs and there's lows, there's guilt, there's shame, there's everything in between. And that can just be really hard and daunting on all of us moms. And so what I'd love to hear is what Let's start with the highs, knowing that you're a type two mom, where do you see how you guys just not just the natural cadence of your type two ness, the strengths of a type two, how, and when do those come out as a mom and we'll just popcorn. So, you know, like Olivia, if you're like, Hey, this is a great time. I'm going to jump in, feel free to do that, but we'll just kind of popcorn. So whoever wants to start, how do you see your to show up in a great way as a mom?

Amy: 8:45

I can start. Um, I've noticed it. This is Amy, by the way, I noticed it a lot, especially with my oldest, who's seven, because as twos, I think we are empathetic and we can kind of read people's feelings and emotions and empathize with people easily. And now that she's getting a little bit older, she can have more kind of like real conversations. And so, I'm kind of looking forward to the big kid phase and beyond with my others, because while twos can be very nurturing, toddlers and babies are not easy to read and they they can't really listen to reason. And I find that I can relate to her and she asked me questions and I'm there for her. And I find that that's going to be something, I think that is a strength going forward that I've struggled with in the baby and toddler phase.

Beth: 9:36

Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Twos are really good advisors or giving advice, you know, giving advice, giving thoughts, giving opinions, being there as a support. Um, so I can totally see why that would be a really fun stage for you to get into. Yeah. Uh, Olivia or Josephine? Yeah.

Josephine: 9:54

Yeah, I can go. Um, yeah, I would piggyback off of that. Maybe also just the oldest child that connection. But my son who's for, um, one of the things I always hear as feedback is his emotional awareness as a toddler. And so I think that's always something that now that I know more Enneagram stuff, I'm like, Oh, well, that makes sense that that's something I somehow Embed into him maybe, but there was one moment where like, you know, we've just been kind of settling here in Dallas and finally family has been good as well and We had some friends over and then after they left my son was like Like umma, which is mom in korean. Like I have happy sad. I'm happy sad, which means like happy tears like You know, happiness that comes with some tears and he's like, you know, I just feel so loved by my friends and by your friends, things like that. And I was like, Oh, like, I feel loved too. And I was just like, I was like, Oh, no, I don't know if it's like an Oh, no moment, which you could talk about the weaknesses part later, maybe. But I was like, I think I'm raising a to like in some of those things. things. Um, but yeah, I think I really do appreciate his ability to express emotions. And that helps us go through the tantrums that are happening at this time where he's becoming more aware of what that means. And there are like, um, talking back stuff that I'm like learning. But then also with that skill, it's been a reminder that, like, we're on the right track to continue growing forward. Um, so yeah,

Beth: 11:17

Yeah, that's great. Olivia, what about you?

Oliva: 11:20

Yes, totally agree with all of that. The emotional intelligence, um, like I said, Sawyer is six, so he's very vocal about his needs and his wants and everything, um, but I think that also extends to, um, Um, his relationships, like his friendships and stuff, he's very kind and um, he can vocalize that with his friends too, to be able to recognize, oh, you're hurt or you need something. So he's very kind and that has been, um, really fun to watch him develop that skill.

Beth: 11:54

Yeah, well, that's great. Um, okay, so we've got some highs and some strengths, but then parenting is really, really hard and it can really, um, Kind of blindside us, right? Like, you know, we've read all the books, we've talked to all the people, like we're ready for it. And then it's like, what just happened? And a lot of like, shame can come up. Um, and in ways that are different for each of the nine types, you know, like for, for one, I was talking to a type eight mom and that where the shame came up for her is that especially with a baby and a toddler. There's no control, right? I'd be like, you can only do so much. And as a type eight, it's like, nope, I've, you know, I've got control. I know what I'm doing, you know, and I, you know, I'm assertive, but that doesn't always work when you're a mom. And so that feeling of shame, like, why can't I get this together? Why can't I, you know, and it's, so it's just different for all the nine types. And so I love to hear how has. Being a mom been really hard and challenging in ways that maybe other people wouldn't have expected for a type two, or maybe that you don't normally talk about with the everyday person that you'd probably only talk with other type twos that really get it. What are some of those things that you guys typically struggle with or where shame comes up?

Amy: 13:17

My first thought is postpartum, like in that early time when it's so, so important to ask for and accept help and twos are such helpers that we want to not burden anyone. And so we just are maybe internalize a lot of it or just say, okay, we can handle it. We can get through it. We can do it all. We can be super mom. Um, but. In order to get through postpartum and come out the other side, mentally stable, I think we do need to be able to lean on people. And that's just harder for twos. I think,

Beth: 13:50

Yeah. So, and I definitely want to hear, uh, Josephine and Olivia on that too, because When, what is it like when someone offers you help versus you knowing you need to ask for help? Is, is there a difference? Is that, are they both, is it both hard to do that or is one easier or better than the other?

Amy: 14:15

I think it's a lot easier to accept it when it's offered. Um, and it's the easiest when it's offered in a very specific way. So hi, I'm going to make you a meal. Would you like chicken enchiladas or soup? Um, I'm going to come over. What time is better this time or this time? Hi, I'd like to help you. Um, would it be better if I picked up your order order child from school or would it be better if I came over for a visit? Like, Something like that, that really just takes the decision fatigue away from the new mom. That, that is what I would love the

Beth: 14:45

Well, here's what's so great about what you just did is because twos are so great at this, they know what the needs are. So you nuanced, like you knew what the needs were, like even you saying, would you like me to pick up your older child at school? I'll be honest. I wouldn't think of that. Like, I was like, that's a great idea. Yeah. Because maybe the mom just wants to stay at home and do all the things at home or just rest. That's a great idea. Like, but I don't think that way is that just really goes to show how you guys are so strong in the area of knowing other people's needs and how to move in to help their needs. But that's also a real struggle for you guys, right? Because people don't think about your specific needs and nuance them that way. Would you agree?

Amy: 15:28

Yes. And I would say that a lot of people just say, let me know if there's anything I can do.

Beth: 15:32

Yes. Yes.

Amy: 15:33

like, I'm

Beth: 15:34

And then you're like, I'm a two. I'm not going to just say,

Amy: 15:38

I'm probably not going to reach out to you. You know, I mean, unless I, the people that I reached out to for help or my very close circle,

Beth: 15:46

Yeah. Josephine, what about you? Is that? Oh, go, no, Olivia, go for it.

Oliva: 15:53

sorry, I was just going to say, I definitely agree with Amy, um, and I realized myself. Being that person too, when I see other people that might need help, I do the same thing, Amy, where I'm like, would you like me to do this or this? Um, but I would rather accept an offer of help rather than ask for help. I probably will never ask for help maybe to my husband, but I'm not outside of that.

Beth: 16:20

Yeah. No, I love, I, this is such a helpful conversation because I'll be honest, us type nines were like, Hey, just let us know if you need anything. And we, Yeah. You know, generally mean that because we're not skilled in the knowing exactly what people actually need. We know that there is a need or that they're overwhelmed, but not always the nuance. Some, some lines do, and then some lines don't. So this is a really great discussion for me to go, Oh, I need to be much more in tuned and proactive and listening to then give the suggestions. Hey, would you like this or this Josephine? What about you?

Josephine: 16:55

um, well, to piggyback off of that topic, I would say that, um, when I had my first son, it was during the pandemic. So asking for help wasn't an option. And I think that was my habit of like, can't ask for help, you know, and so, um, I think it was such an isolating time where you're already going to have a lot of anxiety and, you know, mental load. But I think I was just confused with how to navigate this time. And I couldn't even accept help because I had grandparents, right? And their lives were more important at that time. And so I think that did bleed into how I was going to approach my second child, but moving and like this time, having a child not in the pandemic, it's like weird when I see just another mom friend. And they can see my child at a young age. And that's like healing for me because I didn't like, it was maybe a second or through a window or something. Right. And so for me being a social too, as well, like just being, or like if they'll just come over for me, like that helps me get through a day more than doing it by myself, because I think I can do certain things, but having that company actually really just helped me. And so that alone has been a healing moment. I think in terms of your question about shame. Um, I think for me, one of the first times I really felt that deeply as an identity as a mother was when I had to decide to send my, uh, first to daycare. And I think for me, because I had to quit during the pandemic, um, you know, staying, staying at home was an easy choice, but when I was thinking of my second child and I was realizing all the different, Mental health things that I went through with the first. Um, my decision was to send him to daycare. I know everyone has their own time and own circumstance, but that is when I had the shame of like, I have to send this child almost away in my mind in order to focus on my second. And, um, but I think that's While that was a shameful thought at first, um, that was actually the best thing for me and where I like am someone who wants to love wholly and being able to express that with my, my first, because also with my, or with my second, because also in my second, I couldn't do certain, um, like breast milk type of things that I did with my first because the time is different, all these things. And so, um, my first experience of shame was when I had to, and I think like that's still something I'm navigating and not trying to compare what I did with my first with my second and being okay with that is something I'm going through and hearing you guys also have multiples. Um, I'm, I would be curious and also like whatever that looks like.

Beth: 19:25

well, first, I want to just say, I, and we'll get to the question about self care, but I love, I love that you brought up because the, the wounding childhood message or the interpreted childhood message for the type two is it's not okay to have your own needs and feelings. You know, you, you're recognizing, I have a need. I know what it was like with my first, and I have a need that I need to send my first to childcare so I can focus on my second to maintain my own wellbeing, which of course has the ripple effect into the family. So ultimately what you did was amazing, but also as a two who wants to be connected with their family and nurture, that's really important. That's really, really hard. So I just want to commend you. Like, I know that at the moment it felt like shame and I'm sure logically you're like, I know this is good and healthy, but the feeling of shame rises and you're going to, and the fact that you had to counteract that with truth, I'm sure time and time again is exhausting. And I think it's really good for people to hear that because that's when we need as a support group to come in. And be that person's cheerleader, you know, and say, you know, because yes, we ultimately have to do our own self work and self care, but it is exhausting. And so I hope that you had people that said you're doing a great job. I know sending him to school is really hard, but it's the right thing to do it. And you know that, and it's, it's helping, but what would that, what was that like if people did that, or what would that be like if people cheered you on in that way? Um,

Josephine: 21:18

you are and validating that part of sadness. But then also, um, seeing how my son has been growing, like social interaction is good. Like all these like things you worry about and whatnot. I would say another example, maybe that speaks to the two, but when I decided to quit the, um, breast, uh, milk journey earlier with my second son than I had expected that had a lot of shame. And I, I think for me that I process it through like making a post, like, um, honoring my body for what it's been through in the last two children. And, um, even like a year later, I just have random people that I meet, uh, that I, that, that, Like we are friends on social media, but maybe don't see each other as often. And they'll be like, your posts actually helped me not feel so guilty about my own decision. And I think as a two, that was affirming, right? It's like I made a decision for myself and that's something I'm proud of. But then to know that that did have some effect that I didn't expect. But hearing that is like, I'm so glad because those decisions feel so isolating and can be, um, guilt, you know, in, in, in, It gives you guilt, but to know that I could lessen that as well, just a little bit for someone else meant the world for me. Yeah.

Beth: 22:26

Yeah, because literally, you know, for the type two, if that's the decision you were wanting to do to breastfeed and then you can't, I mean, it is literally a physical way to nurture, you know, and your body or whatever reason is inhibiting that and you need to make that decision. I can see where that would be. Really challenging. Whereas maybe another type, it's like, yeah, you know, it is what it is. Um, but I can see how that could be really challenging for you. And again, making that decision is part of self care, but then you find out later it's actually helpful for others too. So it's like, You know, looking back, it's like, oh, that's beautiful. I'm sure in the moment it didn't quite feel that way. Okay, so you kind of posed a curious question to Olivia and Amy about having multiples. So can you kind of say that again? Because I kind of interrupted with all this other stuff. So what was it that you were curious about? I don't

Josephine: 23:23

I am just curious what goes through your guys's mind. How do you balance that love that you want to give? Um, maybe what was the moment where you've had to wrestle with that? And if you've got come to the other side, you know, um, cause I think that's still something I'm going through. And once I send my youngest to childcare as well, Someday, I feel like then I'll have to rebalance love again. I don't know. Yeah. But

Amy: 23:49

I can go. Um, so one thing that we do in our house is alternate nights for who puts each kid to bed. So. I, if I'm with the youngest, I'm with the oldest that same night. And then on the off nights, I'm with the middle because the oldest and the youngest don't have the same bedtime. So, um, we know that at least every other night we're getting. You know, 30 to 40 minutes of one on one time with each kid. That's helpful. I also think that my personal situation makes it a little bit easier because both of our jobs are flexible and neither, neither of us really travel for work. We're all home together by 5 PM every day. So we have a lot going in our favor to get some of that one on one time. Um, and then we do have a lot of like local family and friends. So we get to spend a lot of quality time in that way.

Beth: 24:35

And I think like, um, one question I have is when you have, cause you have your first and you're like, your heart just like is, Oh my gosh, a hundred percent. This one child. Now there's another child. I was like, okay, how do I, how do I split my heart? You know? And of course we all know that we, we, God gives us a new abundance, but our, our attention, our physical body, all the things it, it has to divide. They cannot give. You can't physically give the same amount to having two kids or four or nine kids. You know, there is a lack of ability. So that must be hard for two because you're wanting to give the same love and nurture and attention to all the children. And yet you can't. So is that kind of what you were saying, Josephine is

Josephine: 25:24

you said it. Yes. That way. Like, cause I'm always used to 110. Right. And then suddenly it's like, you can't and you know it, but you can't. So it's

Beth: 25:34

and then it's like, what if they know I'm not giving them what I used to give them? And

Josephine: 25:37

right.

Beth: 25:38

yeah.

Amy: 25:39

think, Oh, maybe I misinterpreted your question a little bit, but, um, I guess the quality time is how I make myself feel better about it, but I also think that my brain maybe doesn't, maybe the way that my two manifests isn't exactly the same because I have a two friend who was seriously like, how am I going to have another baby? Because there's not going to be enough love, you know, but. I didn't necessarily feel that I, I wonder if it's just because I grew up with siblings. I always wanted to give my kids siblings. So it was just kind of like, this is, this is a gift. I am giving my first child this enormous gift of a sibling. So I didn't, I didn't have the same struggle, but I do wonder what Olivia thinks.

Beth: 26:21

Yeah. Yeah.

Oliva: 26:29

he had colic and he was a very hands on baby. It was a very difficult, um, just transition in our life from Jay getting out of the military, moving back. And so, um, I feel like I, Was the same where I was able to devote a hundred percent of everything to him. And, um, part of it was cause I had to, because he was colicky and everything. Um, having Walker now, he is a much more relaxed baby. I'm very content. Not tonight. This is not a good representation. Um, but, um, I think Sawyer has had a little bit of a difficult transition with that of me having to give part of myself to Walker. And so I've constantly have been, um, reaffirming him and, you know, I'd love yous and quality time and whatnot. Um, and talking through those feelings of like, Well, Walker is a baby. He can't do anything. Like, I have to be there for him to help feed him and change his diaper and give him a bath and everything, and you're a big boy now. Like, you are able to do some of those things on your own. So, um, we're still trying to find the balance, um, in that. But I do love what you said, Josephine, about, um, not comparing your first to your second. Um, because I struggle with that sometimes of like, well with Sawyer I did this, and am I shortchanging Walker? Or am I shortchanging Sawyer because I'm doing this, you know, differently? Or, so, I do love that you said that. Um, that just, um, I need to write that on my wall. Don't compare the children to each other.

Beth: 28:07

Yeah, that's so true. Um, okay. So let's move into the realm of self care and I know we've kind of touched on it, but it's a really big deal for twos because the way the twos are created and designed, it's to focus on the emotions and needs of others. And that's a beautiful thing because you guys know what people's needs are. I mean, you have this superpower, you'd walk into a room and it's like, you just know, and. That's great. Unless you're not also taking care of yourself. And the reason twos typically negate themselves has to do with, they fear that if others see that they're caring for themselves versus another, because there's always need somewhere, then others are going to see them as being selfish and then reject them. Um, and. So it's really can be really challenging for the two to put themselves, quote, unquote, first at times so that they can care for themselves to get the replenishment and rejuvenation and refreshment to then come back to whether it's motherhood, work, um, Marriage, you name it to be their best. Um, and so whenever a two is moving towards something that is beneficial to them, it can really feel like, Oh, this feels really selfish. Other people are going to see it's selfish and they're not going to want it. Me as a friend or as a mom or whatever. Talk about how hard self care is and this constant drive to focus on others needs and to suppress your own emotions and needs as well.

Amy: 29:58

I can

Josephine: 29:58

So hard. Yeah. Go first.

Amy: 30:00

it's, it's so hard.

Beth: 30:01

Everyone's like, do I really have to go there?

Amy: 30:03

I feel like this is something that I've been trying to get better at because, and I think a couple of things have helped me with this one having an incredibly supportive partner and another having an incredibly supportive and involved mother. So. My mother has been very encouraging for us to get away at times. Um, it's even like for our 10 year anniversary, we went away for a week. Um, we went to New Zealand for a week for a friend's wedding, a very important friend to us. And we would not have been able to do that without her, but she almost had to like convince me to, Let her watch the kids for a week because I felt so selfish doing it. And I was worried that my siblings and my friends or my relatives were going to think I was selfish for doing it, even though she offered and wanted to. But she says, you have to take the trips. Like you can't, you can't just. Neglect yourself this entire time that your kids are small. And if there's opportunities, you know, your friends mean a lot to you. Um, then, then you should take them if you're able, you know, and. We, we really appreciate that and I do feel guilty, but I try to push that aside because it's no use getting time to yourself if you're going to spend the entire time beating yourself up, not letting yourself rest, not letting yourself enjoy it. That's a waste. So I've, we've gotten to practice that several times because of the family that we have. And, um, my siblings help watch the kids too. Um, so that, that's been great, but it's, I feel lazy and selfish a lot and I have to talk myself down from it.

Beth: 31:46

Yeah. What about you, Josephine or Olivia?

Josephine: 31:50

Um, yeah, you can go first if you have something.

Oliva: 31:54

Um, I guess the first thing that I think of with self care is I've had to make a standing appointment, um, to go get a pedicure every month. It started when I got pregnant with Walker and I was just overwhelmed with work and family life and being pregnant. And so my husband was like, you should just go get a pedicure, just get some Starbucks, go get a pedicure and come back. And That's like always the best. Um, cause I can get away for a little bit. I come back and I feel refreshed. Um, so that just kind of has carried over, you know, around the 15th of every month. I'm like, he said I'm going to get a pedicure.

Beth: 32:35

Yeah.

Oliva: 32:36

But I will say there are some times where I realized my cup is getting empty, but I don't want to ask for the help or I don't want to, you know, self care or whatever. And, um, I get really frustrated and I know my husband's not a mind reader, but I expect him to read my mind and be like, Hey, your cup isn't do you need to refill it? Um, so there are some times where I have to recognize. Um, and speak up for myself and I'm not perfect at it, uh, by any means, but I will realize and my husband will get home and I'll be like, I need to leave, I've got to go do something. I'll go to target or, you know, whatever, drive around for a little bit, pick up dinner or something just to get out of the house and kind of have that alone time to recharge. Um, but those are, I guess the main things that I think that I do as far as self care is considered. But I'm not good at it. Um, but I did have to put that boundary in place about Monthly pedicure. So,

Beth: 33:40

Yeah, I think that's amazing. Like that's hard to even put that on the calendar. I'll be honest. Like I've been working so much lately. I'm like, yeah, I need to put something on the calendar. So I don't really get it. Yeah. It's, it's really hard, especially at this age of life that you're at. I mean, those kiddos need you. And so it's not like it's easy just to go, you know, peace out. But having that on the calendar, being intentional, that is really amazing. So kudos to you. Um, Josephine, what's it been like for you?

Josephine: 34:11

Um, I think self care looked like me investing in becoming an Enneagram coach. I think that was something I felt like I missed like coaching or counseling as a teacher when I did college counseling. And I knew that part was a skill that I wanted to keep doing, even if my circumstance looked different. And so I think advocating for certain things like that, and also like a hobby of podcasting, right. But I think like investing in equipment. Stuff like that is like, that's money, that money. I'm not, you know, like there's a lot of thoughts that can go into my mind. So I think with those things, when I think about impact, then the self care can be a little bit more of a step I take forward in terms of like my self care, I'm still. Yeah, not good at that. Um, and an example of how I'm bad at that is like my husband really wanted to go to Japan from Korea. We went to Korea to visit my parents and then he wanted to go to Japan for a week, but I couldn't go for like my, like, that's too much. And so he went first because I know he really needed that whole week, but I went for three days. But when we would share with our friends, and that was important because he, we needed a time of marriage reconnection. So that's what sent me there. But even when I would share that with people, like I had to somehow say like, yeah, he went for a week and I, not in like a, but I only went for three days, but almost like, I think I did, you know, like, I don't know. And so I think

Beth: 35:38

Like, I don't think bad of me. I only went for three days. I didn't take the whole,

Josephine: 35:42

and like the, I forgot how much my husband snores, cause we kind of have to co sleep our first deal right now. And so like, there was like, yeah, my sleep wasn't that great because like, I forgot the other ones. I think like, I have to remind myself it's okay to just do, and I don't have to make these excuses and I'm still figuring that out transparently. I don't have that in terms of, um, like the physical needs. I'm not, I'm still not good at that. Yeah.

Beth: 36:06

Yeah. And it's a lifetime process. I mean, it's kind of like us nines, you know, how long have I been doing the Enneagram since 2001? And if you were to ask me right now, Beth, what is your desire for the next five years? I'm going to look at you like a deer in headlights. And it's going to take me a while to get there because I'm a nine and I have that internal fog that is just the way it is. So I don't have to feel shame about what is, but I also don't want to just stay there, you know? And so. It's great to hear that you guys are taking steps, even if they feel at times like little ones, they are, they are big because they're hard and all growth is hard. And so anytime we make a step in that direction, especially when we've got little kiddos and it's not easy, it is a big deal. And, um, so really good job guys. I know, I know it's super hard. I know. Yes, you have quote unquote, a long ways to go, but we all do. Um, okay. So Let's see.

Amy: 37:07

Could I jump in with, um, just like I was, I was just thinking this kind of supports the idea of how the Enneagram can really help us through these times. Because if we understand why we are the way we are, then we're more likely to be able to do something about it. So I was thinking about how we go to tend to go towards a type eight and stress. And that can be. Good or bad, depending on which parts of the eight we're embodying. And so I know about myself, if I'm feeling stressed and I'm feeling like I haven't gotten, you know, any time for myself or things are bubbling up or from overwhelmed, I'm more likely to yell at my children. I'm more likely to. Not be empathetic towards them to be less patient or whatever, but that just kind of supports that idea that we do need to do things for ourselves, because it's actually not just for ourselves. It is for the betterment of our families. And. That if that if some people need that reframe almost for the permission

Josephine: 38:11

Yeah.

Amy: 38:11

do

Beth: 38:12

Oh, absolutely. I think reframing is essential. Actually. It's not just a good idea. I think it's essential because your problem is not your problem. Your problem is your perspective on the problem. So, you know, if I think, Oh, well I have to make everyone happy. Then I I'm gonna, there's going to be self sabotage with that, right? Because I cannot make everyone happy. I mean, you guys have more than one child, you know, it's just, it's impossible, but I keep striving to do that. Well, that's my perspective. That is the default of the nine. But that's only hindering me. And so I need to bring in the right perspective that, Hey, if everyone ends up being happy, that's amazing. But I don't, as a mom have to make everyone happy in order to feel okay. Like I just need to do what's healthy and good and right for everyone. And that's what makes me a really good mom. But I'll be honest. My whole body doesn't feel that way. My whole body is screaming something else and something different, but I have to also change my mindset. And so the same with you guys, it's absolutely essential that you realize taking care of yourself has a positive ripple effect on the lives of your family, your friends, your community. Um, and so, which actually is the very thing that the type two wants, right? Like you want to benefit others. And so by actually. Blessing yourself with self care. You're actually helping others. So I love that you brought that up, Amy. That's really important.

Josephine: 39:48

you know, I did a panel with nines recently and one of them was talking about how oh yeah conflict is a muscle to practice and I just never practiced it and I was like because even for me marrying a nine I like sometimes I welcome conflict and it's that's like a different topic but I'm realizing like self care is It's a muscle. I've never practiced, right? And I think even hearing Olivia, it's hard for you to do those pedicures, but now you know, the 15th, it's a habit that you've had to muscle in. And so I think that's what I'm definitely taking in is like, even just to schedule it, even if I don't think I need it, but not waiting until that urgency is there, but almost that muscle practice is something I'm thinking about

Beth: 40:26

Like reps, right? Like we need reps. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Okay. So as we wrap it up, you know, there's going to, like I said, there's moms out there that are just finding out that they're type twos or they don't even know they're type twos, but they're listening. They're going, oh my gosh, this is. Sounds just like me. This is kind of scary. How do they know me? You know how the enneagram is, but then there's going to be moms like my daughter, who's a type two, who has a two month old and what do you, like, if you were with yourself back when your child was young, What would you say to that type two or any type two that's a mom? Cause it can be even like someone like me, an empty nester, and you know, they're still having the same, you know, type two head trash or shame or issues or whatever it is. What would you say to the type two to encourage them?

Oliva: 41:19

I'll chime in because this is heavy on my heart. It's okay to ask for help. I didn't ask for help with my first. And like I was saying, it was a difficult transition with My husband getting out of the military, moving back, um, he had colic. I ended up having postpartum depression. And so I just kind of stayed in this, my own little bubble, uh, we're just going to chug through. And, uh, looking back, I realized. Not only was I hurting myself, but I was hurting, you know, everybody around me. And, um, so when I was pregnant with Walker, I was like, we're going to do things differently this time. And I think, um, I've done a better job this time around. Um, and I think that I, Cause I don't like asking for help at all. But when it comes to like parenting mom stuff, I'm more okay with asking for help because of what I suffered through with Sawyer. And, um, I don't want anybody to have to go through that. So if there are people out there struggling, which I'm sure there are, um, postpartum colic, all the things, you know, just being overwhelmed, having two kids or more kids or one kid, whatever it is okay to ask for help. Um, and I wish somebody would have told me that sooner, or made it more of a point to, um, relay that, I guess.

Beth: 42:49

Yeah. And I'll just chime in there just because I can think of one mom in particular who is a type two and she's an empty nester now, but she said it was so hard becoming an empty nester as a type two because her whole, and a lot of moms, you know, their whole life is wrapped up in, you know, their, their children. But for the two, it's really about that connection piece. And. Here they go. You know, they fly out of the nest and it's like, where's my identity now? And will I have connection? Do they appreciate, you know, what I've given to them? You know, there's just so many things that, and then of course, then you want to like insert yourself, but now they're adults, you know? So I'm just saying even. I'm just chiming in for those moms out there that have older kids and you're fearing empty nesting or you are an empty nester as a type two, ask for help too. It may look totally different, the kind of help that you need, but just having other like moms to cheer you on to validate you is so important as well. Um, Josephine or Amy, what about you? What would you say?

Josephine: 43:54

If you have

Amy: 43:54

so I could speak to probably both moms, like moms that are coming towards the empty nester and moms that are in the very beginning, in the very beginning, my best advice is to talk about it ahead of time if possible, or if you've already had your baby as now, especially with your partner. Like, Because I know it is hard to reach out to other people for help. But if you talk to the people that are closest to you about your needs and it's open lines of communication there, then they can actually help you ask others for help. Like one thing that I tell pregnant moms to do is to delegate the task of setting up a meal train for you for postpartum. So it's like your best friend or your sister will help you. Kind of contact your inner circle for you and say, okay, we're going to create a schedule. You're going to bring a meal over this day. You're going to bring a meal over this day. And if the new mom is ready for visitors and wants them, that's great. If not, the meal can be left on the doorstep. Kind of doing that preparation can set yourself up for such success. And kind of going back to the trips that my husband and I have been taking, our friends mean a lot to us. We are very social. I'm an extrovert. And Maintaining and cultivating our friendships is extremely important to us. And so as we raise our kids and as they get to that empty nest phase, like we don't want to be empty nesters and then go, who do we have? If we're not parents, like we really try to, um, foster our own interests in addition to being parents and not just throw our whole identity into that because there will be a time where you're going to be an empty nester. So this is another reason to take care of yourself now and foster your own interests and your own friendships so that you're not feeling that like crazy identity crisis in the end of that time. Just like we kind of feel an identity crisis in the very beginning as well. I

Beth: 45:46

Yes, that is so true. It's absolutely true. And it feels like when you're in it, like the kids will never grow up. Like they're never going to leave, you know, but they do. And it actually happens way faster than you realize not in the moment. But then later you're like, Whoa, wait, what just happened? So yes, I totally agree. Don't waste the time, foster those connections, um, with your friends, but also your spouse. And then that has a ripple effect also for your kids as well. Josephine, what about you? Well,

Josephine: 46:19

your identity comes from. I think it's so natural for us to walk into this mother identity because it is natural for us. And, um, I think at times when it's good, like I feel that that is where I'm, this is where I'm supposed to be. And this is such a gift from God, but also at the same time, when things are hard, that can get questioned. If my, like my identity is not rooted where to be. And so I think just like, you know, practicing that. I also think just being okay. If you don't enjoy parts of being a mom, and I think you don't have to like, get feel shame by yourself. If like, you don't enjoy the late night feeds. And, um, I remember one time I decided, well, if I'm not going to be able to give my baby the same type of, um, like, Breastfeeding experience. Like I'm going to make a stash. I'm going to like, you know, like do as much as I can. And then none of it was taken, right? Like it was like the my pace thing. If someone is going through that, right. Like, but my, my older son took it. So I thought, Oh, it's my, you know, like I, I even tested it before, but I think when I, when I saw that stash, I would look at like, Oh, failure, like failure, like waste of time, waste of mental health, like, because that that's like at the, you know, all of these things. Um, but I think like, you know. At the end of the day, like I think you know that your feelings are validated. God is with you in those really dark times where like no one might understand, but that just feels like the lowest time you can be in. And then also there is a, there is an end to that tunnel. And just like holding onto that identity is so important. Um, and so I would say, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what kind of advice that is, but I think I was listening to you guys and, Affirming that, yes. Mm hmm.

Beth: 47:59

know that all the twos out there are totally understanding. So you know, that is what they need to hear and to be validated and be like, okay, I'm not the only one, you know, out here feeling this or experiencing this. Yeah.

Amy: 48:11

think Beth, you also mentioned like creating. Or something about mom communities or like

Josephine: 48:16

hmm.

Amy: 48:18

joining a community of moms in some way. And that might look like connecting with friends from high school in a similar phase of life to you or joining a Facebook group that aligns with you and isn't going to stress you out. Um, or any, anything that you can do to find solidarity, because that is what we do is we empathize and find solidarity. So if we can, yeah, get that feedback from someone else, And then feel comfortable enough to be able to them. You know, I had a deal with two of my friends from high school. You can text any time of day or night because if I'm up at one and then you're up at three, I'll see your text and gosh, I feel like that saved me in some

Josephine: 48:56

Mm hmm.

Beth: 48:57

yeah, for sure. Yeah. And we are launching any gram for mom cohorts. So there'll be a cohort for each and every any gram type. And when this releases, it's actually the last day of registration. Um, And so our hope is that moms that are type twos, you know, they're, they're together, like, like you guys are right now. And it's like, Oh my gosh, yes. And then you guys can go back and forth and talk and learn, and then explore your type two ness and, or three or four, whoever, you know, whatever group it is, but to have a safe place where people, moms can come together that are like minded. Um, I think is so important because so often moms are trying to give really good advice, but they're bringing it from their types perspective and it could totally miss the mark. Like a three giving me a type nine advice and I've had plenty of them bless their heart. They're amazing, but I do not have the same ambition and energy and Lots of things that they have. They're amazing, but that is, that's just not who I am, but I've tried a lots of times to be something that I'm not, and it just doesn't work. It's exhausting. Then of course, shame and guilt come in if I'm trying to be something I'm not. So we wanted to create a safe place for. moms to be able to come together that are the same type to get that support, that validation, um, and the guidance from a certified Enneagram coach that is skilled in parenting itself. Um, and so that's what we've designed and I'm really excited. So we're going to do our first, uh, Set of groups are cohorts, uh, this summer, and then we'll see how it goes. And then hopefully we'll continue to have these. Uh, so those that are listening, if you get to jump in this cohort season, great. If not, um, there'll be prayerfully others to come, um, to bring support right where you're at. So I'm really excited to everyone.

Amy: 51:00

opportunity for moms. I mean, cause you're so right. I mean the advice cannot be given in the blanketed ways, like pretty much for anything, but man, for motherhood. Absolutely.

Beth: 51:12

Cause like what you guys are saying today is literally life giving to the other type two moms. Now, is it helpful for moms in general? Yeah. I mean, there's going to be lots of things that you said today that are in general are really good things, but it's not going to hit the same as a type two mom that's listening for them. This is gold. You know, it is going to be something that they're going to listen to over and over and over again, because it means so much to them to have someone else speak the same language, to see the world from the same lens. So I'm really excited to see how this all goes. Um, Yeah, I'm sure it will go great because the moms will come together and they will do like you guys are doing today and banter back and forth. And, um, I've done groups before, but it wasn't a mom group. It was just kind of like just the type group and they tend to stay in their groups for a long period of time. Cause like, you know, like a Facebook group and they'll continue that relationship because they get each other and they develop deep friendships and understanding. I'm really excited. Um, well guys, thanks so much for, um, just being with me today. Thank you, Walker, for being here. Um, you guys are really amazing. The, the gifts that you bring as a type two mom are incredible. Um, God created you to be a two for all the different types of kids that you do have, you know, you're made just the way he designed you to be. So thank you for, um, being you, but also showing up today. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much for having Thank you. Thank you. Bye.

Josephine: 52:47

Bye.

Amy: 52:48

Bye.

Beth: 52:49

Wow. I am so glad that you were here today to listen to these amazing type two moms. And I hope that you really got to understand the viewpoint of a type two. You know, being a mom is really challenging, but I think it's really important for all of us to see how it's challenging for the different types, but also what do we bring? That's incredible. Well, I think today you found that out with our type two moms. They were amazing, but don't you want a supportive community like that? Moms who truly get you where you can be authentic and real. Well, join our any grandpa moms cohorts. Today is the last day to register May 13th, and there's only 25 spots for each group. So you don't want to miss out, go to your Enneagram coach. com forward slash cohorts to get a spot today, but also don't forget that my new book, Enneagram for Moms releases July 9th, but you can pre order it now. And the reason you'd want to do that. is because you'll get exclusive bonuses by getting your book. So get your Enneagram for Moms book today and get your exclusive bonuses at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash pre order. All right, guys, I can't wait to meet you in the cohorts this summer, but you gotta sign up right now at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash cohorts. I'll see you then. And next week, we'll get to hear three. Type three moms. Yep. You get to hear from the type threes. Can't wait. See you there.