Beth: 0:00

Hey everyone. Welcome to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I'm Beth McCord, your Enneagram coach. And in this series, we are talking to moms of the same type. So this week we're going to talk to three type three moms. We're going to listen to the journey of being a mom and what it's like in the ups and downs. Cause so often moms feel alone. I'm Which is why I wrote my new upcoming book, Enneagram for Moms. It's gonna come out July 9th, and you can pre-order the book now@enneagramformoms.com. Again, so many of us feel alone, and so I wanna to create a safe place for you to learn what it's like to be a mom of a certain type. So in this series, we're gonna be talking to a mom of every type. But not only that, today's the last day for you to register for our Enneagram for Moms cohorts. There are only 25 spots for each of the nine types, though we do have one in the daytime and one in the evening. When the spots are gone, they're gone. You can find more information at your Enneagram coach. com forward slash cohorts, but register today because you will find deep, meaningful friendships with moms of the Same Enneagram type who get you, they understand you and they want to cheer you on. Okay. Well, let's dive in to today. Let's talk to our type three moms. I am so excited for you to meet them right now. All right, guys, we, here we are with the type three moms and we've got two of them. And I really cannot wait for you guys to hear this real authentic conversation. We were talking before we got on here about how they wish they had this many years ago. So I can't wait for you to hear from two type three moms that are just authentic and real in this space. So can you guys introduce yourselves to everyone here? Whoever wants to go

Dianna: 2:05

will jump in there. So, um, my name is Diana Clevenger and, um, I am a type three mom. My husband and I, Jeff, have been married for 29 years. We have nine biological kiddos. Um, our oldest is 25 and married. And then we've got a 23-year-old and married, and then we have one that's 18 and graduating college actually, um, in just a few weeks. And then at home we have six, um, six at home ranging from ages 16 to six. So life is busy. We have six girls and three boys. Um, we own and operate our own business. We both, my husband is a type eight, so, um, it's a three and an eight. Uh powerhouse we call it And and so we open and operate our own business also in full time ministry together Um getting ready actually to relocate our family to the country of nicaragua Um in about two years to be full time missionaries there So life is lots of fun and lots of challenges and all the in betweens here.

Beth: 3:17

Yeah, you guys definitely are a powerhouse. That is for sure. Um, that's so fascinating. Thanks for sharing. And I know that I have 1001 questions, so we'll get to that, um, in a second, but, uh, let's, let's go and, uh, meet the next type three

Dina: 3:35

Hi, my name is Dina Smith. Um, I'm a type three and, um, I have a husband, um, Chuck. We've been together about 14 years. Um, we have a six year old daughter and a two and a half year old son. Um, we live in Florida. Um, I am the director of clinical services for a, um, an addiction treatment center. In Florida, and I've been there for about 12 years. I'm a licensed therapist, and, um, the Enneagram has definitely influenced my parenting and, um, kind of my relationships here with my family for sure. Um, we are, um, Members of our local church right up the road. Um, we're very involved. I'm in the choir. I'm on the praise team. Um, we do a lot of service work there. So our kids are involved. Um, and it's, it's actually where the Enneagram was first introduced to me along, a few years

Beth: 4:40

That's great. Oh my gosh, that's so fun. So yeah, let's start there. Just tell me a little bit about your guys's journey and learning about the Enneagram. And then we'll dive in more specifically on kind of like what it's like to be a type three mom. But what's your journey with the Enneagram and how, how that been helpful? So Diana, why don't we start with

Dianna: 5:00

Yeah. Um, so for me, it was actually in ministry. I was doing women's ministry and I was actually teaching a class that was, um, about just finding your heart, your purpose, your dreams, that type thing And so I come across, um, just some basic information. That I was doing on, um, finding that passion and purpose in your life. And that was probably about five years ago. And so it was really, um, it was really just fun for me, especially taking a group of ladies through that to really just kind of discover more of who they were, um, kind of just, and left it and I kind of dove deep in and so, um, it was, it was just very interesting to me. And so for many years, I actually was mistyped. And so, um, and it wasn't probably until about two years ago when I was just really diving into just, um, evaluating myself and where I was at. I found that I was actually mistyped. mistyped. I was, um, thought I was a two for all time and then found, um, when I, when I did a deep dive that I was really a three in the heart of hearts of it all. So,

Beth: 6:16

well, I'm sure you use a lot of two with the two wing right there, so, and that makes a lot of sense. Twos, that use a lot of three or threes that use a lot of two, that can be an easy mistyping for

Dianna: 6:28

yeah, but it is definitely, it has been a game changer me, Um, just especially in the last two years of really evaluating what I do and why I do it, why I parent the way I do, why I relate to my husband the way we do. Um, and it really, it has really been a game changer in parenting and marriage.

Beth: 6:49

Well, Well, that's going to be so much fun to hear more that. Dina, what about you? What's your journey like?

Dina: 6:55

So, um, I participated in. some kind of like women's day of workshops at church and one of the workshops was about the Enneagram And she gave us a booklet and had all the things about you know why it's okay as a Christian to use the Enneagram and, Kind of a little bit about each type and I I that was about three or four years ago And I kind of just did that one Workshop and it was like okay moving on and then You where I work, it was kind of, it was reintroduced to me, um, as part of some trainings that got brought in house and things we were doing with my team and things we were doing to help, um, you know, the patients that we serve. Um, and it was right around the time that I was, um, of recreating, um, my relationship with Christ and, and looking at, I'm just going to go ahead and start typing in the chat. I know we're all getting baptized and it was all happening at the same time. Which was great. And when. When the instructor first talked about all the types. I, it was really hard for me to, to, to be typed between a one and a three, because of how often there was types. And when I really started listening to her about type three and she gave us all this information. I basically wanted to throw up and I was like, oh, okay, this is this is This is my type of female experience me. and this is, this is what, this is what's kind of, um, gone well being a type three and what has not gone well being a type three. And so, um, that kind of started my journey, um, with it. And, and then, you know, I'm like full fledged in, you know, I did the, uh, your program to become a coach and it's just, it's really infiltrated all my relationships

Beth: 8:50

Yeah. Well, that's exciting. Yeah, and I've heard many a times, it's almost like when you feel like a gut punch, as you know. Hit you. You're like, Oh, that's probably my type. I mean, and that's just at the beginning, cause there's so many beautiful things about all of the nine types, but we're very aware, aware and attuned to great parts of ourselves and to have like, like neon light in front of us, you know, like so clear it's like, Ooh, gross, though, I don't want to know that. So, okay. So yeah, let's take a little bit deep dive. What let's start with the, what are the strengths of That you bring as a type like, and we're not just talking about just one, but like, really like, where do you excel and like, how do you know, or where do you bless your family type

Dianna: 9:41

Oh goodness. For me, um, Having what we call the supersized family. We kind of laugh all of our, all of our friends call us the the super sized McDonald's family. But, um, I can adapt very quickly to things, um, which is super important in the age group that we have. And also, um, just accomplishing like people come to my house and they're just like, Oh my gosh, like you get so much accomplished so fast. However. it's not a great thing. I mean, it's great for me, but not great for the other 10 people in my house, um, because I do like, I have this high level of expectation that we should be efficient and get things done quickly and just move right along and, um, I, when it shocked me, it was when one of our kiddos was asked for like a mother's day thing at school, like, what does your mother love the most? What does she like to eat? But one of the things was, what is your mother say the most? And my like six year old said, hurry up. on my mother's and Oh, out that really, because then I started thinking about it and it was so true. Like, I think I must tell my kids a hundred times a day. Hurry up. Let's go. Hurry up. Let's get

Beth: 10:57

Yeah. Now to be fair, which I don't doubt that that's not true, even if you had two but to be fair, you have nine. If one of them is lagging or two, it's going to take forever to get anything done. So yeah. to be

Dianna: 11:15

I

Beth: 11:15

had to just laugh. I was like, what does your mother say the most hurry up. I was like,

Dianna: 11:18

yes,

Beth: 11:18

yes it is. That that'd be so interesting. I have got to ask my kids. What, what is it that I say the most? It's I'm trying to to think like they would probably say probably something to the effect of like, done. Like, or out, He you know, as a type nine, it's like too much. I'm too overwhelmed. I'm out. I bet that's, it'll be really interesting to see what they say. Okay. Um, uh, Dina, what about you? How do so

Dina: 11:54

So I would definitely say the efficiency part, um, and Like multitasking, um, to get things done, I think is definitely a strength. Um, that's, I just think like the, I mean, I'm very organized. like, always looking ahead. So I know what's coming. I know what we need to work on. You know, it's just a very forward moving situation with me. Um, so I would say those are a couple of the strengths and, you know, the, um, I mean, my kids are six and two, so I don't know what they would say. I know I say hurry up a lot. Um, and I know, I know more than hurry up. I probably say, go, like, let's get moving. Yeah,

Beth: 12:45

Yes. yeah. Okay. so. With that. So yeah, you know, type threes, you guys are super efficient, you're goal oriented. You love to check things get things done in a fast, efficient manner, um, but also do it, you know, with excellence, right? Like you don't want it, you want it done really well. Now it's not like the type one where it has to be. Um, ethically and morally perfect though, you know, you might enjoy that too, but it's like, let's get it done and do a great job. You know, we're going to nail this thing. And so those are all in the adaptability, um, is great. And it's, what's interesting, it's not so much flexibility. It's adaptability. Wouldn't you guys agree? Because there's a difference between flexibility because flexibility is like, sure, you know, we'll just roll with whatever, like highs, lows, whatever. Threes are like, no, we're not going to roll with the lows. We're going with the highs and I'll adapt to that situation there. Is that

Dianna: 13:41

Yeah,

Beth: 13:41

absolutely.

Dina: 13:43

Definitely.

Beth: 13:44

Definitely. Um, And so you guys really have, you know, just so much to offer. Like, you know, in the busy season that you guys are in, you can keep up the pace and where's like, for me, it's like, I'm overwhelmed, you know, um, that's how it feels all the time inside. Um, Now, that doesn't mean I don't get things done. It's just that feeling of, uh, that's so different than what you guys are going to So those are some of the highs and there's many more, but let's also talk about the struggles that you guys have as a mom. And I just want people that are listening to one of the core fears of a type three is being exposed. And so I just really want to say thank you for you guys being here, knowing how important this conversation is to all the type three moms or dads. Um, and then those that have type threes in their lives, just to really hear the conversation we talked before we got on here, like what would be Be the conversation you would have with yourself many years ago or a couple of years ago. It doesn't really matter, but what did you need to hear? And I really appreciate that. That's really why you guys, and it's not that you're just doing it for yourself, but like, you know, there's people out there that really need the information you wish you had had. So I just want to say first and foremost, thank you for being here and literally stepping into one of your core fears. Cause as we all know, we avoid our core at all costs. Most of the time, It'd be like, you guys have a conflict with me right now and I have to sit here. It'd be like, I'm out of here Again, the words I'm out. Um, so anyway, I just wanted to set the stage for that. So, um, Diana, what would you, know, say, you know, kind of just pulling back the curtain has been some of the biggest struggles for you that maybe people that know, you never knew it was. that hard.

Dianna: 15:37

Um, definitely for me is slowing down. Um, it's been a big thing for me. Everybody who knows me, they will tell you Diana runs on eight cylinders, 24 hours a day. Um, so slowing down has been a big, big challenge for me. The other,

Beth: 15:55

does, sorry, but where does slowing where is it asked or demanded of you? Because I think that's really, that would be really insightful for people to know, oh yeah, that makes

Dianna: 16:08

Yeah. So one of the big things, um, for me, like somewhere in my mind, along the path of growing up, taking a nap became a sin. like my husband said, like, you think in your mind that taking a nap is a sin. And he's like, why can't you just, rest? Um, instead of having your mind going 90 miles an hour all the guilt of what I should be doing instead of just being like, okay, it's Sunday afternoon that can wait. Um, so I have gotten a lot better at that, but it's still, it's still a struggle.

Beth: 16:43

And then And just to preface, sorry to interrupt you one more time, just to preface, that is a type eight Yes, it's definitely true. I mean, that means you are really going at because AIDs are always going too. And if he's telling you to slow you're really going, girl.

Dianna: 17:04

Yeah. And he's like, listen, like you've got to stop. But, um, and I've learned, like, I really have learned. I've learned to rest in the fact that even Jesus rested. And so so that has been so important for me. It's been so important me to look at the attributes that we have been given through Jesus and be like, you know, like he rested and it was okay. He said, I need to get away from. All these people and all this stuff and it was okay. So I've learned to rest in that and also, um, not being defined by what I do. That has been a big thing for me and where that became, um, and where I became more enlightened with that thought. Was when we started having, um, young adult kids and going from that thought process of if you do all the right things, well, you know, like three is think that we're just going to do it all. And we're going to do it all right. Um, started having. You know, teenagers and then teenagers who left the nest and they're not doing it my way anymore. and They're doing, it's not that they're sinning or that they're doing things wrong. They're just not doing it the way I see it. and so I had a real coming to moment with Jesus when he said, your children do not define who you are. Your adult don't define you. Your husband doesn't define you. Oh, your job doesn't define you. Your ministry doesn't define you. Only I define who you are. And that was a real big moment for me because, um, I too, like I took the Enneagram test like 10 times. Cause I didn't want to be a type three, like time I did it, I'm like, Nope, I'm something else. And so I kept retaking it and I'm like, this is not going well for me. Um, because it came back the same way every time. But, um, really when, when I finally heard that voice say to me, like, I define you for who I created you to be and not all of the things that you do or accomplish or want to be seen as it was really a game changer for me.

Beth: 19:23

Yeah. And even to piggyback on on that, yes, your identity is Christ, which means all of his accomplishments are and boy, did he achieve everything we needed to achieve. And so it, it's. You get to add achievements to your identity, but they're the perfect achievements, um, is really cool and amazing. Yeah. I really love that because One, I I can totally understand how the slowing down is hard, which, you know, in motherhood, we rarely. Even have the opportunity to slow down, which I think we'll get to here in a little bit, really goes into the point of self-care for moms. But all the nine types need to do self-care differently. So we'll get to that'cause I'd love to hear how you guys have understood what self-care looks like for you guys and how you've navigated that. but yeah, so thank you for sharing, you know, um, that part for you. Dina, what about you? What would you

Dina: 20:30

So I I would definitely say, if I had to talk to my younger self or a mom that's a type three that's struggling right now, I would definitely say for me, one thing that has been really hard is kind of reframing what. you Being productive means, um, I have a little bit of that. Um, like the workaholic kind of thing. always, you know, checking my messages, always checking my Um, I was off today. I'm responding to, you know, things at work and that really knowing my Enneagram type and, you know, learning the wings and, and learning all of that. Really opened my eyes to like, wow, I'm, I'm missing connection with my kids. Um, because I'm preoccupied with being productive in that way, like clear the messages, clear the emails, like don't have any, you know, notifications on, you know, um, And that was being productive. And now I'm trying to really look at being productive as like, yeah, if I spend an extra. Five or 10 minutes, you know, sitting with my daughter, listening to her about, you know, whatever she wants to tell me happened at school or at aftercare and making, you know, that's like, that's built into our routine already, but making extra time for it where she clearly needs time, or, you know, when my two and a half year old says. Mommy, I miss you. And I'm like here and I'm like, Oh my goodness, I'm just going to stop what I'm doing and like do a puzzle with you. Um, but really that's not something that comes as a habit for me or automatic for me. Um, it's not a strength that I'm like, Oh, let me stop what I'm doing and be productive in this way, in terms of like fulfilling that part of my relationship with my kids. God chose these children for me and I want to honor that. And they, they need my attention in that way, but it's, it's, it is really hard as a type three to kind of shut that off and change that, like, Oh, like, I don't have to constantly be doing, checking the boxes, um, focused on my own agenda. I need to have more mindfulness about, like, these things. Relationships here. Um, and that was, that was weird for me, honestly, because the three there in the heart tried and I was like, Oh, this should come easier. Right. So, Um, so that's, that's one thing I would say, just like reframing, you know, what is productivity mean? And, and looking at like, looking at the people around you and kind of trying to put on, you know, how are they viewing me right How are they

Beth: 23:13

Yeah. Well, I love that you said that because in the last episode with type two moms, we were talking about reframing the messages in our mind. And I was saying, cause they were talking about it. I said, it's actually essential that we do that, but we do it for our type and what our type false messages are. So, uh, for them, you know, the false messages. You can't ask for help. you know, have to figure it out all on your own. And, you know, it's like, okay, no, actually, and then don't have self care because that's Well, we know, but that's not a true, but to them, it feels so accurate and true. But if they change the framework in their mind that by asking for help and doing self care. It actually is going to bless their family and their friends and their community because they'll be recharged and refreshed. So what's in their mind is saying, I'll be rejected. People will think I'm selfish when we're all like, no, like that's a healthy thing to do. And we want you to do that. And so it's the same for you, you know, as a type three, but you have your own reframing that is vital. And so for you, it's like, okay. You, God made type threes to be Yes. I I totally agree with what Diana you're saying is slowing down you taking time to basically quote unquote, smell the roses, enjoy life, be in the moment with people. So totally agree with that, but you're also, Created to be productive. So it's not, we we don't want to paint the picture. And not that you guys are at all saying this, we don't want to paint the picture that three shouldn't be productive or, you know, constantly moving forward. God created you to do that, but it's always in a balance. Right. And so then what does productivity look like? Yes. Productivity does look like getting your kids, their vaccine shots and getting their school supplies and doing all those things. But it's also like you were saying, playing with your kid and doing a puzzle, you know, there's, and it's not just doing that out of it, checking it off the list, but the productivity is how can I be present and connect with my child? Like me feel that because if if you're feeling the connection, then they're going to be feeling the connection too. And so again, it's the reframing of the mind to help your mind that naturally thinks a certain way to be able to go Oh yeah. I get it. Like I can do that. Like that makes sense. Whereas, and this is why I love the Enneagram and what we're doing with the Enneagram for moms and parents is that most advice out there and parenting books, it's just a general, this is how you should do it. And it doesn't fit all the nine types. Cause maybe the person who's writing or speaking as a type one, and that's not going to land on a three in the same way as what a three would be speaking to another about. Yeah. And so this is so important for us. And that's why you all being here today is so crucial because it helps the threes to hear. Yes, I totally do that. And, oh, that's a great idea. So really appreciate you guys, you know, chiming in with that. What has has been the hardest adjustment? As a parent, because you know, I'm sure you guys killed it in reading all the books or getting of the information and planning and preparing, and you're just going to kill it as a mom, and then you get the newborn. What was was like?

Dianna: 26:42

Um, for me, actually, it took a big twist. So my husband and I, uh, were married. We were married five years. We were running a business in ministry full time. And then, um, yeah, our first born came along, which funny enough, her name is Grace. I laugh we got to the on purpose, um, because it taught me a lot about having grace. But, um, I spiraled out into, um, postpartum depression severely, um, very quickly after she was born. And I could not process that because as a three, I thought like I was ready. I read all the books. I had everything done. I was, you know, I was the oldest of six. So like, it wasn't like I wasn't around kids. Like, I just thought in my mind, I have this. nailed And, um, I did not like, I, I spiraled out so quickly and, um, dealt with that for the first year and it was really a struggle. It was really a struggle when, um, my midwife looked me in the eye and they were like, you have to go to counseling. And I was like, I don't need counseling. I'm great. And, and they're like, no, you have to go. And, um, I went and I was just like, okay. And they told me like, this just got you here sooner because eventually you would have landed here anyways. And they don't know how to stop, and you don't know how to, um, just, they know, and you just keep, and I was just exhausted, physically exhausted, emotionally exhausted, um, she was born five weeks premature, so, whole nother wrench into it, because that was not part of my plan. Like that's not part like it was not part of our plan to have a five week old premature baby. And so, um, there was just so much grace. And I just found that God just taught me really quickly that you have to, you have to learn to lean into that. and I think as. For parenting, it's been kind of like the mantra of my life is, can you breathe in my grace? Can you breathe out my grace? And can you just trust? And I think for a type three, that trust is just a big deal. Not so much, um, with trust issues, but just trusting outside of yourself And what you can do and accomplish. And so, um, it taught me a lot as that young, that young mom who could just, you know, do everything I was like, really fast

Beth: 29:16

When you went into the postpartum depression, I'm just guessing, but I would would love to hear from you. I'm assuming a lot of shame welled Is that something you experienced?

Dianna: 29:28

Oh, absolutely. In fact, the shame was so bad. Um, I drove, we drove an hour and a half to see a therapist that I had to see twice week. I was mandated by it. The doctors in the clinic that, um, I had to go twice a week to see a therapist did that. But then where it really became shameful is that, um, in that time, our oldest is 25. So 25 years back up, the whole antidepressant scenario was really shamed among, um, the Christian, Um, church and because I was in the street, it was like almost like double shame. Telling my husband, you cannot pick up my, my medication locally. You have to drive like an hour away to get it to some doesn't know me. And he literally would drive to another city an hour away. To pick my meds because I was so shamed that somebody in the pharmacy would know And I would be you know, like that was just in my mind. That was just such a terrible terrible thing

Beth: 30:33

and

Dianna: 30:33

um, you know as my husband Being an eight. He just could not even understand that he was just like I don't understand what the big deal is with this He's like the doctor told you to take it people take insulin. Why can't you do this? And i'm like this Equivalent to failure for me Like Like you can't handle being a mom. This your first baby and you do all these other things so well And now you're having to take medication to like in my mind to cope and to you know, just get through every day So it was a big um, it was a it was a lot. It was a probably a really good thing. I was in counseling

Beth: 31:07

Well, yeah. And, and I know for a lot of theories, going to a counselor is really, really hard because it almost, no matter what the reason is, because in their mind, it feels like I failed. I have to go see a counselor and going to get a coach is different, right? Um, Yeah. counselor hard for a three. And so, and like you said, you were mandated to do it. Um, now if you could go back the 25 years ago. Now that you're on this side, I'm sure you can see all the beautiful things that God did in that process, how you grew all those things. What would would you, you know, say to that younger self? Like here, she is feeling so much shame, um, making her husband drive, you know, so it's not as easy as like, Hey, buck it up. You're fine. You know, like what, what did she

Dianna: 32:01

Um, so it's funny because I've actually had this same conversation with our daughter, our oldest daughter had the baby, um, a year and a ago. And I sat with her and I told her like the exact conversation was like, you are enough and you are loved for who you are. And don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to say, I'm tired. Don't be afraid to say, you know, Hey mom, can you come for a week and help me out? Um, it was, you know, it was just having that conversation with her and then finding myself so sensitive. To watching um, and I have found that with more than just my daughter young moms in our church young moms in our circle I just watch so carefully To just see you know where they're at And to make sure i'm jumping in there to be like, are you okay? And when they say yeah, i'm great No, I don't really think you are. I mean, cause I was that person, you know, are you okay? Yeah, I'm fine. No I wasn't And um, but just to be that person who really is observant Of these young moms and and my husband even with young dads Like your wife is not okay And you guys aren't okay and you need to ask for help or you need to come for dinner Or you need to let someone bring you a meal or you need to let the person come clean your house. Um, it's okay. Like it's okay. You don't have to do it all. And we go back to that same line of God's grace is always enough. Like for a moment, it may be for a day, it may be for a month. But it's always right there. And so it's learning to lean into that and not only to just hear it, but to embrace it has, I just think if young moms and dads could get that, um, it really would change their outlook on how much they have to do instead of letting God do.

Beth: 33:59

Oh, it's that's so good. Thank you for sharing that. Do you know, what about

Dina: 34:04

Um, so I can definitely relate to the shame piece. Um, I was not that young of a mom. Um, I'm about to be 42 and I started when I was, um, about 35. So, um, for me, was, it was different. It was still, you know, some of it was, you know, the, we had, we had about a year of, um, infertility that we had gone through as well. Um, and that was a lot just, um. trying to remind myself that like we as a couple are not a failure. Um, this is not, you know, something that, you know, I, I did say I'm not doing something to, you know, successfully do this. There's, there's, I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing. And. Really, um, you know, the grace piece of course, and patience. Um, but when we had our daughter, um, really, I, I didn't think, I guess like the no sleeping and all of that. I was like, okay, like I can do that. That's fine. Right. Um, I don't need to sleep and oh, that's fine. Nobody needs to sleep. Um, and, you know, really trying to organize things, having, you know, Where I wrote everything down and whoever was taking care, you know, my parents moved in here for six months to help us and they're writing everything down in a notebook and I think for me, the shame piece really came up was, um, I really wanted to go back to work. Um, and I felt a lot of shame about that. Um, I felt a lot of shame about, it's not that I don't love my, my new baby, of course, but I really, this is so new and I haven't mastered it yet. And I like to be where I've mastered things. Um, and so feeling a lot of shame about like, I really want to go back to work and, you know, and, and So, so much respect for, um, women who are stay at home moms, so much respect for that because I'm like, I would, I am just not built that way to do that and feel like I'm fulfilling, you know, my gifts, my strengths in a way that is, um, you know, more kind of suited for me. Um, and I needed a lot of validation at that time that like, you know, my, my mom was a stay at home mom. My mom is like, The mom, you know, the grandma, like she's all those things. And I'm kind of more like my dad who went to work and just, you know, climb the ladder and achieve. And he was there. He was a great dad. Um, you know, has his own strengths, was a great dad, you know, there at night for homework for things. Um, but that man probably also didn't want to stay at home with us. So just like, not, not if you're a type three mom, if you have that shame about that, let that go. It is, it is so, um, it's just, it's, it's not, It's it's who God created you to be is to be like, like, kind of like you said, that's like, these are our strengths. And it's okay. It's okay. If you're like, man, I don't really want to be here all day because I don't feel very successful here. That's okay. Um, you know, not feeling a lot of shame over that night. I really did. With our first, I felt a lot of shame. With our I already knew that about myself. I already had more Enneagram, um, experience. With our first, I didn't know the Enneagram. Um, right, it was like just getting into it. Um, and so with my second, it was a lot easier to just prepare. Like, okay, And he, you know, it was a boy, so things were all so different. And I was like, man, I thought I kind of knew what I was doing, and now I don't. Um, and just being okay with like, Yep, he's gonna be here and then this is when I'm going to go back to work because that's where I feel and and being For me, that's actually growth because it's like I'm trusting somebody else to successfully baby, um and It doesn't have to be me that's doing everything and That is that was really true growth for me that so just yeah to answer your question I would say that shame piece as a type 3 mom of like, ooh, it's not going well here I'd rather be over here where things like feel like I feel like I'm more Successful and I feel like I know what I'm doing more and just being okay with like that's okay to feel that okay.

Beth: 38:34

Yeah. Well, and let's be honest, motherhood is always changing, you know, like every couple of months, everyone's different. They're, they're changing clothes there, you know, like, I mean, it never stops, you know? And so you're never on the the forefront. Uh, parenting, you know, because so everything's new, you're never successful, quote, unquote, with it, because even if you do get successful at one thing, it changes like the next week. And then now you have to start all again. And so so that totally makes sense. And I think that's a really good point to bring up for other type threes that are out there. Like, yeah, this is really hard. And I've had so many. several type threes, moms and dads that were like, yeah, I've got to get back to work. Um, and it can vary. It can be a total, it it can be a couple hours. It can be a time job. Like, you know, it, it it just runs a gamut for what's good for that family and for that person. But that's probably more often than not. What happens for type threes is they do need to The, they feel they need to get back to something that feels more concrete in the, I am achieving and successing and successful at something over here And at at home, okay, it's going to change. It's going to be a struggle. We'll adapt. I'll figure it out, but it is, it is hard. And so I'm glad that you brought that up. And, and just because it's hard, um, and the shame comes up, does it mean that You are shameful, right? You know, or that you are unworthy. That's comes up. That's the feeling. But again, the reframing of our mind is so important to come back to what is true. And God created you to be this child's parent and parenting. Is super hard and we're not really successful at it. Even if we think we are, there's lots of things that change. And so, um, we're successful in the fact that we're honoring God by being the healthiest version of ourself for our kids. And that just looks different for each type. And it's not that I'm saying. Being is different. It's just that how we get to that healthy spot is different because we all have our different struggles. And so I'm really glad you brought this up both of you as a type three, because a type two or four, they have totally, you know, and other types, they have totally different struggles. And I think this is just so validating for those type three parents that are out So one of the last things I want to touch on, um, is for threes, and this kind of goes into the whole success thing, but for threes, what's really important is to have a successful image or an image that people can Um, Can you, you, can you speak to what was the image you went into parenting, you know, trying to achieve a certain image that you wanted people to see you as, and then how has it or has it changed? And where are you now? And kind of the same thing, like, what would you say to a type three who, you know, has built up a certain image that they think they have to hold or attain? And then what would you to

Dianna: 41:41

Oh boy. Um, I don't know. I think it goes back for me that whole, um, that my kids don't define me. Like it really goes back to that. Because there was this, there, there was always this image, you know, Sunday morning, everybody has to be dressed just right clothes like to my, Oh. And it used to like, I look back and I'm like, like, why, like who cared, you know, like nobody cared about me. Um, but it was. You know, I look at my kids now and where they're at and my, you know, the career, the career paths chose, the colleges they've chose or not chose to go with. Um, none of those things define who I am, but it's become more important to me. kids that are emotionally healthy than it is for me to think about what other people think of me. And you know, like if my, if I, one of my kids has a meltdown, then it's not, it's not a reflection of me. But so many times I looked at it, like if they weren't sitting just right in church, if they didn't answer somebody back with complete respect, all of those things were reflection. Of, um, my parenting Rather than finding out from those kids. like why do you think that way? Why do you feel that way? Why are you behaving that way? It was always a reflection that I thought. For me was what they're doing looks terrible

Beth: 43:14

and

Dianna: 43:14

it really made me take a step back to start guiding them. Um, and it's really hard parenting kids as a three and an eight, my husband who like does not do emotions well, and then me always about what I look like, you know, as this, as this parent, it's like, oh my gosh, like my kids, you look terrible. And my husband's like, no emotions. They're fine. Just don't get over it. And I'm just like, okay. Yeah. And let's find out why they're doing this, because there's a bigger picture than about. And, um, I've just really shifted. I wish I could have shifted this gear with my older kids when they were little, but now with like, especially our younger six that are still at home, like really, we just adapted this idea of raising and launching emotionally healthy kids and it's really changed our view on parenting, um, and on marriage, just the way we do life together. And so I would tell that parent, like, Especially the threes like I've had to learn it's like it's not all about me like and it's really I mean it's hard. I mean like not in not in a selfish way But it's really not all about and you can hear that all you want But at the end of the day, um, you're raising little people to be healthy adults and You launching out into the world

Beth: 44:38

Yeah, and slam it.

Dianna: 44:40

Oh, go

Beth: 44:41

go

Dianna: 44:41

Yeah, so no for us. It's just for Jeff and I both. It's just um, It's just really teaching them, you know Like my inner core is that you are loved for simply who you are being you and then it's now You know it's now projecting that into my kids, that you are loved simply for being who you are and not who I think you should be or who I think you ought to look like in front of everybody else, but that we love you. As much as God loves you just for being who you are

Beth: 45:16

When your your kids were younger and you didn't know the Enneagram did, because I've, I've heard that type three parents, you know, you know, they're constantly pushing their kids to excel in a very specific way, probably whatever their community they're in. You know, esteem. So whether let's say if you're in a hockey community or a musical community, whatever the community is, there are certain things that are like seen as highly regarded. Um, what were you like back then? Were you pushing them to, to gain a certain status or grades

Dianna: 45:50

Um, Absolutely. So for us, um, we're a non sports family and not because we don't like sports, but there's just too many kids. Like, there's too many. That's true. Never get anything accomplished if we did sports. Um, so, so we went the opposite way, though. It was, you know, We're in church every day. Time. The doors are open. We're on Bible club. We're in youth group. We're, you know, every time the door, the church doors are open, we're there. And then, you know, we're going to the Christian school. We're doing the Bible memory fact, uh, quiz team kids like, and it's that push, you know, like you always have to excel. And I, for a long time, one of the things that threw me with interview room three was about this competitiveness about how threes are so competitive. And I'm like, I'm not competitive. I don't do sports. I've never been into sports. And then one time my husband says to me, you're competitive with yourself. Like it's not with other people. Cause you really, I really don't care what other people do. Like I kind of look at what everybody else does. But for me personally, it's this competitiveness with myself and then raising children, like my kids are going to be the best. And it happened just last Christmas. I had all the gift bags, everything lined up on the table for the Christmas gifts for school for the teachers. And I'm making the personalized ornaments and I'm putting in the homemade treats. And Jeff comes into me and he's like, why are you doing this? And I was like, well, what do you mean? And he goes, are you doing this because you love doing this or are you doing this because you're like, you want our kids to have the best teachers give and have like, he's like, he's like, I don't care. He's like, but have you thought about why you're doing it? really in the moment, I wanted to be like, I hate you. I

Beth: 47:38

He's got your number, right?

Dianna: 47:41

and think, why am I doing yes, I'm doing it. I'm creative. I love being creative. But, um, when I stopped and thought about it, I'm like, am I really doing this because I just love it? Or am I doing this so that my kids walk in with the best. Christmas for your teachers. So this year for Christmas, I sent in one tiny little gift. That was it. Like, and I, and I stopped and Jeff said, did that make you any happier or did that make you feel any more loved or less loved? And I was like, no. And he's like, so you didn't have to do all those things and drive you crazy and be up till midnight. Not in the night with our kids because you were making 9, 000 teachers gifts. But it really made me stop and think like, why am I doing this? And is it just because of this competitive. look good. Number three that I have to say, go, I hate this. I

Beth: 48:37

hate every minute. Well, and I think, you know, and one thing to encourage those that are listening, and I love that story because you've been working really hard with the Enneagram. I've been working with the Enneagram for over and this is a daily thing. It's a daily work. It doesn't stop. And I still, like, if, like I, if you guys were to start getting really mad at me right now, I would want to hide under the table and I would have to do my own self work and like, you know, like be okay with confrontation or debate, you know, so. It's a daily thing. It's not just we learn it and we get a little good at it and then we're done. This is ongoing. This is our brain is wired to think in certain ways and to act in certain ways. And now with the it goes awry. And so we want to get back to the place that created us to be the healthiest version of our type. And Sin is here. And so we have to recognize that, accept that, but also know, like you've said, we have an identity in Christ. The victory has been won, but we're on this side of heaven. So we're, it's the already, but not yet. Right. So the already is we the victory with him because him, but we're not yet in heaven with him where it's all complete. So we have to embrace the, um, the glory and the sorrow. And so I love that story because it's like. Yeah. You know what? I had to really rethink why I was doing it and what felt comfortable for me and good for me to do the next time around. And I love that. That is such a beautiful story. Thank you for that. Um, Deanna, what about

Dina: 50:18

So, yeah, in terms of, I relate a lot to what you were saying, Diana, in terms of the impression management. um, for sure. Um, impression management and the like. I also have a piece of, you know, wanting to kind of measure myself, um, to myself, um, to other people, but a lot of times, myself, like, oh, I could have done that better, or, you know, why didn't I do it this way, um, and I, I lose perspective if I stay there. I lose perspective. Um, we, so our daughter who's six, you know, she's. Um, she's in kindergarten. She's finishing up kindergarten. But when she was starting school last summer, she finished, you know, where she was for pre K, and then we moved her over to, like, the summer camp that was at her new elementary school so she could get used to it, And she would just be, she was acting out all over the place, and in public, and not in public, and all over, and I'm getting so frustrated with her, like, What is happening to you? And because it, it, for me, it felt like I have lost control of you. I'm not, you know, managing all of this and what will people think? And all of this, you know, it's just, you know, just five year old chaos. Um, and my husband had to say like, Hey, do you think she's like a little nervous because she's like at a new school, new camp with new people. And she's going to start kindergarten in a few weeks. And. Do you think she's nervous? I'm like, yeah, you know, but excuse me. I couldn't see, I was very focused on the behavioral impression and trying to manage that, that I couldn't see underneath like, she's suffering a a little bit. And I need to kind of, I need to focus there. Um, which of course when I realized those things, I immediately feel shame about that. Um, and you know, thankfully. Thankfully, I have some, you know, scriptures that I gravitate towards and I have people in my life. They'll be like, Oh, yeah, that's, you know, I've done that too. That's Um, and it, it helps. And it also just so important for, for me to be more aware of that as a type three, just that again, the The strength is impression management, but overused, it's like you just totally, um, you know, just disconnected from the fact that your five year old is feeling really anxious about this very new phase of her life coming that we're all going through together, you know, so I'm probably anxious too and not really connected to that. So, yes, I really relate to that impression management piece

Beth: 53:04

well, and. and also, you know, the biggest thing that we, there's a couple of things, the biggest things that we can give to our children, it's. Understanding our own developmental story, like our, who we are and really piecing that together and getting clarity of why we do what we do, which is why the Enneagram is so helpful. Um, it can really piece things together. Like, Oh, like you're, like you're saying like, Oh yeah, I mean, I'm really fixated on the behavioral stuff. Well, that makes sense. As a three, it's a lot about image management, but I don't have to be. To just stay there. Like there's a better, healthier way. And I can still want to have my daughter to have great manners and good discipline, but I also don't want to do it at the detriment of connecting with her and knowing who she is and helping her to grow in a, you know, a sober, emotional minded place. So she can self regulate. Now, of course that takes, All the years. And then some, right. Cause like we're still doing it in our forties for me. Um, and so it's never, it's never ending, but we can, we can start with them and at the appropriate age development, go with them. So, but we have to do our own work first to be able to even know how to engage with another. plus we don't even know what our kids types are at that age. So it's you you know, okay, I've got to study them and understand them and ask them curious questions to get to know them better. Um, Which is really hard. I mean, I wish I, I mean, I started studying the Enneagram when my kids were three and one, and I just was like, Oh my gosh, I've got to find their type right now. And you can't, because they're the ones that have to do it. But I thought this would be like the master key, you know, to all And And God's just like, I want you to be dependent on me. And I'm like, no, I just want the Um, and so, um, but the other thing is to be able to repair well, you know, to acknowledge where we have made a mistake. And it's not even like, especially when it comes between two different types, it's not that we're always sinning or bad. We just missed each other and it hurt the other person. And so just being able to repair well and say, you know what, I miss that. Or I didn't understand what you were needing and just apologizing. Man, that says so much to our children that brings real repair and reconciliation. Um, when we do it well and when we do it right. So I, I love that piece that you were kind of referring to and connecting with her. Um, well guys, thanks so much for just sharing your heart, being here, being authentic. I know this is going to bless so many people's lives. Um, keep going. You're doing amazing in our work. And. I'm just so proud to have you guys on the podcast. Thanks for being with me Thank

Dina: 55:54

you.

Dianna: 55:55

thanks for having

Dina: 55:56

us.

Beth: 55:57

Boy, I am so thankful that you all were here today to hear from these type three moms. Wasn't it amazing? It's so good for each of us to hear what the real journey, the real story is behind just the. The everyday life that we see what's really going on for moms, the struggles, the triumphs and everything in between. Well, I hope that this is really helpful for you. And again, our cohorts are any grand for mom cohorts that are going to start January, the week of January 10th and go all the way to the end of July registration for those ends today, which is May 13th. Um, So if you're interested in being in a cohort with other moms of your same type, please go to your Enneagram coach. com forward slash cohorts. Get into your own cohort, feel heard, feel understood, and be validated. And more importantly, feel encouraged to take the next step each day, one day at a time, because being a mom is hard. I am so proud of all the things that you are doing moms. Next week, we get to talk to type four moms. So join me then and get to hear about the unique experience that type four moms bring.