Beth: 0:00

Hey everyone. Welcome to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I'm Beth McCord, your Enneagram coach, and we are right in the middle of our series on talking with Enneagram moms. Now for you parents out there, moms, do you ever just feel alone in your journey of being a parent, being a mom, and you just wish there was others that understood you or who could talk to you authentically about? Where you're at. Yes. Totally understand. Well, in my new book, Enneagram for Moms, it's going to be released on July 9th, and it's going to really help parents, particular moms, to understand why they think, feel, and behave in particular ways and how to be their best and most healthiest self because parenting's hard. So we don't want you to journey alone. So pre order your book right now, and you can do that at Enneagram for moms. com. And when you do, there are some pre order bonuses that you can get that I've set aside just for you all. So make sure that you grab your book today at Enneagram, uh, for moms. com. And today you get to hear from type four moms. We're going to have three type four moms here with us, And they're going to talk to us about what it's like to journey through motherhood as an Enneagram for, and how the Enneagram has helped them to understand themselves better. Also how to navigate those tough moments when we're not doing as well. Into healthier moments in being our best and healthiest self. So I can't wait for us to dive in and to hear from three Enneagram type four moms. So without further ado, let me have them introduce themselves. guys. It's so great to have you three type four moms on the podcast. I love for you guys just to introduce yourself so everyone can get to know you. And then we'll talk about the highs and the lows of being a type four mom. So Andy, why don't you go first?

Andy: 2:03

yeah, I'm Andy Richards. I'm a certified coach and in the process of certifying to be an Enneagram coach. Um, but I helped Women come home to themselves and it was kind of birthed out of being at home with my kids for many, many years. And finally learning that nothing was wrong with me and that there was a place that I could belong. And so, um, I helped walk women through that now, but I have two daughters. They'll be 12 and 14 next month. So two middle schoolers, one going into high school

Beth: 2:35

Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like Jeff and I would talk about parenting as a hurricane. You've got the front end, which is like, you know, the early years, toddler years, and you've got the eye of the storm. It's kind of like, you know, the elementary school years and they're, they're really, They like, they can do their own, like they can tie their shoes and do all the things. And they still like, Oh, your parents. So I have to like respect you and I still want to cuddle. And then the back of the storm and that's like tween years and teenagers, hopefully not as bad, you know, but so you're kind of getting into that back wall. And so hopefully it will be not as, you know, turbulent as it can be. Um, okay. So Elizabeth, what about you? Tell us all about you. Oh,

Elisabeth: 3:29

really, really love it here. And I have been working with Enneagram for about five years now. I have, um, Enneagram Life, which is my Instagram page, as well as Facebook. It is my other Instagram pages just for fours and I also am a writer. So I wrote a series of Enneagram devotionals, a one off Enneagram book that's called Enneagram Life. And then I'm currently working on another series of nine. So I've been very involved with Enneagram for several years. Um, I think the last time I, Counted. I've done over 400 coaching sessions. I really love, um, yeah, those aha moments when people are finding their type. Um, but in the midst of all of that, I've also become a mom. So I had, I started my Instagram account when my son was six months old and he is now six, six years old. And then I also have a four year old daughter. So yeah, I'm still very much in that eye of the storm beginning of a six year old and a four year old.

Beth: 4:21

Oh, wow. That's so great. Yeah. Um, and you've been on a couple of our podcasts before, so people can always look up those and hear our conversations as well. All right, Andrea, what about you?

Andrea: 4:32

Hello, I'm Andrea Legemeyer, and I'm a mom of four, and two of those are married, so I have two in law children, and three grandchildren that we've met, and two that we will meet this summer when they arrive. So almost five grandkids, and, um, I'm obviously type four. Pretty strong five wing and, um, got introduced to the Enneagram probably two ish years ago. And it kind of was, the big aha was, wow, missing piece. This, this explains personality tests weren't enough. Now I know that's because that was behavior and not motivation. Um, so that for me was. Wow. This is, this is a big deal. This is life changing. This is spun my head and yes, um, has made a big difference in my marriage and for sure in my parenting. Um, the way that I relate, um, sort of the next chapter is after your children leave the home. That's a tricky road of. I'm still your parent. You're the child, except you're not a child, but I'm still a parent. And how are we equals? It's like, we're not the same. And, um, that has really been helpful for me to understand the insides of them. And especially with the in laws, because you don't have that history with them. So it's been, it's been really helpful for me to tread more intentionally, I think, in building relationship with in laws who are now part of your family, but you haven't known for their lives,

Beth: 6:05

Yeah. Okay. Let's start there. Cause that's so intriguing. Um, so my daughter is married and she has a 10 week old and so we're kind of, you know, navigating that. And our son, she's 23. He, my son is 26. And so I know that like emptiness thing and yeah, like we're still parents. Yeah. It doesn't stop. In fact, it kind of gets harder in some ways because little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. I mean,

Andrea: 6:31

except they're adults. And

Beth: 6:33

yeah. And then, so yeah, you can like, you can like maybe advise them if they're wanting that.

Andrea: 6:39

but it's invisible.

Beth: 6:42

And yeah, you're like, well, if I, if I advise, are they going to take that wrong? Are they going to feel supported? I mean, it's a whole thing. So understanding our adult kids types is so beneficial because I can better know what it is that they need and what they definitely don't need from me. Um, so tell me about, you know, you and being a type four mom now having grown children, what has been beneficial? learning about being a type four, but then also knowing, and maybe let's just even start with your, uh, in laws, you know, your, Your son, son in law is, is that right? They're

Andrea: 7:20

I have a son and a daughter in law.

Beth: 7:21

okay. And what it's, what it's been like to use the Enneagram there. And then I want to bounce over to Andy and Elizabeth, and let's talk more about using it at preteen years and the little kid years. So Andrea, tell me a little bit about what it's been like to get to know your four and then to navigate these kind of. new issues.

Andrea: 7:41

Well, one thing very, very big for me is. And I hate this, but don't take everything personally.

Andy: 7:49

transcript, and I've

Andrea: 7:50

Um, and so, especially with in laws, because

Andy: 7:53

we're

Andrea: 7:54

you know, your kids can say something sarcastic or make a joke and it's rude, but it's not rude because it's funny.

Andy: 8:01

going

Beth: 8:02

Right.

Andrea: 8:02

You would talk to your own kids, but you wouldn't talk to your in law kids in the same way because then it really would be rude.

Andy: 8:08

going to

Andrea: 8:09

So it's the not take things personally as I was getting to know each of them. Um, and so, Who is this person? What matters? What do they mean when they express like this or why do they not want to do that? Um, and of course the overthinking that I would do. Um,

Beth: 8:25

And just real quick, what are their types?

Andrea: 8:28

I have a son in law one and a daughter in law seven.

Beth: 8:32

Okay. Wow. Very different

Andrea: 8:34

Yes. Yes.

Beth: 8:35

and very. different. Yeah.

Andrea: 8:37

Yes, very different. So, um, really helpful in being intentional. We live far apart. And so when we get together, that's also tricky because it's a visit. We don't get to like share life and move in and out for small periods. It's intense because they're, we're in each other's home for 24 hours for a five day or seven day period or something. So that's tricky to navigate because at the beginning we were kind of strangers. Um, So just understanding that and then being intentional in the way that I conduct myself and the way that I say things and, um, two concrete examples. They were all, everybody was home for Christmas and my seven daughter in law,

Elisabeth: 9:17

a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

Andrea: 9:18

goodness, textbook, um, wonderful, vibrant, fun, energetic ideas popping all over the place. Total fear of. Boredom.

Andy: 9:28

Anyone

Andrea: 9:29

I had this, what turned out to be a genius idea to make an itinerary before they came, made it on canvas. So it's really super cute and, you know, themed of course, and posted it on the kitchen door

Andy: 9:41

like

Andrea: 9:42

it had every single day what the activities were going to be and at what time, and then what alternatives there would be and.

Beth: 9:48

Oh, okay.

Andrea: 9:50

went and stood in front of that door multiple times a day, like clapping her hands because it's just going to be such a fun day. And look at all the things we have fun to look forward to and look what's happening tomorrow. And it was the best visit we've ever had. it was it

Beth: 10:02

oh, I love that.

Andrea: 10:03

And so

Beth: 10:04

And also because like as you're saying that, as you're saying that, my first thought was like, okay, that could either be a really good idea or not a good idea. But once you said there's alternatives, I was like, oh, you nailed it. You nailed it.

Andrea: 10:18

it was, it was great. Um, and then the same visit, I said something that came out not well to my son in law

Elisabeth: 10:25

You

Andrea: 10:26

and he was very hurt and he doesn't ever, he's, you can't offend him. He's just awesome. He's flexible and whatever. But when I thought about the way it landed for him being a one, it, it was of course, not at all what I meant. But I was able to understand this is how you heard it

Beth: 10:48

Hmm.

Andrea: 10:49

and that was a I mean it was a like You're failing at loving my daughter well,

Beth: 10:55

Oh, right.

Andrea: 10:56

which was not even remotely in my head. So I was blindsided that he was clearly upset. And I said, can we please go downstairs and talk because we need to, and then I got it and I said, I'm so sorry. I understand that that's, that's a thing you already battle if, am I getting it right? And now you feel like I just called you out to make sure you knew you weren't. And that's not at all. And then he was wonderful and gracious and said, I get it. You didn't mean that at all. That is exactly how it landed. And then we had this beautiful healing and it was over and it was gone and it was fine. But

Beth: 11:29

yeah. and usually stuff like that, it just escalates like, well, I didn't mean this, like, or why would you think I would say that? And like, for you, you know, to take that stance of like, Oh, I can see how that landed on you. No, that wasn't my intent, but man, I'm sorry that that escalated. Hit you so hard. I mean, that is beautiful. And just the ability to repair and reconcile right there. That's amazing. Wow. Well, thanks for sharing that. All right, Andy. So you're in the tweens, teenage years. Um, what's it been like to be. Uh, type four mom, the highs and the lows. And especially now in this season of life, cause you had said earlier, you know, like you kind of felt like there was something wrong, but then you kind of found out, Oh, wait, it's something wrong. I'm a type four and this is like all the types feel like there's something wrong with them in their own way. But so how did you navigate through that and learn? Um, Um,

Andy: 12:52

search. Um, there's a lot of relief. At the same time, it was like, oh, I make a lot of sense now. No wonder I'm looking forward to The next thing, this and that. And so I homeschool my kids and I have them at home for about seven years now. And it's been the hardest, um, most wonderful, richest journey, um, to have them at home. And they're a little older now, so they spend a lot of time during student classes and that stuff. But I think having them at home was just like, we, you Toughed it all out. We figured so much out. We were together 24 seven. My husband's a fireman. So long stretches of days, just me and my kids. Um, and for me, I think it was being able to go through the ebbs and flows of My feelings towards being together all the time and not getting a break and learning now as a mom, I said, Oh, no wonder I withdrew. I have that. That's just a natural tendency for me when things are too much, you know, being with your kids all the time. It's a lot like, and I just had it. Yes, for anyone. And I didn't really have that. Um. model or experience that you could take breaks so that, um, you could ask for help. And so for me, I wore so much. Um, I took so much on wanting to do such a great job. Um, and then wondering why it was falling short in feeling things so deeply. And it felt like I was feeling them deeper and it took them harder than most moms around me. It just looked like everybody else was kind of like figuring it out and kind of resilient. And I was here in preschool like, Oh, why does this feel Oh, hard, so sad. And so there was a lot of shame working through shame. And so as I begin to understand that this is how I'm wired, I'm a highly sensitive person, I'm a feeler, I'm a four, um, it just started to kind of lighten the load. It started to, like, I started to make sense. I started to be able to work with my tendencies to feel things deeply. And I think the interesting thing looking back is that, um, before I would apologize, For being too fill in the blank and I think repair is something that I learned as it as a mom and at the same time as they're older and I'm learning myself as well I'm learning not to apologize in the same way for just things that are how I made that I'm a feeler. And so that's interesting to see how you know my girls are older now in our conversations. Um, you know, I try to own the behavior, but not apologize for feeling deeply. So

Beth: 15:50

or guilt. But I love what you said. Yes, there's the behaviors if they're not healthy that we can own and apologize for, but we don't have to apologize for who we've been created to be. Um, as in being a sensitive person or a type eight, who's a direct person, you know, like, but how we're direct, you know, in a healthy way is amazing or how we're emotional in a healthy way is amazing, but it's when it gets derailed. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Um, all right, Elizabeth, you're in the throes of toddler. Well, a little bit older than toddler years. You're in the, the preschool kindergarten ish years. So tell us what it's been like for you as a type four mom.

Elisabeth: 16:31

Yeah, definitely feel very fresh out of the toddler years, um, mostly, but, um, yeah, it's been really interesting. I think I might be the only mom here that has known I was an enneagram for the entire time I was a mom. Um, because I learned about the enneagram before I became a mom and that has been really interesting to, um, notice how, how things are impacting me. There's not a ton of confusion. There's just more like, Oh, of course, of course this is going on. Or, Oh, they dress their baby the same as mine. I don't like that. Oh, of course, of course that's bothering me. Um, but yeah, Kind of things, but I noticed a lot, especially the newborn days slipping into two. a lot, um, because you're surviving so much. And, um, I would lay awake at night and cry about this one friend who hadn't contacted me in like two years, that I hadn't thought of in forever. But all of a sudden it was like all my relationships were bleeding wounds, and they, bothered me a lot and like I couldn't stop thinking about them or ruminating about them and you know all the expectations of how people were going to show up and support me when I had a baby all of a sudden none of that's coming true and like just so much angst around that time and then of course you add sleep deprivation onto it and it's just kind of a mess um and so That, that was so good to know though, like when I was, um, I would be thinking about this friend and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is a red flag of like, I'm in stress. I am trying to, I, I am over fixating on relational love because When I, I always think what floors are stressed, they need love and we've settled for cheap affirmations and, um, trying to fix relationships as a coping mechanism going to two. Um, and so I was like, Oh, I just need people to come alongside me and be like, you are doing such a good job. You're so loved. You're still you. Like you might feel like a cow at the moment, but your only job being to give this message. Baby milk, um, but you're still you and um, that kind of stuff. It was so good to be able to notice that and be like, hey, husband, this is what I think is going on with me right now. And this is what I think would really help. And yeah, that was, um, really, really big. Um, and then going into the toddler years, I think it's so funny. Cause I've heard both of you guys talk about like not taking things personally. And I feel like that. And the, toddler preschool years. Like, my son started lying recently, and I take it so personally when he lies to me. Like, I have such a hard time. I'm like, am I not a good mom? Do you not trust me? Do you not think that I would handle the truth? It's all of a sudden all about me, and then I have to, like, step back and be like, oh, this is so normal. Like this is so normal for, you know, not to want to get into trouble and to lie about it. Um, and so having to like, yeah, take a step back and be like, it's not about me. Like nothing, like this, none of this is about me as a mom specifically and what I'm doing. There's so many developmental things with little kids that are just going to happen. Um, and that's been really helpful. Um, I also have noticed in like the toddler getting to be kid years, um, that as a baby it was really easy for me to make my kids an extension of my aesthetic. Um, and it starts with their name and then, you know, goes to like, to like how you're dressing them and how you present them and all the stuff and then as they get a little older there's not as much of that control and I knew that. I knew that when I was planning their birthday parties when they're little, I'm like, these are the years I get to do this and have it be what I want it to be. Um, but my daughter who is turning four, um, she is, has a very, very strong personality. Me and my husband just call her our aggressive stance child because we're pretty sure that's where she is. Um, but she's very, very assertive and, um, her style is all her own and I don't love it. But I'm like, I always wanted my mom to let me pick what I was going to dress. And if this is what this is, okay, but it's hard. I have to separate myself from it because I think there is a part of me that wants to make my child my own, um, emotional aesthetic extension. And I think a lot of that separating starts even now. Yeah,

Beth: 21:02

And I could see how that could be really hard. One question I do have though, being a type nine, I think I can't remember, I don't know, Elizabeth, if it was you, or if it was just someone I was talking to as a type four mom, or maybe I just read it as like, what would be one of the worst things as a type four mom? And I think one of them was, you know, if my kid. Just wanted to be ordinary, you know, and just kind of blend in with everyone else. And I was like, okay, gosh, man, I mean, look at me. I just wear like a black shirt. Like this is what I wear like every day. I have like four colors of these. And it's like, I just don't even want to think about it. Just make it super simple and easy. Just kind of go with the flow. Um, so I'm just curious, like, what is it like for you fours as moms? Who really are one of the greatest gifts that you give your kids is that you do want them to find their authentic self, to be them, to let them shine for who they are. But if they're not that kind of person, what is that like for you guys? Or is that a fear you've ever had? I'm just kind of curious. Whoever wants to go, go.

Andrea: 22:12

I wouldn't say it was ever a favor. Sorry. Um,

Elisabeth: 22:16

go ahead, Andrew. Okay. Okay.

Beth: 22:44

true. I'm not, now, those are listening. It's not that all nines just wear solid shirts, but I, I don't want to stand out like I, not at

Elisabeth: 22:52

a blend?

Beth: 22:53

not even

Andrea: 22:54

Yeah, there was a, there was a, particular pair of pants that I loved and they looked so good on her. And so she let me, which was rare, convince her, but I was buying. So I bought them. I made her wear them once because then I knew that she would see how fabulous they were. She never wore them again. And she was kind of like, she's also an eight wing, not a one.

Elisabeth: 23:19

Silence.

Andrea: 23:32

like that.

Beth: 23:34

exactly, yeah, and what's interesting about nines, we don't know what we want, so a lot of times we will go along with things that we're like, well, I don't know, maybe, yeah, sure, sounds good, but if we know we don't like something, mm mm, we are the most stubborn on the Enneagram, and we are not

Andy: 23:52

Yep.

Beth: 23:52

it, which I'm sure you've experienced. Do you have a type nine?

Andy: 23:56

Uh, my husband's a type nine and he's very simple. Yeah. So, and he likes what he likes, which is simple. Yeah.

Beth: 24:06

Simple. Right. Yeah. I'm not going to stand up. And is that hard for you, whether as, well, as a wife, but also I'm sure it affects how you all parent too. Yeah,

Andy: 24:41

a farmhouse, I call it granny chic style, so I like old things that are chippy, and, and my kids are like, we just want to buy something modern and new, right? It's like, this is cuter, and so they kind of know, um, you know, my tendency like that, but, um, as far as The kids, it's so interesting, letting them be their own self. I had to do a lot of unlearning for that. Um, I will say that for me, I, you know, I had to wear all the outfits that were given to me. So for me growing up, um, my kids growing up, I really wanted them to, um, have their own thing. Um, but there's other ways that I kind of am losing my thoughts, but, um, yeah, I'm learning to let them grow in the other ways while still kind of like balancing as a mom who's shepherding their heart, where do I lead them? And so for me, that's kind of where this conversation is bringing me to is like, I want you to be who you are. And also these are the common things that I think will be beneficial to us. So it's kind of that. Um, shepherding, letting the shop, you know, go a little bit, but then also kind of.

Beth: 25:51

well, and I bet it's And Elizabeth, you might be able to answer this, uh, for your experience, but. What, it's gotta be like this conundrum inside where you want them to be them. But then when it goes totally against like who you are or what you think is like the better way, how do, how do you navigate that? Cause like you were saying, like your daughter is very assertive and she kind of knows what she wants. How are you navigating through that experience?

Elisabeth: 26:22

I think it's a lot of, um, checking what that's bringing up in me and having to untangle it from my kids having their own experience. Um, I know when I was younger, I'm one of five kids and we were definitely a group. Yeah. Like a grouping, like it was always, my name was never said by itself by other people. It was always me and my brother or me and my other siblings. And it's no issue for me to see my kids as individuals of anything. I probably separate them too much and don't make them share like every, and it helps that they're a boy and a girl too. That's a lot of more separation. I feel like, um, But yeah, I can see that, like, when my daughter, like, started getting really into something that's, like, really, really popular, I think my first instinct is like, no, no, no, no, I want, like, this, this other cute thing, this aesthetic thing, this thing, and it's, it's because I don't want to be influenced. Because to me, being influenced means you're not living in your authentic expression. So my assumption is if anyone else is being influenced specifically by something that's on, that's like super trendy or something that's popular, that then they are being influenced and are not doing something that's authentic to them. Um, but that's not always true for other people. And I, in fact, have probably missed out on a lot of things because I've automatically pushed back because it was. popular. Like, I was super against the Jonas Brothers and Twilight and the Hunger Games when it came out, because those are all my teenagers. Um, and I missed out on some stuff because I was super against those. And so, um, even in my head, like, I have nieces that are in the 11 12 range and their moms just bought them Stanley Cups and it was like a dagger to my heart. Like, you're letting them be influenced! Oh my gosh! And I'm like, okay, but like, that's not, that's That's not an evil, like that's not them not being authentic. I'm like, at least they get to pick their own color. Um, but just, just having to untangle that from like myself, I'm like, what would be being influenced to me? Doesn't necessarily mean being influenced to them. And I've seen that with a bunch of fours too. Like you would think that like fours might be all against like Taylor Swift or something, cause she's super popular, but there's so many fours that are super into Taylor Swift. She has very, um, Authentic and, um, emotional lyrics. And I find that it all, it all just kind of depends. Like to me, I was raised really legalistic and that radio dial did not turn off the Christian station. So when I found Taylor Swift, I was not being influenced into liking her music at all. And so that feels very different to me. Um, whereas when I first saw Stanley Cup's music, Popping up. I was like very into this other water bottle and I'm like, Oh, no, I'm not being influenced into buying a different one. And then that just feels different to me. So all fours have very different expressions of that. But I think, yeah, I think a lot of it, when you're feeling that for your child is to come back to why you feel that way and why that's probably not true for them as well.

Beth: 29:14

Yeah. And, you know, uh, Andrea, like for you with your daughter being a nine, I can, I can just imagine how that could be really, uh, trying because you're probably like, I really want you to be you and like express yourself and find yourself and we're over there going, we don't even know what you're talking about. We don't know how to get there. We don't like, what would you like, us to

Andrea: 29:38

Oh, exactly. And I love Elizabeth, how you said we need to kind of unentwine ourselves. I remember she, throughout her years, I just, she's just very wise and she counsels me a lot when I didn't see it coming. And, oh. Wow, that, yes. I needed to hear that. Thank you, child, even from a little girl, little girl. Um, but there was one day that I'm standing at the door of her bedroom and just feeling like we're just, we're not connecting. This is her teenage years. And I don't like this disconnect. And I said, why, why won't you open yourself to me? Why won't you share with me? And she looked at me, she said, mom, I tell you everything. And I said, but you don't tell me anything deep. And I didn't know about the Enneagram then. Oh, I wish I had. And she said, I give you everything I have. I don't know what more you want, but I'm not you. Oh, and that right there, that's what I needed. I said, oh. You are right. You are not me. And I'm so sorry. I didn't realize I was trying to make you be me. I was trying to have you deliver to me what I want to deliver to you, and I didn't realize that. And that's not who you are, and it's not wrong, and it's not bad. I wish I could say, Oh my gosh, because you're a nine. You're not a four. I'm a four. That's why it's never deep enough.

Beth: 30:56

Yeah.

Andrea: 30:57

And I didn't realize she was trying so hard to give deeply to

Beth: 31:01

Yeah. Well, and I love the fact that you were able to pause and then just reorient yourself like, oh, and this is before you do the Enneagram, like, oh wait, you know, I can see, you know, what I'm doing, which. Is a great thing. That, I mean, you were, you were doing a really good thing. You're wanting to have connection with your daughter, but just like, you know, your son in law it's like, just because we are giving of ourselves in a really wonderful way and we're hoping for the best, you know, and other people, it doesn't mean it lands on them. The right way, or does it mean that they can do or give to us what we're actually looking for? And so I love the fact that you were able to see that and to kind of like release her and just say, yeah, you're right. So that's really, really beautiful. Um, okay. So I would love to hear from you guys. What have you seen in yourself as a type four mom that Are your greatest strengths, you know, cause God gave you your children, you know, no matter if it's one child to 20, you know, God has given us our children and he gave your children to you being a type four mom. What are some of the things that you can just go, you know, what? I really passed down these really cool things and it was such a joy and a blessing to do that. Now, as a type four, don't, don't start going there. You've got some amazing things, but I really want to hear, like, you just, just brag on yourself. Get into that three wing. Let's just go. So who wants to go first? Don't everyone rush to it.

Andrea: 32:33

of us.

Elisabeth: 32:34

Okay.

Andrea: 32:35

Well, I have three boys and one daughter and lots of times people would say, well, good thing you didn't have three girls and one boy. That would have been so much more difficult. That was not the case in my house. I have the nine daughter

Beth: 32:49

Yeah.

Andrea: 32:50

and I have. two, three, four type sons.

Beth: 32:54

Mm

Andrea: 32:54

we have a whole lot of stuff being felt in our household.

Beth: 32:58

Right.

Andrea: 32:59

so they were much more emotional and challenging and playing off of my feeling and then their feeling, but all of them were told during their dating years, they're now age 23 to 33, um, over and over girls would say, you're not like other guys. Like, you talk, you know how to talk deep and listen.

Beth: 33:20

Mm hmm. Oh,

Andrea: 33:22

as they've gotten older, a lot of them, all three of them have said, thanks mom, because you made us do that. And we hated it at the time, but you always had to dig deep on, you know, why did you do that? Or why are you feeling that? Let's talk through this. Because I needed that and I thought everyone needed that. And so I made them do it, but it, it made them able to, and probably some of that they did need because they were there in the heart as well.

Beth: 33:48

Right. Well, yeah. I mean like the two, they're not going to necessarily want to go there. They're going to look at everyone else's and feel everyone else's feelings. And the three is like, Oh, I got to push my feelings aside. Now the four, you probably kind of helped him understand how to gauge the emotions and have more of a help. Cause you're that further down the road than he was, how to utilize those emotions and keep them more balanced. But so, yeah, I think it's, it sounds amazing.

Andrea: 34:14

so I would say that, that my fourishness gave them a better emotional awareness than they might have had

Beth: 34:22

Yeah, that's awesome.

Andy: 34:24

Silence.

Beth: 34:25

Andrea, I mean, Andy or Elizabeth, what about you guys? I

Elisabeth: 34:50

we feel like others are withholding from us because they're just, you know, they're not living on that same plane as we are. Um, but that's such a cool gift. We can give our kids, but I do think, um, it's the empathy is very easy for me. Um, my husband is an Enneagram one in his school. Sorries are expensive. That's what I always say. I'm like, he does not say sorry unless he extremely, extremely means it. I'm like, you could just say, sorry, you had a bad day. And he's like, why I didn't cause it. Um, and so I feel like with my kids, I'm, I'm sorry all day long. Like I'm, I just, it's so easy for me to see the hurt feeling, see that I caused it, see that, and it's, um, yeah, it's very easy for me to be contrite and say sorry, and to see them as emotionally. Similar to me, like I'm not like this big above them in some ways, like our hurt feelings are all the same and so I think that that's a really, um, a really cool thing for a mom to have specifically giving to her kids, um, as well as I think fours are just a really good memory makers. Because we are past oriented, so we know we're going to live in those memories eventually. So we like to make, and we like things to be special, and we like things to be unique. And, um, sometimes that means, um, ritual and routine and, um, tradition, but sometimes that means new and exciting. And who knows which one is going to be all the time. And so it's, um, I, I tell my kids all the time that we're going on an adventure. And it involves Target and Cake Pop. And probably a thrift store, but it's gonna be an adventure. Um, and uh, things like that. I think the boards are just, yeah, we're good at making everything a creative, you know, adventure and making things special that are otherwise ordinary. And I think that that's a really cool gift for kids as well. Um, And then, yeah, I think, um, I learned a lot about like attunement and emotional attunement with like parents and children. And I definitely think for us being, um, more having probably a higher EQ sometimes just cause of all the emotions we have to process that we can't shove down. Um, we, it's easier, I think, for us to do that attunement with our kids sometimes of like, okay, what is like, what are you feeling? How could I make you feel safe? What are you needing right now? Obviously more of the healthy Enneagram 4s. I think unhealthy Enneagram 4s have no ability to do that. Their emotions are just so big and so loud they can't do that. But if you are on the health average to healthier spectrum of Enneagram 4 mom, I think it's um, yeah, it's easier to have that attunement just because you're so emotionally aware.

Beth: 37:23

Yeah. Thank you? Andy. what about you? Silence.

Andy: 37:47

could be. So what's missing has become kind of this, what's possible or what, What else could there be? And it has really led me to, you know, this, your Enneagram coach where God was like, Oh, it could be possible here. But I think, um, some, areas that that has really resonated was when I, you know, I opted out of traditional school and I brought my kids home and that, um, eight years ago was really weird, you know, compared to today. So it was kind of this using my strength and instead of what's missing that I can't have, but what's missing and what can I listen to that God may have more for us. And just that practice of reframing and, um, seeing that as possibility versus inadequacy or not having enough, the Lord has just used that as like kind of my filter for being able to see, okay, I could stay here more, stay here longer for wherever God has for me, or, you know, I could stay here longer. There might be something else. And so when I took my kids home, it changed our lives really changed the trajectory because it not only gave me the sense that I could trust something in me was telling me things could be a little different, even though there was no mold, I could color outside the lines a little bit and just taking those steps to see that, um, You know, what's possible was this very different thing in the life that we created from having my kids at home. We got to do all sorts of amazing things. And my daughters, um, you know, I call my younger, my almost 12 year old, um, the inventor of possibilities. And so it's just unleashing, I think in them, this kind of like search and curiosity. And so I think wielding our strengths that we can often. Or when we are feeling weak, see them as weaknesses and being able to really, um, stand in there and ask the Lord like, what, what could this look like? Is there more for me here? And, um, it's just, um, brought us to many like curious, uh, explorative paths that I don't think we would've, um, explored if I didn't dare to just kind of stand in that question.

Beth: 39:55

Yeah. Man, I love all of that. Um, and so many thoughts came to my mind. I was like, I really want to go here and I want to go here with this conversation. One thing I want to, um, cause I, what I want to do is then talk about where the struggles, you know, and being a type four mom, like, like you guys were saying, like when we're healthy, like, you know, these are some really great qualities, but when we're less healthy, we're going to have different tendencies and it's two sides of the same coin, right? So, you know, you're giving your, the greatest gifts that you have when you're healthy, but then they can turn. On to the other side of the coin when we're not as healthy, but one thing that came to my mind, you know, cause I'm sure we'll get into kind of the emotions. And, um, one thing I love when I'm working with type four is, is to, to help them to realize is that Jesus was a very emotional person. So emotional that when he was in the garden of Gethsemane, he was sweating blood, you know, like he had lots of emotions and he knew exactly what was going to take place and what that meant. But he also. Did it with balance. He also did it with his father's will in front of him. And so you can be emotional and balanced in your emotions at the same time. And I think a lot of times other people are trying to edit force, edit their emotions or squash them or get them, You know, to go away or not to be as big. And I think that there, Christ is such a good model for how you can be emotional and passionate, um, while also keeping your eye on what is right. And what's good. Um, does that resonate with you guys? Okay.

Andy: 41:35

Mm-Hmm.

. Beth: 41:38

So that's the one side of the coin, right? So the emotions, the creativity, the uniqueness, the authenticity, the rawness of being a four, but then there's the other side. So when you guys are less healthy, what have been some of your biggest struggles that you've seen?

Andy: 41:57

I. Understanding my withdrawal and, um, just that tendency. I have a strong, my, my wing to withdraw and kind of figure things out. Um, takes me away from my kids. I think naturally we want to, I could get into kind of trying to figure out what's wise, like my emotions and trying to figure them out. And for me, the growth point has been learning to say that's enough sitting with. The emotions, because I really do, you know, I'm an IFS practitioner. I really do believe we can befriend our emotions. And I think as a four, being able to sit with my sadness, sit with my suffering is pretty comfortable. It scares a lot of people, you know, but I think it's been a strength of mine. And at the same time, the growth point has been That's enough. That, um, when to kind of turn and say like, okay, I'm going to leave you with Jesus. I'm going to go be a mom because they need me right now. I don't have five hours to think about what happened. Um, so for me, I think there's a richness in learning to be with it enough, experience it. Um, but also know my cues and know ways that I can come back to the relational. Peace and back to my own body and back to being present with my kids.

Beth: 43:18

Wow, thank you, Andy, Elizabeth or Andrea, what about you guys?

Elisabeth: 43:24

Yeah, I think mine is a similar vein to what Andy said, but, um, I have a really, really hard time with monotony and repetitive tasks that just have to be done again and again. Um, and there's a lot of that in especially toddler years, there's so many snacks, so many snacks. And, um, like I would get to the point where I'm like cutting up apples and I'm like angry because I'm cutting up apples still. Um, but that. Like, it's really hard for me to sometimes find purpose in all those monotonous tasks. And then it's even harder if I'm having a bad day or something's going on. Like I remember when my grandma died and I'm like, I still am cutting up apples. Like what, like the world doesn't get to stop for me and my emotions, um, because I'm a mom. And I think that that can feel, um, really hard and really frustrating. As a part of being a mom. And I think that, yeah, your family can tell and can know, um, can know what's going on to a certain degree. And I think there's a lot of, um, a lot to say there about people helping and giving you space, especially as a mom of little kids. Um, but there also are times where you just have to. You just have to do it and you just have to push through. And, um, I think, yeah, that's been a really hard part of being a four. Like, I just don't feel like, um, I like twos are such natural nurturers that they feel so much purpose in every aspect of nurturing. Usually I don't feel that, I don't feel that at all. And so that sometimes makes me feel like I'm failing at being a mom or I wasn't made for this, you know, like people say things like that. And, um, I think it's been, helpful to have to reorient that and be like, no, like every, every type is a mom, you know? There's no one type that's made to be a mom and the rest of us shouldn't be moms. Like God has made all of us to have very specific strengths in our kids and having to remind myself that like, even my own mom, I learned just as much from her weaknesses as I did from her strengths. And neither one of those things impacts my love for her. None of them do. And so having to sit there and be with that, because yeah, I think it's hard for a force when you make mistakes or you don't feel up to being a mom to not beat yourself up about that. You weren't made to be a mom or you're not a good mom or all of those things. I have forced asked me a lot, like are forced good moms. And I'm like, that's a complicated question. Like I think force can be really, really good moms. Um, but are you going to always feel that? No, I can't promise that you're always going to feel that because we won't.

Beth: 45:53

Yeah. And, and that's what I love about the Enneagram. Cause like people will ask that kind of question. It could be all different topics. And it's like, all nine types can not feel like good moms. All nine types can feel, you know, whatever the topic is, you know, like for me as a type nine mom, I, If people aren't happy, then I don't think I'm being a good mom and get, so guess how often that was all the time. Like you want to pull your hair out? Like, can someone just be happy for once? You know? Um, so we all have. Our tendencies, our head trash, our negative beliefs, stuff that swim in our mind that I love having you guys here because you have learned about yourself and you capture those thoughts and you take time to process them and move through them so that you can be on your healthiest side for being a parent. Now, of course. It ebbs and flows. You know, we have our good days and our not so good days, but the fact that you guys journey forward is what really our kids need. Cause like you said, Elizabeth, all of our, all parents make mistakes, but are we willing to acknowledge our mistakes to learn from them, apologize and grow through them? That's really what our kids not only desire from us, but they need to see a modeled after, um, Andrea, what about you? What's been hard?

Andrea: 47:16

It was, it was super interesting to listen to you, Elizabeth, because I am one of those moms that like, I was made for this. Like I've been waiting to be a mom since I was three. And, um, but with that came this huge heaviness of, so it's interesting to hear you say, I don't enjoy all the parts. Cause I was one of those, like, I love it all. I love being pregnant. I love being a mom. I love doing the snacks. I loved it and cleaning. I love doing laundry. I love if it's a mom thing, I love it. And yet still feeling this exact same way that you just described of, um, I, if I'm not enough, then I'm, I'm, I have the shame. And so if I see a shortcoming or a failure or a poor decision, or ultimately if my children don't choose to walk with Jesus, it's my fault. Because I didn't do enough. I didn't model it right. My relationship with Christ wasn't one that looked attractive to them. So that drew them in, or I didn't equip them right. Or I didn't watch their friend group, you know, who was influencing them or I was too strict and I should have been more open, but whatever it was, I did it. I did it and it was my fault. And that was really, really, I couldn't get out from under this cloud when our oldest graduated from high school. And I just kept telling God because then he went to school, he went to college and it was only 30 minutes away, but it was, it's a different universe. He's gone. And it was not a Christian school as a state school. And I was a wreck and I just kept telling God, I'm not, I'm not done yet. I didn't do the job well enough yet. He's not where he needs to be for me to breathe. Okay. That I did the job that I did it. So I clearly wasn't enough because you gave me him on purpose. I feel that responsibility. So. So much to get it right because he chose me to be this person's mother Thinking I could do it and then I know this is illogical like god got it wrong. No, god didn't get it wrong I was supposed to be his mom and Just having to really battle that Give it to god. Um, very wonderful Um, mom ahead of me, um, that said once when I asked her, how do you, how do you do this? Like how do you handle this pressure of I, I there's no room for error because if I don't do it right, they're going to pay. And it was on me. And she said, that's why I pray a lot because I'm going to have a lot of holes and only God can see the holes and fill the holes. I can't. And, but that was still a battle for me to say, yes, but holes are not allowed because it's. And I wasn't enough and then I'm shamed. Yeah. So I I've often joked, that's why God gave me four because he knew it would take me a while to handle on that. So, so I was easier and more joyful by the fourth one and more trusting because God had, I had listened a little bit better to like, I gave him to you to manage. He's actually mine. And so I'm not about to let him just fall through the cracks. If, if you mess up, cause I knew that you would. I already had it covered. It's okay. So that for sure was for me, the, the challenge in the responsibility of the heaviness, which yeah, all makes sense to me now why I felt that. But Andy, I also resonated with what you said, like, why aren't other mothers taking this so seriously? Why do they act like this is just one big party? There's so much to think about.

Beth: 50:44

Yeah. Because you're feeling so deeply for your kids.

Andrea: 50:48

yes,

Beth: 50:49

Mm-Hmm.

Andy: 50:50

to kind of go by what you're saying, um, the matching up my feeling with reality, like I don't feel, I often struggle with, as a four, not feeling authentic if I'm not there yet. Whether it's a family vacation and I'm not excited enough and there's the shame of oh I'm going to ruin it and this stuff or it's time to do this event. I'm not in the right, I need more time and so I'm learning kind of that balance of what, what does help me recharge and prepare and how can I get to a place again where it's enough and Mary Poppins said enough is as good as a feast. My kids hate that but I say it all the time but I think it's for me because um, like you're saying, like, I could just have enough just as I am even if I'm not feeling like I'm where I want to be and I think that's the, there's a beauty in being a four and being able to feel so deeply and wanting to show up to life so authentically. And then there's the human part where it's most of the time, I'm not going to feel ready enough to be on this podcast or feel ready enough to have my kids off here or there. And so it's learning, Lord, come to me, be with me in this discomfort. It doesn't mean that I'm not showing up authentically. It just means that other people get to have their own thing and they, they can feel just as ready. My kids will be ready for something. And I'm like, hold on. I need more time to prepare for that and let's just do it. So I think the dynamics of family give you that, giving me the opportunity to let people be them and let me be me.

Andrea: 52:27

hmm. Yes, agreed.

Beth: 52:30

So I want to piggyback on that because that really touches a lot on self care and as I've been interviewing all the different types of moms, self care looks very different or what what's needed right now, you know, they might like the same types of self care. You know, it's not like, you know, y'all. Do completely different self care. Some do the same, but it's why, um, and why we don't do self care is different for each of the types. So can you, cause there's going to be some moms out there that are type fours and they're not taking good care of themselves and they're struggling. Where have you seen that you've needed good self care? Maybe where you didn't give it to yourself or you've learned to give it to yourself. What does that whole arena been like? How can you let other type four moms know? What like hacks or insights or, Hey, I understand I'm right there with you. So what would you say to those moms? Yes.

Andy: 53:37

be so present with my children and to be attuning to them, even bedtime. I'm so tired at the end of the night, but it's the time where It's our connection time. It's our special time. And so for me, it's understanding. Okay, this is going to take a little more for me. It may not take as much for my nine husband, you know, might not take as much from another type of mom. But for me, I know that if I want to show the way I want to show up. It's going to take a little more. So building in transition times, building in wind down times, even being able to say like, you know, I turned down the lights at nighttime. I kind of like ease us into bedtime. Not everybody likes that, but for me, I need to, to do what I need to do. And so for me, as my kids are getting older, it's been a little easier to let them have their own routines and then I can have my own routine. But I think just trying a lot of things has helped me, um, figure out what. I like. And what I don't like. And at the same time, it's like, um, nothing is wrong if I need a little solitude. And I think for me as a newer mom, if I was away from my kids, I felt like I wasn't being enough for them. And so it was really hard for me, um, and that has lots of implications from, from other places. But I think for me to know that I do recharge by being by myself, I need some time to wind down and nothing's wrong with me. I'm not. Withdrawing to push people away, but I'm withdrawing to recharge myself community being able to communicate that because I think when you disappear as a mom, they're like, where are you? Why aren't you, you know, but being able to find words to communicate to the people around me what I do need and that's okay that I need a time out or any time in my room.

Beth: 55:25

Yeah. absolutely. That's great. Uh, Elizabeth or Andrea, what about you guys?

Elisabeth: 55:30

Yeah, I was thinking about how I think it's Kendra Adachi, um, the lazy genius that talks about, um, things that make you feel like yourself. And obviously that's going to be very, very different things for everyone. But I think that that's, um, something that I've had to keep reminding myself when, when decisions feel hard, when I'm burned out, when I'm overstimulated, all those things going back to a list of things that make me feel like me. Is really helpful. Um, like, Oh, put on, put on that one playlist, make a cup of coffee, go for a walk. Oh, go, go to nature, go to music, go to this. Um, has been really helpful. And that way too, I don't have to decide. I don't have to make up my mind. I don't have to overanalyze. Is this one thing like authentic to who I truly am? Or am I just coasting in life? Uh, especially when you're overstimulated. And so, um, that's been really helpful, but I think also having some sort of hobby that makes me sit down. Is also very helpful because I think especially when I have kid free time. I tend to like buzz around like Trying to be as productive as possible. I think that that helps me feel like I did something with my day Um, but i've just over the past like two or three years I've taken up reading a lot of fiction and that makes me sit down and so I have like a good like half an hour hour at the end of the night where I read and I think that that's really helpful just to like calm my body down and let my mind play for a while um You To like help myself get to a place of being able to actually rest.

Beth: 56:55

That's great. Andrea, what about you?

Andrea: 56:57

Oh, almost exactly. Kind of a combination of what they both said, but very much like Elizabeth. Um, I also homeschooled, uh, for 12 years. And so, yeah, four kids all day long, all the time. And by the end of it, I'm, I'm done. I'm tapped out. And when we first got married, we had a rule. Early marriage rule. Nobody goes to bed without the other. Mm hmm. Because we're going to do everything together. And then once I had kids, I would say, I'm sorry. I cannot have my day start again. I cannot go to bed yet. I need two hours, but no one says that.

Andy: 57:36

Silence.

Andrea: 57:39

do anything for you either. I need two hours to read by myself. I'm going to drink tea and I'm going to light a candle and I'm going to read a book and it's going to be silent and no one's going to talk to me. And the flip side was then less sleep, but that was so worth it for me because I couldn't bear the thought of I'm, I'm emotionally exhausted and I'm going to close my eyes, open my eyes and start over again. And I didn't refuel yet. So that available time to me was late at night. So I took that and cherish it and very much look forward to it. And that for sure kept me afloat.

Beth: 58:18

Well, I just really appreciate you guys. Just sharing what it's been like to be a mom, like I said, the highs, the lows and everything in between, um, being a mom, it's just really hard. It's just hard. Um, and it's beautiful, right? It's, it's like everything. Um, but I think for me and those who are listening to be able to kind of journey with your motherhood experience has been really inspiring. You know, I, I just love hearing from fours. Yeah. And I, my hairdresser, which I actually all see on Friday, um, she's a four and I love hearing how she mothers as a four. And I was telling her about like what fours, um, perspective is, you know, as being a mom and she was like, Isn't everyone like that? Like, isn't that the best way to be a mom? And I'm like, I mean, this is a great way to be a mom. Um, but I just love watching her and the inspiration to draw out her kids. Um, not just their emotions, um, but their creativity, um, who God has made them, you know, how they are going to navigate the world instead of following everyone, how are they going to do it? So I just want you guys to know that I really just Appreciate you sharing and also just the great moms that you are, you know, the different stages you are. Um, and again, why don't you just let everyone know where they can find you really quick. So Andy, we'll start with you.

Andy: 59:45

Yeah, you can find me at Radix Life Design. I'm a certified coach. I'm an IFS practitioner, that's Internal Family Systems, and um, I just love, love walking with women to help them come home to themselves and be truly rooted in who they are and discover that.

Beth: 1:00:02

That's great. Elizabeth.

Elisabeth: 1:00:04

Yeah, so all of my links are at elizabethbennetteneagram. com and if you spell my name correctly, you'll probably find me. That's what I always tell people. So, S

Beth: 1:00:12

With the nuts.

Elisabeth: 1:00:13

R E. Ben at two n's two d's. Um, and then at enneagram. life is my big Instagram account, and then at fourish underscore, and I know it is my account for fourths.

Beth: 1:00:23

That's fun. Andrea.

Andrea: 1:00:25

And mine is life story Enneagram on Instagram and then website is called birth to life story because I also have another whole thing. That's a being a doula and supporting women through that way. But, um, my life coaching is, um, Through your Enneagram coach certified with, uh, with Beth for Enneagram coaching, and that has been amazing. And so I'm, I'm in a, in a full on transition, hopefully to, uh, do that full time and, and really loving what I've been able to do and I had envisioned. Um, primarily women, but it seems God keeps sending me to marriage.

Beth: 1:01:03

That's great.

Andrea: 1:01:04

that's who I've worked with and it's, it's been awesome. Um, I've been years of a teacher, so I feel like coaching is what I've done for years and years as a mom and a teacher and just didn't have that title. Um, so it's felt very natural and very wonderful to me. So yes, if you want to find me, you can go to life story Enneagram on Instagram.

Beth: 1:01:24

Uh, well, thank you guys so much. I'm, I'm just honored to have you guys here. So, all right. So thank you everyone for being with us today and we will see you next time. Bye bye.

Andrea: 1:01:35

Thank you.

Beth: 1:01:36

I am so thankful for these incredible moms that we got to hear today being. Any type of mom is hard, but it was really great to hear from these three type four moms about their real experiences, the highs, the lows, and everything in between. It was truly inspiring. And I know that you felt the same while at your Enneagram coach, we are here to walk alongside you as you journey through parenthood and really just to become the healthiest version of yourself. We hope that you're Order our new book. That's coming out July 9th, IndieGram for moms. And when you pre order the book, I've got exclusive bonuses. Made just for you. First, you're going to get a sneak peek into the book. You're going to get to read two chapters. Secondly, I've done a podcast only for those that pre order the book called, am I a good enough mom? Our unique negative messages and what to do about them. Hey. We all have negative messages, all nine types have them, but what do we do with them? And that's what that podcast is all about to really help you on your journey of navigating around shame so that you can really speak, um, affirmations and encouragement to yourself. And then we're going to give you a journal to help you navigate through the book as you learn more about yourself. Well, in next week's episode, we get to talk with three type five moms, and it is fascinating. I can't wait for you to hear from them and what it's like to be a type five mom when you get depleted really fast and how to navigate around that, how to, um, use your superpowers to be the most powerful. Best and authentic mom for your kiddos, the kiddos that God gave you. So join me next time in talking with three type five moms. And again, pre order that book at any, a grandpa moms. com. And I can't wait to journey with you. See you next week.