Beth: 0:00

Hey, everyone. Welcome to your Enneagram coach, the podcast I'm Beth McChord, your Enneagram coach. And we're right in the middle of a really cool series where I'm interviewing three moms of the same type so that we get to really hear, understand and learn from them and what it's like to be a mom from their perspective. Enneagram type. This is a place where there's no judgment, no shame. Just who has God created you to be? And what have you learned with all of the ups and downs of motherhood for your Enneagram type? Now we're doing this series because my new book is releasing July 9th and it's coming Enneagram for moms. And I can't wait for you guys to get ahold of this book. You're going to learn so much about your Enneagram type, your relationship with your kids and how to become a healthy parent and the ripple effects that that's going to have on your family and community at large. And if you pre order the book before July 9th, by going to Enneagramformoms. com, you're going to be able to get exclusive bonuses that you're not going to want to miss out on how to help you be the parent that I know you desire to be. So go to Enneagramformoms. com. For moms. com to get your book and to get those pre order bonuses, but also jump in and become a part of our book launch group. We are going to have a lot of fun and learn so many things together. Okay. So with all that being said, let's dive into today's episode where I get to talk to three type five moms and hear all of the highs and the lows of being a type five mom. All right. So here we are with three type five moms. I'm so excited about this one because I get a lot of questions about what's it like being a type five mom. I know as a type nine, it's exhausting. And so I think a lot of people, you know, cause nines get overwhelmed and we like peace and quiet and no kids are. Peaceful and quiet, right? Like they were just not made that way. And so a lot of people wonder how nines are moms. And so we have a podcast episode on three moms that come together and talk about that. And it was funny because we talked about how we use either headphones or earbuds to kind of drown out some of the noise so that we're not so activated, but all that to be said, that was in the nine, um, pockets. But I think. The same for fives. You all can get drained pretty easily and need some time and space. And what does that look like? Cause kids don't usually give us time and space. Um, so. I'm excited to dive in to really hear what it's like for you guys to be a mom, the highs and the lows and everything in between. But before we jump into that, I would love for everyone just to get to know you a little bit better. So let's start with you, Chris. And why don't you introduce yourself? Um, what are your passions, your family, what work do you do and anything else that the audience would just love to know about you?

Christine: 2:58

You said Kristen, right?

Beth: 3:01

I did. What did I, what is it?

Christine: 3:04

I

Kristen: 3:04

I heard you, I heard you say Chris, so I thought you were. I didn't know who you were talking

Beth: 3:09

I know that's right. We've got a Chris and a

Christine: 3:11

do. It's very close,

Beth: 3:13

Kristen, why don't you start first? Cause you're in my upper right hand corner on the screen.

Kristen: 3:19

Hi, my name is Kristen Yeh, and my husband Albert and I have been married for 24 years. We are the parents of four boys. Our oldest is Nathan, and he is a sophomore in college. Andrew is a senior in high school, uh, Evan is a sophomore in high school, and then Kyle is a seventh grader. So, we're in the throes of raising kids, um, sports, and all that. And all the, all that goes along with that. Um, my date, my day job is, uh, I do accounting two days a week for a small business and then, um, and then I'm a certified Enneagram coach and I have a company that I started called Thrive Enneagram Coaching, and I love to help women thrive in their God given roles based on their identity in Christ.

Beth: 4:05

I love that. And you also were mentioning like a new venture that you're getting into.

Kristen: 4:09

Yeah, this is really exciting. So, um, two other YEC coaches and I have, uh, banded together and started a new company called work coach. And it's, uh, we're bringing the, the Enneagram to work and helping people, uh, thrive in their communication and in their conflict resolution styles, uh, in the workplace. So it's very exciting.

Beth: 4:31

Like you won't be busy, right? I mean, every work environment needs that

Kristen: 4:36

Well, what, what, whatever we bring, you know, from home affects us in the workplace and vice versa. So. It relates.

Beth: 4:44

That sounds really exciting. All right. So, Kristen, um, thank you so much. So, Chris, let's, uh, move on to you.

Christine: 4:52

Yes. I'm Chris Gordon. I've been married to Michael for 20 years. We met in seminary and we have three children. They are 18, 16, 13. So three teenagers, boy, girl, boy. And one, my oldest is finishing his first year of college at Western Kentucky University. And the other two are still here, and my day job, although it is, it's strange because my husband travels a lot, and so I would say day job, but I work a lot at night when he's not here, so my, any other time job when he's not here is, I'm the co founder of At His Feet Studies with a therapist, so we write Bible studies basically for busy women who are, that are a therapist. Accessible, I write a lot of commentary and she's a licensed therapist who writes the questions to help you really get some meat and apply it to your life from the Bible. And that's, I teach the Bible a lot around the country and that's, I'm passionate about women, uh, understanding the Bible and therefore knowing Jesus in a connected way. That's what gets me really excited. Yeah. Okay.

Paige: 6:16

time off trying a little bit of a new venture into remodeling houses. And so that's taking up a lot of my time as well as being a full time mom to five kids also takes up a lot of time. So that's where I am right now.

Beth: 6:29

absolutely.

Paige: 6:30

Glad to be here.

Beth: 6:32

Yeah. It's so good to have you guys here. Thanks for joining us. Okay. So I would just love to start out. Um. As a type five, you know, like one of the core weaknesses is feeling that too much interaction with others is going to lead to catastrophic depletion. Well, motherhood is just constant interaction with others. So tell me some of the highs and the lows of. Always being in the throes of little ones and constantly being needed, wanted, you know, desired all, you know, upset at you, you know, all the in betweens, what is that like as a type five mom? So anyone can jump in and we can kind of popcorn around.

Christine: 7:18

I remember thinking when my kids were little, I knew motherhood would be hard, but I didn't, I think I didn't know anything. You know, I, I didn't know enough about myself or the Enneagram to know I was, so why I was frustrated or why it was so irritable. And I think as I've gotten older, now I can look back and go, Oh, I just didn't have breaks. Like I was, it was exactly what you said. It was, Oh, I didn't have breaks. You know, they, they needed me all the time and then my husband would come home and it was the same thing. And I was like, the end, you know, I am done, which of course hurt his feelings. So it was this sort of the snow, but it wasn't all negative. But for me on the inside, it was a snowball of like, why do I just always want everyone to go away? And now I understand now that my kids are older. Yeah.

Beth: 8:11

I'm assuming there's, it's kind of, it's a very ambivalent feeling, so feeling two things at one time. So on one side, I'm sure you're like, I love my family, but then there's the exhaustion of it, especially as a five needing so much energy and resource reserves and they're depleting it all. So there's this constant back and forth, right? Like, and that's. How does that, and I'd love to hear from, you know, all of you guys, like, how does that land on you internally? Is there, is it guilt? Is it, is it shame? Is it like what, when you're feeling that, or maybe it's not, maybe it's just like, Hey, it is what it is. I'm exhausted. Like I need some time alone. Like it's, there's no shame. There's no guilt. It just is what it is. So I just love to hear. What that's like for you guys, when that does come

Paige: 8:56

Yeah.

Christine: 8:57

to

Kristen: 8:59

I'm okay with it and it doesn't land as guilt or shame. I think before I knew the Enneagram and understood what was going on, I did feel guilty. You know, I would be on all day long with little kids and I was okay when I knew that I had to be their person. You know, I had to take care of them and I loved it. And then when my husband got home, it was like, Tag, you're it. I'm out of here. You know, I need to go up to the bedroom and I need to just be alone for a little bit. And he was like, you're home. I want to spend time with you. Um, so it's, it's working that out

Beth: 9:36

Yeah. But before you knew the Enneagram, a lot of raw emotions did come up during that time.

Kristen: 9:44

for sure. Because, um, he, you know, I, I knew that it was my job to care for these little people that I loved and it was exhausting.

Beth: 9:56

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Paige. What about you? You'd like, so you, you've had five kids and a set of twins right there, kind of, kind of in the middle, kind of towards the end, but, um, what's it been like for you? And it'd be also fun to kind of talk about spouses, but you've got a type eight husband who, you know, he loves to go and like do, and he does, and you joined the adventure with them. So tell me what it's been like for you as a mom. Right.

Paige: 10:25

Well, unfortunately I did not find the Enneagram with you until my last was born and boy, that would have made a huge difference if I had found it when my first was born, but honestly, I don't think I would have had five kids either. If I had known myself a little bit more, just to be honest, I think I probably would have stopped at two. So there's this, this kind of like, well, it's probably best that I You know, things happen perfectly timed, but I do remember when my first was born and my second was born, the first was the hardest. It was that initial shock of, Oh my gosh, I had no idea what this was going to be require of me personally, and my, my strength and my emotions and all these things. And then when I had the first, of course I had a traumatic birth and all of that played into it, but then I had a second, the second was like, okay, I think I've got it. But then I had twins and nobody can prepare you for twins. Like, it's just, it is. And I, I really just remember being, do you remember that Jim Gaffigan sketch where he's like, it's like having babies, like where you're like, holding four in the ocean and somebody throws you a fifth one? That's exactly how that happened. Here we go. I'm just going to die right now. It was so overwhelming. Um, and so I do remember, I think fives are already a little disembodied, right? We're always in our heads. And I felt this kind of numbness take over me because I was already disembodied and now I felt just numb. Like I was just kind of doing the thing, doing the thing. And I knew it was required of me, but I wasn't fully there. And I kind of regret those times. I wish I had. Known myself better to get the help I needed.

Beth: 12:11

Yeah, did you, uh, Chris and Kristen, did you ever feel that way? Just kind of like more, even more disconnected from your body and just kind of barely just living through the day, kind of more in your mind. And what was that like?

Kristen: 12:25

Definitely. Um, and it's interesting because it, I could be fully in the room and my mind would be in another world. I was there, but I wasn't there emotionally with them when I got overwhelmed and when I got tired. So I can

Beth: 12:42

What was that like then? Like, let's say you got overwhelmed and you've got a bunch of kids, you know, around. As a, I know what it's like as a nine, I just check out, but I'm, but that means the opposite. Like my brain is just not happening. So what was it like for you as a five, you know, when you got overwhelmed, you're there physically, but where's your mind going?

Kristen: 13:03

Yeah, my mind is going to other things that are not related to what's happening at the time. Um, and, and, you know, being past focused, it's most often things, you know, that had happened in the past. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a circling, a rumination in my mind that's not connected to what's going on at the time.

Beth: 13:24

And did you see any kind of result in your kids when that was happening? Like, did they, you know, poke and prod at you or try to get you to be more, because you were saying that you're physically there, but you weren't maybe as emotionally present. Were they trying to get you more emotionally present or. Or not. I'm just kind of curious as how that would happen, you know, with the kids there.

Kristen: 13:48

Yeah. I mean, when they were young, you know, they would come over and they would give me a hug or they would, you know, Tap me or they'd say mommy, mommy, mommy, you know, and then I would come back. you know, when, when they called, you know? Um, but, but there could have been a time when, when it was a little bit checked out, which, you know, I understand now, but did not at the time.

Beth: 14:08

would be fun to like, to do a podcast with all the types of moms and talk about, okay, what was it like for all nine types to be quote unquote checked out? Right. Cause I mean, we all get overwhelmed and like, just to kind of go down and hear from each one, I might have to do that. Like just have an episode with all nine types and just kind of hear from each of them. Um, So Chris, what about you? What was that kind of disconnecting from the head and the body when your kids were, you know, predominantly little, but it could even be now. Yeah.

Christine: 14:36

I, so I call the years when my kids were really small, the dark years, because I don't, I honestly don't remember. Not dark isn't sad, but I was so tired that I looked like. And my body is there, you know what I mean? Like I'm in the pictures and my kids are like, Hey mom, I remember when we blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, I got nothing. Like I just, it really was like, I just survived. I didn't get a lot of sleep. I have two special needs kids. They didn't sleep very well. So it's like, I just don't remember a lot of it. It was very much survival. And I know there are things I remember that were just delightful. And then there are just big swaths of time that just went away because I don't remember them. I just don't. Yeah. Um,

Beth: 15:33

was the preparedness? What did that look like? And then of course you enter in motherhood and it's probably very different than what you learned. So what did you do beforehand and then what was reality like?

Christine: 15:46

Okay.

Paige: 16:02

So I felt like I didn't know it at the time, but I was preparing myself maybe unconsciously of like, Oh, I know I'm going to be a mom, the things. Um, Yeah, so I, I did feel like I, I was prepared because of that, but then, like I said, I had a, my first baby was a traumatic birth and I thought just, threw me for a loop. No, I mean, I don't have to prepare for that. I don't know. So that was hard.

Beth: 16:26

Wow. Wow. Now that would be really hard. Um, Chris, what about you?

Christine: 16:31

I mean, of course, I read all the books because I want, yes, I do want all the information. I read all the books and also, so this is so ridiculous to think about now, but I very patiently sewed ducks, like lots of little ducks that I cut out onto a bumper. You know how we used to have bumpers?

Beth: 16:48

Yeah.

Christine: 16:49

them on and it was like, it was like, this all has to be done and everything has to be prepared because of what I know is coming, you know? And then my first, he was just a little bit early and was quiet for the first couple of weeks. And I thought, Oh, this is great. Like he just slept all the time. Cause he should have been on the inside. And then he woke up one day and he literally cried for three months and I just, I just remember people coming over. It was kind of a haze and I would just, someone would come to the door and I would literally just hand them the baby and walk away. So it was, you know, you can't, it was so, it was such sensory overload. All the screaming and the, you know, breastfeeding and the, someone's touching me all the time and all that. That it was, I mean, it's day and night, you know, before and after.

Beth: 17:33

Right. Right. Did you feel that when, especially when he was crying? And I'm assuming the feeling was I've read all the books, nothing's working

Christine: 17:44

Yes, I'm

Beth: 17:45

where, where did that put you? Like what kind of state of mind,

Christine: 17:50

just thinking about this doc, this pediatrician that my husband and I, who both have master's degrees. Okay. We're in there. We are in a room. Our child is just screaming. There's a child next door. You can hear on the other side of the wall, screaming pediatrician. She's probably in her fifties. Great. Like season. She comes in. We're just distraught, right? Because we did read all the books and she looks at us and she goes, You both have college degrees, don't you? And we go, yeah. And she goes, probably master's, right? And we go, yeah. Like, why is she talking to me about this? This is our pediatrician. And she goes, you hear that baby crying? His mom is a 17 year old. You know what she does when he cries? She picks him up. Cause why? Babies cry. You're not going to fix this problem with your degrees. I know you're used to fixing things, but this isn't how this

Beth: 18:33

man, what was that like to hear

Christine: 18:35

It was actually so comforting because that's exactly what we thought. Like we're used to, like, you learn the things, you put it to work and it fixes the problem. And she just sort of cut all that in half and said, you know what? It's okay. Babies are going to cry. You're not supposed to know how to make it stop. You just got to let them cry. And it was really kind of freeing for both of us. Boy, did she have our number?

Beth: 18:56

Wow. That's incredible. Kristen, what about you?

Kristen: 18:59

yeah. I mean, of course, you know, like you, Chris, I read all the books and then, um, then after, you know, our first was born, I dived into even more and I just. It was so comforting for me to dive into research mode, to learn. I loved hearing different perspectives and um, it was, it was helpful in a way and yet it was not specific to my personality and so a lot of the things didn't apply.

Beth: 19:30

Yeah. Um, so let's see, Paige, I think you have the youngest, which is seven. What I'm curious is what are, what is motherhood like? For those that are having babies now, you know, with all of the social media and all of the, I mean, blog posts were kind of out. Did you guys feel like you had to keep researching and, and pulling information from the internet or social media, or was that not as much of a thing when your kids were born, maybe more of a thing right now?

Paige: 20:03

Yeah. The, the social media thing really didn't apply to me until I had twins. And then that was such a foreign, like, what, what do you do with two babies? So I, I really did, uh, lean into, uh, Instagram at that time and found twin moms and all the hashtags for twins. And really connected there, um, because I already had some small kids and didn't really have any other support where I was for being, becoming a twin mom. So social media was really a gift to me to have a little bit of a community online and see what people were doing. And I'm still friends with them online. And I see their, you know, 10 years later, see their twins. And that's kind of cool.

Beth: 20:46

That is awesome. That's great. Now, Chris and Kristen, did you, was that at all thing? Cause I know it really wasn't for, for me when my kids were younger.

Kristen: 20:54

No, it was not.

Christine: 20:55

Nope.

Beth: 20:56

I honestly, there's like, I hear like Paige, what you're saying and you know, our daughter just had her first baby two months ago and there's so much good that can come from all the information that's out there. And then there's also. You know, so much that can be really hard, you know, so much information, like who do you listen to? And you've got opposing opinions and all this stuff. So I can see how it's, you know, it's a both and, um, and just really monitoring that. But I always am curious, you know, for, um, you know, type five moms that are kind of like getting into motherhood now and being inundated. With so much information or the ability to get that amount of information, how that's either comforting or overwhelming or probably a mixture. What would you guys think if you. We're having children right now. What, what would it be like for you? Do you think?

Christine: 21:49

Just seems loud. I mean, that's how it seems to me, like the whole social media in general. Sometimes I have to be on it for work, which is fine. Like I'm not morally opposed to it, but every time it comes on, I'm like, huh, so much, so much, I just kind of, I watch a little and want to shut it down. So I think that would probably have been my reaction is like, that's enough.

Kristen: 22:09

And I, and I think it would have been hard, you know, to see moms go, go, go, go, go all the time with their kids because they had the energy to do that. And you know, I, we, we did things, but it wasn't at the pace, you know, that other moms necessarily were doing it. You know, our, our, our outings were basically, you know, usually planned and they had a purpose and we are going to go do something fun. And still get home for nap time.

Paige: 22:37

Yes.

Beth: 22:38

Who's nap time. No, I know. I was always, always, always up for the nap time. Um, so, okay, Paige, I'd love to like, start with you because the last time we had you on a podcast, Chris was actually with us and we were just talking about this before we hopped on air that. Y'all took quite an adventure all seven of you in an RV and we were literally you were literally Doing it at the time, like you were in a car because everyone else was in the RV. So walk us through that because we're all like amazed at here. You are a type five with five children and a, and a type eight husband, and you're literally living in the smallest. A smallest quarters. What was that like? And how did you get through it? What were the highs? What were the lows? What would you do different now? Like help us to understand like how this was like a thing.

Paige: 23:39

Well, I will, I will begin by saying that when my husband and I got married, I said, put it in my vows. I will never go in an RV out west. But that was insane. And then COVID hit. It took a literal world pandemic for me to get in an RV. But when the world shut down, guess where my kids came? They came home. And I was like, what am I going to do with five kids? And I went, I think looking back on it, honestly, Beth, I think I went to seven. I think I went to seven and I was like, freaking out. Like, what am I going to do with my kids at the time they, I mean, my oldest was nine, 10. I don't know. The math was all running together, but she had just finished fifth grade. And so I had all these littles and I'm like, now's the time the world's shutting down. Let's go in a RV. And my husband said, you're not, you're not well, he's like, he's like, let's give it six weeks. If you still think that. And so what, I don't know, six weeks was like May and I'm like, I still think we should. So we started, we got an RV, we, we fixed it up. It took 12 weeks to get it, you know, we had to modify it for seven people. And then we went on the road for 10 months after that. And, um, it, I can honestly say, okay, this is the thing. I'm marrying a type eight and I ride his energy. I just like, I'm like. He's in his, the wake of energy.

Beth: 24:58

Yes.

Paige: 25:01

And I think that's why it works.

Beth: 25:03

Mm hmm.

Paige: 25:04

and he's also been coached by you through the Enneagram. So he's very aware of my energy and there's a lot of conversations and checking in and healthy communication about, he might have a great idea, but where am I, you know, And be very far apart. So, um, the RV thing was amazing. I would absolutely do it in the heartbeat. I don't regret anything, but it probably was one of the hardest things. And I would say like what the Enneagram has taught me is we are not our number. And when even things that don't feel good, we can let go of maybe the lies. That our personality has told us that we are, and we can be like, maybe I can do this. And we can surprise ourselves. And I think that the whole RV thing was a surprise to myself.

Beth: 25:55

Yeah. No, I love that because like, you know, like our book more than your number and that's why we wrote it. You are more than your main type. We have lots of parts, lots of types within us that are operating. And when we're healthy, we, we integrate them in a very healthy way. So you're bringing in that seven part of your heart and you're like, Let's have fun and we can do this. And then the eight part of your heart is like confident. And like, yeah, I'm going to ride my husband's eight, you know, energy wave and we can go do this. And then bringing in, you know, probably preparedness of your six. And then the four is like, yeah, but we can also, you know, be connected with one another. And so we are more than what our type is. Wants us to think the strategies, just the strategies it has. And it's when we take the time to get out of just that shell of our main type. It's not that our main type is amazing. So when we're at our healthiest, it's going to shine really brightly. I bet. I would love to actually first to hear when you were on that RV trip, as you are really enjoying it, what beautiful parts of the type five that you're healthiest. Did you bring into that space?

Paige: 27:02

Curiosity. I just, I was so curious everywhere we went. I'm like, there is something new to learn here. And so we, we did road schooling, like road schooling is just, you learn about wherever, boy, that's just like an open ended book of like, what do we have every time we arrive somewhere, New Orleans, uh, the Grand Canyon, you know, we were in Colorado learning how to ski. So every place was like, Curiosity, what can we learn? And I think that's where my type five really showed the brightest. And then nature being in nature was very soothing to my type five as well.

Beth: 27:35

Yes, absolutely. Well, thanks for sharing. That's just so fun just to hear. And I, and I do, I love that you mentioned we can do hard things that our types think that we can't do. Um, that doesn't mean we should do them or have to do them, but not to let our, just our type hold us back from, you know, like you said, if you had known about the Enneagram, you may have only had two kids, but now you have these five beautiful children that you adore. And so I love that. Um, okay. So Chris and Kristen, what. About your parenting. Have you done that? You're like, wow, I have done some really big and hard things. I mean, really you're in it right now with the age of kids you're in, but walk us through some of those things that now that you know, the Enneagram, you can go, this is really hard for my type, but I can see how I'm also able to step into the healthy spots and kind of walk us through how you see that happening.

Christine: 28:32

I have two, so my boys, my children go boy, girl, boy, and both boys are on the autism spectrum,

Beth: 28:39

Hmm.

Christine: 28:39

one biological, one adopted. And so both of them have really struggled in the public school system. As you can imagine, we moved into a district on purpose that we thought would be a great fit for them. And both of them have been really difficult. And so I think. I got to a place with both of them where I just felt like I was banging my head against the wall and thinking this is not, this is not my area, the whole, I never wanted to be the classroom mom who brought the cupcakes, or was at the school all the time, or, you know what I mean, I just, that wasn't my, I wanted to do other things with them, not that, and so, but I think, That whole process was so difficult, but also as I learned more and more, I learned so many things, which like a five is going to learn all the things. So I learned, I did all the research. I learned about, you know, state law. I learned about the idea act. I learned about all, you know, I learned about, um, special school districts and what my rights were and what my children's rights were and, uh, and what are the research, you know, all the resources in our city. And I, It, we went from, I went from this feels so hard because they just don't fit into what I expected and it's going to take a lot of time and resources that I feel like I don't have an energy, which I never feel like I have to now I have people who come to me because I know things about how to traverse the system. And I know where other things are and resources are in school. I mean, my son goes to a school specifically because they have an autism program and I can tell you all about it. And I can tell you where the other ones are in the country. You know, I can tell you what, how I can tell you how to sue a school district. If they don't give your child what they need, because we did and we won. So it's like, we have been through all these things that were, yes, they were very, very taxing. But I also learned a whole lot and now I get to share all that stuff with other people and other moms, which I didn't expect that either. Yes,

Beth: 30:42

appreciate that. Cause I'll be honest as a type nine and Jeff will laugh at me when he hears this. I feel overwhelmed just hearing all the things that you have learned, but. That also is super comforting. Like that is such a gift because if my child had those, I would totally lean on someone like you who has that gifting, like that natural gift set of learning all the things. Cause I would probably just feel overwhelmed and maybe shut down or just kind of go along with the system when really I need to stand in the gap for my kids. And I want to, but I wouldn't know how to, and I wouldn't even know where to start. To research and I get overwhelmed and just kind of shut down. That all makes sense.

Christine: 31:25

totally

Beth: 31:25

So I think that's beautiful how God creates us all differently. To also work together and how you've done that. And like you said, even talking about it, you probably think, gosh, that, that seems like really tiring and exhausting. And it was, and it's also beautiful and beneficial and amazing. So thank you for sharing that. That's, that is really

Christine: 31:49

I also, like Paige, have an eight husband with a whole lot of energy and a huge justice streak. So use that for your kids. That, you know, that's

Beth: 31:58

Yeah. Yeah. Well, cause I was going to say, Oh wow. So you really brought you that eight justice in the six. But yeah, if you have a husband that's an eight, it's like, Oh yeah, there it is. Yeah.

Christine: 32:07

right. That's

Beth: 32:08

That's awesome. Uh, Kristen, what about you? Yeah.

Kristen: 32:23

find out in our community all that was happening and I would know, you know, where the fun events were and other people were like. I, I had no idea. So I can relate to that, um, on a little bit different level. Um, I think one of the hardest things was learning how to relate to my kids in a way that, you know, They received, um, better. Um, like I have a very assertive son, a type eight son, and you know, that energy that he brings into the room and brings into our conversations is great. And it was completely foreign to me. So I had to learn how to match that energy and, and feed off of it. And now I love it. You know, I love bantering, you know, with him back and forth. Um, because I've, I've learned how to do it in a way that is fun. Um, so I've had to do that with each of the kids in a different way. Um, but because their personalities are all so different, um, and none of them are five, so they're all relating to the world in a very different way than I am.

Beth: 33:31

yeah. Wow. That's really interesting. Um, okay. So I would love to like talk about more of like, what was, what was really Like if you were to meet a type five mom today who is going through the throws, she hasn't really learned much about the Enneagram or maybe hasn't explored, you know, being a type five, what would, what advice would you give to her? as she is navigating the tough waters of motherhood, like feeling so ambivalent of, I love these people. And I want you to go away. what would you say to a mom who's just learning and trying to, to understand herself better?

Kristen: 34:19

would, I would say, um, that you have. Such a unique perspective and a gift to give to your children and your family. Um, you can connect the dots between things that other people will never be able to connect. You, you can, um, understand things and, and at a different level. level sometimes than other people do, and it's good and okay to get away to recharge. You do not need to feel guilty about that.

Beth: 34:53

What about you, Chris or Paige?

Paige: 34:59

I think

Christine: 34:59

about make, it's okay to have boundaries, even with your children. It's okay for them to learn at a really young age. You don't have access to mom all the time, whenever you want. I would have done that earlier. And I think also, I would say, um, that you're kind of similar what Kristen said, but, you know, There are parts of your personality that, especially with children, your curiosity that Paige keeps mentioning and your love of learning and information is a gift to a child. And I, I remember in places that we would go that were new now, they weren't good, the Great Canyon in New Orleans, but um, wherever we would go, there's always something to learn. You can learn about the trees or the city or the foods you're eating and that's really, really fun with kids. And I would. enjoy it and do it at a level that I just thought was normal and then I would talk about it with other moms and they'd be like, wait, you what? I was like, Oh, I mean, it was, it was fun, you know? And they're like, no, that's not fun. That's for your eight year old, you know? But I think, I think that is a, it is a gift. You can give your kids still. My kids will say, Hey, you know, my 18 year old will call me with facts that he learns because it's still, we still love to learn new things together. And I think that's, you know, that's a good thing about being a five.

Beth: 36:18

Yeah. Absolutely. Paige. What about you? Yeah.

Paige: 36:23

having boundaries. I think that's really important early on. I have this little thing with my kids. That I've taught them of like, like asking me, are you available? You know, just that, that, that question can just be so, um, respectful of like, do you have time for me, mom? And I, I love that. And so, and my husband and I do that as well. Like, are you available just so that that's a simple thing to incorporate in your family and with your kids. Um, Also, I think this echoes what Kristen said of just not feeling guilty for taking breaks, however that looks and that, I mean, you know, That can be in so many different ways. But for me, I remember after having twins, I would go to the gym just for the childcare and I would just

Beth: 37:08

I did that too.

Paige: 37:08

sauna. It's all I did. It wasn't, there's no bounce that body. It was just to sit in the sauna

Beth: 37:14

Yeah.

Paige: 37:15

and the childcare was included. So that two hours, sometimes I would go in the morning and in the evening just to have a break. I think. Because there's such a lack of a village, you know, for mothers now, we have to get really creative. We have to get really creative and there should be no guilt or shame in that.

Beth: 37:35

Yeah. And in fact, it's something for some types, they really need to incorporate like for the fives and the nines and some other types and to not feel bad. Like as a nine, I, I would feel bad. Sitting at boundaries because I'm not making them happy, you know, and now I'm a terrible mom because now they're upset because I just want to be with me, you know, and I wish I could go back and just say, it's okay. Like they'll be fine, you know, or, but I did the same thing. I go to the, um, um, the workout facility and that's where. I would start my day, I work out a little bit and then I'd take a shower and just kind of like slowly integrate into my day because they were being taken care of and having probably more fun than what I was going to be able to give them in that timeframe. And then I was able to enter my day and it was beautiful and it wasn't able to do that, you know, for all the years, but the, the times that I was being. I was able to do that. I really felt so much more refreshed. Um, and so I love that you brought that up. Um, so the last thing I kind of wanted to talk about was the energy reserve inside. So for fives, you know, how I. I talk about it when I'm speaking, but I'd love for you to kind of correct or give different insights is that most people, you know, like, let's say like a cell phone, you plug it in at night and then you wake up and you unplug and it's got a hundred percent and the extroverts will just use an external battery and hang out with people and there they go. They're like recharged. And then the introverts are, you know, by the end of the day, they're like, yeah, you know, I need to kind of slow it down and kind of move, you know, towards, uh, not doing as much, but fives, Tend to feel like they wake up with about 25, 30, whatever. Interactive battery life for the entire day. And I try to help people understand that because if you only had 25 percent of your phone for the entire day, you are going to be very mindful of how you're using your phone. You're not just going to stream Netflix or listen to things all day long because It's going to be gone. And what I understand from a five is that the fear, if you know, it's logically not going to happen. The fear is that if the battery goes down to zero and the phone literally turns off, I don't know if I can turn it back on again. And so I have to be very careful of reserving at least some energy so that I don't experience catastrophic depletion. And that's the interaction with others. So. I would love to hear as a mom that has that, how can, uh, significant others, spouses, your parents, uh, friends, how can they help you? And then even your kids, as they get older, how can they help you? How can they understand you better come towards you? Like you were saying, Paige, are you available? What are some other ways that you've learned that really can help? Preserve your energy while also being fully mom. Yeah.

Paige: 40:42

I remember after, so I had twins and then I had a surprise pregnancy. So I had three babies in two years and it was, um, I remember we would still try to do date night once a week. And so Chip, my husband would come home and we would, he would have a sitter lined up and she, everything would be fine. But I would get in the car and I was so drained. I couldn't speak sometimes for the first 45 minutes,

Kristen: 41:04

Um,

Paige: 41:04

literally. And you know what? There was, there was no like, what's wrong with you? Uh, why aren't you talking to me? You know? He did not take it personally at all because of you, Beth, and your work. Thank you so much. Because he understood, like, this is like five, six, seven o'clock at night, and I've done like 14 hours of work already. And here I am, I am so done. And so it was like, the date wasn't about interacting. It was just for him to give me space. And he would like gently bring me out of my shell throughout the night. And it was like, That first 45 minutes, it was silence.

Beth: 41:45

Yeah. And that as, and I think, you know, cause when we were working together, it was like, it was the understanding of it that made all the difference that he was able. Cause you know, I was at eight. That's just not the life he lives, right? Like he's go, go, go all the time. And like, you know, yeah. So you have five kids, you juggle them and then you go off and you juggle something else, you know, until the body. Yeah, until it, the body does shut down for them, but so it doesn't make sense to an eight, but he also is fiercely protective of you. And so when he was able to understand, Oh, wait, this isn't us thing or me thing. This is just what she needs. I could really see that shift in him just to go. Okay. So she needs some time to, you know, re energize. So it's basically, I tell people, it's like plugging your cell phone into a wall socket. So like for you, those first 45 minutes was just you plugging in so that you could literally have enough energy to talk. Maybe the rest of the date night or even being present in the evening. And for me, I always try to help families, um, or coworkers or friends to ask the type five, Hey, where's your battery life at right now? Like I would love to go to get ice cream or I would love to hang out with a Smith's tonight, but where are you at? Like if, if we're going to actually do that, what do you need to actually get to that place? Is that something you guys have incorporated even in your families in communicating with you and having them attune to what your needs are? And if so, what's that been like? So, uh, Paige, you kind of said, you know, mom, are you available? Are there any other things that you guys have done? Yeah,

Kristen: 43:30

we've planned for activities that need a lot of energy for earlier in the day. Um, if you're going to have, uh, you know, something that that I need to to give a lot of energy to at night, then I need to plan ahead for that. And I need to have a forewarning of that. And I need to take the time in the middle of the day, you know, to get myself ready for that. You know, that goes for activities that take a lot of physical energy, but also mental energy. You know, don't have a hard conversation with me at 10 p. m. You know, it is not going to go well. Um, catch me first thing in the morning, you know, and then I can be fully there, you know, and present. So it's, it's a lot of just finding out the time of the day that works well, uh, for us.

Beth: 44:19

that's good.

Paige: 44:20

I think I was going to say, in addition to what Kristen said, um, when you're, you're a large family structure is really important to like bedtimes and routine, because like Kristen said, you kind of need to know where that battery life is towards the end of the day and witching hour and then bedtime. And so, um, we incorporated a lot of routine and structure into our family that I think other types may be. May not need, but I did need.

Beth: 44:48

Yeah. That's really good. Really good. Chris, what about you?

Christine: 44:51

I think before even the actual practical things, just, I feel like I have said a lot to my husband and my friends and even my children. This, uh, please don't take this personally. Please don't take this personally because I, because sometimes they'll forget. And I'll they'll get this look on their face when I'm like, I don't know that I can do that right now. Like, Oh, is it me? Did I offend you? And are you bored of me or all that? And I'll, I'll just tell them no, no, no, no, no. This is all about me and my level of energy. Don't take it personally. And I see their relief on their face. So that's a big thing. And then I think too, the structure is helpful. And, and honestly, because of my youngest child, he needs sleep. 10 times the structure that I do because he's autistic and has a low IQ and he needs even more routine than I do. And so that is helpful that it just kind of sets our family on a trajectory of that sort of routine and that I, it is very rare that I go to bed too late or that I, all that kind of stuff. It's sort of baked in, you know, but, and I was thinking too, when we were talking before about being a mom. You cannot as a five, you cannot compare yourself to other moms. It's like lethal because you're just not going to be like them. You're just not. But let me tell you when you're doing vocab or like some crazy science project, you're going to blow that thing out of the water. So like, let's wait for that.

Beth: 46:16

Or go on an RV and do school wherever you're at. You're going to kill it. You're going to kill it. Okay. I did think of one last thing. Cause Paige, I remember us talking about one time you were like, there's cause you were, this is when. Your kids were super little. And I think there was one in particular person, it might've been a type two that really wanted to come over and help you at like, whenever, like just show up at your door and you were like, terrified that this person would do this. And you were like, I don't know what to do because that feels so like mean, but I really just can't have her show up. But I, you know, it was just a real conundrum because you knew this person, this was the way they were trying to love you. And you're like, this is the opposite of what feels like love for me as a type five. So can you guys just talk. Like a little bit about that of asking for help, people giving you help, what advice or insight can you give others? Because there are going to be for these moms out there that are type fives, they're going to be people that want to, you know, inundate them with help or ideas or advice or all of these things. What is that like for type five and what would be the best way for people to truly help or support a type five mom or, you know, at least for what it was for you. So Paige, let's start with you on that one.

Christine: 47:36

Silence.

Paige: 47:45

up and have a rotating door of help. But that felt so invasive of my privacy. Fives love privacy. And so for somebody just to walk in that I didn't have a lot of trust in, to care for my baby or to hold my baby felt kind of threatening in a way. And so I think I, I would have done so much better had I known myself and had the language to say, please just leave the food on the doorstep and go away like something like that. Like, um, you know, make them a meal, leave it outside and, you know, write me a card. And that would have been perfect. Yeah, because it was a privacy thing of like needing to feel like I just needed my space. Yeah.

Beth: 48:28

Yeah. Chris or Kristen, have you had these kinds of experiences? And it doesn't even have to be tied to motherhood. It could be just, you know, any, any time of life, but people just really wanting to help, but it can actually feel like either the opposite or not helpful.

Kristen: 48:42

Yeah, I experienced that a lot. Um, and, um, my husband is a type two, so he is a helper. He loves to help me. Um, and his heart is so good in that. And oftentimes, um, it might not feel like help. And so we have to work through that of, When I want help and when I don't want help. So I just encourage, you know, people to ask a type five, do you want some help right now? And then if they don't, that's okay. You know, autonomy is, is a very high value for me and I want to be able to do it myself if I can, um, and feel competent in that and, but yet have the freedom to ask for help when I need that and want that and oftentimes receiving it when it's a good time to receive it.

Beth: 49:30

sure. That's great. Chris, what about you?

Christine: 49:33

Yeah, I would say your cell phone illustration, if you, it's like showing up on my doorstep Is like, um, saying it's like sending me the Netflix video when my phone's at 3 percent and you're like, you gotta watch this right now. I'm like, no.

Beth: 49:50

Yeah.

Christine: 49:51

um, planning and asking, like Kristen said, like, just ask and I'll tell you like, nope, that doesn't work. But here's a time that could, I feel like I, I, you know, I have not honestly met a lot of female fives. I feel like they're a little bit. Hard to find. And so usually women are coming at you the way that they would want to be served, which totally makes sense. And so I have learned to say, I bet that would feel really good to you. And I so appreciate you offering it to me. Here's what would feel good to me. And then, you know, they, it's not so offensive because it can feel so brash, but then to say like, actually I've worked kind of differently and I love that you're offering help, here's how you could give it to me and just to sort of

Beth: 50:35

love that. Yeah. And I think most, most moms are going to really appreciate, you know, just that because you're affirming their heart, um, but you're also saying that is amazing. But what would help me? So I think that's really key. And like you were saying, letting people know, you know, Hey, don't take it personally. This is just a, my energy thing, but I'm very open and honest where honestly as nines, we're going to just kind of go along to get along. We may not be able to even know that we need those kinds of boundaries and how to even share them. So for those that do know fives out there. You can ask, would this be helpful or when would this be helpful? How can I best serve you? And they're going to know, and they're going to be able to tell you, which is a real game changer and really helpful. Well, guys, thank you so much for just being here. Cause I'll be, you know, it's hard to kind of, like you said, find type five women and then to get you all together at the same time. I'm like, this is amazing. It's a miracle. Um, and. Vibes are very private. And so thank you again for just showing up, being authentic, sharing with us, because there's going to be a lot of type five moms. Okay. Well, maybe not a lot because there's rarely very few of you guys, but there will be type five moms listening and they're going to feel so encouraged and validated, but the people that know type five moms, they're going to understand a lot more how to truly love and care and support them. So thank you guys so much for showing up today.

Christine: 52:04

Thanks for having us.

Paige: 52:04

Beth.

Beth: 52:06

Wow. Wasn't that so fun to hear from Type 5 moms about their real authentic experiences to share vulnerably with us? Well, next week we actually get to start our cohorts that we registered back in May. And we get to start them. So I'm so excited because moms of the same Enneagram type are going to be in community together. Now, if that's something you're interested in for the next round that we do, let us know, go to Enneagram for moms. com and get notified about the next time we have cohorts open, but I can't wait to guide all of these, uh, Nine cohorts, but also to learn from them. Well, I hope that you enjoy today's episode and learning from three type five moms. If you want to know more, please get my book, pre order it, Enneagram for Moms before July 9th. So you can get tons of resources and bonuses. Thanks guys for showing up today and next week we get to do the same thing, but with three type six moms, I can't wait for you to hear from them as well. We'll see you then.