Beth: 0:00

Hey everyone. your Enneagram coach, the Beth McCord, your coach. And I am so excited. are at the series been been enjoying. And that series is listening moms each the nine types and is As because remember, all see through lenses and we we experience and then behave in ways. So today's going to be a fun day. be fun because with two sevens, the entertaining and we're this series because my book. Yeah. Enneagram for for Moms out July I would love you go a book, pre the book, tell mom friends, is coming out because this book, I wrote it for you mind it's book I wish I had when my kids And in my daughter Libby our first grandbaby. And so it's this awesome, Uh, of of like book that can give to as she starts to parent and like really understanding who God her to be for her Not has be me, she to like anyone else, but her. And that's I want want for all you God created you special and unique kiddos. don't have become anyone else. You create just the way he created you. a lot of we get up into, uh, All of shame cycles. And I've got to be to be like this person that this this, says that no. what is is it about you that brings such goodness and strength to your family? Since created you the way you need need the biggest focus is not someone else. It's becoming the healthiest version of yourself. And that's exactly how I'm going it you in in this book. So grab my Uh, Enneagram for for moms@enneagramformoms.com. And if you pre-order it before July I have of extra goodies Go back to that website, moms.com and me you pre-ordered it, and I will give you of fun giveaways for for you to have. That is why behind these these moms, you matter, you absolutely we want you to be your your kiddos love you and need you. All right. So today going to dive into the the of So buckle up. up. Here we All right. So here we are with Amanda and Michelle. Can you guys introduce yourselves? And we're going to dive right into what it's like being a type seven mom. So Amanda, why don't we start with you?

Amanda: 2:58

Okay. Um, hi, I'm Amanda Winfrey. I am an Enneagram 7, obviously. Um, and I'm 32. I'm from the Cleveland area in Ohio. Uh, I have done lots of different things, which you'll probably hear throughout the podcast. Currently just started a brand new job today, uh, working for a construction company, kind of doing admin work and reception work and just finished. I'm not finished, but was a stay at home mom for the last year. Uh, I have a five year old son. His name is Josiah and I'm married to a five.

Beth: 3:29

Ah,

Amanda: 3:30

Yes.

Beth: 3:32

Well, definitely have to get into that.

Amanda: 3:34

Yes.

Beth: 3:35

yes, that is, but it's, it's very common. So

Amanda: 3:39

That's good to hear because sometimes we feel like we're unicorns.

Beth: 3:43

yeah. It's interesting combination. It's a wonderful combination. And we see it actually quite often. Same with twos and fives, which people are always like, is it really a thing? I'm like, yeah, it's a thing. Um, so, okay. So that will be really fun. Um, um, Now, Michelle, tell us a little bit about you.

Michelle: 4:04

Well, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Um, my name's Michelle. I am in from the Dallas area. I am the mom to a 2 year old little boy and I have been married to my husband for about the last 9 years. We are college sweethearts. Um, and he is a type 8.

Beth: 4:24

okay. Yeah. And that's common too. Um, but that's, that's more like, Oh yeah, I get it. Kind of common, right? Like a lot of people

Michelle: 4:32

yeah,

Beth: 4:32

that totally makes sense. So you all are just like probably constantly having fun and going and doing and like lots of like energy, positive energy, but also realistic energy. Um, yeah, just getting out there and doing life. Right. Cool.

Michelle: 4:50

yes, everything has lots of energy all the time.

Beth: 4:53

Whereas Amanda, for the two of you, there's a bit of back and forth.

Amanda: 4:57

Yes, there is yes there is it was so we have been married it'll be seven years this summer And it was initially it was a struggle just because it was like, oh I wanted to go, he wanted to stay, but we both have realized like we've helped each other. So he's helped me slow down and I've helped him get out. And so we've just talked about how much we've actually really benefited the other person of like, I'm, I always want to go, but I don't always need to go. Like sometimes being present is okay. Um, and then for him, it's like sometimes getting out is really good for him. And he's like, I'm so glad that we did that. Or I'm so glad we did the spontaneous thing. Initially I didn't want to do it, but I'm like really glad that we went and did this thing. And so I think we've. really, we're learning how to balance each other out. But initially it was like, I would push harder to do something and then he'd pull back more. And so it was like, you know, it was a lot of like feuds at the beginning of our marriage, just trying to figure that out. But over time we've really learned how to balance each other out in that area.

Beth: 5:54

I love that. And I love that the Enneagram can help with that so quickly. Um, my mom and dad are, my dad's a seven. So like you guys, and my mom's a six. And so we, we talk about my dad being like a balloon and he's like, but he'll literally take off. If not tethered down, you know, like, and so my mom's like holding onto the string and so she's the realistic one, right? You know, like you have, you have to think of all the things, Bruce, you know, and so she's kind of like keeping him tethered to reality, but. She's more of a phobic six. So she's thinking of all the worst case scenarios and like not wanting to get into life and do things. So he helps her to kind of keep her head lifted up to what is positive, what is possible. So totally this, and they've been married 55 years, so

Amanda: 6:45

I love

Beth: 6:45

can be opposites and it still works beautifully. Um, they didn't, they did not have the Enneagram, but thankfully they were just really amazing people. And. Figured it out and they're still figuring it out.'cause I think we'll always be figuring it out. But, um, so yeah. I love hearing that, Amanda. That's so great. How you guys have already used the Enneagram in that way.

Amanda: 7:03

Yeah. Like the moment we figured it out, we're like, Oh my gosh, this makes so much sense. We were able to put to words what we were trying to figure out. And it just has helped us be able to communicate so much better because now like, I understand him more. Like he's not trying to get away from me. He just needs to recharge because he'll give me 150 percent of his attention. And, but he, so he uses it all. And so he's like, a lot of times people will say like a five, just, they have a smaller battery life. He's like, it's not that I have a smaller battery life. It's that I give all of my battery life. And then I need to go home to recharge so that I can get everything that I have. to you later. And so it's like when he needs alone time. So I sometimes I'll struggle. So I'm like, I want to play

Beth: 7:42

Yeah,

Amanda: 7:43

I say, but you know, I'm like, but he's not doing this to like, get away from me. He's doing this because he wants to give more of himself to me.

Beth: 7:50

I love that. That's so, so good. Okay. So we're going to dive into the world of type sevens being seven mom. And I was going to show this before I hit record, but I was like, no, I'm going to share this online on, on, on the line. That's like the movie. Anyway, um, on air. And so one of my very first clients was a type seven and she was younger. So she was like in her early twenties. And she came over to do the session. And. I knew her. So I was like, Hey, Jeff, go get us some Sonic, uh, uh, blasts. And so he went and he got a Sonic blast and we just had a great time going through what is kind of hard to go through, which is a reality check of the internal world. So it was great to kind of have that buffer. So I had a really great time working with her and. Yeah. Just kind of made it fun. So that's what I want to do with you guys here. So let's start off with more of the fun side of what is it like to be a type seven mom from the strength perspectives? Like what strengths do you bring to motherhood? Uh, let's go with. I was going to pick you anyway.

Amanda: 9:02

Perfect.

Michelle: 9:04

Um, I would say that I think something that is really easy for seven. It's just to find excitement in things and to make the mundane exciting, to make everyday exciting. Um, I saw a quote one time that said, you know, your everyday is their childhood. And so when you think back to your childhood and what you remember about your childhood, like that just made me want to make His everyday exciting, even if it's, you know, even if we're staying home or we're just going to the playground, you know, how does, how does that fun? How is that an adventure? Um, so I think we're really good at that. Both me and my husband often, if we're just trying to get our son out the door, no matter what it is. We, you know, we'll wake him up from a nap and ask him if he wants to go on an adventure. Uh, the other day it was to the car dealership. So it doesn't matter what it is. We just, I think we're really good at like posing things in a positive way, in an exciting way. So I think that's like, definitely one of our strengths. Let's

Beth: 10:10

That would be fun. Like if someone woke me up from a nap and said, Hey, you want to go do something? Yeah, let's go. Amanda. What about you? What are the some of the strengths that you see that you bring?

Amanda: 10:21

I think for me, it's the spontaneity, the let's go do something fun too. So it's like trying again, trying to make those mundane things really fun. So, you know, we're out in the backyard and playing and it's like, all right, Josiah, we're going to go on an adventure and you're going to go, you're going to go try to track a moose. And so he's like got sticks and he's like going through the backyard. And I'm like sitting, I'm literally sitting in the dirt. With like pretend like sticks making like a pretend fire and like I'd like my shoes are off and I'm like, I'm just I'm picturing my cousins and I always loved playing outside and so I'm just picturing like I'm trying to almost not recreate my childhood for him, but like bring some of my favorite parts of my childhood and make it fun and exciting for him to enjoy being a kid. And so I'm like, I'm making him go get me leaves and pretending it's bread. And we're like cooking over the fire. You know, it's like, I just, I want him to look back at his childhood finally, and just remember. fun times with mom, fun times with dad, fun times with family. So I feel like a, one of the main words I say to him all the time is, did you have fun today? How was your day? Was it good? Did you have fun? And so always just trying to like point out those like fun moments in his day. Um, and then just trying to like, You know, encourage him to go on an adventure. Um, and, or we'll like, you know, during COVID it was, he was one. And so we would just, we'd always go on car rides. We just, I needed to get out of the house cause I felt trapped. So it's like, we just get in the car and we would just go drive somewhere. And we would just pretend, you know, we're just on an adventure. We're just going down Lake road in, um, in Cleveland, just driving by the lake. But it's like, we're out though, you know? So that's, that's something that I,

Beth: 12:01

so all of that sounds really fun. Um, um, and as you guys are talking, I'm thinking of my dad and him taking me fishing and yeah, he would just always make things really fun, but sometimes sevens bring the less healthy aspects or the weaknesses. What are some of the weaknesses you've seen from the type seven that have, you know, Do you want to do this? that you've heard a lot about, whether it's. It's caused you suffering and pain or caused others suffering in pain. I didn't know that's a really hard cause. I've been sort of like, I don't know. You want to think about this? You know, so I know this is going to be a little challenging, Um, but what are, or feedback people have, you know, given you, what are some things that you can see? It's hard as a type seven mom to do.

Amanda: 12:49

Um, I would say for me it's staying present. I'm constantly in the future. I'm constantly dreaming about something. I'm thinking about something else. And so it's really hard for me to just like be present and sit down and play with sticks and pretend that I'm building a fire. You know, like I have to sometimes be like, tell myself, like, we have a schedule. And so I'm like, we have mommy sire play time for like 30 minutes. And those 30 minutes are actually really hard for me because I'm like, I have to sit here and like, play. I can't, I can't go do another task. I can't go do something else. Like I just have to be present. And so, and I really try to not have my phone. Um, habits of the household is a book that a friend of mine gave to me and I, Love it. I haven't finished it. Seven quality right there. I'm in between like 20 books right now. Um, but, um, but he talked about like, you know, having a set aside time to be with your kids and not having your phone and like making it be like 30 minutes a day. So while I was a stay at home mom, that was something that I was really trying to do was be Present, but it was a struggle. And there were some days it was like, I kept putting it off. Cause it's like, I love being with my son and when we do play and when I actually give him everything, then we do have a great time, but it's, it's just shutting my brain off. Um, and just being there, I think I'll say one more thing. I don't want to, um, I'll just, I'll say one more thing. The other one I would say is, um, is, um, discipline. It's very, very hard for me. I, I avoid it like the plague. And so, but I've watched his behavior when I don't discipline, how he treats other people, how he treats me, how he treats my husband when he comes home from work. Like it's, it's, He, he needs discipline and it's not that I'm hurting him, it's, but I, I almost want that instant gratification of no pain versus like end game. Um, and so I have, which I probably will bring up later on, but there's, um, a Christian organization that my husband and I started doing at the beginning of when we were parents that has really helped. me ground me in parenting with discipline, but even having tools to help with discipline still really hard for me. Um, so yeah, I don't like it.

Beth: 15:02

yeah, because I'm assuming there's probably two things happening. One, it is not fun for anyone. No parent enjoys that process. Well, at least that I know of, um, you know, we, we all do want our kids to be on the right path and doing the right things. And, you know, from any perspective, whether it's having fun or getting things done, or, you know, there's all the different types or for me, just let's just chill, let's all get along. Um, but, um, But like for you as a seven, you know, it's painful to have to do a negative thing. So to discipline is a negative, it's a downer and the other person doesn't appreciate it either. So then it's a double whammy, you know, and like your kid's not going to like it. So there's just like probably the worst. I, I never really thought of that. Um, especially, you know, just being a daughter of a seven. Cause my dad was more of the disciplinary one. Yeah. I didn't get in trouble very much. Of course it is a nine. Like I'm trying to just keep everyone happy. But I did get in trouble from time to time and I remember some,'cause my brother and I fought, you know, like siblings do. And I remember sometimes my mom would say, just wait till your father comes home. And just that, and this is back in the eighties, you have to understand. Um, just that thought. I was like, oh no, what's that gonna be like? And he was so mild. Now that you guys are saying this, I'm like, Oh, that's why, you know, like he didn't have to really do well. And part of my personality was like, just the saying of that was like enough discipline, but he was just so mild in his discipline that now I'm like, Oh, I see why you didn't want to have to do that either. Um,

Amanda: 16:49

I

Beth: 16:49

that's so funny.

Amanda: 16:50

think for me, the other thing is I feel trapped when I do it. Like, as I started learning more about the seven, starting to hear about feeling trapped, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I can't even explain how real that feeling is. Cause it's like, I don't know how long this is going to last. How long is it going to keep disobeying? How long am I going to have to keep reprimanding? Like. Is this going to go on, especially with being him being an only child, this being my first child. I don't know how long this discipline or like, you know, this disobedience will last. And it's not like he's a, he's really had that disobedient of a kid that like my family friends listening or be like Amanda, he's like such an angel. But when you're home, he does, he does disobey. And so it's like trying to remind myself and Lord, just being like Amanda, but he needs. To be visible. This is going to help his future and me being such a future driven person Kind of helps me focus and say like, okay, I'm not gonna be trapped This isn't gonna last forever But he needs this in order to succeed and grow as a man Like he's got to have this in order to be successful in society And so I have to put down what I want for what's like better for

Beth: 17:54

Long term. Yeah. Yeah. Michelle, I kind of saw you nodding a lot.

Michelle: 17:59

Yeah. Yeah,

Beth: 18:01

how you feel too?

Michelle: 18:02

that's funny that she brings up the feeling trapped thing. That's something I think she just put into words that I felt, but not really been able to, like, I guess, put a grasp on. But yeah, it's you said in these moments when. You're having to discipline and it is, it's like, Oh my gosh, when is this going to end? And yeah, exactly. You feel trapped. Yes. Thank you for that. Um, no, I'll, I'll kind of piggyback off of what she said as far as like discipline is, is probably one of the harder things. Um, I grew up, my dad is an eight and my mom is a nine, but she has a very strong, um, wing one. And so there was a lot of. While she was very, like, kind about it and very sweet about it, there were rules, and there were quite a few rules. And so, you know, you followed the rules. And I think I was just afraid of consequence, and I didn't like the feeling of consequence, so I followed the rules. But, um, but now, parenting, I look at these rules and I say, Okay, but, like, why? Like, you need to sit down and eat your dinner at the dinner table. Okay, but,

Amanda: 19:11

But why?

Michelle: 19:14

And so I'm trying to find this balance of, I know the rules I was raised with. But is there really, like, hard, definite purpose to them or not? And so I think almost, like, not going too far in the other direction is kind of a struggle for me sometimes, not being too lackadaisical. Um, so yeah, the discipline thing is hard. And then secondly for me, I often find myself It's it's not a direct effect on my son, but it's definitely like a secondary one and probably one. He's going I'm afraid he's going to pick up behaviors versus instruction is Uh, like getting things done that I need to get done like the dishes or laundry and not putting those to the side and choosing You know the more fun or task i'm more excited about even if it is something I have to do And so those are things I look at and i'm like, I don't want him You To model this behavior in the long run and to be better than so those are kind of I think the Struggles I have that I know are definitely seven

Beth: 20:19

But I do think, I think that's, there's the flip side.'cause everything you know, that has a weakness, has a strength. And I think. The strength for you guys and kind of pushing back on, but why this rule, it, it's actually a good thing because is it really beneficial and helpful? And if it is, okay, if it is, is it. Is disciplining and having the rule this exact way, what's beneficial. You know, so there's, I think, you know, growing up, you know, especially being a Gen X or where there was lots of like really rigid rules and all the things it is, it's kind of like now really, like, does it really have to play out that way? And, you know, I think what's great about you guys is you can envision and be creative. Um, And you're being mindful that, okay, yeah, he does need boundaries and rules. Like I remember someone talking about, I can't remember who it was, um, but it's talking about boundaries and rules. And they said, think of it like being a school, um, playground on top of a skyscraper. So like when you're in New York, sometimes there's like basketball courts up on the, you know, on a skyscraper. And if there's no fence where the kid's going to play. They're going to stay in the middle. They're not going to, they're not going to venture towards the outside. But if it has a really tall fence that they'll just know that they're safe and they can go all the way up to the edge, you know, and even touch the fence cause they know that they're safe and secure. And I was like, Oh, that's so helpful. So it actually gives them freedom. Um, Versus the opposite of what we think. And so when I saw that, I was like, Oh, okay, that's really good. It's really helpful. Um, okay. So I want to piggyback on that and I want to kind of take you guys in the direction of, so we talked about discipline and we talked about adventures, but I want to talk about feelings. So I know,

Amanda: 22:19

Are you sure?

Michelle: 22:22

Okay.

Beth: 22:27

go, you know, when you were a child or just when you're, you know, a parent right now, it can kind of be whatever, but I love the movie inside out and the new ones coming out here soon. And joy is the quintessential seven. And as we all know, she forever was trying to get rid of sadness, the whole movie, like stop, you

Amanda: 22:45

Yes.

Beth: 22:45

and then at the very end, that beautiful scene where she's like, Oh, it's the combination of it all that makes life so beautiful. And so I'd love to hear from your guys perspective as moms now, um, what's that like? Because you can bring all the fun, but there's a lot of hard things in life. And what is it like to be a mom, to kind of wrap your arms around all of it? And, um, be in the moment of the sadness and thinking of the joy with your kids. Cause I'm sure, you know, that in itself is a unique gift to be able to, um, sit in, cause your kids are going to be sorrowful. They're going to, they're going to bump their knee. They're going to, a friend's going to hurt their feelings. Um, there's. Lots of things that go on in life, but you guys can be there, but also, um, bring out the beauty of what's also there. So can you guys talk a little bit about what that's like for you guys?

Michelle: 23:46

Yeah, um, I mean, thinking through a few things as you were talking, um, I know I, I feel like we're, we're about to. Approach kind of our first. Big situation with my son. That's going to be hard for him at first, cause he's not going to understand the whole picture. We're moving schools. He was in a daycare preschool and we're moving him into a new environment. It's a Christian environment. It's something we've wanted him in now for a little while. And we're just finally, um, making the move. But, um, already from a couple of little experiences, we know he's going to miss his friends. And so while I know. This place is. You know, the kind of environment we absolutely want him in, no questions. That one factor is so heavy on me and so hard and I'm almost like there are parts of me that almost don't want to move him because I don't want him to deal with that. So yeah, um, So it's funny. Obviously, I'm not really great with feelings other than anything that's happy or joyful or positive. Um, but my, um, my best friend, she happens to be a three, um, but she has just over time learned to deal with emotions. I would say much better than I have. And so I have taken a lot of guidance from her over the years. Just, you know, by circumstance that feelings are okay. And you don't always have to fix everything. And I was always the one to come in when she was having a bad day and be like, well, you can do this or that, or here's a silver lining. And she like. Very lovingly at times would push back and say like I don't need you to fix it I just need you to tell me like, you know It's okay to feel what I'm feeling and it's valid and you know Then eventually we can get on to the road of fixing if there if there is such a thing So he's definitely somebody that's taught me that you know how to deal with feelings better and that's something I'm slowly starting to do With my own son. So yeah, and you know, I think You Especially having a little boy, sometimes we want to tell them, you know, toughen up. It's going to be okay. But, um, especially at this age, I think it's okay to lean into some of those harder feelings sometimes, even though. Yeah.

Beth: 26:25

wanting and needing like, okay, you see me, you hear me, you care about me. Like I'm okay. It's going to be okay, but this is also hard. And a lot of times that's really what we need though. I think we all get scared of just entering the process. Like what's this, what's going to happen? Like, or like what you guys were saying earlier, like how long is this going to last, you know, like. Is it going to be just this bad for five minutes and then we're on, you know, to the next thing? Um, or is this going to be, you know, several weeks or a month or, you know, um, and that can, especially for seven, be quite scary to feel that kind of feeling trapped, like you guys were saying earlier. Um, Amanda, what about you?

Amanda: 27:09

Yeah. So I would say, um, we, so in like last summer, we had like a situation happen at our house where we had to move abruptly. And so we, um, my son at first, he was like, not really phased by like, he didn't really understand what was going on, but it was a huge season last year. The last year has been a huge season of transition. I lost my job in April due to like a big, um, layoff. And then, um, The Lord told us, my husband and I to not work for a while and just, I was given severance and the Lord just kind of told us just to enjoy the summer together. And so, um, we did that. And so we had like all this time as a family, just the three of us for the whole summer. And it was wonderful. Um, but then this thing happened in August where we had to move very quickly. And so, um, we moved and my son started preschool for the first time. So it was his first time moving, being away. And it wasn't until like December that it hit him. And so he started like, he just started behaving in ways that we've never seen him behave, which is where all this discipline stuff was coming from. And so I was getting angry with him because I'm like, why are you disobeying me? Why are you acting disrespectful? And I watched him. I don't want to get emotional because I just, I love him so much, but I watched him see my anger and he would escalate with me. And because he wanted to be seen. And so I'm getting angry with him because he's scared and he's sad and I'm getting mad at him for it. And then he would, and then retaliate and get angry. And the moment I would just stop, my husband was kind of just like, he would come home from work and we would process it. And he was so gracious with me. And, um, it was like, Amanda, he just like, wants to know that you love him. He just wants to know that like you're there. And so, um, I started to just, I would, I would, I've, I've watched, I've been practicing. I'll stop myself when me and him started to kind of get at it with each other. And I'll stop and I'll look him in the eyes and I'll go, buddy, mommy's not mad at you. And he just immediately calms down. And he's like, mommy, I just thought that you were, I thought you were angry with me. Cause your voice sounded angry. And it's like, I mean, it's the worst thing you can ever hear as a parent. And so it's like, I, I want, I'm trying to catch myself when I get angry with him. And because I don't like his negative emotions. And so I'm responding in anger. I'm going straight into the anger triad and, but my fear is like responding in anger, I think is really what it is. And so, um, and so, but I, if I look him in the eye and I tell him that I'm not mad at him, that I love him, that I forgive him, he immediately calms down. Like I've noticed that. I just have to, I have to stop and I have to breathe, because I don't stop, I just constantly go. And so I have to stop, I have to actually think, because I think so fast that I just move. Um, and so I have to stop, I have to think and then respond to him. And so, you know, um, being able to not lash out at him just like instantly, and just kind of like breathe and then. Just try to show him that I'm not mad at him or that like, or if I am upset, like I can say mommy's in a bad mood or mommy's upset, but I still love you. I still care for you. And no, try to teach him. It's okay to have these emotions and it's okay for you to be upset, but you also have to be respectful and obey, you know, all those kinds of things. So, um, do you feel like that answers your question?

Beth: 30:31

Oh, absolutely.

Amanda: 30:32

Okay.

Beth: 30:35

And I love, you know, you know, just your, your emotions that well up for him, you know, it's just so beautiful. Like, you know, you, like you guys were saying earlier about using the Enneagram and understanding other people and their intentions, but I think you guys understanding your own intentions, you know, like, I know that. I love him and I'm only getting upset because I want us to get from where we are to the other side so we can have more fun. But I'm scared that we're not, we're going to be stuck in this, you know, forever or whatever, you know, it feels like. Um, and so that's really beautiful that you then pause, take time to reorient yourself, get self regulated and then move. You know, in a new way, which is just exactly what, and then repairing. I mean, that's ultimately that's, you know, what kids are looking for in those moments, because we're all going to make mistakes. They're going to make mistakes, but when they learn and experience true, uh, repair and reconciliation model to them, well, one, they're going to feel a ton better because it's like, Oh, wow. Okay. We're okay now. But then they will know when they're older, how to really do it well. So I think that's. Um,

Michelle: 31:50

Silence.

Beth: 32:17

you know, she's very, you know, like a type eight, you know, like. Have a lot of autonomy and control of my life. And I mean, yeah, she was married, but you know, they can kind of negotiate and like, this is what we're doing. And all that stuff, but with the baby, you know, especially if you get a colicky baby or, you know, all the things it's like your life isn't. Your own so much, you know, as it was, we all know it can go a lot of different ways. And so she felt so out of control and didn't really know what to do with that space. Of course she learned and grew in that moment, but she also didn't want to like tell anyone because it was so vulnerable. And like, does anyone else feel this way? And just that vulnerability. But I'd love to hear from you guys, like when you guys became a new mom, what was that like from a type seven perspective? Like what were the great parts about it? And then what was like the shocking, Oh my gosh, this is really what I'm feeling part. Cause I bet you a lot of type seven moms are going to be like, Oh my word, finally, someone said it, named it or whatever. So tell us what it was like for you guys,

Amanda: 33:21

I, so it was hard for me, actually. I, I, my whole life I've wanted to be a mom. And so I thought it was going to be really easy. But being completely honest, like, I was like, I think, I think this is, I'm going to be great at it. I'm great with kids, like. I think, I think this is, I'm going to be great. Um, it was really tough. It was really, really tough. And, um, I think I, I heard a lot of negative things from people while I was pregnant that I kind of brought into my pregnancy. Like one of them, a mom being, she had like, I think she's been a mom for nine years and she was like, I haven't slept in in nine years. I felt so trapped. I can't even tell you. I was like, you haven't slept in. Are you serious? What am I going to do? And so I. I, I am catching myself. It's almost having like a, not a soul tie, but close to like being like, I have to have, I have to be able to sleep in and feeling like if I don't get that, like I'm, I'm missing something. Um, and so I feel like there was a couple of those things that were kind of like in my head. Um, so initially starting off, it was really tough. Um, we went through like, right when I had my son, we went through a really tough church hurt and so we felt pretty abandoned. Um, and then it went straight into COVID. And so my husband and I both went into like kind of a dark state. And so I feel like Josiah was like the only thing getting us up in the morning. And, um, I was talking to a mentor of mine. I was like, I, I feel like I'm failing him. Like, I feel like I'm totally letting him down. Like. like, shouldn't I be happy? Shouldn't this be fun? Shouldn't I be just like thriving? And she, I was like, why would God give me a kid now in like the darkest season of my life? Why on earth would God give me a kid now? And she's like, man, I don't, I don't want you to ask that question. She's like, God, he is bringing joy into your life. He is a source of joy for your family. She's like, one kids are resilient. To he is a source of joy for your family and like you have, you guys have to move for something, you know, we have to get up and take care of somebody else. We can't focus and just sulk in. The hardship that we're going through. We need to like, Josiah is actually the source of joy and life in our home right now. And so, um, and that's when I discovered the Enneagram and the Lord really, really used the darkest season of our life to actually become one of the most healing seasons of our life. Um, and so I would say initially that starting off with being a mom was a struggle. One, I was like the first. Grand, not, we have like levels of grandkids in my family. So like some that are older than us and then some that were all kind of the same age. And I was the first one on my side of the family and I felt intense FOMO. I cannot even describe to you the FOMO that I felt because everyone's going and doing and traveling. And I love all of those things. And I couldn't do that. I was nursing. I had to be home and you know, or we would go to the lake and everyone's going on jet skis. And I'm like, I'm going to go nurse now. And no one would come with me because everyone wanted to go play. And I'm like, all right, I'm going to sit back here and nurse for a minute. I'll catch you later. You know? So that's really, it was really hard for me feeling like I was alone. And like you said, Beth, like, I didn't feel like I could talk to anybody about it because I felt like this is a horrible thing to do. For me as a mom to feel this way, like God has blessed me with a child and I'm struggling with it. Like I can't talk to anybody about this. And so I have, I have close friends and my husband, like we've talked in process, but it's like taking me a while to kind of be able to even verbalize like how I have felt.

Beth: 36:42

Yeah. I think that's so important for moms to realize we're all going to struggle with being a mom in our own type way. Like I struggle because there's no more peace ever. Right? I mean, someone's always going to be disgruntled or upset, like always, right? Like to some degree and, um, or someone's whining or crying or, you know, there there's. And I kind of felt the same way, like trapped in the forever, not having a serene, you know, peaceful life.

Amanda: 37:15

Yeah.

Beth: 37:16

And that was hard for me to even share with other people. Like, how do I tell other people that I'm really struggling because I kind of basically can't get what I want or what I think I need and therefore. It would, it felt like to me, like I was saying, I don't like being a mom or I was afraid they would, they would think I don't like my kids or I'm a bad mom when I think if we can normalize conversation with our type understanding, then we can say, yeah, it's really hard to be a type nine and have a child come into your life and literally disrupt everything have chaos. And yet it's also beautiful, like having the both and, you know, but like for you guys too, to be able to say, man, I'm so grateful to be a mom. There are moments that are so beautiful and rich and I feel trapped and I feel isolated and I feel FOMO, you know, like there, it can be both and it doesn't have to be shame, it doesn't have to be guilt. It can be us naming and validating one another. Michelle, what about you? What was it like when you became a mom?

Michelle: 38:25

Um, I'm going to kind of, I guess, counter or balance out, um, I feel like when I became a mom, it almost unlocked a side of myself I think I had either suppressed or didn't know or, but it's I guess to backtrack a little bit, I wasn't sure I wanted to be a mom in my 20s. We got married, my husband was really ready to have kids, I was not. I thought I wanted this, you know, fabulous career. I wanted to work. I wanted, you know, those kinds of things. And so kids were kind of iffy. It seemed really scary. It seemed like a huge shift to what I was used to and the lifestyle we knew and, you know, just almost like an anchor. And, um, So I think one day I finally just looked up, saw my friends having kids, probably a little bit of FOMO in the other direction.

Amanda: 39:24

Right, right, right.

Michelle: 39:25

Um, and I just kind of decided, I was like, I don't know that I'm ready, but I think if we don't do this, I'm going to regret it down the road, whether that's when all my friends have 10 year olds or my friends are having grandkids and their kids are coming home for Christmas. Like someday I think I'll regret it. So we had kids and it is absolutely no doubt what God put me on this earth to do. I love being a mom more than anything. I try not to get emotional. Um, you know, if circumstances were different, I think being a stay at home mom would be something I would be very interested in. Um, You know, I, I like what I do. I love the people I work with, but it doesn't compare to being a mom to me. So, um, it was definitely a transition, but it just opened up a different side of me that in a way I kind of feel like I'd forgotten about kind of that childlike side. Um, you know, I've always been kind of a bubbly personality, but it just opened up ways of thinking about life that I. I'd kind of forgotten about or never knew about. Um, it makes me look at society differently. It makes me look at just the structure, I guess, of our communities differently. Um, you know, and I, I know kind of these days it's like you should, you should, you know, grow up and go to school and get a career and, and be a mom. Um, and I feel like we kind of have lost. Sometimes this sense of how valuable motherhood can be and it, you know, maybe it's not meant for everybody, but those that it's meant for and those that want it. I, like, I don't think we should diminish it, and from somebody who wasn't even sure that that's what she wanted,

Amanda: 41:27

yeah,

Michelle: 41:28

it, it really, those things, those conversations, those really strike a chord with me, and yeah, I absolutely now love being a mom. There were definitely some hurdles in those early weeks and months, um, You know, I think I got to a point at one point that might have been some level of a little bit of postpartum anxiety and not around my baby. I, for the most part, thought my baby was fine. I thought my husband was going to look up at how, look up at how hard being a new parent was and Decide that that's not what he signed up for. He never did a thing to Indicate that that was definitely something I brought on myself Um, but I think just that those hard Weeks and early days of being a mom like those were loud especially for a seven where you're looking for this Joy and this excitement and all of a sudden you have this very hard routine with no sleep

Amanda: 42:31

yeah, yeah.

Michelle: 42:32

Just those early mom days.

Beth: 42:35

Yeah, it is. It's really hard, you know, um, but I love it. It's so interesting how God does things, um, so different than we expect. So I was more like Amanda thinking, I can't wait to be a mom. This is going to be amazing. And it was super hard and challenging for me. Um, But I find it interesting though, Michelle, like here, you were not sure if you wanted to give up. I think that totally goes the opposite direction of the surprise. So, you know, he's just, yeah, he's just always keeping us on our toes and, you know, ready for new surprises. Um, okay. So as we wrap it up, I would love for you guys to talk to the moms out there that Either just realizing maybe there are seven because they're listening to you and going, Oh my goodness, they're like speaking my language. Um, but they really don't know the Enneagram very well, or people that know the Enneagram well, but they're type seven moms. What would you say to them from what you've learned from being a type seven mom and using the Enneagram that you wish someone would have told you earlier on, like, Oh, someone could have just said these things that would have made all the difference in the world. Uh, so who wants to start

Amanda: 43:50

I need to think about that.

Beth: 43:51

Okay,

Amanda: 43:52

want to give it. I want to give a good answer. I want to give a good answer.

Michelle: 43:59

I guess I'll start and kind of think, think out loud. Um, I think just. You know, I, I, I think there's some level of acceptance as far as, like, wanting to be happy and enjoy things, but, um, I think there's also a lot of people that, you know, want to give you a reality check almost more often than not nowadays. Um, And I just, I feel like it's okay to be joyful in whatever scenario you're in, even if it is hard. Um, you know, finding those silver linings as a seven is fairly easy, but like, I think it is really important. I think that's our role in the grand scheme of things. I think that's, you know, where we play our part in our families, is to Be uplifting and, you know, remind them of the good and the joyful. So, yeah, I think

Beth: 45:00

Well, I think, you know, that's so, that's so true and accurate. And I think what sevens bring to everyone, including themselves is when they're healthy, it's not just, okay. So unhealthy is, I'm not going to talk about sadness. I'm not going to talk about grief. I'm not going to talk about the hard things in life. We're just going to think positive that isn't helpful. But. The sevens that can acknowledge the reality at hand and savor the moment of what is a blessing, what is good, what is joyful or, um, uh, what we can be grateful for. That is all. Really rich because there's, there's a difference between being joyful and happy and God wants us to be joyful. And you guys bring that to the table all the time. And so being a person that can be fully present in all of the emotions, but also help people get into the realm of joyful or gratitude or appreciation is such a gift. So I a hundred percent agree with that. So that's awesome. Uh, Amanda, what about you? Did you get to think of something?

Amanda: 46:12

I'm thinking I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna verbally process as well. I think for me something that um, I think I heard on, I think it was a, um, NEA Summer with NEF Down, so podcasts. Um, another seven was talking about like sevens have this bucket and there's a lot of holes in them. And we're trying to fill up the bucket with like all these different things. And I'm realizing this last, um, this last year, the Lord's really had me working on a lot of internal things and watching him be the only source that's going to fill me. It's not going to be sleeping in. It's not going to be having a perfect day where nothing goes wrong. It's, it's only him. And consecrating, like what I thought being a mom was going to look like to Jesus, consecrating what I thought, you know, our day was going to look like, or our year or what our current situation will look like, consecrating all of that and giving it to Jesus. I think making him be just letting him lead me as a mom. I think that is like the most important thing that I feel like I've had women around me say, but just to share with other seven moms is like, we don't have to figure all this out on our own. You know, we have a savior who can guide us and direct us and, and. Teach us how to parent, teach us how to parent in our weaknesses and within our strengths. And so I think like, I want to raise a little boy who's madly in love with Jesus, like that's my desire, you know? And like hearing him sing worship songs is like the greatest joy I could ever experience, you

Michelle: 47:37

Yes.

Amanda: 47:38

want, I, I want other seven moms to know that like, one, you don't have to do this on your own. You're not a failure. If you're having a bad day, like my husband tells me all the time, like It's okay that you had a bad day. Like, I want you to have a bad day. I'm actually happy you had a bad day

Beth: 47:53

You're normal.

Amanda: 47:54

it. You're

Michelle: 47:54

Yeah.

Amanda: 47:55

and you conquered it. Like you had a bad day, but then you actually overcame that bad day. And so, um, you know, and I want Josiah to see me struggle with a good day and a bad day. And I want him to see like my one screams. Cause it's like, I want to be perfect. I want to sound perfect on this podcast. You know, like I want, I want everything to sound flawless and seamless, but I. Jesus is the, is the main source of like all of our parenting wisdom is he is the one that's guiding and directing every single day that we have with our son. And so, you know, there's days where the Lord's like, I want you to go here. I don't want you to do this. Like we've, we've really been trying to listen to him a lot more intentionally than we ever have over the last year. And just the world's going crazy. And so like, really, we really need a firm foundation. So, so watching Jesus be the only thing that's filling those holes really is helping me parent the best that I can, because now I'm not looking for like FOMO so hard, but it's not as hard because I'm not looking at other situations. Scenarios and people and circumstances to fill me up. It's or even like force is forcing, but you know, like, even like expecting my husband to fill up those holes. Cause he can't do that either. And so Beth, you do, I'm going to, I'm going to give a little shout out to your marriage. Um, what was it? It's your, you have this, like you just put in like your number. So type seven, type five.

Beth: 49:14

Yes. But I mean, at becoming us. com there's a free assessment. Mm

Amanda: 49:18

I, it is changed. Us like being able to verbalize because me and him Matthew and I both just like, you know, we're like how how do we never put these two together like our childhood like my childhood his childhood and how we've like worked together like I Just being able to kind of verbalize You know, just our, our past and what we've gone through, but then also to bring that into parenting and like into our marriages, like really, really helped us. So I'm just going to say, if you guys haven't done Becoming Us, you really should, because it's great. Um,

Beth: 49:50

Yeah, I will, I will toot my own horn horn if there are six pages on any of the 45, uh, couple combinations. So you just put in your two types and then you get a free six PDF on, you know, like you said, side by side, like, so you can really see in dialogue with one another strengths and weaknesses and stuff. So, yeah, so becoming us. com that's where that's at. Um, but yeah, I love how you're just kind of saying. We can't get our fulfillment with things on earth. Whether it's being the greatest parents or, uh, having the greatest marriage, like all of those things are wonderful, but you're still going to feel the need for something more. And that is Jesus Christ himself. So I love, I love that. Um, well guys, it is a delight to hear from you guys and the journey that God has you on as type seven moms. And I know that everyone else has really enjoyed it as well. So thanks for just being here. Being here, being vulnerable. I know like you guys both said, I don't want to cry, but it's good. Good for us to cry. It's good for us to show more emotions. Um, obviously your little guys mean so much to you and that's just a beautiful thing. So anyway, thanks for sharing with us. Oh man, so fun hearing from two It's so interesting, The similarities might get stuck or where really having life, but also some of the of the things that can really trip them sevens. Again. I really want want you guys go new the Enneagram for moms at for moms. com, because I am am to help you what it's when For you as a as a mom be at best, your self, but also use the Enneagram an alert system. you start to off course, when you're going mode, want to become alert, not so that you'll shame yourself, so that you yourself. No, it's the opposite. We want recognize struggling to get the help first and from himself. And others, even this book. So. We hope hope will us in new journey with as we grow grow in knowing personalities in the in the way God them be. get book, for for Moms at enneagramformoms. com. Um, and I hope you enjoyed series. one more left and that's next week. We listen some type eights. It is a fabulous interview I've already done I had I had so much So can't can't you guys join me But as always remember the Enneagram reveals your your need for Jesus, not your need to harder because it's the gospel that transforms