Beth: 0:00

Hey everyone. Welcome to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I'm Beth McChord, your Enneagram coach. And today is going to be a really fun day because this is the last in our series of listening to all nine type moms and what the journey of motherhood is like for them. So today is type eight and I really had so much fun. With our two guests, because one I've known for a really long time. And the other is one of our coaches. And I really feel that so often type eights are misunderstood. And I want people to see the heart of an eight. A lot of times they're putting up a really strong exterior because they are concerned or afraid that someone might blindside them, betray them, harm them, control them. or their family. And so they are ready at any moment to be strong, to be assertive, and to make sure that everyone is okay. What you're going to hear today is some really key information on why eights do what they do as moms and their growth path. So today was a really fun conversation, listening to these two dear friends of mine. I know that you are going to really enjoy it as well, but I also highly recommend that you get my new book. The Enneagram for Moms. And in the back half of the book, I explain motherhood and the journey of growth for each of the nine types. And that's going to be helpful no matter what type you are. So you can go back there, see your strings, your liabilities, but also how to understand it and actually use For growth, because when we are self regulated as moms and we can show up or parents and we can show up with a non anxious connected presence, we can do so much incredible good, no matter what Enneagram type our kiddos are. So join me with my new book coming out July 9th by getting it at any gram for moms. com. Plus when you pre order, you can get lots of really cool bonuses at the same website, any gram for moms. com. Okay. Without a further ado, let me introduce you to my two friends, the type eight moms. Are, two type eights that have been growing, you know, their children or are in the process. So can you guys introduce yourselves, uh, Amanda, let's start with you.

Amanda: 2:33

Okay, yeah, my name is Amanda, obviously I'm an Enneagram 8, I have a very strong 9 wing, um, I am married to Greg for almost 30 years, this August will be 30 years for us, he is a type 3, so um, as was referenced in your type 3 mom podcast, the very first one. powerhouse couple of getting things done. Um, there's a joke when I was pregnant, nine months pregnant with our daughter. Um, we were putting her crib together with friends and the joke was achieve, achieve. You must achieve issues. You're like, in utero then and it's been the joke forever. So that's our parenting style pretty much, but yeah, almost 30 years, one daughter who's in medical school now. And, um, we live in Auburn, Alabama, just moved here this past year from Texas, where we've lived for pretty much those 30 years.

Beth: 3:26

Hmm.

Amanda: 3:27

Auburn's my alumni and that's where Samantha is in medical school. So we're here at her invitation, which was very nice. She's all one and only. And she asked us to join her while she was here. So we did gladly. Um, so yeah, and she's the one that introduced me to the Enneagram. So for the majority of her growing up, she was a sophomore in college when she sent me a podcast. with an invitation to understand her better. And that was the asleep at last song series. So it was what got me started and I was hooked because I saw it from the beginning of how correct it was. Um, so yeah, she was the one that introduced me to it and jumped all in and eventually became a coach with. You at YEC, a certified Enneagram coach, and my coaching company is called Seasons Coaching because um, I like to coach young adults who are in that season, especially of their life, but anyone that's in the early part of a seasonal change, if you can begin to understand yourself and others better, I think it really sets you up well. So that's my story.

Beth: 4:35

really good question. Yeah, that's a really great way of, of naming it seasons coaching. I love that. That's great. Uh, Lindsay, what about you?

Lindsey: 4:46

so Lindsay Castleman, I am a licensed in marriage and family therapist and I've been in Nashville actually all my life. So I am a unicorn. That's

Beth: 4:56

was going to say you're one of the unicorns here.

Lindsey: 4:58

Totally. Totally. Excuse me. So I've been married to my husband, Kevin, for 20 years, and we dated seven before that. So we've been together for quite a long time. And Kevin is an Enneagram six, um, which he actually, it was the Enneagram that he said, Oh my gosh, this gives me language to how I'm feeling on the inside. And so that was a really big, big moment for him, um, in that way. And it big for both of us, honestly, because, you know, I sat back thinking like, what's wrong with you, man? Like you just won't make a decision and go for it, you know? And so then it goes, Oh, okay. Okay. This makes sense. So, uh, we both have a nine year old boy named Wesley. And so he is our only, and so we're in the. The elementary school stages of parenting right now, which is a blast and also challenging. So that's kind of every season going back to seasons, every season, we've got some beauty in it and we've got challenges in it as well. Um, currently I run the counseling center at fellowship here in Brentwood, Tennessee, have some awesome counselors that work with me. And then also, um, I run, um, a marriage intensive and then a training area for therapists. And that's with a company called In Relationship that we do. And so we do marriage intensives and then help therapists learn how to really sit with people, um, especially through the lens of faith and attachment. So that's really important to me. And that's too why I was so drawn to Beth and Jeff and everybody at your Enneagram coach, because I was really looking for just that attachment to God and how does that relate? And so, you know, as everybody knows, they do a wonderful job of, thing about that and incorporating faith into all the components of the Enneagram. Yeah.

Beth: 7:12

was our events director for a season back when we were doing the coming us book live events that was before COVID shut it all down, but we had so much fun. We were going from town to town to town and we were having blast in the hotels and all the fun things.

Lindsey: 7:29

I know our after parties. Yeah.

Beth: 7:31

you ran a really awesome tight ship. I so appreciate it. I, I knew I could just kind of come in and you would. Just say, okay, this is where you need to be. And this is what you need to do. And I loved it. It was awesome.

Lindsey: 7:43

Yeah. We had so much fun. It was a great season of life. I loved it.

Beth: 7:47

it really, it really was. Maybe we'll get back there someday now that COVID is hopefully behind us. Um, okay, well let's dive in to being type eight moms. Um, first I want to talk about now that you understand the Enneagram really well. And you guys are really good at knowing your strengths, but now that, you know, the Enneagram well, and you know, how other people contend, unfortunately to misunderstand eights, right? A lot of times they think they're too abrasive or too blunt or to this or to that, but it's also some of your greatest strengths. So I'd love for you personally to describe what your strengths are, but also kind of maybe even give little stories or examples, um, to help people to really kind of. See more clearly why those are strings for you, you know, just to really connect the dots, I would say. So who wants to go first?

Amanda: 8:49

And do you want

Lindsey: 8:51

Sure. I can say for me and I'm fortunate because I mean, Wesley was itty bitty when I discovered the enneagram. Um, so I'm really, really thankful for that. And even before Um, like before Wesley was born, we read some great books, even just on attachment. And so being able to see parenting just through that lens, um, has been great. And also to bring in the curiosity of just like, man, everybody, like God gave everybody So many different strengths, so many different, um, you know, abilities, different giftings. And I'm like, Ooh, like I want to help unlock and see like, what's Wesley's gift. Like, what is that? And knowing it won't be mine. And that's okay. You know, there's all different parts of the body of Christ, but like who did God create him to be and making sure and trying to protect against that. It's not me putting what I think it should be on him. But then for me, uh, I am fiercely protective of his little heart. And so that sometimes can come to a detriment where, I mean, I remember one time when he was like in kindergarten and he came off the bus and he said, like, some kid made fun of him. And I was like, that kid, I'm just going to kick his high, you know, like, but I was out loud. And then he like, looked at I said stuff. I mean, this is horrible, but I was like, I'm going to go after that kid, you know, like it was, my inner thought came out and he looked at me and I was going, Oh no, I should not have said that out loud. Cause he's like, Oh, like you'd go beat him up, you know? And I'm like, no, you know, like, wait, wait. Uh, and I was like, no, you know, mommy was trying to be protective of you. I don't like it when people pick on you. You know, but like I got to do it in a more constructive way. So having to also monitor some of those just things that want to fly out on an impulse, but they're protective. Um, but some of that even comes down to, and Kevin would tell you this, my husband would tell you this, that there are times where because Wesley's heart, I try to attune to it. I try to have empathy for it, to know what could he be feeling in the moment. Um, And so there have been times where like Kevin's six, you know, fears start to go, and I can tell that that is coming on to Wesley. So I'll even kind of step in and be like, hey, let's, we'll come talk about that over here. If, if that makes sense, like just move in to go, hey, he's. He's little, like he doesn't need to worry about these things or he needs to just go be free and play and not be bogged down by that. So that's what I would say for me is really big is like, I'm fiercely protective of his heart and making sure that he's not having to carry things that is not his to carry, you know, that he's not, um, feeling like he's alone. You know, and that I'm going to be that safer one that will protect him kind of no matter what, you know, um,

Beth: 12:24

that makes sense. And I want to, but Amanda, before you jump in, I love to share this one story. So, so on the YEC team, we, you know, have like yearly strategy meetings. Um, and this was what Lindsey, when you were gonna jump on board and lead us with the events, or I think it was, it might've been one of the other things that we were doing. Um, but I remember us talking about actually, this may have been, I think this was when we were putting together the material for becoming us anyway, it doesn't really matter what it was, you were there and we're talking about parenting for some reason. And Danielle Smith, who's one of our closest, dearest friends and has worked for YEC in the past too, she was like, yeah, you know, when Jimmy and I, and Jimmy and her, we were Um, are both nines and married when we're putting our kids to bed, you know, we, we pray for them and we're praying that they're empathetic and kind and gentle and, and I'm sitting there going, yeah, uh huh. Everybody else, you know, that's what I'm thinking. And I remember you chimed in right away, Lindsay, you're like, really?

Lindsey: 13:32

I like that. Yeah, yeah.

Beth: 13:36

that he's a warrior and that his no be no. And, and I just like, like stood back with my jaw open, like fascinating, like That's so interesting. Like that's someone's prayer and not in a judge. I'm not saying that from a judgmental standpoint, I was saying it in true, like being an awe, like, wow, we are so different as parents. Like our perspectives are different and how beautiful that is. Because I think a lot of times as moms think, why am I their parent? Like I messed up or I'm not. The right personality, whatever. And it's like, no, God made you your personality to be your kids, mom, no matter what personality they are. And I felt that more in that moment than anything like, wow, God gave you Wesley because he wanted a mom that was fiercely protected and protective. And just the way you pray over him, I thought was so cool and unique. Do you remember that? That incident?

Lindsey: 14:37

Totally. Yes. Yes. It was so funny because I remember looking around being like, you pray for him to be kind, you know, kind of the same thing where I'm like, Oh, like we need to get them out there and be like forces in the world. And, you know, those kind of things, but it was a good follow up just so that, you know, my prayers have been answered. His, Nose our nose, you know, so now I'm like other side of that one. Oh, I'm like, okay, like now I'm like, okay, so maybe we need to now add some kindness. Oh

Beth: 15:13

Oh, that's funny. But I think that's, you know, so for everyone that's listening, just kind of think through like what, how do you pray over your kids and one, how beautiful is that? You know, that you have that perspective, but also what might the other eight types pray for? And how can we also incorporate those incredible prayers too? You know, cause I've since then Lindsay have thought, yeah, I do want Libby and Nate to, when they need to say no, no. Um, and Do it with kindness, do it with compassion. So there's that mixture, but to, to realize there's more than just what I'm praying for or like how my mind works. And so anyway, that was really a fun, fun eyeopening experience for me. Okay. So Amanda, love to hear your perspective of the strengths of a type eight mom. Okay. Okay.

Amanda: 16:31

a sophomore in college. So I didn't have that lens or that, um, those thought processes when we were raising her. It's intriguing to look back and see that and kind of see the certain trends. We certainly raised her in a faith based house. And wanted her to know and love Jesus and be a follower. So we had that framework for sure, which certainly aligns with a lot of health in the Enneagram. Um, so I think she definitely, I wanted her to know what a capable woman was. That was certainly one of the intentions of how I wanted to raise her and Greg as well, my husband, he, you know, chose me to pursue because I was a strong woman and that's what he wanted. So he very much wanted that for his daughter. Um, so, uh, I believe I modeled that well, the energy, the intensity of an aid, you know, putting that into action for projects with school projects with church leading ministries. Um, when I stopped working and stayed at home, was always busy, either doing Um, contract work or volunteer work. So I think she definitely saw someone who was using their strengths for the good, which is very important to me. Um, so I wanted her a very protective, understand that completely as an a protective of her protective, um, you know, in her school life and with friends, but definitely not a helicopter parent and most moms wouldn't be for sure wanted to teach her to advocate for herself. to be able to stand up for herself. She is a type two. And so she often, you know, now that we're have this language and understand each other better, she'll, you know, not assert herself as much in difference to others. But she has said that she can hear my voice in her head and that's a good thing evidently. It's not like a bad thing. Um, and that she has, she knows that she can picture when I'm modeled being assertive and standing up for myself and she can use that modeling when she needs to. And that really made my heart happy about that. There, there are some drawbacks to that. I know because she was leading. A mission trip over to Mongolia. So they flew through China and it's in college. And she calls me and she said, we missed our flight. And we talked later. I mean, we didn't talk about this deep in the moment, but she expected me to step in and kind of handle it. Cause that's. And I was like, um, well, yeah, well, you'll figure it out. I mean, I'm sure you're going to get back home, you know, go. I mean, we traveled a lot. We, and we had her lead us to the gate so she could find her way through international airports, all of that prepping for evidently this. She was stunned and she said she was so mad at me because I didn't step in to help her She's overseas, you know, and I was like, yeah, I'm sure you'll be fine. This can be posted and of course she made it back I'm she handled it great, but that was not what she expected And that was definitely made an impression for her.

Beth: 19:55

Yeah.

Amanda: 19:55

and I, I think, go ahead.

Beth: 19:58

going to say, what's so fun about that is, you know, type twos, they, you know, want to help everyone else, but they also secretly want someone to kind of like come in and save the day for them to, to lift that burden. But I love how you were confident in her. Like I've, I've set you up, you know, I've guided you, you know, you've got this, keep me posted. And I mean, obviously any. Young college students going to want their moms to. Fix the situation and you do such a good job of

Amanda: 20:28

speak into it.

Beth: 20:30

Yeah. But I love that you gave her that space to figure it out on her own to build that confidence and assurance that, you know, especially as a two that she can care for herself. So I

Amanda: 20:41

Mm hmm.

Beth: 20:42

that's a really beautiful story. Anyway, you were going to say something else.

Amanda: 20:46

I was gonna say, um, you know, I know you've used the, um, imagery of, uh, snowplow for an eight. And I think that's really good because it's a good imagery if you start to go off track and nick the people around you or nick the cars around you when you're not in health. Um, definitely was more of a bulldozer before I became more self aware through the Enneagram. And probably people would describe that for that pre Enneagram raising a child phase, uh, more of a bulldozer. In fact, when we were dating, Greg ever so often would make this blub, blub, blub, blub sound. And he, for the longest, he wouldn't tell me what it was. And it made me mad. And finally I was like, what is that? And he's like, it's a bulldozer. So that was like 1993 years before knowing the Enneagram. So when that came up in the Enneagram language, I was like, Oh, he nailed it. But anyway, healthy is more of a snow plow, but yeah.

Beth: 21:49

that's what you did for us with the tours. Like you literally plowed a path for us, you know, to get from place to place, to talk with all the people, get all the things set up, you know, there, there just wasn't. Any issues though. I really, I do remember that one time, remember when the caters like, didn't have the order or whatever, but you guys totally figured it out.

Lindsey: 22:11

we were freaking out. Yeah. Yeah.

Beth: 22:14

but you figured it out and it showed up and it was fine and it was great. And,

Lindsey: 22:18

Oh, I know. We were like, I think it was, we were like Libby, you gotta like discreetly tell your parents. You know, like discreetly tell Beth and Jeff don't, don't, but if you can like prolong the VIP discussion, that'd be great. Cause we gotta, we gotta get some food in here, you know, but that was beauty is like, man, the team too. I think the team with that is just Everybody working together, like the VIP people never even knew, you know,

Beth: 22:49

They didn't

Lindsey: 22:50

knew that we had food like a great spread of food that was showing up. And then, I mean, it still was a great spread of food. It just was last minute and took a lot of people. Yeah, very

Beth: 23:02

Yeah. Which was, I mean, I just, I love, and, and when actually Libby did tell me, I just knew I was like, yeah, Lindsay's got it. Like she'll figure it out. Like, I don't know what's what's going to happen, but. They'll be okay. And I think that's, that's the, a testimony to a healthy eight that you know, is plowing a path for you. Um, and I think that's what kids experience also with healthy moms that are eights, but we're obviously talking about any group of moms in the book, like you said, Amanda type eights, though, they're amazing when they're plowing a path for us, can Nick people on the side of the roads, or sometimes

Amanda: 23:42

it's been known to happen.

Beth: 23:45

So like all of us moms, we have our strengths and our weaknesses. Mine, my weaknesses would be more on the side of disengaging people, pleasing, trying to accommodate to the nth degree, all that stuff. So for you all, let's talk about some of the ways that it can get to be less of a burden. You know, average, you know, you're, you have really good intentions, but it's starting to kind of hurt people. And then what's it like when it's really not helpful, you know, and you're really kind of hurting people, whether you've noticed it or not. So, uh, Lindsay, why don't

Lindsey: 24:18

Sure. I, the first thing that just popped up, Beth, honestly, is, you know, Like I can get easily frustrated with other parents or moms that I feel like don't have the same capacity because I can sit back and look and go, why am I doing all of this? Like why, why is it me doing all of this? Or I can get really frustrated with other moms that I don't feel like are also protecting their kids hearts. They're, they're more self-protective. Um, so that's where like these feelings of judgment can come in and things like that, that can be, and, and some of the judgment though, honestly is not, it's not wrong, you know what I'm saying? Like the, there's truth to it. But I can feel what can start to happen is I can create this like wall between me and the other person where I just like, in my mind I go, Nope. Like uh, we're too different. I can't, it's really going back to Beth, the word you used before trust. Like I can't trust you. And if I can't trust you, uh, that foundation's just not there for me. And then I'm like, I don't, this is sounding so callous, but I'm like, I then don't really have time to want, like, I don't want to develop that relationship one, because I mean, I'm thankful, but. There's just a lot of things that can take up my time. Like I usually have a lot of things on my plate at one time because I can't handle it, but I can sit back at times and go like, where, where is everybody? Like, why am I left holding all of this? So that can be really tough for me in my relationship. With other moms as well, but I also have to watch it in the sense of assuming how much capacity my son has. And I have to remember his capacity at each age and stage is going to be different. It's going to grow over time. Um, and like keep mindful of that as well.

Beth: 26:32

That's really, really good. Cause, um, there's another type eight mom in Nashville that I've coached and man, her and her husband were awesome. They were really learning about the Enneagram about themselves and they were about to take a trip overseas with her two kids and they had just recently realized that their son who was. Early teenage years, uh, was a type five and it was just this big aha moment of. And I think her husband, I can't remember, but he may have been like a three ish, you know, somewhere kind of in like, let's get things done, you know, so they're going over to Europe and it's not like, Hey, let's just, you know, go read and like spend time, you know, chilling. It's like, they've got like fun agenda things happening. So anyway, we talked about it and she, you know, we, we kind of helped navigate. Okay. What does her son need? You know, he is not in the need. To be with the family all of that time. That's going to wear him out, going to spend him. It's going to spend them out. Anyway, they, they went and I just was so tickled when she came back. She said, Beth, it was amazing. We asked him what he needed, how much time he needed, you know, to recharge, to, to read. But we also told him way ahead of time, like, Hey, but we are going to go to this dinner at this time. You know, let us know if you need something beforehand. And like, they just said it was the best vacation they've had as a family. And I was just like, cheering them on. I was like, good job because you're right. Like, A type eight has so much energy and capacity. I mean, more than anyone on the Enneagram. I mean, I know threes and sevens might try to compete for it. Um, but I really do think you guys have so much, uh, capacity and that can be really irritating and frustrating for type eights, especially with kids. Like, you know, what if you had a type nine child? That's like, like me lollygagging through,

Lindsey: 28:32

Yeah.

Beth: 28:33

let's go. You know, and I'm like, no, I don't want to keep going. Like, can't we just chill and relax? Um, and so have you guys experienced that as well? Amanda, like with a type two, I mean, they're, they're okay. They can be pretty much go getters too. Um, did

Amanda: 28:51

she definitely has a good three wing. Sorry, go ahead.

Beth: 28:55

Well, I was gonna say, did, did she keep up with you all? And now you're recognizing she was keeping up with you all or did she, or is that just her natural cadence even now? Or, uh, Did she, she reflect back to you guys like, Hey, uh, little too much energy, Let's slow it down.

Amanda: 29:14

She did not reflect that she kept up and did a fabulous job and the travel story is, is great for us as well as far as. noticing things as we became more aware of our types and, um, giving each other space because when she was younger and we traveled, yeah, it was pretty much expecting her just to keep up with a three and an eight, even though we didn't know that's what we were, but that is who we were. Um, and she accommodated us greatly and was great. She's an easy child. Um, And it's easy to, when you're not totally aware, just take that for granted. You know, I know there's hurt and pain that comes from that, um, from the child's point of view and totally have heart and empathy for that as I'm learning more about it. Um, but as she got older and I think of course for an eight control is huge. Uh, I'm a great trip planner, uh, especially when I've given them full reigns of, uh, the schedule. And, you know, it's. The great trips and, uh, but as I've gotten older and, you know, I've started leaning into more of the peace and quiet of my nine wing and wanting that more and wanting to go and go and go less, um, I'm letting myself do that more. So, um, it's been more relaxed travel and downtime and giving her time to do her thing, uh, especially now that she's older and she can go do her own thing. So, uh, I think control and trust were huge for me. Um, you know, Lindsay talked about the, where's everybody else and, uh, those frustrations with moms. For me, it was more not letting go of projects or things like that with, um, the volunteer work because I didn't trust anybody. And, um, that's hard. To live with that much control factor and parenting and, um, just life in general. So that's gotten better and the more self aware I think the phrase too much is, has always rung in my head. Uh, especially as I became more aware, um, the Enneagram came first and that led me into three years of therapy, um, with an EMDR therapist who was very much Enneagram. Focused and also a type eight female. So that was important to me because I knew she would understand me. Um, and so, yeah, that whole journey has been rewarding, I think, for our whole family. Um, so I think one of the, you know, it's like, well, yeah, I'm coming in late to the game here with the Enneagram and she was already in college, but it's never too late. I think is a voice I like to have and speak into. Um, so yeah, I also didn't play a whole lot with her because I was, I'm just not a playful person and now I understand more why. But Greg stepped into that. You know, we were a good team. Um, and so yeah, those are some of the, you know, less glamorous parts of the eight mom, uh, like that were probably a burden. And I think the high expectations that we probably as type eights put on ourselves and others are a pro and a con. It's a strength and a weakness as a mom. Um, so learning to tempt those back for myself and others has been a strength. And family as well, I think, has been a good growth point for that. Yeah.

Beth: 32:56

that intensity, that energy, that passion that flows through them can land on others as intimidating. too strong, abrasive, or maybe they're feeling like the aid is angry. Um, and a lot of times aids feel very misunderstood. Um, and then sometimes they're like, Nope, yep. That's how I felt. Yeah, it was angry. Um,

Amanda: 33:20

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Beth: 33:25

from, you know, what, you know, of yourself as a mom, how did that intensity show up for you and how did that. Do you know it landed on your child? Or if you don't know, how do you think it may have landed on your child? And then what would you recommend to other type eight moms that are, you know, either just learning about the Enneagram and they know that they have the passion gets into maybe anger, like Lindsay, you were saying, like that came out of your mouth and oops, like got to dial it back a little bit. So kind of just guide us through what that intensity can look like. And. Obviously, there's, we know that there's healthy ways, but there are less healthy ways on how to navigate that.

Lindsey: 34:07

Yeah, my, my sweet kiddo, he has ADHD and so you can kind of see how that dynamic can play out where I'm someone that's like, no, like we get this thing done. We stay on it until it's done. You know, like we, we have the capacity to do it, but learning the capacity that literally, I mean, we even went and had his. Brain scan for neurofeedback because that's the route we decided to go to help with the ADHD, but just even seeing his brain map and seeing really what he can and cannot do that has nothing to do with his choices, but everything to do with. Like he needs me to help him. And so that there were times where I could feel it welling up in me, especially around sitting with him with homework where that not, not focusing, not wanting to get it done. Um, wanting to just check off answers that weren't the right answers just to get it, have it done. And I like, there were times where I'd have to tag out, take a breath, Walk away, you know, especially when it's a day where I have sat with people all day long and then come home and then we're now doing this. Like I've had to realize when I'm out of my window of tolerance and take a step back, tag Kevin in, or just take a step back and like, say, Hey, we're going to break. We're going to move. We're going to come back. Um, but I, like there were times where I was completely out of my window of tolerance and I stayed there. And like, wouldn't make him just sit and be in it and be in it. No, we don't give up. We don't quit. We stay in it. And then sitting back going, what, what the crap was that? You know, like, where did that come from? Um, and, and so I'm huge on repair, like moving into repair, moving into name or Wesley, like, Hey, that was, that was mommy. You know, that wasn't you. Um, So I'm sorry, you know, and next time I'm going to get up and walk around or I'm going to whatever, because I want to always name for him. Cause if kids don't, if we don't give them a story, then they'll make up a story and they'll make up a story based on what they know about themselves. Um, and so we have to help them with that story. So that's where I'm always cognizant of going back to protect his little heart To kind of give him a different story, but to say, man, that was on me. And there have been times where I've been in it. And he goes, you're going to apologize for that later. And he's right. It was right. was like, yep. I am like, I'm out of my window. Like you're right. And, and I had to come back, you know, cause even in those moments, I'm like, I'm not apologizing, you know, like, and I'm the adult, you know? And so. Well, then I had to come back. Yep. I'm sorry, bud. You're right. Like I was, that was on me. Um, but I, but I try to do that. I mean, there were even, sometimes there's other adults that have come in and have said stuff to Wesley and Kevin and I are both, you know, really mindful about trying to name it. Like adults shouldn't say that, or that's not what, which is very different in our Southern culture, where it is a lot of times, like you, if they're, Older than you, you must respect, they must be right. And y'all, I remember the first time where I was like, this person don't feel right to me, you know, and that like that conflicting feeling inside of me that's going, but I'm supposed to respect them, but it doesn't feel like what they're doing or saying is right. And so I'm narrate that for Wesley, but it is hard when, you know, hitting my capacity up against his capacity. Um, that that can be a real big where I could, like, find myself getting flooded and have to take a step back. That intensity will show up, but it's not needed there, you know?

Beth: 38:25

Well, I remember talking to two type eight moms somewhat recently, and they had just met and they'd actually never talked to another type eight mom before. And one of them said how becoming a mom was really hard and shocking to them for reasons that they didn't hear other people really talk about. And it was because when the baby was born. It was the first time she realized that she had zero control, you know, like the baby's gonna do what the baby's gonna do. Like there, you know what I mean? Like you, you can try, but it, it, a lot of it is out of your control. And she felt so, um, confused by that. She felt, you know, out of control. She didn't know what to do, but she didn't also want to tell her anyone else. that vulnerability. And so she felt very alone and isolated in that space. And I'm curious, have, have you guys experienced, and then I definitely, um, Amanda, want you to piggyback on it to tell your answer to, um, to the other one, but is that something that you guys kind of have felt In motherhood, just that, and I'm sure at times, you know, there's, there's times we do feel like we're in really good control and then there's times that we don't. But when life feels that you can't fix or control it, is that a really hard place to be for, as a type eight mom? Mm

Amanda: 39:55

Yeah. And I, I think, I don't think I know one. One of the reasons we have one child is because of the level of stress and frustration that new motherhood was for me. And again, very fortunate that Greg stepped in on a lot. And when she was crying at night, he walked her around cause I was kind of at my end and, um, didn't have a lot of the tools then to, um, Get through that in a healthy way. You just powered through, um, and that's not the best way. And, you know, a second child didn't come easily. So we just decided this is good. And that's three is my favorite number. So we're a great little family, but that level of intensity and the feeling of a lot, and yeah, I'm sure not being in control, I didn't have those words then, um, really played into that. Yeah. And I can circle back for the other, but I know Lindsay should answer this one as well. Nope.

Lindsey: 41:00

a is a wee bit unique in the sense that Wesley is adopted, but we found out on a Tuesday That we were selected. And then we brought him home that Saturday. So within a span of less than a week, we found out we'd be parents. And then we were, and so I remember like the biggest difficulty that I had was such a vast switch, but also I was telling Kevin, I was like, Lord, have mercy, my schedule is not my own anymore at all. Like, I, I don't determine where I go when I go, like, I am like, We are on a clock here with feeding, sleeping. I mean, it just, I had to grieve the loss of this, like kind of, I don't know if independence is the right word, but just grieve this loss of control over what I could do when I could do it. Um, and I like felt like life seriously slowed down. I mean, you know, imagine where you're just like, Cranking along in career, all of these things. And all of a sudden you're like, Nope, like you have to go real slow and you're going to be super tired all the time. And like, you're not going to be productive. I thought I was going to be productive whenever he napped. Nope. I fell asleep.

Beth: 42:22

Yeah.

Lindsey: 42:23

It's like,

Beth: 42:24

Yeah.

Lindsey: 42:24

I, like I hit even a limit on capacity there, but that, that was a big thing. That I did have to grieve and move through and almost like re narrate, reframe for me, for myself, um, to be able to like, not look at it as, not to resent it in a way, you know? Yeah. So that was,

Amanda: 42:50

that. I'm sorry, mine came in a little later because it chose to stay home. Because of the overwhelm. And yes, you can do as an aid, you can do just about anything, but you shouldn't do just about anything and stay sane. And again, this was pre gynecogram, pre counseling, but it was just a lot with a daycare and two full time jobs. And we lived in Houston then with an hour commute each way, and it was just too much. So I stayed home and found other ways to work and be busy. But later. There was the thought like Lindsay is saying of a grieving almost of, wow, I have, I have so many things I could have done, you know, I could have been a lawyer I could have, I could have gone back to medical school I, I could have done these things. But we made good choices for that time. And I don't regret the choices, but Yeah, there is that you can't control that all and you can't have the capacity for that all so you have to make your choices And I think it's I love that you use the word greed because that is exactly what Greg and I talked about acknowledge it name it grieve it and Then focus on the positive because so many things went well

Beth: 44:09

Sure. Yeah. But, but yeah, we do need to recognize that other part too. Yeah.

Lindsey: 44:17

mhm,

Beth: 44:17

yeah. So Amanda, sorry I interjected that one, but go ahead and answer the other question.

Amanda: 44:23

Yeah, so I think the intensity part for me came through in a lack of, um, awareness of other people and just the, the getting things done without slowing down. Especially with Samantha, to give any thought to, um, how she might be feeling about something. Because I wasn't connected much on an emotional level back then. Um, it's very much action oriented. Um, she was struggling in math in third grade. And, um, we put her into Kumon. Because you just handle it. You find the solution, you know, both of us being a three and a night, we're both together on that. Like, okay, now she's in Kumon and we're sitting there doing the math sheets, you know, like almost like. drill sergeant over because and not really understanding what I was probably doing to her internally. Um, but she's good at math now. So she's in medical school. And yes, what I have done things a little differently, probably. Yeah. A little more. engaged, but that I think is how a lot of that intensity played out in raising her. I've also, because we are very honest with one another. And I actually experienced that recently on a trip. I was highly stressed. I thought we were running late. I was holding it in, but she and I were the only ones in the car. And I, once I figured out we were not going to be late, I could feel the energy in the car just shift, and I get just deflated, you know, heard that eight energy can be felt by others around them. And I was like, Did you just feel that she's like, Yes. And Hallelujah, because everything was so tense the atmosphere was tense in the car almost like you can cut it. And so being more aware of that impact on her, especially, and on Greg, and then on the others, uh, in my life is, is really good to know because I, I do think that is something that intensity level of innate is almost palpable when you're in a bad place. Um, I don't know if Lindsay's had that same, um, example or experience, but that was eye opening to me. And so let me circle back. I just want to finish that thought of I knew because I've done a lot of work, personal work, I was able to go inside and figure out what's going on. Why am I feeling this way? How can I diffuse it? So I don't stay in this place because I don't like it either. Uh, I don't want to be here. So doing the work to understand the why's behind the behavior has really paid off a lot. I think that's what I would encourage other moms to do.

Beth: 47:19

Yeah. And that's actually what I was going to get to next as we wrap up, um, our time together is there's a lot of type eight moms out there that are listening and they might be new. They might not even know they're a type eight, but they're listening to this going, Oh my word, someone is totally speaking my life or they're well seasoned, whatever the case may be. They may be hearing for the first time stuff that they're experiencing and they're stuck. They don't know what to do. What would you say to whether it's a younger mom or just any mom that's a type eight in recognizing and validating probably what you felt. So kind of just naming out out loud, but also what would you recommend for them moving forward?

Lindsey: 48:08

Yeah, I love, like, I would echo what Amanda said in the importance of, like, doing our own work because going back to our capacity, a lot of times it's like, man, we can hold great capacity to get things done, but maybe not hold as great capacity for what's happening inside of us internally, or even knowing what's happening inside of us internally. But when we start to focus. our capacity on the internal, which is the heart. We've got the emotions. We've got our desires. I mean, when we start to expand that, then what the gift we get to offer our kiddos is that we can sit and hold their big emotion and it doesn't scare us. And we're not trying to shut it down. We're not trying to stop it. We can be in there with them just like Romans 1215 says, you know that rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who are weeping. We're able to just be with our kids and they can feel our presence and our attunement in there. And we're not fixing, we're not problem solving. We're just there with them and we're saying we can hold it like we're that safe, secure attachment that we can hold this. You know, my kiddo, he's free to feel a big range of emotions. And that's like when it, when it gets real big, which it does often, you know, it's great because it gets real because he's allowed to feel such a range of emotions. He can feel joy to the nth degree and he can feel anger to the nth degree, you know, because when we start to. Try to contain one. It starts to contain the other. And so being able to hold that capacity for him to go, I can hold your anger. Now I will help you be able to share it in a healthy way. You know, it's, it's not going to be disrespectful or rude or walk, you know, but I can hold your anger. I can help make sense of your anger and I can just be with you in your anger or you're left out or you're sad or you're misunderstood. Um, and that breeds so much trust, you know, between, between the two of us and between us as parents. And I think that's the difficulty that I've seen with a lot of parents is like the, um, Inability to be able to be with their kids emotions because of it, we won't, we didn't know how to be with our own. And so that's what I would say, take that, like, you know, fire ready aim, you know, and then go go into and let's go into that with somebody else and just, you know, Like to Amanda's point where she found the therapist, that's what we're supposed to do. Anyways, going, going and figuring out what's happening inside of us alone. We usually don't yield great results. Um, like we're designed for connection. Like that's what God created us for. And so to be able to do that with safe others is really important. And. I mean, I've been through a lot of therapists, so you have to find one that you feel like can hold you. If that makes sense, because there have been several where I'm like, man, I will chew you up and spit you out. Like you're not the one that can sit with me because I don't think you this. And I can tell pretty quickly if I pick up the nervousness in you of sitting with me, We, we don't need to have, have this conversation. So it's okay to find somebody that can hold you in that too.

Beth: 51:55

That's so good. Amanda, what about you?

Amanda: 51:58

Yeah. I totally agree. Um, with finding your people, um, again, h tend to have. I'm going to talk to you a little bit about, um, I know a lot of people have a small group of their people. And even within that small group, find someone you can talk to about. Maybe how you're feeling. I remember during therapy and working through this too much. I was sitting on the edge of a pool with a, a close long term friend, and I actually took the chance to open up. Um, which is hard. Um, and talk to her about this idea of too muchness. And her answers surprised me in a very positive way that that's not how, you know, it was very encouraging that that's not how I'm read in certain circles. And, you know, it was good to open up to her and some others. Um, so being willing to find those people and take a chance to open up and be vulnerable that way, uh, I think is important. Uh, again, tapping into the emotional side, very much what Lindsay said. I love the emotion wheel, uh, again, came through my therapist. And when I began to get down to the root of what that anger really is, what is that frustration rooted in? I began to understand myself better, um, and then could also relate to others. and share that information. I'm a huge fan of sharing resources. So I've sent that emotion wheel to so many people. Um, and for also for a type eight, especially I think the book, The Dance of Anger is huge. Um, I think it's the first book written about female anger. based on research. So it was helpful for a type nine friend of mine who wasn't as in touch as much with her anger. And then I read it and it was, it was a good resource as well. So I'm very much resource based and you know, find the tools that work for you, find your people that work for you. Therapy, of course, I think is fantastic. The Enneagram can also help keep you on a good track. I just love all that God is showing us on how we can become who he made us to be. He's giving us a peek into that.

Beth: 54:10

Yeah. Well guys, thanks so much. I, you know, I just really encourage type eight moms out there to, to really follow the lead of what you guys are saying, because you have so many incredible gifts as type eight moms that are incredibly beautiful. Um, You guys know what seats the kiddos should be sitting in, so to speak, like what they're good at. You just have this knack of knowing and, um, you're big, uh, at celebrating. Um, we could literally go on and on about how Lindsey literally had a zoo in her neighborhood for Wesley's birthday.

Lindsey: 54:49

Listen, I love me some parties. Yes.

Beth: 54:52

Yeah. And anyway, you just bring so much to your kiddos. And I think anyone else out there that either has type eight moms or Or is maybe married to a type eight that celebrating them and cheering them on is just so important. Um, because I think the world, um, usually says negative things. And I think when people really see the heart of an eight, eights are some of the most tender on the Enneagram. When you really see the heart of an eight, They are the greatest champions out there. So just like Lindsay, like you said, no, I'm going to pray that my son is a warrior, you know, and, and I think that's beautiful. So thank you guys so much for sharing your heart vulnerability with us today. And I know it's going to bless a lot of moms later. So thanks.

Lindsey: 55:42

Thanks

Amanda: 55:43

Thanks for the opportunity. Thanks

Beth: 55:45

I hope you guys enjoy that as much as I did listening to Amanda and Lindsey and their heart for their family and their kids, the internal work that they have done to really show up with the love and the care and the protection that they offer is really inspiring. Well, again, I highly recommend that you guys get my new book, Enneagram for Moms, because I'm going to lay out for you how you can know yourself better, become aware, attuned, but also to have that non anxious connected presence with your kids. So you can get the new book, Enneagram for Moms, At Enneagramformoms. com plus at that same website, there are lots of pre order bonuses that I really hope that you grab. Now next week, I'm going to talk with Ainsley Britton, and she has a new book coming out the same day as my book For Enneagram for teens, And these two books are going to be a great pair if you have teenagers. So get The teenage book for your, uh, teenagers, and then get my book so that you can understand yourself as you navigate and journey with your teenagers. So that's next week. I hope that you'll join us there. And remember the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder. It is the gospel that transforms us. I'll see you next week. Bye bye.