Adam: 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I'm Adam Breckenridge director of coaching here at your Enneagram coach. And I am joined today by my good friend, co founder of your Enneagram coach, the one and only McCord. Hey Jeff.

Jeff: 0:17

The one and only I think there actually is another jeff mccord out there, but he killed somebody in georgia Maybe so I I

Adam: 0:24

No, no, no, no, no.

Jeff: 0:25

with him

Adam: 0:26

He shot a man in to watch him die,

Jeff: 0:37

Oh, that's awesome, i'm sorry, I don't I don't live uh, that provocatively um, but uh, yeah, I am one of the two maybe three, I think there was maybe like a jeff mccord who was Um a leader in tennessee, maybe some kind of government official But there are a couple Jeff McCords out there. Are there any other Adam Breckin bridges that you come across?

Adam: 1:02

Not that I've ever come not that I've ever come across,

Jeff: 1:05

Yeah, I tried googling your name And see what happens

Adam: 1:09

be careful.

Jeff: 1:10

Yeah, well, you yeah clearly I've found. I mean i'm a politician and a murderer in another state. yikes I'm, just trying to be myself. It's enough

Adam: 1:23

that's all, that's all I'm trying to be these know, now, now that I'm officially in the second half of life, Jeff, I'm, I'm tired of being, uh, anybody but me. So trying to be me

Jeff: 1:36

I'm just trying to be me.

Adam: 1:37

full time job, not trying to be me on purpose.

Jeff: 1:41

Nice. Hey, well, everybody, we're glad that you're here. Um, and you are stuck with Adam and I, uh, Beth is going to be on sabbatical for the next couple of months. Um, and so we've been walking through a series on subtypes, but our, our hope. In this series of podcasts, as it always is here at your Enneagram coach is to help people see themselves with astonishing clarity so that they can break free from self condemnation, fear and shame by knowing and experiencing the unconditional love, freedom in Christ. So this is now our third episode in a series where we're addressing the instinctual, the Subtypes now, why is this even an important topic? Was there any practical relevance? Yeah There's tremendous practical relevance where hopefully you've listened to the previous two episodes, but you know just in summary Um, the instincts are actually what happens They're the precursor to our actual Enneagram types And so we have these initial instincts that happen and then our and the relational styles of our type come online. So it's very important to understanding why, how we think, feel, and behave in particular ways. And additionally, it helps explain the differences between, um, people of the same type. Often people think that we stereotype or put people in a box. Well as we say here at YEC, people are much more like a Sherwin Williams paint There's a Hundreds of varieties of different blues and reds and so it leads to more curiosity, um, more surprise rather than presumption or stereotyping. And then also when we start to learn about these subtypes and the instincts that drive them, we actually, it becomes an opportunity to learn about ourselves. and our relationships. Why do our spouses, why do our children, why do our closest relationships perceive the world in particular ways? And there are strengths that we gravitate towards, and then there are some that we're more blind This is an opportunity just to see the world from a different perspective and promoting the idea compassion towards one And so, Adam, why don't you give us just a brief description of, Instincts themselves.

Adam: 3:58

Yes, yes, three basic instincts, human instincts for survival, and, uh, we have all three. We use all three. One is typically more dominant, one sits somewhere in the middle, second, and then the third one is more repressed. But the first instinct is self preservation. This instinct helps us to take care of our own safety, and our health, and our well being, and make sure that we have all the to sustain life. The second instinct is social. The social instinct helps us to be aware of other people. For Uh, it's, it's more of a herd mentality. So whereas self preservation is I'm thinking about me, uh, social instinct is I'm thinking about the group and how my actions and attitudes affect the group. And, um, and then the third instinct is the one to one instinct or some call it the sexual instinct. And this instinct helps us to have an intense drive for intimacy. a constant awareness of the chemistry between ourselves and others, and those with the one to one instinct are energized and find their sense of survival or security, um, in deep one on one relationships. Now, you know, we've said this in the last couple episodes, but what, What forms your subtype is when your instinct meets your Enneagram type. Um, that gives you your subtype instinct plus Enneagram type equals subtypes. And, uh, each Enneagram type has three subtypes. So that means there are 27 total instinctual subtypes within the Enneagram. So a lot of different shades. Um, it, you know, as you said, Jeff, explains why, you know, they're, You know, two different, people of the same enneagram type can manifest so differently and subtypes plays a huge role in that. And so, you know, you and I have been taking these episodes to walk through all 27 subtypes. And, uh, in the last episode, we looked at the heart triad. And in this episode, we're talking about the head triad types, five, six, and seven. So, um, anything you want to add there, Jeff, before we jump into, uh, Our first, first up to the plate, which is type five.

Jeff: 6:18

Yeah, the one thing that we want to make sure we explain is that each of the triads has Are each of the types have a counter type? This is a type that is not stereotypical of the type and sort of responds as against the core motivation. So we'll talk a little bit about this, like with the type six. So rather than yielding to the, uh, the fear, um, the counter phobic six, um, is one who sort of moves towards the fear, but does so in a way that still has the same core motivations, um, but does so with a degree of with some energy or some passion, some angst behind it. So we're going to talk about a counter type for each of the types, which is an uncharacteristic of the type, but it's still shaped by the core motivations of that type. Uh, Adam, why don't you dive in and let's talk about type five.

Adam: 7:14

Yes. Let's talk about type five, the self-preservation. Five. My self preservation five friends, also known as the castle five. This might be the most, five of all fives.

Jeff: 7:29

That's awesome.

Adam: 7:31

they're, they're, uh, they're in internal walls or fences taller and the other fives they have. Uh. know, primary focus on personal space, independence, one of the ways they learn again, it's self preservation is thinking about me first. So their need to feel safe. Uh, you know, the core underlying emotional struggle for those in the head triad is Anxiety or fear, and there's a core common desire for security and safety. And so the way they're approaching this with, with this self preservation instinct is, um, to isolate, to, to, build a fortress. That's why we call them the castle five. Um, they're a little more private, more self sufficient, more withdrawn. We did an Enneagram podcast, Jeff, um, a while back about if there was a zombie apocalypse. It was just a fun episode. If you remember there, if there was a

Jeff: 8:31

Yeah, I do

Adam: 8:32

which Enneagram type would survive. And, um, we all agreed at the end of the episode that, uh, we pretty much all agreed that we think the self preservation five would be the ones.

Jeff: 8:43

They'd never come out of hiding.

Adam: 8:45

No, they have everything they need inside their, inside their bunker. They're self sufficient. They totally independent. Um, and so, my

Jeff: 8:55

the social subtypes would be a wreck, a wreck. You know, I was I was thinking about this. Uh, just maybe it was this morning. I had gone on my walk this morning and I saw a tick tock whenever I got home was drinking some water and cooling down and I saw a tick tock from the movie, uh, Martian. with Matt Damon. Is that right? But, uh, like when he got initial feedback from, um, when he finally connected back with earth, but all it was just through a robot or the rover. And I thought, oh man, that must've been so humane. They actually got feedback from another human, but it was just the camera.

Adam: 9:40

the camera.

Jeff: 9:41

shows you how social I am.

Adam: 9:44

Yeah.

Jeff: 9:45

the, uh, the self press five is like, Oh, finally get a planet to myself.

Adam: 9:51

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're

Jeff: 9:55

did you come

Adam: 9:56

they're, they're watching them. They're watching the movie. And they're like, where's the This feels like heaven on

Jeff: 10:07

Okay, now this is just a stereotype, like we're joking with your self pressed fives. Just joking around, it's uh, we talked about El Mocordo and the Jackal earlier a couple episodes ago, so sometimes we get going, but

Adam: 10:21

Well, and to, to that, to that point of this is, this is all, you know, we

Jeff: 10:24

That's another series of what we would do when stranded on

Adam: 10:32

Self press fives would, uh, would be like, yeah, this I can do this. And you know, it's not that they don't want relationship. That's so that's, we're, we're, we're relational It's not that they don't want relationship. They enjoy the company of people that they trust and they, they love to especially share their knowledge with others. Um, but they're going to need some extra time to build up their relational and time to recharge after being with people. And so they're just a little, a little more, uh, typically a little more introverted, a little more comfortable, um, with just with themselves. Um, but it's not that they don't love people. It's not that they don't want relationship. Um, their strengths are self that can be, you know, their self reliance is a strength. They're very practical. They're very resourceful. They're very knowledgeable. Challenges. is that they can become too isolated. You know, there's, there's, um, there's isolation is, is, uh, can be death to the soul and they can become too isolated. They can become too detached. And if they're not careful, um, they can hoard themselves. They can not give away themselves or their knowledge. And so that is, our self preservation five friends. Let's talk about the social five. Um, uh, the social five is, uh, is we call it, sometimes call it the totem five. It's the most extroverted five. Um, it's, uh, it's, it's probably a little more,

Jeff: 12:01

like an oxymoron, the extroverted

Adam: 12:04

yeah,

Jeff: 12:05

But, you know, when you see the description, you start to realize like, Oh yeah, I totally can see why, how this would work. There's still a fiveness, but they're using their fiveness to engage with people, not to avoid people. They want to be of

Adam: 12:22

That's right. That's right. And we don't call this the counter type. You'll, you'll understand why the one to one is the counter type in just a moment, but it does seem a bit counter to the five that to think about an extroverted five, but their focus is on, um, sharing their knowledge for the good of the they're going to show up relationally, they're showing up of society. And they, they're focused on intellectual pursuits, um, how to use their knowledge to contribute. to, to the whole of society. Um, they still have strong boundaries. Um, they might share their knowledge, values, and ideas, but, uh, but not their space, time, and resources are typically going to be a little more guarded with that. Um, they do, um, they do relate deeply, uh, but only to people who seem, uh, you know, to share the same ideals with them. So, you know, that's, that's kind of what they're looking for. Um, strength. Man, their knowledge is a huge strength and analytical skills. Very articulate. They make excellent teachers. Um, just a wealth of knowledge challenges is, you know, again, they can be overly detached. They can come across as condescending, you know, any gram 5 with a lot of knowledge. Um, has to be careful, you know, that can come across a bit condescending, even if they don't intend to, um, and they, they can struggle with social engagement, even though they are, their instinct is to be more social, um, that can cause some anxiety for them. So that's the social And then we round it out with the one to one five. This is your counter type. Um, this, we sometimes call this the confident five. Um, so fives are in that head triad. They tend to be, um, you know, if we're gonna, if we're gonna choose one side of the brain, they tend to lean more toward the left side of the brain. But the subtype, this, this, uh, one to one subtype, um, can often appear like a four, type four. And maybe even mistype is a type four because they're deep feelers. They're, they're more emotionally expressive. And this is why we call them the counter type. They have a, they have a strong romantic side to a creative emotional flair. Um, they are able to form deep connections with, with one or a few trusted again, this is one to one. So think about, is a, this is a survival instinct that is moving toward, uh, deep one on one relationships. And so they can form really deep connections, still maintaining their privacy and their independence, though, um, they desire to find an ideal partner who represents absolute love and trust, uh, but they, they want this relationship to be contained and private and, uh, their strengths are they have a great capacity for intimacy, loyal, perceptive, um, emotional IQ. But again, the challenge is, is they can be, they can be possessive. They can struggle with vulnerability. They can be overly secretive. Um, and so that is your counter type one to one subtype of a four. Uh, so Jeff, that's the type

Jeff: 15:31

hearing that.

Adam: 15:32

or type five, rather type

Jeff: 15:34

yeah, it's interesting to think of the countertype not so much in their engagement with people. I guess I'm thinking that it's more focused on the heart versus actually being a public And, and you can kind of see this stereotypically when you think of the different types of professors that are, are out there now. I mean, any type could be a professor type, but there are some intellectual giants that are much more. Civil in contribution like they they're much more open about their resource or their resources and their research versus like the counter type of the five is much more focused on emotion and being willing to feel the impact of these relationships. But you know, you can be a person, a public figure, but not necessarily engaged with your heart. You're just engaging with culture from the, from the heart. Point of the mind and intellectualizing things, but it's the counter type really it does go inward and Experiences some of

Adam: 16:41

Mm-Hmm. Yep. They allow themselves to go inward. Yeah.

Jeff: 16:44

Yeah now Adam tells a little bit about just the thinking triad in general We spent a little bit of time regarding The shame of the heart triad, you know, tell us about the fear of the

Adam: 17:01

Yeah. So your thinking triad or head triad, it's in that thinking center. going to be your types 5, 6, and 7, and, you know, triads are, are Enneagram, uh, groups of three, three types that are joined together by a common emotional struggle. And a common desire and the common emotional struggle for those in the head triad is going to be an emotional struggle with anxiety or some, some, some just use the word fear. Some Enneagram teachers will use the word anxiety and I think there's just some overlap and both, both of those are true. Um, and so there's, there's a, there's a common fear there and the common desire. That they, they're, they're all longing for is a sense of security and each of them have their own, you know, defense mechanisms or survival strategies to try to feel secure. Um, but the five, six, and seven are certainly joined by that. And it's going to join in those common struggles and common desires. And so, uh, it's going to show up in different ways. um, five fives, you stereotypically are going to, you know, have stronger boundaries and walls to try to deal with their anxiety and keep them secure. Um, you know, sixes are gonna, try to make sure they're prepared. Um, they've thought through everything and then sevens are going to, uh, just have more fun or sevens are going to deal with their anxiety security with another experience or, you know, or whatever. And so, uh, but that's, uh, that's your head triad.

Jeff: 18:33

Well, similar to how we talked about the heart triad related to their shame, uh, the anxiety or fear is the cave that this triad fears, and yet is the opportunity that they have. So for the type fives, you know, how are you relating to the anxiety and the fear? Are, Are you much more inclined towards your basic need? And so maybe you're the, uh, like we mentioned earlier, sort of the castle and more self preservation, more tied to isolation. Are you doing that through, uh, intimate relationships or your much more closer relationships? Are you doing that socially where you're trying to actually help people, engage with people to help them? Resource them for how to engage in but you can see that they're responding not so much out of their shame or fear of rejection But it's how they are engaging with the world but in reference to what? And there are other areas where a type 5 may be blind to so you may be much more socially oriented But less reflective on your own personal need for to make sure that you get, recover from all of your social engagement and find yourself burning out because you're working uh, or that you bring such an intensity, the confident, the counter type one to one five, where you're so focused on these primary relationships that you actually become more productive. Um, and you're less vulnerable with some of these other relationships where you're experiencing acceptance. Um, you're experiencing that there's tremendous value and dignity that you offer to others, but you're so focused on these primary relationships that you're missing the bigger Uh, so you see how each of these subtypes are relating to this core struggle of the thinking triad. Adam, is there anything else you wanted to say before I go on to type six?

Adam: 20:29

No, no, I'm, I'm ready for you to dive into type six. Both of us are sixes. So I'm, I'm just on the edge of my seat here. Uh,

Jeff: 20:35

Yeah, maybe we ought to make this a type six podcast. all these, this nine stuff that Beth was bringing. Like we could just take this over, bring some, we're going to bring sixy back is what we're going to

Adam: 20:48

That's right. And I'm sure all the nines would really appreciate us just forgetting. Uh, what, what all the nine, all the nine

Jeff: 20:55

They've wanted us to stop focusing on them. Like stop with talking about us. Golly. It's always about them.

Adam: 21:05

But both Jeff and I are married to nine. So these are jokes. These are called jokes. Um, this is when six is when six is get really comfortable. And, uh, and, and our, our, actually our nine starts to surface a little bit and we start to get a little, like we

Jeff: 21:21

I would

Adam: 21:22

too safe. Yeah.

Jeff: 21:23

under this table so many times by now. People probably have caught on like sometimes Beth giving me the look or now there's just an energy that I get that like she didn't have to say anything and I already know. I already

Adam: 21:36

Yeah. Same.

Jeff: 21:38

yeah,

Adam: 21:41

Same.

Jeff: 21:42

funny. Oh man. Okay. Well, uh, I don't know if there's any other sixes that we need to invite on the podcast, but I mean, we can make this a whole thing. I mean, what, I forgot, what was your joke about, uh, the mark of the best?

Adam: 21:58

so there were two, two other sixes that were, that were, uh, that, that were, you and I are both in relationship with, and the three of us used to joke about starting a podcast called, called six ticks.

Jeff: 22:11

You're, you're hesitant to say

Adam: 22:13

I'm very, very, very, very hesitant. Cause I, I want to make sure everybody interprets Six, six, six mark of the best was the joke. And for obvious reasons, that

Jeff: 22:29

Enneagram humor at its best right there. Oh, that is so funny. Oh man. Oh, that's so great. Yeah. I mean, it's a problem in our team meetings when all the, when we get going. Um, The rest of the team, all the ones and the nines are like, Hey, can we get back on schedule here in the agenda?

Adam: 22:52

And thank God we have, thank God we have those uh, on our team and, and, and that they don't shame us for our banter because sixes, sixes have

Jeff: 23:01

Really? Are you sure adam? Because I I feel the shame. I I feel it sometimes the Really? Are you guys gonna keep doing this?

Adam: 23:11

okay. Maybe there's a dose, maybe it's healthy shape. I don't know.

Jeff: 23:15

Oh

Adam: 23:15

maybe, maybe there's a dose of like, Hey, um, Adam and Jeff, can we, uh, grow up for a second and have a meeting? Um, but anyway, I appreciate the banter. I I'm here

Jeff: 23:27

I I like the banner. It's like there's comedic relief. I mean, we do these podcasts like a thriller, like there's an intense thriller movie that you're watching. And we are the comedians that provide some levity. Um, in, in all of this, all the drama. Uh, an intrigue like we lighten it up

Adam: 23:50

up a little bit. People

Jeff: 23:51

and then there are some sixes, uh, that are kind of like no I'm gonna need you counterphobic guys

Adam: 23:59

Yeah. And you're going to tell us about those sixes, uh, as you

Jeff: 24:02

That's right

Adam: 24:03

subtypes. Yeah. That's what's funny. That's what's funny. Even, even other sixes are looking at us and going, Hey guys, guys, can

Jeff: 24:12

You're not representing well

Adam: 24:13

yeah. Yeah. Please, please don't tell other people that cause this is not the vibe I'm going for.

Jeff: 24:23

So funny. Oh, okay. Well, let's talk about self pressed sixes. Um, these are the warm sixes. Um, these are the most phobic of all the sixes. Uh, I can remember early on, I thought I was an eight because, uh, Beth's mom, uh, is a self pressed six and I'm like, I, I am not like your mom. And so, but they're the most phobic. They they've yielded to this internal fear and anxiety that Their fear expresses itself in insecurity, worry, and self doubt. Their focus is on safety, security, and stability for themselves. They're cautious, prepared, practical. To feel safe, they may take on a surrogate family or form alliances with friends or people that they trust, This softens their fear of abandonment and being without The strength of the warm sixes are that they're reliable, hardworking, vigilant, warm, friendly. They're the, they're the best of the best of the sixes, right? But they can, uh, the anxiety can, uh, be, overwhelming to them and even to others, um, that can lean or blend over into suspiciousness. Uh, there's resistance to change and being able to hold change. And so you'll find them reverting back uh, sort of compulsive desires to find security and they're just plagued by self doubt. Um, where it's kind of like you. I know that as a counterphobic Six, I just want to tell them like, make a decision. You got to move. You got to, you got to, you got to move forward. You can't be waiting for everyone for you. That's the self The social Six. These are kind of the stereotypical Sixes. They're, they're the dutiful ones. Their focus is on belonging to a group and adhering to the social normsthe appropriate These are the sixes that can oftentimes be mistyped as a Type I. They want to be good, and they want to obey the rules. And they know all of the rules, even the rules the unspoken rules. They can be Black and white in their thinking, they can focus on, they can be very dualistic, I don't want to say bipolar, um, but it's bright or wrong, good and bad, uh, there's no gray. And they deal with their anxiety and fear by striving to be good and to do what's right. That's how they resolve their fears. They gain security by following the rules and the social norms of the group. And so whenever they enter into the group, they're trying to figure out what's the norm. What's the, how does this group operate? What are the unwritten rules and expectations? Their strengths are that they're responsible, dutiful, community oriented, which, you know, responsible, dutiful. We just talked about that with the self press, but realize that the, What in reference to they what they're referenced to This is in reference to the group versus their own personal security They're more community oriented and focused on what is best for the group Not necessarily it can come at the expense of themselves. The challenges are that they can be overly conformist They can be very fearful of authority because they they're so inclined to follow authority that they get They lose themselves sometimes with authority and they struggle to always looking outside of outside of themselves to solve their internal doubt. Um, well the next one, I, I don't know if we want to talk about them or not, um, because let's be honest with you, they're, it's a problem. Um, it, it's diagnosable.

Adam: 27:57

It's diagnosable. You still, you still mostly identify as one to one as your, your first go to.

Jeff: 28:05

a one I mean, I, it, I, yeah, I,

Adam: 28:10

I can see that.

Jeff: 28:10

see other instincts coming up. Um, I mean, I experience them in different ways. The social aspects of me, well, no, it's still one to one because I, um, Even whenever I identify what the social norms are, I still kind of push Okay. I said, kinda I push boundaries. I'm I'm not, I'm trying to soften it up thinking that now coming up on 50, that. I'm gonna I'm softer. I'm be honest with you. I'd rather be the provocative and so these one to ones the almost contrary, you know, sixes are known for their courage because they've overcome so much internal fear and self doubt. So the one to ones are known as strength and beauty. Um, they're the counter phobic of the sixes. And instead of caving into the fear, yielding to the fear, they actually press into it with strength and bravado, uh, both verbally and physically. It's, it's interesting though. I've heard Beth Say that of all the Enneagram types, it's not the eights that are the bullies. Um, it's the counterphobic sixes that are, uh, impressing their strength. Eights don't have the same need to impose their strength only when necessary versus a six a Counterphobic six will do it unnecessarily or they miss, uh, read the situation. Uh, they can mistype as an eight. That was very true in my own life for five years. And then I do remember the time when the therapist said, you're six and I was. Now, there were other words that I would use to describe how upset I was, but I didn't touch the Enneagram for a year. I was so upset by it because I didn't want to acknowledge how much anxiety I was actually experiencing. I'd much rather just plow my way through it. Um, their motto is this. The best defense is a good offense. You've probably even heard Adam say that in our other podcast. I remember him saying that, um, they exhibit boldness, bravery, and strength. But oftentimes what's underneath that is anxiety and And they still have the inner struggle with anxiety, self doubt, and worst case scenario thinking, but they deal with it, uh, differently. They move into Uh, their strengths are they're creative, courageous, loyal, and determined, but the challenges they can beat. Too aggressive and struggle with, uh, trust of other people. So they're much more distrustful and they're sort of provocative in how they communicate. They're a little passive aggressive in how they communicate, uh, that mistrust. Uh, Adam, what, what would you like to add to

Adam: 30:47

Yeah, I think just, I think I shared this a couple of episodes ago, but in my, in my own journey, my, my sort of sub subtype stack would be, I think these days, um, I really do. think I identify most with the self preservation. I don't, I don't think that those around me and I, again, I'm ha I'm having to, I'm having to walk through some shame just to say this, but I think it's true that those around me don't experience me as manifesting. a ton of anxiety. I think I still have a pretty strong one to one kind of counterphobic. I think one to one is the number two. I, it used to be more of a number one for me. I think in my early days, I was much more of a one to one six. I did not have a clue how to deal with, I didn't, I didn't even give myself permission to be afraid. So I wouldn't have admitted I was afraid. I wouldn't have said I was afraid. I was strong. That's what I was. Um, and so, you know, whether that was Uh, on a football field or, or, uh, doing something ridiculously risky and dangerous. I just wanted to be strong and I wanted to be, you know, bigger than the fear these days. I'm I have a much more, uh, I have a complicated but better relationship to my fear and I think I identify more with self preservation. I don't think People would say that I'm manifesting, uh, constantly phobic. I don't like appear to be anxious and sweaty and overly worried. But, but, uh, but, but I am, I am driven by a, uh, do I, you know, am I enough and do I have enough and do we have enough and are we going to be okay? Those are the, those are the main questions. at this stage in my life that sort of swim around in me and that, that instinct shows up a lot. And, and, and the social instinct is there too. Um, I, I definitely have, uh, I definitely, you know, care about the group. And, uh, but I'm, but I'm, I, I can, I can be the black sheep in a group in terms of like, I, I kind of want to break the group's rules or push against the rules a little bit. Um, and that's always been there.

Jeff: 32:54

knowing that I am a leader and a rule breaker. Do you find that there's Less or more inclination to break the rules of the group?

Adam: 33:08

like any group, wait, are you

Jeff: 33:10

No, like with the YEC team. Yeah. Like, so because there's another rule breaker. Do you feel like, Oh yeah, that, that role is taken. Don't need to step into it. Or do you find like, Oh no, I have permission. Cause this guy breaks the rules all the time.

Adam: 33:24

I don't know. The best way I know how to answer that. And this is me being totally honest with you is I don't really know. I just know that with, our team, I feel, I feel full permission to be myself. That's the best way I know how to answer that. So, um,

Jeff: 33:41

everybody wants to work for YEC. Come to work for YEC. You can be yourself.

Adam: 33:45

Yeah. So I feel like, you know, with, with our group, with our team, um, it very much my social instinct shows up in like, this is my tribe. I want to, you know, we, we call six as guardians. I very much feel that guardianship, that protective, like I want to do what's best for the team. I don't want to in any way, shape or form sabotage the people that I love the most. Um, and, And so I don't, I don't think there are any white sea rules that I, uh, that I break, but, but sometimes I've seen, I'll tell you where I see it show up is more like in the gosh, this is probably a whole other podcast episode, but within the rules of my family of origin and then the rules of the theological tribes and churches that I've been a part of. That's where I, that's where I, that's where

Jeff: 34:36

Now you're getting home. Yeah, you're

Adam: 34:37

where I, that's where I see it show up.

Jeff: 34:41

You know, I in regards to stacking and I've heard the vocabulary before I don't relate to the idea of instincts as stacking as much as

Adam: 34:53

Eb and flow.

Jeff: 34:54

I I think of it more almost like a Like a pie chart like these are just areas because there are there are certain You places where I do access it like they're um I grew up in a home where my parents weren't as engaged and so I'm, very observant socially because I i'm sort of having to learn how to parent myself. That's part of the insecurity. I carry as a six And so I found myself observing social cues or so that because I always felt behind on social And yet at the same time I have a lot of ambivalence and antagonism Like, are you going to accept me? And so I want to break those but I'm very attuned to them. Uh, I can get very focused on close relationships, particularly the ones that I trust. That's why I resonate with an eight. Cause a, circle of security, a circle of trust of a small group of people that I would really show my true self Um, and then there's still. I, feel like I'm always in a mindset of Uh, the shoe's gonna drop, the worst case scenario, uh, I could potentially screw something up. Uh, those kinds of things. So I, these are just domains of my heart or energies of my heart that I access at different situations. Um, and some, in some situations I am much more social or much more one to one or self prez than in others. Uh, it's similar like with wings. It's not either or, but the wings show up. In healthy and unhealthy ways, depending upon And so yeah, I don't know if that resonates own

Adam: 36:32

it resonates with me, I think stacking and I'm the one, I'm the one that's been using that language, but I do think that stacking and thinking about, I, I believe that thinking about the instincts in a sequential way, where they're ordered one number one number two number three is a little bit Western or a little bit It's a little bit. too. It's too linear. It's a little bit too left brain.

Jeff: 36:59

Yeah.

Adam: 36:59

I do think there's an ebb and flow I think Again, I've said, you know, we've been talking about in the last few episodes that your brain is designed and wired for connection and And I think that in different settings and different moments, different days, different seasons, different, uh, contexts, these instincts will show up. to help you survive with connection and protection. However, however, these instincts need to show up. And I think it, I think there is an ebb and flow and it is, it is contextual. And it may be true that you maybe notice one more than the other typically, but they, they, they'll, they'll show up for you when So

Jeff: 37:38

yeah, awesome. don't you take on type seven?

Adam: 37:42

let's do it. Let's talk about type seven, our type seven friends, um, the self preservation sevens, these are sometimes called the keepers of the castle. they're focused on. Ensuring physical and material wellbeing. Remember this is self preservation. So they're thinking about what are my needs? What do I need to survive? They're typically more in touch with their anxieties. Um, so they will strive to make alliances or look for exciting opportunities, or they'll turn to self indulgence in order to soothe and meet their needs. Man, they're, they're charming. They're fun. They're talkative. They're upbeat. They're great networkers. Self preservation. sevens are, are just fun. Um, people admire them and love to be around them. But some of the challenges can be that, you know, they can be overly self indulgent. They, they can struggle with moderate moderation. They can become impulsive, um, as they're seeking to, you know, Take care of themselves and take care of their needs and soothe, you know, again, in the head triad, the emotional struggle, the common struggles, anxiety. So, you know, they can be a little too self indulgent sometimes and be impulsive and battle moderation as they're seeking to soothe those anxieties. Um,

Jeff: 38:59

know, it's interesting how that lands on me, Adam. I, I'm not sure why this came up, but it, this is, this comes up for a lot for me as I think if I put my pastor hat back on,

Adam: 39:10

Hmm.

Jeff: 39:11

because you can think of the self prez instinct, the way it presents with an Enneagram type and moralize and actually shame it and put this under greed or selfishness versus an innate desire that we That somehow gets too. I don't know what what how I misdirected be a good term

Adam: 39:38

Yeah.

Jeff: 39:38

Where they're it's more out of survival or scarcity Um where they're trying to care for themselves, but then They just get hounded on like stop being so selfish stop being so

Adam: 39:51

Yeah.

Jeff: 39:52

and you're missing the the real core Longing and innate human desire there if it's just a misdirected desire or Inclination that God has given them And being acted on out of scarcity and survival Believing who God provide for

Adam: 40:14

That's right. And, and, you know, Jeff, there's a, there's a healthy, good, beautiful, true, right way to do self preservation. Self preservation in and of itself is not That instinct is not bad. That I would, I would argue that instinct is necessary. Um,

Jeff: 40:31

Absolutely.

Adam: 40:32

it's necessary in a fallen world. Like, yes, you need to lock your doors. Yes. You need to plan and prepare. Yes. You need to make sure, you know, I, um, I think it was Parker Palmer. Parker Palmer has that great line where he says, self care. And when you can substitute that with self preservation is not selfish. It is simply good stewardship of the one gift I have to offer.

Jeff: 40:57

Hmm.

Adam: 40:58

yeah, man, taking care of yourself and doing what is best for you. And what you need to do is not fundamentally selfish. Sometimes we use that line from Paul and Philippians, uh, about looking to the interests of others, but you know, it's fascinating. He actually says, look not only to but also to the interests of others. So he never says, don't look to your own interest. He just says. Hey, as you consider yourself, which you should, also consider others. Um, and so I think the self preservation instinct can get a bad rap, and uh, it's actually essential.

Jeff: 41:35

Cool.

Adam: 41:36

Um,

Jeff: 41:37

counter

Adam: 41:38

let's talk about the social countertype seven. This is the sacrificial seven. Um, they tend to be less self indulgent, more focused on fulfilling others needs before their own, and so that's their social instinct at As a way of surviving, they will kind of go against their gluttony. That's the core weakness of a Seven, is that gluttony. Um, that gobbling up experiences. Um, but they will, they'll kind of go against that and sacrifice themselves for the group. Um, they can mistype, they can be so focused on others needs that they can mistype as a or even as a type nine, they're, so optimistic. They have such a positive outlook on life and there's a certain peace and joy that just, they manifest. And so, um, their strengths are, they're very charismatic. They're optimistic. Okay. They are sacrificially loving. the challenges can be is that, you know, they can be superficial, they can be avoidant, too avoidant of their emotions. Um, they can struggle with And so this is some of, you know, you can see how that can cause problems in the group that they're trying, the groups that they're trying to serve. Um, lastly,

Jeff: 42:52

Or, or, I mean, I've noticed it even with, uh, like Beth's dad is a social seven and it's serving too many groups. Like he would at times expend himself so much joy serving everybody.

Adam: 43:05

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. And that's, that's where you get into the struggle with commitment is because now I'm overextended and I've said yes to too many things. And I'm also saying, I'm saying no. Even to taking care of myself. And that's where you get the superficial aspects. Cause it's like, okay, I'm, I'm spread way too thin. Um, and, uh, and, but it can be really hard for social sevens to say no. The discipline of saying no feels like they're doing something wrong. They feel almost a sense of shame for saying no, or fear. It's a fear of missing out, you know, or fear of letting others down. Um, so let's talk about one to one. This is, uh, the, the last subtype for the seven, some call this the idealistic seven. These are dreamers. They can really live in their imaginations. one to one sevens, if you want to know how to love a one to one seven, well, those one to one sevens in your life, listen to their stories and their dreams and their visions and their imaginations, just without trying to get into like, okay, now how are you going to do that? Or just listen to them. They, they, they get, they get almost.

Jeff: 44:12

the wow before the how.

Adam: 44:14

That's Oh, Affirm the

Jeff: 44:19

drop my mic. I'm on a mic stand, but, uh, I got that from someone else. Yeah. I, I remember a John Piper quote. He said, uh, I've never had an original thought in my life. And if I did, I doubt it like that's such a 60 thought. Um, like, yeah, that line would came from somebody else, but it, that's what came to mind for Honor the wow, before you get into the

Adam: 44:39

Yeah. And that's, that's so, that's such a good word for, for those who are in relationship with the one to one sevens, they, they are full of ideas. They have huge dreams and, and they, they, their, their imaginations are wild and beautiful and more than they get a kick out of executing these ideas. They just love to share them, talk about them that they get, they get just almost just as much, or, or. They get fulfillment out of just having these ideas and being able to share them. So, um, they often envision something bigger and more spectacular than what is common or realistic. So if you're married to a one to one, seven, that can you know, a struggle is like, spouse has these grand, these, these, um, visions of grandeur. sometimes it's like, Hey, let's get back on the ground talk about what's, what's actually realistic here. Um, but again, they're idealistic dreamers. This is just, this is who they are. They want to pursue and share their dreams within the context of intense one on one relationships. So that's that one to one desire. This is how they're trying to connect with you. Think about, think about their sharing of their ideas as a bid for connection. They're, they're want to connect with you. They want to relate deeply to you. And again, this is how they feel secure. This is a survival instinct. Um, their strengths are they're great visionaries. Very inspiring, lighthearted. They're explorers and adventurers. Challenges is that they can be a bit escapists. Um, they can be overly idealistic they can struggle to stay grounded. So I actually have a good friend, he's listening, who's a one to one seven and at different parts, uh, different times in our life, he has called me the string to his kite. Uh, he's the, he's the kite and he's flying around and I'm the, I'm the string, or at least I'm the one holding the string. That's like, okay, we also need some connection to the ground here, so,

Jeff: 46:42

Now, I don't know if we've ever talked about this before or if it's even a topic within the subtype conversation, but what subtype do you think your seven wing

Adam: 46:57

that is a fascinating Um,

Jeff: 47:02

with the, the social and one to

Adam: 47:05

yeah.

Jeff: 47:06

El, El McCordo wants to have fun with people. And I find myself doing the kind of like in my neighborhood. I've bought a cotton candy machine. I've bought a popcorn machine. I host movie nights for the kids. Like that sevenness. I, I collect bourbon, not because I drink a lot of bourbon,

Adam: 47:29

want to share it?

Jeff: 47:30

I know that other men do and I want to share it.

Adam: 47:32

to share it? Yeah. Yeah. You want to share it? I think, I think my seven wing is, is somewhere I've noticed more social and self preservation. I have to be careful. What, what did I tell you right before we hit record? I said, Oh, Nike knows exactly how to market me. They know how to, they, they know how to get me and they, they, they send me these emails and stuff about, you know, this,

Jeff: 47:55

Yeah.

Adam: 47:57

you know, Jordan one shoe is, uh, you know, 25 percent off with your membership code right now. And it's like, I think I have a little bit, I can be impulsive. My seven wing is in self indulgent. Um, it likes to spend. And then my, my core type is like, what are we doing here? Like we, we're supposed to be saving resources. My seven, my seven wing can be a

Jeff: 48:20

dude. I totally feel that Oh, yeah, that's one of the ways that I don't like El Mocordo because he, man, he loves Amazon.

Adam: 48:28

Oh Love Amazon. Yeah.

Jeff: 48:31

And even my five, because I, I mean, I have a propensity to buy books. We've talked a lot about that, but, um, that is interesting Subtypes of our wings. Take that.

Adam: 48:43

Yeah.

Jeff: 48:44

Blew your

Adam: 48:45

that's a whole other series. Um, well, Jeff, I think, I think that rounds out our, our head type, which brings us to the end of this episode. Do you have any closing thoughts for our audience?

Jeff: 49:00

Now, hey, we're so thankful that you've decided to stay around with us. And, uh, I'd anticipated this particular episode would go longer because we're talking about sixes. Um, but, uh, we do hope that you're benefiting from all of this, uh, that we're sharing. Um, we're, we're so grateful that you're staying around and hopefully find benefit for your own life as you think about yourself and also, uh, these other types in your, you have relationship with, uh, in our next episode, we're going to round it out with the eight nines and ones. Um, And so the gut triad, uh, we're going to talk about all the various subtypes there. So, uh, Hey, if you haven't subscribed, be sure to hit subscribe on YouTube or wherever you listen to these podcasts, be sure to leave a comment, let us know. Uh, Adam, I'd be taking a look at those and maybe even commenting on those whenever we have a moment. Um, and then also don't forget, share this with some friends. Um, you know, if you're reminded of people, you hear Adam and I, as we talk through different people, Come to mind as we're thinking through these be sure to pass it along to them. And hopefully it can be of help to them and, uh, compassionate expression and saying, Hey, I see you and I know you, and I love having you in Um, but, uh, yeah, grateful for you to stay around, uh, Adam, you want to close this out?

Adam: 50:14

Yes. Join us for our next episode. Jeff and I will be talking about the instinctual subtypes within the gut triad. So types eight, nine, and one. So if you're an eight, nine, or one, or you're in relationship in any way, shape, or form to an eight, nine, or one, you want to tune episodes or this next episode. And, uh, we hope you remember always that the Enneagram reveals your need not your need to work harder. It is the gospel that transforms us. Thank you guys for tuning in and we'll see you in the next episode