Jeff: 0:00

Hey friends, today we're going to be talking about anxiety and specifically, what do you think is the most anxious type on the Enneagram? You know, we have so many stereotypes that we lean towards when we think about the term of anxiety and all the stereotypes and that we put on each individual type. Well, we're about to blow your mind because we're going to talk about anxiety, but how it shows up for each Enneagram type. And before we get there, in order for us to have a better understanding, a more helpful. Healthy relationship with anxiety, we're going to have to define it. And so we're thankful that you joined us today. We're going to dive in deep on what is anxiety in this episode. Then we're going to apply it to each Enneagram type. And then we're going to come back with a third episode in the series to talk through how each type can handle anxiety. Their own anxiety shows up. Well, welcome to your Enneagram coach, the podcast. I am Jeff McCord, CEO and co founder where we've helped millions of people around the globe to help discover, explore, and become the person that they've always longed to be. I'm here today with our director of coaching, Adam Breckenridge, Adam. Always great to be with you

Adam: 1:08

Always great to be with you. How about two sixes

Jeff: 1:12

Two.

Adam: 1:13

talking about anxiety?

Jeff: 1:15

That's what, see, now you say that, but that's one of the stereotypes is that sixes might be the most anxious on the Enneagram and I, I would beg to differ. Um, but I will say too, that, um, is kind of ironic, but why shouldn't we though, like, cause if, if we were the most anxious, then that means that we've handled the most anxiety.

Adam: 1:42

That's right. That's right. We're the experts on anxiety

Jeff: 1:47

Welcome to the hood.

Adam: 1:52

That is that is the name of our spinoff podcast

Jeff: 1:57

Welcome to the, uh, sometimes when, you know, Beth's a nine and so she has a line that comes down to six. Yeah. And, and I did say that correctly. It comes down to six. Like she's got to, um, when she's not doing well, she gets pretty anxious and spun out. But, uh, I, I sometimes joke with her like, Hey, Beth, you can't let, you can't handle living down need to get out of my neighborhood.

Adam: 2:20

Let me let me worry

Jeff: 2:24

Oh, man. Think about that. When you think about Enneagram couple types, uh, which one of you is carrying the anxiety of the Oh, we've got a lot of thoughts about anxiety, everybody. A lot of Well, like I said before, we've got, we're, for these next few episodes, we're going to be talking about what is anxiety. We're going to show you how it shows up for each Enneagram type, uh, and then we're going to talk about what are ways to handle What are ways to have a better relationship to the anxiety that we may or may not have named So Adam's been doing some excellent research on this topic and it I have found him to be tremendously helpful in being able to been going on in my own life. And so Adam, why don't you start us off and just give us great definition. I'm going to say a clear definition. You know, anxieties, sometimes it can be very expansive and ambiguous at other times, clarity once you give us a definition of kind of a working definition for what anxiety is and how it shows

Adam: 3:29

yeah, yeah. I'll my best, shot. So I think we'll start by naming that anxiety is not just a six thing it, you know, we joke about that, but anxiety really is a common human common human emotional experience and it can manifest in a lot of different ways. It can manifest mentally. Constant worry, worst case scenario, thinking, restless thoughts. Uh, it shows up in, uh, physiological responses, like in our emotions, tension in the body, increased blood pressure, racing heart, sweating, to relax, brain fog, muscle tension, digestive issues, bad sleep. Um, so it's, it's this common emotional experience that shows up in different all, we're all familiar

Jeff: 4:16

Well, Adam, you know, whenever I hear you talk about that, what, what I think of whenever I hear those my sexiness shows up more strongly when I am And I wonder if that's true for each Enneagram type is that the, expression of our type, our way of relating to the world. When it's the strongest is when anxiety is Anxiety is when something's not right in the world. And I have a pattern, both physiologically and psychologically, as to how I default to try to address what's wrong in the world.

Adam: 5:03

Mm hmm.

Jeff: 5:05

And it, it shows up differently for all of just because you move towards trying to be stronger, um, less anxious, less connected with the world, maybe more independent. That doesn't mean that you're not any less anxious.

Adam: 5:20

That's right.

Jeff: 5:20

be the style that respond to whenever you are

Adam: 5:26

That's right. That's right. And

Jeff: 5:28

thought I was an eight for five years. Let's just get real here. I thought I was an eight for five until I sat down with a therapist who was, he introduced one of my mentors to the Enneagram program. So he'd been saved for a while, this is back in 2001, and we sat down with him, this was now in 2011, and he said, Jeff, looking at your story, I think you're a six, not an I was livid. I did not touch the Enneagram for a year after that. I was so upset

Adam: 6:02

You didn't want to hear that.

Jeff: 6:03

want to admit

Adam: 6:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, as we're going to see,

Jeff: 6:12

you've studied anxiety a lot. No. What, what was it that led you to want to study anxiety?

Adam: 6:22

well, I too had a therapist, um, encourage me and lead me on a journey of building a relationship with my own anxiety. Uh, my, my own anxiety was not just, not just something that needed to be managed. And sometimes, you know, especially if it's chronic anxiety or an anxiety disorder. that really overwhelms and interferes with our ability to function in everyday life. Like there's, there's certain, you know, management strategies that can be life saving and life changing, but you also have to build a relationship with the anxiety. So for me, it was, uh, uh, a therapist guiding me on a journey of connecting with my own anxiety. And then Uh, started doing that in the relational dance with my wife of like helping her build a relationship with the part of me that's anxious, but then help myself trying to build a relationship with the part of her that's anxious. And the more, you know, uh, I kind of traveled down that path, the more I realized that every type is carrying anxiety and it just shows up differently. And we're going to get into this and, you know, The next couple of episodes, but you know, for my type one friends, there's a certain anxiety driving the perfectionism. And there's, it's a, it's an interesting dance. It's an interesting kind of vicious cycle of there's an anxiety pushing perfectionism. I mean, we might call the, we call them core fears, Jeff, anxiety is just fear it's just the word, take that fear to its, to its, you know, impaired place. And it's a core anxiety that every type has. And so the more imperfection, the one encounters, the more anxious they become and the more they double down Trying to perfect and the, you know, the, the, that, that's the, that gets into a cycle and you could walk the wheel and do that with every type, you know, that there's an anxiety, even as you were talking about with the eight, the bravado and the strength of an eight. Yes, it's a gift and it can also be an attempt at getting bigger than the anxiety that's Um, it's a strategy. So it, but it was to answer your question. It was my own exploration of my anxiety that kind of thrust me into this doing this kind of work for the last, Probably Um, but man, we're seeing this really play out in culture, you know, and everybody's writing about this. Everybody's talking about this. You know, what really exaggerated. This is covid covid really through, you know, gas on the proverbial fire of anxiety, both situational anxiety. You know, which is around work and bills and parenting and conflict in life and relationships and chronic anxiety. And, um, we're, we're currently living in a moment that's marked by tons of, you know, this is election moment, you know, as we're recording this. And so there's financial worries, there's political unrest, there's economic uncertainty. Everybody's kind of feeling the tension. Social media exaggerates this. And so we're, we're seeing the impact that this has on anxiety. And I think it might've been you that sent me an article that said, you know, there are over 40 million adults in the are now diagnosed with anxiety disorders. over the adult population. And then there was another survey. This is the one you sent me that discovered that 41 percent of Of America, 41 percent of American adults are currently peak stress uh, in, in their life. And so think everybody's kind of stressed out right now. Jeff, would you, would you agree?

Jeff: 10:01

amped. Everybody And, you know, I, I would say this, I, I experience this on multiple levels. But I, I certainly experience it, um, because I, in my relationships with people, whether professionally because they, I notice that people are quickly, will say stuff like, I'm out, or they just stop engaging. It, it could be a, a simple request that maybe a friend would ordinarily immediately respond to, but then you start to notice day or a full day to get text We experience this professionally whenever we send out emails to people. hear back from them. It, we're so overwhelmed. It's almost like we're, we're just starting to shut down and disassociate.

Adam: 10:54

that's

Jeff: 10:56

It's been interesting, like people buying books right now. People are buying fantasy And why? They're trying to get out. the And it's 100 percent understandable. How many of us ever grew up with a parent who helped us to organize our emotions and our bodies whenever we felt overwhelmed and anxious? Oftentimes we were, it was more like we were shamed by their responses. Oh, put, put yourself together, get yourself together or minimizing. This is not that big of a

Adam: 11:31

Not that big a deal. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing to worry about. Oh man, you can slap a Bible verse on it. Right. Um, be anxious about nothing. Don't be anxious about anything, Jeff. Don't be anxious about anything. I mean, what is there to worry about?

Jeff: 11:47

sure, sure. Tell us, tell us more about this. Uh, do not fear, which is the command. Do not

Adam: 11:54

You know what we call that by the way, and maybe we're but we call that spiritual pharmacology where it's, Oh, you're anxious. Take a couple of Bible verses and call me tomorrow. This will fix your problem. And of

Jeff: 12:05

Adam, why is it? No, I mean, we're, I know we're being provocative and if Beth were here, she'd probably say,

Adam: 12:10

She said, all right guys, that's enough.

Jeff: 12:13

why do you think it is that And that maybe that's not even how the Bible intended those

Adam: 12:19

Well, that's, that's the answer is that it's actually not because it's not a relational Um, the whole thing when the, when the scriptures say, do not be afraid is there's always a, there's always a, it's not just don't be afraid. Like it's a black and white moral command. If you're, if you're afraid, it's, it's a sin. It actually never

Jeff: 12:34

Get your stuff together.

Adam: 12:36

no. Yeah. It's do not, you don't have to be afraid because I'm here. It's, it's always, it's a, it's an invitation to relationship of bring your fear to me, the reason you don't have to be afraid is because I'm not going to abandon you. I'll be with And so it's not a, Hey, you're wrong. If you're afraid, it's, it's your fear is a window into the heart of God. And it's an invitation to be with God and connect with God and your fear. And that's what Jesus is doing when he's teaching on the hillside. He's like, you guys don't have to be anxious. Um, um, I'm with you and I love you and I'm for you. Um, but he's certainly not shaming us for anxiety. It's, it's this, it's a relational approach, but Hey, can I tell you this? And then, then we can shift gears. If we, if you want to shift gears, we can. The reason why we do that though, to, to ourselves and other people, the reason why we say, Oh, Hey, just don't be afraid. The Bible says, don't worry. The person that does that does that because they're anxious. They're having feelings your anxiety is actually making me So I need to shut you down. So here's a Bible verse that's going to shut you down, put you in your place, help you, you know, now it's, now it's on you and I don't have to carry it. So anytime we go into fix it it's because the person fixing is anxious, whether they realize it or not, and they're trying to out of their own And, uh, and so all that does Jeff is bring us back

Jeff: 14:06

everybody is. And it's profoundly isolating. I have found in my own life in light of the anxiety I'm projecting onto others, uh, I, and in companionship with the anxiety, I think others are feeling, I, I just politically, like our, I just feel like our neighborhood volatile, tension I, I don't feel safe or being able to express my own I don't know who I'm dealing

Adam: 14:43

That's right.

Jeff: 14:44

And, and I've developed this mindset, like I anyone to share what I'm really thinking or experiencing when things are happening I've got thoughts, I have fears, I have, yeah, reasons why I believe certain things, but to be able to actually share those out loud just seems like such a

Adam: 15:09

Yeah. Well, you know,

Jeff: 15:09

what's interesting, go

Adam: 15:10

go ahead. Well, I was actually about to ask you a question. Why don't you, finish that

Jeff: 15:16

Well, what's been interesting since, many of you may already know, but last October, I'm coming up on one year, I had a bypass multiple I think they replaced them all. and it, but since then I started walking, uh, they'd given me, uh, I don't know, a prescription, I guess, but I needed to look to be able to walk one mile day within one month after my surgery. And that just, that put goal orientation part of my heart, the athletic part of my heart into action. And so, but now I walk, uh, most days I walk about four And I will say, and I, that the reason why I have increased that to that Much walking, like I, I walked out of my first New Balance shoes, like I'd walked so much. The, the soles were coming off and there was aggregate on the sidewalks that I watched were literally tearing up the walked It's because I, I sense that my anxiety decreases. It has probably been the number one thing that I've ever done address my walk. And the reason why I'm up to four miles most days, it's because there's that much anxiety

Adam: 16:38

Uh huh. Yeah. Can you say more about that? That's what I was going to ask is since, since we're already talking about, you the anxiety that you're carrying and I'm happy to share as well, but I'm just curious as a six, how would you describe your relationship to anxiety, especially during Anxious times.

Jeff: 16:59

my most acute times. And I was just listening about this, last night, as a um, is before I go to And what this particular segment of the podcast was discussing was why do we these emotional responses that finally Now, for many of us, we've it, where we're going to in hopes that we'll just be able to Some people might choose alcohol, uh, some people might choose a little bit of food or going to help them to fall asleep, maybe medications, it's almost anxiety just shows up and says, you're, you can't get away And for me, it's just racing thoughts. I wake up at thinking about, I'm not even thinking reasonably. I was this morning, uh, I woke up, thinking about something that didn't even was trying to

Adam: 18:06

Oh

Jeff: 18:07

uh, cause I'm halfway dreaming and halfway awake trying to figure something out. I carry the anxiety in my body. It, I mean, it's right there in the pit of my stomach.

Adam: 18:17

Mm hmm.

Jeff: 18:18

It shows up in over and over and over the problem. and it, it's particularly burdensome. And what, what walking has done, like I, I literally have the image with each step I'm transferring the anxiety trying to let my body And even the rhythms are lines in the sidewalks. We live in a fairly new neighborhood and so the sidewalks are still put together and not cracking and stuff, but they're, you know, the little lines to prevent cracking the side. It's almost rhythmic, uh, as the line, the line, which is of the origin story EMDR, which is a therapeutic And those kinds of Things calm down for me and I notice on days that I don't uh, I just start the day amped and racing and trying to solve every rather than the How about you? How does it show

Adam: 19:29

Yeah. It's funny that you say, um, right before bed for me, it's often first thing in the Um, I, I think that's when I, when I mostly notice anxiety, I think I, you know, when you wake up, you're, you're, You, you know, you're kind of defenseless, you're not at your strongest, you're sort of, you're pretty vulnerable, you know, and, and there's a whole day in front of you and there's a big to do list on that, you know, for that day. And there's, there's things from the past days to do list that you didn't complete. And, um, immediately there's kids that need me and need something from me and everybody needs something from me. And, uh, I think that's, that's the moment, which is why. You know, what I've tried to do to counter not push away. Not, not push away my anxiety, but, uh, as we're going to talk about in a minute, welcome it and encounter it with kindness is I try to start my day with some silence and solitude, just some time alone to myself. Um, kind of like you're talking about going for a walk. I'm talking about sitting down and You know, not jumping, not even jumping straight into a book or scripture or do just cause that even that can be a distraction from my anxiety. I need to start my day. If I, if I'm at my best, I'm starting my alone for, you know, somewhere between five to 20 minutes just by myself alone now, you know, There's a difference between the ideal and the real, uh, in real life that doesn't happen every day. You know, a lot of times we wake up just, just in enough time to get everybody fed for breakfast and get out the door to get the kids to school. Then I got to get back and jump into my first Um, but you know, that's where I noticed it show up. I noticed it show up in parenting a lot. Um, I mean, you talk about. If anxiety has something to do with control, you're pretty out of these other human beings that you're responsible for. You can't keep them breathing. You can't make them, make wise choices. You can't, you

Jeff: 21:38

Adam, in my recovery meeting, we have a specific

Adam: 21:45

uh,

Jeff: 21:48

the typical serenity prayer is God grant me the accept the things that the courage to I can and our program, um, and the, the, It's much more It gets me every time I say it, but it's God grant me the serenity to accept courage and the wisdom to know that that one is

Adam: 22:19

Ooh,

Jeff: 22:21

See that, see that's where it lands right at the end, like the wisdom to know that one is me, like I'm the only one I Can't change anybody How much of our anxiety in that, that, between

Adam: 22:35

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Jeff: 22:39

you mentioned something earlier about reading scripture. You know, I, it makes me think, you know, the first thing in the morning, if you're getting up to do, if you're getting up to try and solve the problems of the day,

Adam: 22:56

that's a recipe for anxiety.

Jeff: 22:58

you're, you're literally activating your, nervous system in a way as to be more anxious. But what you were saying is that, and this is what I've experienced for myself, my walking is an act of kindness towards

Adam: 23:15

that's

Jeff: 23:16

It is attuning to myself, being in silence and solitude. So for me, I've stopped listening to on my walks because books rev my mind up and rev the dreams and, um, desires, aspirations.

Adam: 23:33

Oh yeah.

Jeff: 23:34

I love love reading,

Adam: 23:37

Oh yeah.

Jeff: 23:38

but it activates.

Adam: 23:39

Yeah. And then, you know what?

Jeff: 23:40

Dan Allender once, I said, what, what, what should you do if you don't have the money to go to a counselor? What should you do when you're on long, slow

Adam: 23:49

Yep.

Jeff: 23:51

Slow down and take care of it. Show up in loving kindness

Adam: 23:59

a, it's a game changer. If, if you try to match your anxiety with, resolutions. If you see your anxiety as, um, I mean your anxiety is not the problem. It's usually the solution. It's usually a part of you that's working really hard to try to fix something for you and help you with something. And we're going to, that's where, that's where we're going to land this conversation.

Jeff: 24:25

Right. Well, keep going with that, Adam, because this, you've heard us use the phrase a couple of times, having a relationship with And for most of us, we're, we're trying to kick it out and beat it with a stick and try to get it out of our house, like a, like a, a pest in our home.

Adam: 24:46

Yeah, yeah. How, how, and how's that working for you?

Jeff: 24:49

you can't.

Adam: 24:50

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's talk about that. I think, but you know, before we end this conversation, let's talk the role that anxiety is The last thing we want to do, and I hope to the listener you, really lean in The last thing we want to do is shame anyone's anxiety. The reality is anxiety is trying to Anxiety at its core is a survival mechanism designed to protect us. It's like the mind's way of alerting us to potential danger, perceived threats. It pushes us to take action to stay safe. In this sense, anxiety has good It's trying to keep, you know, keep us aware and prepared, whether that's helping us plan for future challenges or, uh, avoid risks, meet deadlines. It's a signal that something needs our attention and it often feels overwhelming. feels very uncomfortable, uh, but still its role is to ensure that we are vigilant. We are equipped to respond to situations that, that might compromise or hurt our wellbeing or the wellbeing of people we love. And so when properly understood, anxiety can be, let me say it this way. When properly understood and properly led related, related to. In a healthy way, anxiety can be a really helpful part of us that motivates us to, to make decisions that support our growth and safety. And you know, Jeff, you and I

Jeff: 26:22

this, Adam, the, you're hinting at but you didn't come out and to follow up with just a

Adam: 26:31

yeah, yeah.

Jeff: 26:33

Are you saying God made us a way as to

Adam: 26:41

Well, it's, it's certainly, uh, baked into the human experience. I mean, there's no way to navigate life in a world that's in a world that's unsafe. Um, and not feel anxious. And if, if properly understood, anxiety is not the thing that's wrong with you, that you need to fix or shame or, you know, get better in order for you to feel okay with yourself or for God or whoever to feel okay with you. Anxiety is not the thing about you that's broken that needs to be fixed. It's, it's the very thing about you that makes you human. And it's a, it's an invitation. To love, really. I mean, it's an invitation to experience God's mercy and grace and kindness The thing that keeps us from experiencing God's kindness to us in anxiety Is usually our lack of kindness toward ourselves closes the door, closes the door to his kindness. And, um, and so that's, that's the, thing is, can you see your anxiety through the eyes of love as a part of you that's trying to help you? If you, if you see it as a, a pest in your house that you need to push out the door or beat it with a stick, as you were saying earlier, that's, it's, it's only going to dig in its heels. It's only going to get more anxious and more out of control. Um,

Jeff: 28:03

earlier, I think recently personally both on the podcast and, uh, in but about the movie inside out

Adam: 28:16

oh yeah. So

Jeff: 28:17

because it's main, uh, what I want to conflict how a person anxiety.

Adam: 28:28

Mm

Jeff: 28:30

mean, you've, you've always done such an excellent job of explaining through, but why don't you tell us about, tell us about the role of anxiety in

Adam: 28:39

Yeah, so in Inside Out 2, Riley's now in middle school, you know, and she's, she's anxious. There's a, there's a, if you haven't seen the film, the supporting cast Riley's emotions, which are personified. And in the second film, as I mentioned, anxiety is introduced as the new emotion. That reflects her experience of moving into adolescence. And what you see in the movie is how anxiety steps in over and over to protect Riley by warning her of potential dangers and uncertainties. she's facing all kinds of new challenges like puberty and social pressures and going to a new school with new friends being, you know, academic expectations you know, all her raging hormones. And she's, she's going through all this change and anxiety steps in however, you know, as you and I both know, Jeff, while anxiety's intentions are to keep her safe, can also overwhelm there's a really powerful scene. You remember the scene late in the movie where anxiety's totally spun out? And running around the control board and Riley's mind. And I mean, literally spinning around and around and, uh, Riley's having a panic attack. You can, you can see what's going on inside of her where anxiety is spun out. And then you can see what's going on outside of she's having this panic attack. And

Jeff: 30:04

And it is interesting too, like all the, you know, it is a movie where these emotions but each of the other emotions have feelings about

Adam: 30:14

that's right. Yeah,

Jeff: 30:16

So it's not just Riley's experience, but it's the other parts of

Adam: 30:24

Mm hmm.

Jeff: 30:25

has this kind of global impact you know, I, my friends have described it as like people on an inner tube in the water, a relationship to one another in role. And if it's over functioning, it causes all kinds of panic

Adam: 30:44

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. And Joy, uh, the character, the, the emotion Joy inside Riley, uh, played by Amy Poehler, um, Anxiety played by Maya Hawke, they're the main two that are kind of at each other. You know, in the first film it was Joy and Sadness, and they learned at the end of the film, spoiler alert, that the only way For the, for Riley to flourish as if they are integrated and they befriend one another and they have to actually, they actually have to have each exist. You can't have one without the other. And in this film, it's joy and anxiety who are trying to, they're on their own. There's a lot of tension between them and they're, they're on this journey of, befriending each other. And what happens in that scene where Riley's totally spun out or anxiety is totally spun out, uh, joy moves toward anxiety. You, you know, you see it happening inside Riley's mind and joy feels compassion for And you learn that that's, that's the key. I mean, if you can look at the part of you that's anxious with compassion and what happens is joy guides anxiety to let Riley and then the panic stops. And when anxiety finally steps back, she looks at joy bereft and she says, this is a direct quote. I was just trying to and I'll be honest with you, Jeff. I mean, I get emotional now when I was in the theater, I lost it during that I lost it. I, I think I just felt, I felt so much myself of me anxiety that are, that are trying to protect me. But what you realize, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this you, realize in that moment all along anxiety was not the antagonist Anxiety was just, just trying to and

Jeff: 32:40

sorry, I might have looked a little distracted in that moment. But our family's coming over for dinner tonight. And one of my grand dogs just came up to say hi to me Came in, got a few she left.

Adam: 32:54

that's all you're good for. Just, just a few scratches.

Jeff: 32:59

her anxious heart

Adam: 33:02

Yep.

Jeff: 33:02

was ready to come see peppa and Yeah, no, but yeah, yeah, you are right and just trying to protect I mean but think about that think about the exact thing levels or story of your anxiety my anxiety was It's carrying the burden of having a mom who was ill. Um, and facing a world at times I didn't anxiety was the energy that moved me to try to figure things You know, they say for sixes, they, they don't describe themselves as smart or intelligence, but street smart. And, uh, there's a certain sense where I'm, I'm always observing the world, trying to absorb whatever I can, because I don't feel like I'm enough to Uh, there's what, what security do where can I find Um, And so our, our, that part of our heart that carries anxiety is, it's a gift that needs to be affirmed. And that was part of what was happening is anxiety had good plans at and other times was over functioning in life and actually get in the way and actually creating more harm for and more harm for us. Because when you sustain that much in high levels of anxiety for longer periods of time, the body doesn't thrive And so we Transcribed But, and that's one of the ways that the Enneagram actually becomes very helpful is that we don't have to talk about anxiety in generalized but we get to talk about it and how it shows up very specifically. And so in our next episode, we're actually going to walk through each of the nine types and talk about how each of the nine types, anxiety shows up in their and sort of like the trailhead of a hiking trail. It's going to be the path that when you experience it, your inclination is to want to indulge it. But it's actually a path to be curious about and to walk through rather than away It's like a, like that old children's book, going on a bear hunt,

Adam: 35:34

Oh yeah.

Jeff: 35:35

No, no grass, tall, wavy graph.

Adam: 35:38

Can't go around it.

Jeff: 35:39

go under

Adam: 35:40

Can't go over it.

Jeff: 35:41

got to go through it.

Adam: 35:43

Got to.

Jeff: 35:43

And your anxiety has something to teach you about the And, and, uh, it, it actually can lead you to profound intimacy with others. you start to embrace, and, and intimacy with God. When you start to embrace the role anxiety is playing in your life.

Adam: 36:04

That's right.

Jeff: 36:05

It's not something that you have to be afraid of. But the more that I attune and, uh, look towards my anxiety, the more that it feels seen, it feels and the better parts of the more grounded parts actually can provide the kind of guidance and protection And each day that I walk, that's what's happening. That anxious part of my heart is seeing, Oh, adult Jeff's going to take care of us At least for the morning walk. We'll see what happens

Adam: 36:47

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see where we are around lunch, but, but right

Jeff: 36:53

That's so true.

Adam: 36:54

yeah,

Jeff: 36:55

it's so

Adam: 36:56

Well, thanks Jeff for, for unpacking that for us. And I'm really excited about these next couple episodes. You know, that we're, we're going to talk about the role, as you said, anxiety is, playing and how it shows up for each Enneagram type. And then, uh, two episodes from now, we're going to talk about practices of self leadership. Where, when you see anxiety, you can not come at it with a broomstick or whatever weapon of choice, but you can actually have, uh, some, some healthy responses we call healthy self leadership and ways that you can navigate your anxiety when it shows up. So, yeah. Thank you for joining us for this discussion about anxiety and the Enneagram. Uh, if you found this helpful, be sure to like, and subscribe, and share this episode with a friend. And, you know, don't forget to ask us your questions. You can reach out to us in the comments, or email us at info at your Enneagram coach. com. And we'll hope, hope you'll join us for the next couple of episodes as we continue this conversation. Like I said, in our next episode, Jeff and I are going to talk about how each Enneagram type experiences anxiety, and we can't wait to see in that episode. Thanks for joining us. Have a great

Jeff: 38:05

Thanks, everybody.