Beth: 0:00

Well, hey everyone, this is your Enneagram Coach, the podcast.

Jeff: 0:02

We're all familiar with all the varied Uh, we're going to talk about feelings and emotions that we're all going through as it relates to going home. Sometimes we're excited, but we also anticipate there's going to be conflict or big issues to talk about. Uh, we may be experiencing dread, but it could be a great experience. Well, all of the emotions, we're going to help to clarify what's actually happening inside of you. So you can understand about what it means to go home. We want to dive a little deeper into those feelings and give you some tools to work through so that, um, not only can you connect with your own heart, but connect with your family and maybe even your spouse and your own children in a deeper way than maybe you have in the past. Yeah. Before we dive into our top Enneagram content for this particular episode, Bethy, I thought we'd talk a little bit about just our own experience of family What that's been like over the years, I, Beth and I've been married, uh, 26 years now. What was I like going home?

Beth: 1:04

Wow. Well, we didn't, you just threw that right on my lap. It's like, uh, and you ask a nine, I feel like a deer in the headlights. Okay. Let me think. Um, what were you like when you went home?

Jeff: 1:18

Or what were you surprised about, uh, in going home that. Relating to me about going home.

Beth: 1:24

Well, the one thing, um, that is always kind of forefront and paramount when going home to Dallas is everyone wants to see you.

Jeff: 1:40

I don't believe that's true, but I, Beth has observed over the years that my dad loves to throw these big gatherings whenever I come home. And it's true. Whenever I went to the University of Kansas, I My mom said, you're gonna marry a Kansas girl and never come home and she was right. I remember asking Beth like, hey, could we get married like in Oklahoma? And she's like, hell no. But, but that to say, I like, do you notice that I'm a different person whenever I'm at home?

Beth: 2:14

Um, I would say probably the one thing that I do observe when you get home is two things. Either you're like super fun and you're wanting to do all the fun things or you're super chill like Sit in the lazy boy and watch TV with the rest of the family and like, let's not do anything.

Jeff: 2:35

Yeah, well, I can remember early on, I very early on, we would spend time with best parents. I mean, we were still in college. We didn't have any money. So Um, we'd go into Kansas City and they would inevitably take us out to dinner or whatever and we'd spend time with them. But you know, there was, it was interesting being with Beth because whereas she was attuned to me, I found that whenever she was around her parents that she was very attuned to them and their emotions, feelings, and thoughts. And at times those kind of things kind of rubbed against each other. You know, one of the interesting things that I can remember about going home is that early on in marriage. I was comfortable with having an argument with you in front of your parents.

Beth: 3:18

And

Jeff: 3:22

I don't know exactly how I would imagine it went through your parents to your brother, but I remember your brother asking you like, is everything okay? Because Jeff and Beth fight so much.

Beth: 3:31

Well, yeah, because In my household, you don't fight. No one ever fights. Yeah. There

Jeff: 3:38

was never an argument whatsoever.

Beth: 3:40

So it was like, what is this? And of course being a nine, I was like, I didn't want that either, but you were much more authentic and real. And you know, that counterphobic six, like saying what needs to be said. Um, yeah, I've

Jeff: 3:52

been so provocative with your appropriate parents. Yes. Like, it's not healthy either. It's not good at all. But not only is that provocativeness a part of me, but how else in recent years, because we've talked about this frequently, how, what do I act like whenever I'm around your parents now?

Beth: 4:11

Quiet.

Jeff: 4:13

Very quiet.

Beth: 4:14

Very quiet. But very, um, I don't know if the word's disengaged.

Jeff: 4:21

I'm not disassociated. That may be the word that you're looking for. But I am certainly disengaged. Yeah, I

Beth: 4:26

guess that's right. You're not disassociated. You're just disengaged. You're disengaged. Yeah.

Jeff: 4:31

And why don't you tell everyone what, what's your interpretation of what I'm

Beth: 4:36

left alone. I'm the left alone to figure what everyone's going to do. What are we going to eat? You know, are we all just going to sit around? Are we actually going to do something? And usually that's hard because One, as a knight, I'm thinking through everyone's likes and preferences, which usually knocks out everyone else's likes and preferences. So it's like, well, I guess we won't do anything. Um, but then, you know, I think at times, you know, I just, I want to just kind of shut down because I can't think of a way to make everyone happy. Um, and I feel like I'm having to pull the weight because I know how to read my family. Whether for the good or the not good. Um, and you don't, and sometimes I'll say like, well, Hey, this is what's going on. Or this is what I'm observing. You're like, really? What are you sure? I'm like, yes, I know very well.

Jeff: 5:31

It's like, she's reading tea leaves. I mean, I have no idea what in the world she's talking about. And, and if I were honest, I would say some of it, I think is real. And some of it also is interpreted potentially don't want to commit it. make wrong assumptions. Um, but I mean, even like you can kind of hear in our conversation, like we're, we're talking honestly here about real examples of what it's like whenever we go home, even though we are well into our own mental health and into the Enneagram to be able to have vocabulary about this, but it still shows up. I know that for me and my experience in being with your family, now that we have, Uh, two kids, now that we have two kids, we've had them for a while now. they're like adults now. That's such a strange term. But it's funny. I'm going to own them now, okay? I've tried to get rid of them for years and now they're here. Oh my gosh. Um, but what I was going to say is, um, I would say around your family, because the kids were always, So excited about being with them. And so they bring a lot of energy to the room. You're reading parents and they're responding as well. And they're kind of a caretakers as well. And so they're responding to kids and they're responding to you. And this nine part of my heart, you know, the six moves to nine. And, um, I call that nine part of my heart, Phil. Um, but Phil just kind of comes online and I just try not to bring, um, Any energy whatsoever, because I know that you're attuning to all these different things around you, and I just want to lower my energy level because if in the past. When I have gotten, I call my seven wing El McGordo, but, uh, because he's fun, gregarious and just outgoing and adventuresome. But if he shows up, that makes you very uncomfortable because then not only are you uncomfortable, but you're thinking about your parents and whether or not it's making them uncomfortable. Is that fair to say?

Beth: 7:31

Yeah, I wouldn't say that I'm uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable if I think they're uncomfortable. Yeah. I'm used to your El McCordo for the most part. I mean, definitely. Sometimes he goes way off, you know, line way

Jeff: 7:45

off line, but

Beth: 7:47

for the most part, I think it's fun, but yeah, if it's like inappropriate or like, you know, way past their generational understanding, you know, it's like, Oh man, I've, I'm just thinking of all the ways I, I need to help everyone have a good time or not feel awkward or weird or. Outside, you know, they don't understand what's going on. So I'm just,

Jeff: 8:10

and then even applies to the kids. Like you're managing the kids to not, this was earlier on, not now. We're not walking in with our young 20 somethings. Like, here's what's going to be appropriate when you go to gimme and pop

Beth: 8:21

right, right. Or like we would all be in the van and they're in the back, like laughing, teasing, getting upset or whatever. And I'm like, guys, you're never like this, except for when my parents are in the car. Can you please stop, you know? And so, yeah, I'm. I, as a nine, um, and I think everyone's this way, but as a nine, I'm hyper aware of all the dynamics, very aware. And it's exhausting. Now, of course, over the years, I've had to learn what does it look like to continue to be aware? Because I think as a nine, that's just a superpower I have that can go awry, but how can I use that superpower and not overtake me? Um, and I'll be honest, it's still a challenge. It's still a challenge. You know, we're coming up here, uh, for Christmas and my parents will be here. And I'm really excited because, you know, I don't get to see them that much. They live in Kansas city. We're in Nashville and because of COVID, we just haven't seen them as much as we would have. So, I mean, I'm looking forward to it, but you know, there's, we're two totally different families actually now. We have three or four different families. Our kids are living their own lives. We have our life, and then my parents, you know, they live their own type of life. And so how to navigate that in a healthy way so that I don't succumb to everybody's wishes and whims and feel the responsibility in caretaking, um, I have, I'm proud of. Um, and so I think it's really important that we all have a great time and we don't fall into some of those old habitual patterns.

Jeff: 9:50

That's right. Well, we've talked a little bit about family of origin stuff, uh, throughout the urinogram coach platform. But, you know, here's the reality is that, you know, our, our type, plays a role in our family of origins. I mean, my sixness, your nineness, uh, there's a way in which the family related to that and there were ways that it manifests itself in our family of origin that maybe have changed since adulthood. And what's interesting now having older kids, uh, one of the things, um, even our daughter, when we, uh, were telling her that Gammy and Papa were coming in town, she, uh, said to Beth, like, Oh, I was really hoping that we'd be able to spend some time together. And plus, I know that you needed some rest. Well, she's commenting on You and who you become when you're around your parents, even your kids will start to pick up on some of these changes. Well, inevitably that will lead to conflict between us about your family. Uh, now it could potentially lead to conflict with it. Not that we're going to have conflict with our kids, but it could have or may have in the past.

Beth: 10:54

Especially if we're unaware of what's going on and we don't name it and talk it through for sure. Yeah, it can become, cause we all think that we're doing our family, me. Justice, you know, like we're seeing it through the lens of how we grew up and most of the time when you go home, you revert back to a lot of old patterns, or at least the family wants you to, you know, they're used to you being a certain way. And if you've grown, they really don't understand those new dynamics. And, um, so we have to be also ready for that. Like that, if we've grown in healthy ways, um, Um, you know, to recognize that there'll be the pull and the tension to revert back to some old, um, negative patterns or unhealthy patterns. Um, but also the desire to stay healthy, but then also the family's desire to pull you in. Um, and, and to have clear communication of what that looks like, whether it's to the whole family or even maybe it's a spouse or a sibling that understands your growth and um, desires.

Jeff: 11:50

So here's the good news about what we're going to be spending the rest of our time talking about is that we're going to get into the bedrock really some of the main wiring of each of our Enneagram types here so much of the conflict and conversations preparing for being with your family is all behavior and emotion management. You're just trying to survive and get through it, but you've never thought about where some of these. It's all this energy starts to happen in your body and in your heart that manifests itself in your behaviors, your fears, your emotions, all these different things. And what that's called is your interpreted childhood message. And it affects. Everything about how we relate

Beth: 12:39

Yeah, well, and let me just. Back up for just a second because the interpretive child message is going to pop up because of the foundational understanding of your core motivations. Now, if you've listened to me, you've heard me talk about core motivations all the time because it's essential to understand your core motivations. your core fear, desire, weakness, and longing. And if you don't know what those are, please go to urineandgrahamcoach. com forward slash core motivations and download a free PDF. One, you want to look at your core motivations and really understand what is the driving force behind why you think, feel, and behave in particular ways. But then it also will give you insight into the people in your family and why they do what they do. So the interpretive message is Basically, a part of the Enneagram, so there's lots of different things that we could talk about the Enneagram. This is one part, and this is a painful message that you were either told directly or sensed indirectly when you were growing up. So, please note that there's not always a particular event or something that happened that someone directly said this to you. That may have happened, but a lot of times it's you know, You've just picked this up somewhere, somehow an event happened and you interpreted what was going on or said around you in a very particular way. So I'll give you an example for me as a type nine, my interpreted childhood message is it's not okay to assert yourself or make too much of yourself. So the story that I relate to that one, um, goes all the way back to. 1980.

Jeff: 14:15

The drama and intrigue. Such an introduction to a story.

Beth: 14:22

So 1980, I was five years old. So now you guys can like do all the math. Um, But yeah, so as far as old my dad was an allergist and so back in the the day Pharmaceutical reps would come to his office and not just give Drug samples, you know medicine to give to patients but back then they would give you trinkets and toys and pens So this one

Jeff: 14:50

I do remember going to your home and getting Zyrtec pens because they were like really cool looking pens and I would use them in college. Yeah,

Beth: 14:58

that's true. And they worked good And they were free. They were free and we were poor But yeah, so my dad from the pharmaceutical, you know company gave him these little address books They were blue and I mean, I was actually searching on Google the other day to see if I couldn't find them Oh sure, and I couldn't but anyway, they were blue and they fit in your shirt pocket. So they were pretty small Yeah, real thin and

Jeff: 15:23

the original iPhone.

Beth: 15:25

Yeah, exactly My dad still uses that but um On the side, I think it said like 1980 and like this real 80s font. And then I think somewhere it had like the the drug's name. But anyway, so real small, real thin, just paper. No one really wants this, let's just be honest. But I was five years old and I thought, okay. I have 12 of these. What am I going to do with them? And then I had this brilliant idea that I was going to go from house to house in the neighborhood and sell them for 5 cents. Because, of course, who doesn't want an address book, right? Especially this fancy one. For five cents as I have this brilliant idea, so I go to my neighbors across the street and I'm sure they, they gave me five cents and they kind of giggled and you know, I went to the next house and I'm thinking, and I did this like three times and I'm thinking, I am killing it. Like look at me.

Jeff: 16:18

I mean, I, I can't, if Nate or Libby were to walk around selling something door to door at five years old, like that, even just that in itself is kind of crazy. But the fact that you're this entrepreneurial heart that would take decades before it really shown here you are living your best life selling these, can you imagine the, how many pieces of gum you could get,

Beth: 16:43

especially back then. So I did that like three times. And then my mom. Open the door and she saw me and I think she could kind of tell what I was doing. And she called me home and I came home and, you know, of course I'm thinking, yeah, I'm killing it.

Jeff: 16:57

You know, I'm going to show her how awesome I've been.

Beth: 17:00

And. My mom was very kind, but she just said in her very six responsible appropriate Viewpoint of life is Beth. We do not do that. That is inappropriate. You need to go back and Give the money back to our neighbors. We don't sell things like that to our neighbors

Jeff: 17:18

See as a counterphobic six, I would have affirmed it like that is amazing Like you just you overcome so much fear and just went out there and did it Well,

Beth: 17:25

that's why I said like my mom my phobic mom's Heart at the time, you know is probably moving into that three space where she's thinking what are the neighbors gonna think? You know this girl going around selling really cheap address books that nobody wants Well,

Jeff: 17:42

the calendars are address books. No, they're address books address. Okay,

Beth: 17:46

and You know, and so I'm sure she felt a little bit of embarrassment. Plus, you know, you don't really go around selling stuff in the neighborhood, unless it's like for fundraisers. I mean, this is

Jeff: 17:57

really good, because what emotions were, do you think you were feeling at the time? Maybe you remember, maybe you don't.

Beth: 18:03

When she said that? Oh, total shame.

Jeff: 18:05

Total shame.

Beth: 18:06

Like I just thought, how did I put myself out there and do something that brought possible shame or upset my mom or upset my family or did something wrong? Like,

Jeff: 18:22

I mean, even at five years old, like you have a sense that the family has an image that you are partly responsible for maintaining.

Beth: 18:30

Yeah. And like I said, my mom, Isn't a person who heaps on shame or gets really upset like she was just telling me Her viewpoint coaching

Jeff: 18:41

you as a sixth parent on how to be a six.

Beth: 18:43

Yeah, this is inappropriate you know, this is not what we do and So, you know, from the interpretive childhood message, the nine is it's not okay to assert yourself or think much of yourself it. That's all I heard, even though she didn't say it, she probably never meant it to land on my heart that way. That is how, that is the record player that plays in the type nines mind. So that is how I perceived it and that's how I took it into myself. And then I lived that out. So I really from that moment on was like, I can't assert myself. Unless I get the okay from people. I want to make sure everyone's okay. No one's upset. I'm not going to create any kind of conflict or any waves and definitely don't make much of myself. Um, but again, it saddens me for lots of different reasons. But one thing that saddens me is. Like, that's not what my mom was trying to instill in me. Like, that's not what the whole message was, but that's how I interpret it. And that's why it's important, the word interpreted childhood message. Other people will hear in other books, wounded childhood message, but that comes across as if someone purposely wounded you. Now, sometimes it is, sometimes these messages are directly told to people and that is wounding. But like in my instance. It wasn't intended to wound, it was intended to teach, intended to help, um, but I hurt it, and it hurt me, and it, and it changed the trajectory of how I saw life. So I think that's, that's why I like to say, tell people my stories, because it's not always a very specific, direct point. So let me, um, jump into all nine types so people can hear theirs and really kind of just think through, like, was there a specific event that happened? Did someone directly say this to me in one form or another?

Jeff: 20:28

And, and one way to get to get to this place is one. Think of when you've experienced it recently. And then to start thinking about the emotions or the circumstances and see if that leads you to earlier and earlier memories to where, you know, maybe over time, weeks, months, it may take you a year or so, so don't think that this is an immediate thing, but to find sort of its origin story because even the same story at five years old, I, I have stories as well of when, uh, as a type six, I felt like I, I've gotten myself in a situation and. When the reality is, is that I was a little kid and I had no choice but to be in that situation. But I developed a way of interpreting life that I can't trust myself. So just, it takes time, but uncover that origin because then you start to realize as an adult, like, wait a minute, why did I bring that thought to the situation? Well,

Beth: 21:20

and we're still living it out today.

Jeff: 21:22

That's right. We are.

Beth: 21:23

So like for me, you know, even though I started your Enneagram coach, it took me decades to get there, to get over this message. And it's still a message I have to wrestle with every day showing up, you know, making, you know, my viewpoints, my presence heard, um, knowing that God has given me a message to, To deliver to people to help them. It's a daily battle to go, no, I can't assert myself. And yeah, I don't want to make much of myself. But I do want to make much of what God has done in and through me. For His glory. So it is a daily wrestling. This isn't like a one and done thing. So it is good to observe, like you said. How is it affecting you today? But then also look back and when were those moments that you saw it popping up when you're a child?

Jeff: 22:09

So as Beth is going through some of these, remember, this is really the, at the core of all of the relational and emotional energy that comes, uh, when you, when you're about to go be with family again, or perhaps even in your existing family, where it remind you of Feeling a body sensation, a conversation reminds you of something from the past. It's this message that's coming online and that creates all the core motivations to start getting activated and all the behaviors that come with it. So Bethany, why don't you go through all nine.

Beth: 22:42

Okay. Type ones, you either directly heard or thought you heard that is not okay to be wrong or to make mistakes. Type twos, you either heard or thought you heard that it is not okay to have your own needs. own needs. Type threes, you either heard or thought you heard that it is not okay to have your own feelings and identity. Type fours, you heard or thought you heard that it is not okay to be too much and not enough. Type fives, you heard or thought you heard that it is not okay to be too comfortable in the world. Type sixes, you heard or thought you heard that it is not okay to trust or depend on yourself. Type sevens, you heard or thought you heard that it is not okay to depend on others for anything. Type eights, you either heard or thought you heard that it is not okay to trust or to be vulnerable with anyone. And type nines, you either heard or thought you heard that it is not okay to assert yourself or think too much of yourself.

Jeff: 23:45

Man, so these are really profound things. Insights into each of the nine types and so realize that, um, it takes time to come to rest and to recognize, um, that this is a way a principle that we've Seeing the world through for our entire lives. And so whenever you are having a conversation with your spouse be sure to Adopt a posture of curiosity. You can't fix this And if you just storm through the front door and start trying to talk about it There's gonna be resistance because this is a very very tender part of our lives. Why because we have It is almost, it is like a lens that we have viewed life through our entire lives. And it's a lens that has limitations. Um, there's, there's no way that this principle is not true. Um, we have lived this out. It's shaped decisions that we've made all throughout our lives. And so to untangle from that is going to take time and a lot of patience. But to be able to know and begin to have conversation that it's really not about this Christmas, but it's about a message that's in your spouses or your friends or your heart that is leading you to these kinds of, this kind of frenetic energy as it relates to going home again.

Beth: 25:12

Yeah, and I think also we, we want to recognize that this message is going to pop up from time to time and definitely when you're not expecting it. And when it happens, the first thing I think a lot of the times our human flesh wants to do is to shame ourselves or condemn ourselves like, Oh, why can't I get rid of this? Or why is it here again? Or haven't I gotten better at this? That is not going to help.

Jeff: 25:35

It's, it's really not going to help. I mean, that was one of the phrases I walked away from my time with Dan Allender. Uh, was, you know, the way out of it is through it. Um, you know, the old, uh, going on a bear hunt book. You can't go under it. You can't go around it. Oh no, we got to go through it. And that's the reality of what it means to address this message. And so it may be worth your time to begin considering how are all of the thoughts that you have, the expectations that you have, the dynamics of what's happening in your emotional life. Why are those coming up related to this message? And to

Beth: 26:11

be gentle with yourself, you know. To recognize that this is a thought pattern that's been there for a very long time and to be gentle, be curious, um, and to bring the scripture, to bring the gospel to bear, to our heart. Um, you know, Jesus comes to us with love and care and tenderness. And so we can, Um, be in the midst of these, um, hard memories and it not overtake us.

Jeff: 26:38

I mean that man, you just saying that it brings to mind all of those scenes where Jesus is moving towards hurting women, right? And he doesn't do so harshly, but he gets to. These core beliefs about something that they believe about themselves or about God. And this is a very special moment that you can have to spend some time reflecting because Jesus has already answered what your heart is longing to hear. Well, another important aspect to be aware of when it comes to being around your family members, uh, is your type's blind spot path. Now, Beth's going to talk about this a little bit more and define it, but I found this, this is one of those things that as you, as I've seen you teach other people about, like it's a big aha moment for a lot of people. Very big. Cause it, and this is one of those weird aspects of the Enneagram that it feels like people have been recording you and like, how did you know that? Because that's, that's very secret, but what do you think it is that people are so surprised Well, I mean, it's a blind spot,

Beth: 27:55

so they, they don't really realize how much it's a part of their story and how much it affects their, their life. Um, yeah. So yeah, it,

Jeff: 28:05

so I understand this particularly as it relates to whether you're talking with a spouse or you're talking with a friend, it is a blind spot.

Beth: 28:14

It is a blind spot. And

Jeff: 28:15

so they, they don't see it. Like there, there is a way in which we, uh, I don't know if it's, it's Uh, that we're not cognitive of it, but we enter into a way of being and we don't even see that it's happening, right? But until someone else, like if you bring your boyfriend or girlfriend home or maybe you bring a friend over and they're like, what, who did, who were you whenever we walked into the room? Well, the blind spot path actually speaks to it. So Beth, once you give us the definition of what is the blind spot path.

Beth: 28:48

Yeah, so, um, I took a course, uh, with Russ Hudson from the Enneagram Institute, um, on the lines and arrows, and he actually called this the security point, but, um, for me, it got really confusing when I was training people because security point for some other teachers is the path of growth and because you're secure. That's not what this meant. So. We change the terminology when you look at the lines and arrows, we talk about stress path. So usually people are very familiar with the stress path, you know, like for a nine, when you're under stress, you can take on some of the average, the unhealthy aspects of type six and when you're growing. So the growth path is when you take on the healthy attributes of the type three. Most people that have looked into the Enneagram are very familiar with your stress path and your growth path. Well, there's two more paths. There's still the same lines, but there's two more paths. So with the path that you normally go in growth, you can actually go down that path, take on the characteristics of the type that you're connected to in less healthy ways around your family.

Jeff: 30:02

So for type 9, that means that you can become more like a type 3?

Beth: 30:08

Yes, in the average to unhealthy ways around the home. And And again, this is a blind spot path because you don't even realize that you're accessing this. And for the most part, it's like you don't even like, I would never do the less healthy type three things in normal public, like just around everyday people or even like coworkers because

Jeff: 30:32

I mean, even the way that you, um, show likenesses to three, it's, it's very private. Like you don't, you're not a very boastful person, but. Like there, there's, there's some very kind of, I'm proud of myself comments that she'll make with the family, with the family. Yes, yes,

Beth: 30:50

exactly. And so, um, and one thing I want to say is that this isn't so much that your blind spot path means you're bad. You're doing something wrong. Really, actually it's a, we need to go in the growth path, which is the healthy side of the same type, but that feels uncomfortable or weird sometimes. And this is kind of like, it's kind of coming out sideways. Um, and so we're trying to get our needs met, but in a way that's less healthy. And so we want to recognize that, because it can alert us and wake us up to, well, what is it that I'm needing? And why am I trying to get it? accomplished in this less healthy way? How can I change the trajectory in the path and do it from a more healthy perspective? So, because it's the same type. So type three, I go towards type three when I'm actually, um, growing, you know, just in everyday circumstances. Okay. So that's great. But at the family level, I need to also bring that, that level of health to the family. Into the family life, but sometimes I don't because it feels so hard. So

Jeff: 31:56

keep this in mind, too So I just as we went through the interpreted childhood message Realize that once that message has been activated then that gets all the other core motivations going And this is a way of addressing the anxiety of having those motivations in that message activated and so again We have to treat this with kindness. This isn't, Oh, you're doing that again. That's your blind spot path. That's using the Enneagram as a sword and, and nor do we want to use it, uh, to defend ourselves in our behavior, uh, our unhealthy behaviors. And so just remember to treat this with kindness, but Beth, and to illustrate this, why don't you tell us another story about how your blind spot path shows up.

Beth: 32:38

Oh, sure. Focus on me, huh? No. Okay. So, as a type 9, like I said, my blind spot path is moving to type 3, the admirable achiever. So, again, normally, um, I, like when I'm doing well and I'm healthy, I'm moving towards that high part of 3. But As a 9, I normally around the everyday person would never want to promote myself, stand out, maybe look arrogant, show off, and I'm going to even struggle to know that my presence matters, okay? So it's going to be hard for me to do this kind of self promotion, hey everyone look what I've done, all that kind of stuff. But deep down, I do desire to hear that I have worth and value, and that, and that's a good longing, right? That's a good desire in a sense to know that we have worth and value. But instead of asking for what is needed, the affirmation and encouragement that I'm longing for, and asking it directly and assertively, I will inadvertently tell my family what I did well or what I've accomplished that day. So it might come out kind of bragging or boastful, like Jeff said, But I desire to really hear them acknowledge what I've done and for them to affirm me. I unknowingly believe that this will help me to feel that I have worth. Since really deep down, I really affirm myself. And if I don't get the affirmation or the encouragement that I'm looking for in this inadvertent way, I will feel deflated and worthless. And when I'm on this blind spot path, moving to the less healthy attributes of three around my family, I cared greatly and deeply about what others are thinking, especially in my family life. I want to impress them and I want to make them happy, but I want you guys to realize that I will almost never do these characteristics in front of people outside the family. In fact, I really dislike it when I see others showing off, bragging about what they've done, um, looking for attention. Those attributes are actually something that I really don't like to see. And so you can see why this attribute in myself is a blind spot for me because it's something I actually feel, um, adverse to, and yet I actually do at home.

Jeff: 34:59

So not only is our interpreted childhood message impacting us when we're around family members, but We also can keep in mind that we have a blind spot path that's also coming out to bat. No wonder why we struggle so much whenever we're going to be around family for the holidays. So Beth, why don't you take us through each of the blind spots for each of the Enneagram types.

Beth: 35:22

All right, you guys buckled in ready for this? All right, so when you're around your family, maybe a best friend, maybe, but when you're around your family and you're, these are the people you let your hair down, you kind of act, you know, in ways that you normally don't, this is what's sometimes going to happen. So type ones, your blind spot path takes you to type seven and causes you to demand that others meet your needs. criticisms and desires. You avoid difficult emotions and will reframe negative situations to sound more positive. And you'll look for escape hatches or unhealthy indulgences to distract yourself from the pressures you face. Now remember, the blind spot path is the same direction you go in your growth path. And remember, you're doing these things because there's actually a healthier way of actually accomplishing what you, what you need, but this is coming out sideways. So you just, instead of shaming yourself and looking at yourself or what's happening, ask yourself curious questions of what is it that you really need and how can you obtain that in a healthier way? Type twos, your blind spot path takes you to type four and it causes you to feel rejected because others are not listening or accepted, accepting your help. You feel that others do not understand how difficult it is to be constantly others focused and you may daydream about becoming free of always needing to be helpful so that you can actually focus on your own self care. Type 3. Your blind spot path takes you to type 6 and causes you to express your frustration and dread when anxiety arises. You struggle with more self doubt and when blamed or accused of something you can react strongly. You are more suspicious of others and might test loyalties. Type 4. Your blind spot path takes you to type 1 and causes you to focus on flaws and become more judgmental toward yourself, others, and even the world. We're not being perfect or the ideal way that you see it. You may voice your frustrations and visibly display your disappointment in your body language. You may be impatient and controlling when others are incorrect and not being their authentic selves. And type fives. For you, your blind spot path takes you to type eight and causes you to assert your boundaries forcefully and confront anyone who displeases you. You may interrupt conversations and question others competence while asserting your knowledge with intellectual arrogance. You can become more secretive, fearing that others will betray you. Now, Jeff, here's yours, and we'll talk about yours here in a second. Type sixes. Your blind spot path takes you to type nine and causes you to deal with stress by shutting down. You can forget who you are because you've chosen peaceful loyalty over your own passions and desire. When you are overwhelmed, you may stubbornly resist your demands and express irritation when others interrupt or disturb your comfortable routines. How does that land on you?

Jeff: 38:33

You mean what I thought was healthiness as I related to your family? You're saying is my blind spot.

Beth: 38:38

Yeah, I definitely am.

Jeff: 38:40

Well, I intentionally go to my blind spot. So it's it's actually a clear spot.

Beth: 38:44

It's a clear spot. I know I'm doing it now. I

Jeff: 38:47

mean, I, I really, uh, and you know, And that's why I call this part of my heart, Phil, because he kind of fills up the longing because I, I want to be available and you know, it's not like I'm an, I'm an absent father in the situation. I'll help to take care of the kids or, or go wherever. I just don't know where my voice. is permitted in the midst of all the other voices in the situation. And I don't want to get in trouble with you or do something that's going to frustrate your parents. And so, you know, I just kind of calmly, quietly, just. Kind of go inward, shut everything down, uh, which is interesting because I, I think that's the part of my heart that I would use as a place kicker whenever I'd go out onto the field, um, and kick in those kind of intense moments and so it, it's actually been a part of who I am and it shows up in all kinds of various ways.

Beth: 39:42

Okay, let's, let's just take this as an example. So moving to your growth path. That is for a type six to be more at rest, to, to not have your mind so frenetic and thinking, you know, in multiple directions to actually be calm, to be still, to be present.

Jeff: 40:02

And, and it's so interesting you say it that way because there is a significant difference. When it's growth versus this blind spot path, right? Because there have been times that i've said to beth like i'm I am no longer a six. I am now a nine

Beth: 40:17

When you're in which category when i'm in melancholy? Yeah, exactly And i'm like you are not a nine. You're not a nine. Trust me. It's still

Jeff: 40:26

in there

Beth: 40:27

But yeah, you've had seasons like when covet hit. Um, there was a season where um, you couldn't find work Uh during those seasons when you were at home a lot there wasn't much to do You You really kind of sunk into that type nine space and you really felt like you were a type nine.

Jeff: 40:43

This, when you see me in that space. How do you feel?

Beth: 40:50

Well, there's part of me that's like, oh awesome. Let's chill. This is great And then there's another part of me that wants to shake you and wake you up

Jeff: 41:01

yes, so it's

Beth: 41:02

both right like there's I'm partly getting what Um, and then the other part of me is like, but no, no, no, no, I want Jeff, like I married Jeff, like, you know, so it's a both, and

Jeff: 41:17

yeah, there's a lot of ambivalence, um, with, with me.

Beth: 41:21

Yes. I think this is helpful for people to realize that. We do want you to move towards that nine healthy space. We definitely want you to bring less frenetic energy. We want you to be more calm and confident and assured and to go against the interpreted childhood message, which says, don't trust yourself. We want you to trust yourself and we want you to move forward in that with confidence and ease and, and. If, if that happens around the family, then actually a lot of things happen, like you usually come up with like great ideas and a go to attitude, um, so we don't just all sit around. Um, and so we want you to move towards that nine space, but in a healthy way. And I think that's what you ultimately want. It's just at times with our family, we don't know how to accomplish that. So we do these less healthy ways. All right, let's move on to type seven. Type seven. Your blind spot path takes you to type eight. Five, and causes you to be fiercely independent, building up boundaries to protect yourself from others, limiting your life. You may need to sort out your feelings by being alone and using your intellect. And you may grow tired of constantly feeling that you need to be the positive and fun one, that you just need some space to yourself. Type 8s, your blind spot path will take you to type 2 and causes you to assume that all your motives are pure with no hidden agendas. You may believe you have to earn love and affirmation from others by helping them and that your needs and emotions will threaten your relationships. Or, you may take offense when others don't help and care for you in the same way that you love and support them. Oh, I

Jeff: 43:04

am really excited about this one. I

Beth: 43:05

know. When I was writing it, I was like Oh man, this is terrible. Okay. So type nines, your blind spot path takes you to type three and notice

Jeff: 43:18

it's your blind. It's not my blind spot path.

Beth: 43:23

Your blind spot takes you to type three and causes you to suppress your emotions and identity so that you can focus on achieving when someone exposes your weakness and failures. You may feel shame and believe you are worthless.

Jeff: 43:37

That never. happens ever.

Beth: 43:40

You can people please and use flattery. That's

Jeff: 43:44

crazy.

Beth: 43:46

Can I read it? I can't even read it. He's chiming in.

Jeff: 43:49

I'm activated Beth.

Beth: 43:52

Okay. You can people please and use flattery and charm to maintain harmony and draw attention to your kindness and generosity. Oh no.

Jeff: 44:05

I, you know what, Bethany, you are so enlightened that there's no blindness with you. Oh my gosh. When I was,

Beth: 44:13

when I was putting this together and reading it, I'm like, oh no, guys, it's just so true. Like, I mean, like right now we're putting together a presentation, um, Um, for a retreat that we're doing and it's a lot of brand new material and I definitely get really frustrated. Like I want to suppress my emotions. I want to like push everything to a side and just stay dialed in and focused on getting content done. But then when I like show you, particularly you. Um, what I'm working on, if I don't get the affirmation I need, or if you have a negative comment or like, Hey, we need to do this instead. I will feel shame and believe that I'm like worthless to some degree, not like maybe completely, but like it really hits me hard. And this is so true. Like I, like I, I go to this type 3 space with you a lot. Well, what I'm hoping for all of you that are listening is that you will start to recognize that you have a blind spot path. And for everyone who's like, where can I read this material? Where is this stuff? Well, a lot of teachers don't talk about it because it's kind of Enneagram 2. 0. And so a lot of times we just talk about the stress path or the growth path because it's a little easier just to kind of go in those two directions than to dive deeper. So in our Enneagram collection, which is our nine Enneagram gift book journals from HarperCollins, um, in each of those, We talk about the blind spot path. Actually, we talk about all four paths. So there's one for each Enneagram type, and what's so cool about them is they're 21 day gift book journals. And every day is a topic, and they're the same topic for every type. So there's general content for each of the types, and then there's type specific. So Jeff and I, if we were to go through our journal together, We would read about let's say the blind spot path and it would talk about general stuff that's the same, but then it would get type specific and then we could share our aha moments like, Oh my gosh, this is so true. Kind of like we're doing here.

Jeff: 46:19

Just think about that as you think about driving or whether or not your family's coming to your house or you're going to be traveling over the holidays. Go grab the journals off of Amazon, get them shipped as quick as possible so that you can actually have a redemptive, uh, renewing conversation with your spouse, with your sibling, with your friends, as you go to experience family again. These are actually opportunities that we all have to connect with one another. They don't have to be moments where we get into an argument about the Family dynamics when, you know, when it, the conflict's not even between us, it's about something that's happening between our relationship with our family.

Beth: 46:59

Yeah. And these books just bring so much clarity and the 21, I mean, you could do it in 21 days. You can do it. And you know, 21 just readings, they're really, really short on each topic. And so, You can do it faster. You could do it slower. Um, but it's so powerful to do it with someone else. And it doesn't have to be someone of the same type, but use this to bring clarity and understanding. And it's from a gospel center perspective. So the whole point is to help you to see how God has created you to reflect him. And then how we understand. Stand when we get off course, how we get misaligned, but how to get back into alignment. So the Enneagram collection at Amazon, uh, books, a million, you name it, Barnes and Noble, uh, get yours. They're great stocking stuffers too.

Jeff: 47:45

Well, we hope this episode's helped you to understand yourself as well as your role and the dynamics around your family We hope that it's going to help you and the relationships that you have to extend more compassion Empathy and love for one another

Beth: 47:57

But as always, remember that the Enneagram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder. It's the gospel that transforms us. We'll see you on the next episode.